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MS has some very intelligent and very capable folks at its head, but the fact remains that it's done a very poor job at forecasting marketplaces, and getting to opportunities before its competitors do.

Hmm, let's see...

PC Software in 1975, platform agnostic GUI with multitasking in 1985, mainframe grade PC operating system in 1991, database engines for PC networks, PC based distributed mail clients and PC based mail servers, PC calendaring, office suites, visual dev systems, pc based videoconferencing, directory services, Internet aware applications, DHTML, AJAX, Live Mesh, server suites, ASP, .NET, consumer friendly security suites, ergonomic mice, ergonomic keyboards, general purpose device OS with common programming to existing tools, team-based integrated development suites, device independent video, resolution enhancing sub-pixel addressing, device independent sound systems, device independent CD-ROM

That's a tiny start on opportunities that Microsoft forecast, developed and moved to the mainstream as products. If you really can't think of any more, I'm sure a few dozen more wouldn't be hard to list.

MS FTW

I am looking at the Live Desktop at the moment, and I believe I am looking at the future of MS.

Right now, there are only half a dozen document folders but......lets consider the potential modules for Live Desktop

1) Office Live w/ Document Sync to all supported Devices

2) Live Messanger

3) Live Photo Gallery

4) Live Mail OR hosted exchange

5) Live Writer

6) Xbox Live

7) LiveMobile

Basically, a one stop shop for most of the applications you will ever need. With third party support, I would imagine that the sky is the limit and your data will be seemlessly replicated.

Additionally, with Mesh Groups, you will be easily able to share data with others..and I think the coolest thing will be the development of Live Broadcast, where friends and permitted groups can poke into your world, voice and video chat and collaborate on things in real time...all though a web-based virtual desktop.

Pretty cool if you ask me.

@j4m3s0n79

Absolutely. Live Mesh has the potential to change the way we think of both software and communication. It will be fascinating to see what the developer platform looks like when it's announced at the PDC.

Paul, btw, was one of the few industry pundits who got what Live Mesh was about when it was announced. Most of the others didn't understand that it was a platform and thought the file sync and remote desktop were the product rather than understanding they were samples apps.

I'm pretty sure Mike is displaying some built-in bias.  :)

Plus, the Mesh stuff is pure Ozzie.  It was conceived outside of MS and then brought into MS.

Did I say 'brought'?

I meant 'bought'.  :D

@Ocean

I listed factual items that demonstrated how your opinion was incorrect.

If you feel there is bias anytime someone presents facts that disagree with your opinions, perhaps you misunderstand the word.

As for the "Mesh stuff is pure Ozzie", do you think that Microsoft products come from people other than Microsoft employees like Ray Ozzie?

Or, perhaps, you only count employees who have never worked anywhere else?

Odd criteria either way.

Oh, and it was developed inside Microsoft by Ray Ozzie's team (and some related teams). Sorry to disappoint your bizarre conspiracy theory with actual facts.

FYI: I know some of the people who worked on it and they'd have gotten a lot more sleep for the last few years if your ridiculous statements were true.

@ Ocean:

"Conceived outside of MS and then b[r]ought into MS."

What a ridiculous slam? Do you think Google, Apple and ilk are not acquiring technology companies and assimilating acquired technology into their product line?

Or do you think those companies are making babies and raising them to go on and invent all this cool new technology?

Learn to appreciate good and merit wherever it is.

mikegalos@*msn*.com

Windows and Office are MS' bread and butter.

In the big stuff that puts money in other companies pockets, like  Internet Search, dgital media, etc MS is an also-ran.  They compete, and they say "we'll catch up"    "we'll catch up"   "we'll catch up"   "we'll catch up"   "we'll catch up"   "we'll catch up"   "we'll catch up"   "we'll catch up"   "we'll catch up"   "we'll catch up"   "we'll catch up"   "we'll catch up"   "we'll catch up"   "we'll catch up"   "we'll catch up"   "we'll catch up"   "we'll catch up"   "we'll catch up"   "we'll catch up"   "we'll catch up"   "we'll catch up"   "we'll catch up"   "we'll catch up"   "we'll catch up"   "we'll catch up"   "we'll catch up"   "we'll catch up"   "we'll catch up"   "we'll catch up"   "we'll catch up"   "we'll catch up"   "we'll catch up"   "we'll catch up"   "we'll catch up"  

but neither Google, nor Apple seems particularly worried about them actually doing it.

Yes, MS has some nice technologies tied their name.  But two products are their bread and butter.  It wants Internet search as a third, and it would have liked Plays for Sure to have been the fourth.

You know folks?

Give us some names...so we know you're not just 'bloviating'

@Ocean

In other words, you don't have any idea what you're talking about.

Fair enough. Run along and play now...

>> Learn to appreciate good and merit wherever it is.<<

Read the first 10 words or so of the first comment.

The cloud is the future, wit out a doubt.  The questions are a few....

1.  When?  Lots of people, Joe User, dont get it.  A good majority of the ones that do get it, have a fear of "do I trust my stuff up in the cloud, files etc.".  This is a HUGE change for people, and people dont like change, for the most part.

2.  How much how fast?  Each vendor MS, Google, Apple, Amazon, and lots of start-ups are trying find the right formula, files only, backup, music, email, contacts, calendar etc.  Some just do a few things some try multiple.

3.  Its going to have to really have some standards, and be open to be a hit.  People at this point are not going to be down with MS trying to move their lock-in monopoly they have now with Windows, IE, Office to the web.  Solutions should use, Jabber, ical (not apple ical, but ical) IMAP, common file types that work across the board.

Its going to be a long journey but some day, 10 years from now people will say "remember when all your data was trapped on your computer at home?"  like they say "remember when there were no cell phones".

MS has to bank on this, but they need to do it right.  In the past they could screw it up (internet is not important) and make a comeback.  Not now, screw it up in a big way and even a GIANT like MS will be left behind.

Thats your response?

I suspected you were blowing hot air.  

@Snakedoctor1

Your biased assumptions are showing.

Live Mesh is standards based. And since data lives both in the cloud and on the user's computers there isn't the "what do I do if the server fails or my access is down or the company fails"

I'd suggest doing some reading on what's out about it now. (And get ready for what comes in October at the PDC)

>>Its going to have to really have some standards, and be open to be a hit.  People at this point are not going to be down with MS trying to move their lock-in monopoly they have now with Windows, IE, Office to the web.<<

Bingo.

(Queue the outraged 'winCabal' claiming that MS is really, truly open.)

@Ocean

I've already presented more data in the first post than you have at all.

Get back to us when you have something to actually add.

It is open:

blogs.zdnet.com/carroll

@Raaj "Or do you think those companies are making babies and raising them to go on and invent all this cool new technology?"

That's hilarious! I've actually used that argument before. It's like they think Steve Jobs made some clones of himself to come up with new products.... no, no, they won't hire outside of the clone army (ever notice that all the people at Apple stores wear that same black shirt that Jobs wears?).

I suppose they think that MS should hire people with no talent, no qualifications and no history of doing a good job just so everything that comes out of Redmond was a "first time" product.

Mike anger management classes are in your future.  Pickup a copy of "who moved my cheese".  Man brother you got to have the last word.

You pick out one small part of my post and rip into me.  My post was not only about MS, it was about the cloud, people accepting it in general, many companies trying different approaches to it, and how it must be open.

Mesh is cool I have used it, from my Mac and PC, but honestly its a file syncing app right now, that works great for home users or users that are not blocked 8 hours a day 5 days a week by a corporate firewall.  Its nothing more at this point.  

Live in general is a mess right now, all kinds of offerings all over the place that have changed over the years.  From Joe users perspective its confusing compared to day Google.  MS needs to clean it up, simplify it big time.  Perfect example you go to hotmail.com right now and you see...

"Have an MSN Hotmail, MSN Messenger, or Passport account? It's your Windows Live ID.

Windows Live ID

Works with MSN, Office Live, and Microsoft Passport sites"

(not to mention you need IE for some of those offerings to get the "full experience")

Too much for Joe User.  Now go to Google.....simple single login for everything they offer.

There is no BIAS, whom ever does it right (usability, price, features) wins.  That very well could be MS.  Honestly I dont care whom it is.  Paul is right their focus has to be on this.

Been using the  Live calender beta lately and I'm sold. Stopped using Google calender completely. The live mesh is very good as well, they need a good mobile platform to complete the picture. Windows Mobile 6.1 is an improvement but still rather pathetic compared to the iPhone or Nokia's  mobile OS.

When if ever Enterprise will totally embrace cloud computing remains to be seen.  I'm skeptical  though, security being one reason the need for constant connectivity being another.

Ocean, I think you are a total troll that loves to instagate s**t here but that link was exactly what I was talking about when I said it had to use open standards.

If they tried to do mesh with .net only then it would force developers to use windows boxes to develop for mesh and lockout many devices like phones, that will never run a .net app.

I don't care what you think.

Obviously, the information provided refutes your 'thoughts' anyway.

"I dont care what you think" amen!  Troll on!!!!:)

Snake: I agree with everything you said...

One small thing is inaccurate: Google has multiple logins (which makes things confusing): you can have a Gmail account or  a Google account, and, also a YouTube account on the side...

But everything else is spot on, don't think I'm criticizing...

Ocean:

You mention that Office and Windows are both profitable, but the Serve products division is VERY profitable as well (Windows Server, SQL Server, Virtualization Server, Small Business Server, etc.)... and all these products are relatively new... so yeah, Microsoft can make new profitable products...

gglocher good point about Youtube I forget Google owns it, since its not been googled over on its site, plus I dont have an account there.

My Gmail account is the only account I have with Google, but that ID has allowed me access to email, calendar, contact, google docs, gtalk, and their new sharepoint like app google sites.  

Prior to my wife moving to Me on her PC I used my gmail account for that windows outlook sync app on her PC, to sync her outlook calendar with my google calendar, then I pulled it into iCal on my Mac via a ical subscription.

One more thing that's wrong, despite the names not being totally migrated over, Passport and LiveID accounts are the same thing.

It IS confusing and should have been fixed quickly as should the whole split between MSN and Live properties but the fact is that for all the Microsoft properties that care about User Authentication, LiveID/Passport is the single account mechanism that's needed.

@Ocean

So now you're declaring yourself an outraged part of the WinCabal?

Ocean post: (Queue the outraged 'winCabal' claiming that MS is really, truly open.)

Ocean post: It is open: blogs.zdnet.com/carroll

Oh, and for anyone that actually cares, there's a developer overview of Live Mesh and its standards based architecture at www.mesh.com/.../TourDeveloper.aspx

Mike I went to your link, on my Windows PC no less, using FF3, and I got a big fat silverlight box in the middle of the screen.  I clicked the X in the upper right corner of the box and I got a white page.  Standards....the MS way:)

I have avoided Silverlight so far just because I think flash is good enough and MS is always trying to push their version of something on me.

@Snakedoctor1

Well, then I guess you'll miss out on the video.

Hope ignorance is bliss.

(And Silverlight is considerably more than Flash but that's another discussion)

@Raaj "Or do you think those companies are making babies and raising them to go on and invent all this cool new technology?"

LMAO. I'm sure that never occurred to him.  Who knows maybe Ocean thinks Jobs has an  iBirthing chamber  where his perfect super brilliant 'original' 'remarkable' 'revolutionary' Apple employees are 'sprouted'.

Actually, Weedmonk, there are very few original ideas anymore...its all about the execution.

@Mikegalos -->  When I'm wrong, I admit it.  

As for those calling me a troll -->I don't understand the anger.  Read the posts and respond if you find it interesting and ignore it if you don't.

For the record, I don't use and have never owned a Mac.    Neither do I have a Wii.  It's always been Windows (I need specialized tools for my job) for me...and I don't do gaming.  As I've stated, I have lots of respect for MS and for their employees.

That doesn't preclude me from recognizing the good work done by their competitors.  

Seen the search marketshare for Google?  The Wii sales numbers?  The rise of the iTMS...and the iPod...and the iPhone?

On the flip side, Windows is ubiquitous.  There's very little software for the Mac or Linux that doesn't have something similar on Windows, but it doesn't work the other way around.  I love my Windows mobile device.  I have MS mice.  

Two sides to every coin.

@Ocean

But are you outraged with yourself and calling yourself names?

thats kinda trollish, there Mikey.

Ocey?

How is asking if you'll treat yourself as you treated others trollish?

I have posted this before, so if you're tired of reading it, then telll me to stop [and i might]. Your medical data has been accessable through the cloud for years, on a Mac or Windows PC, but the software is MS and Windows apps. We docs can view your labs, images/xray studies [please note that note all medical imaging use xrays, such as MRI, ultrasound , PET/nuclear medicine], billing and personal data, medication list, and many parts of the chart such as consults, History and Physical, Operation or Procedure notes.  When you logon,even on a Mac with Safari, 'Widows Server' pops up to connect you. MS is working on a way to make the info available to to patient and there are numerous apps available as well as on the horizon for a fully digital medical record. What's the big deal? Considerably less medical errors. Software to check accuracy of medication and allergy history comparison will reduce 50% of all medical errors. Kudos to MS for providing teams to work on this stuff. My imaging centers will give you film or a CD with your images and reports. as many hospitals do now also. The Electronic Medical Record is here, but needs some serious tweaks, such as the physician computer order entry. Instead of sloppy writing and no history, the doctor chooses medications from a list as well as dose and dispensing info. Now, the doctor will be forced to either choose a history, or type in a brief history [as per many state laws] as opposed to blowing it off and letting me guess what I'm looking for on your studies, or wasting time calling them or very busy nurses. This is the committee that I am on in our 3 hospital system.

I seem to get less respect, or at least they think that I am less knowledgeable because I look like a jock. But I surprise them with thoughts and solutions and comments, a few that I got here.

Because I've answered that question...and its not about technology.

Ocean,

Mike is clearly a cheerleader for Microsoft and probably makes his living off their stuff.  That's fine.  He's most certainly blinded by bias since he makes blanket condemnations of Apple and blanket praise and defense and apology for his team.  This is what happens to the discourse as Paul becomes more strident and partisan.  So do his forum community.  It is the supersite for windows.  Also, this post has nothing to do with Apple, so why not take the high road and let them have their fun?

Microsoft makes a mint off of Office for Mac.  Hopefully they intend to do the same with Mesh and not revert to the "moat" strategy they've used in the past.  I'm willing to take Ozzie at his word for now.  Things can change.  Just look at Apple.

@Ocean - "thats kinda trollish, there Mikey."

And this isn't:

"Did I say 'brought'?

I meant 'bought'.  :D"

or this:

"we'll catch up"   "we'll catch up"   "we'll catch up"   "we'll catch up"   "we'll catch up"   "we'll catch up"   "we'll catch up"   "we'll catch up"   "we'll catch up"   "we'll catch up"   "we'll catch up"   "we'll catch up"   "we'll catch up"   "we'll catch up"   "we'll catch up"   "we'll catch up"   "we'll catch up"   "we'll catch up"   "we'll catch up"   "we'll catch up"   "we'll catch up"   "we'll catch up"   "we'll catch up"   "we'll catch up"   "we'll catch up"   "we'll catch up"   "we'll catch up"   "we'll catch up"   "we'll catch up"   "we'll catch up"   "we'll catch up"   "we'll catch up"   "we'll catch up"  

or posting a series of game console "facts" in the comments section of Paul's post regarding Fiji?

You, sir...are the ultimate troll on this site right now.

--tayme

Name calling is very juvenile.

Lets just talk tech.  I always talk tech.  Others talk about people...

@ Johnpapola:

"Ocean,

Mike is clearly a cheerleader for Microsoft and probably makes his living off their stuff.  That's fine.  He's most certainly blinded by bias since he makes blanket condemnations of Apple and blanket praise and defense and apology for his team. ..."

You could have chosen a better ally in your rage against the [Windows] machine than the most irreverant and blatant troll on this site.

In regards to your accusation quoted above, you yourself have mentioned that your business unit makes extensive of Macs for design and that you use Macs to be more productive. Isn't that the same basis for bias towards Mac as you accuse Mike of being biased because he earns his living from MS products?

Selective application of standards. You continue to get emotional and accuse people giving technical arguments for MS products to be partisan hacks and "echo chamber."

A Chill pill fits the bill.

@Ocean - Yeah, right...see my post above...it is not tech talk. Especially the series of 33 "we'll catch up" that spewed from your keyboard. Go elsewhere to troll.

--tayme

Hey, while you were all fighting, I updated to Vista SP1! And my VPN and other stuff still works! It seemed a tad slower at first, and initial connections did not work, but then it all was back at the same speed. It seems I turned OFF auto update to prevent what happened with IE7. Although there is a warning right before IE7 installs on XP, I am quite certain that my two 6 yr old and 7 yr old [at that time,  now they are 7,7 and 8[ just clicked OK as they have been doing for sometime...on all 3 PC's!. So thanks all for the help.

Tayme,

Those were joking about technology.

Lets drop the selective outrage and lets find some tech to talk about.  Talking about the posters is boring.

DrWam

Congratulations. I suspect you've got a bunch of other updates in as well.

The short term slowdown may have to do with the caching optimizations and search indices being recomputed.

One thing seems a bit faster. It's viewing medical images from the hospital's PACS system, which is the main purpose of Vista for me. Also, the Active X app was problematic without the update from GE [their Centricity PACS].Before SP1 I had at least one error asking to install it [which does not happen at our office where GE Centricity patches were up to date]. Now, after SP 1, I don't even get a single error. Before playing with the settings, prior to SP1, we would get a continuous loop of installing attempts of the Active X control , only at the hospital's non-updated software. Perhaps this was fixed by SP1? I will encourage the other docs to update. Everyone turns off Auto update as EI 7 was not compatible, but got installed with Autoupdate. We probably all missed the popup asking if we wanted to install it, after it was automatically DL'ed. This is 'good stuff' for us.

Thanks,

Doc

BTW WAM is my initials. I'm Italian, not asian:) [But my best friend is asian]

@DrWAM (How's that?)

(Wam could have been short for almost anything, too, or a nickname)

SP1 probably didn't do the fix on its own as much as one of the fixes installed in it was one you needed to fix a bug. SP1 by itself really wasn't that much but included all the rolled up updates from the year including a lot of driver updates. If you have Windows Update (or Microsoft Update) turned off, you probably missed some that were not only important from a security point of view but that also improved performance.

I found it made several of my systems measurably faster but that was due to some improved drivers so, as they say, your mileage may vary.

I would definately not have a blind policy of having auto update turned off. It's fine to not auto-install but if so, somebody should be doing testing of the monthly updates, saying yes or now to them, and keeping on whoever supports the hardware and software to get the no answers fixed to they are a yes.

Blindly saying no without checking is the same as saying "I had a bad reaction to pediamycin so now I just throw out all the pills I get for anything". It'll drop the odds of a bad reaction but the cost is too high.

That's better and I agree. Last year, our IT head employee left to join a few others that contract businesses such as ours. Then the network guy left and joined them as he was unhappy that he also had to deal with hardware since there were very few network issues and one hardware man wasn't enough. We contract the new IT firm and convinced our remaining two people to work for the new IT firm. The result is that the cost increase was negligible [they now pay them benefits, 401K and stuff] and there is no longer gaps in coverage when an employee was on vacation. Also, more people in the firm provide even more knowledge. I really like the guys and hope that the make a boatload of money. They even provide more Mac support and our old IT head bought a MBP and uses VMware for Windows.

You are also correct about the nickname as many call me Wambo. During my Fellowship in Nuclear Medicine, the techs bought me a coffee mug and a shirt with WAMBO on it. I kinda sucks to look like Rambo as people naturally think that I dumb, so I started wearing glasses instead of contacts. Even a guy at college. destined to become a partner in my group, admitted to it and was shocked at my CV. Lately, I was voted best in Nuclear Medicine in South Jersey Mag in the top docs issue 2 yrs ago. Mom was thrilled.

Thanks again,

Doc

Oops, I forgot to mention. that although the business IT stuff has better control, our home PC support almost no longer exists. It doesn't require much anyway, but people remain timid about updates because of the IE7 stuff. Three docs were all call, only to find that IE7 was not compatible with the hospital's Centricity software since the hospital did not update it. They were forced to take a night of call at the hospital instead of from home. It's unfortunate that IE 7 worked at the updated offices, but they did not test it for home and the large IT dept at the hspital failed to warn anyone, until the 3 docs compared notes and started an email campaign. I am on the Physicians IT committee and another doc is actually on the IT dept committee, but it was made low priority. Then the IT head and second in command quit, making matters worse. That's when I brought it up at my committees monthly meeting to warn the staff that they may not be able to view their patients imaging studies from their office or home if they used IE 7 with XP or Vista. This got immediate attention but the rollout to the hundreds of computers did not work because of their iron firewall, which they refuse to turn off for even a second [HIPPA regs to the Nth degree]. The PACS adminstrator played with the add ons settings and found a solution. I actually found a better one, but SP1, and or other updates as you have stated looks like MS fixed GE's problem for us. Now I will pass the word that the best thing to do is update or upgrade to Vista SP1. These docs are only now learning the importance of backups and virus/malware protection, and two of us try to keep every one up and running, but 'Damn it Jim, I'm a doctor not a computer specialist'. I got many to switch to OneCare recently, and we have encourage to purchase newer, robust computers, but these people will buy fancy expensive cars, then a cheap PC. Go figure! Also, I converted useless taxable auto allowance to an expense account to buy our needed computer tools and software as well as CME, all with Pretax money. It's like a 40% discount. But you can lead a horse to water.....

Want some more speed Doc?

www.thehotfix.net/index.php

It is pretty nice to be honest.

Actually, the images load rapidly, faster than I can interpret them. This Vista is install is on my 3GHz quad Mac Pro Tower, and using VMware! I never authenticated the install on my home made PC. It has a 3.4 GHz P4 overclocked to 3.51 Ghz. I installed Vista on a second HD, but could no longer boot the XP Pro volume. It tried a few utililities to fix the MBR, but they did not help. Finally I just reinstalled XP. The P4 is a Prescott and runs very hot. I needed to buy a good heatsink [Silent Tower] as the stock from Intel would overheat in my desk cubby, yielding the BSD. The temp was over 63 celsius. Anyway, I installed Vista with Bootcamp and then used VMware. Funny thing is that Bootcamp will not show the 4GBs of RAM, although it's a 32 bit install which I guess tops at 3GB. Bootcamp [Vista] sees only 2GB on a Pro Tower, but will see the entire 3GB in a MBP on a 32 bit install. What's up with that?

Presshot!  Think green doc and dump that furnace.

www.newegg.com/.../Product.aspx

www.newegg.com/.../Product.aspx

www.newegg.com/.../Product.aspx

Common problem with Vista 32 bit.  Most of the time its a issue with the chipset not being able to address, but it happens with new chipsets as well.  Go 64bit Vista, and feel the pain of compatibility.

forums.microsoft.com/.../ShowPost.aspx

@RaaJ,

"You could have chosen a better ally in your rage against the [Windows] machine than the most irreverant and blatant troll on this site."

Hmmm.... I believe my post was the precise opposite of chosing Ocean as an "ally".  I believe I was actually distancing myself from his tactics and inviting him to do less trolling.  Not really sure how you came to the conclusion you made above.  Again, I don't think this topic has anything to do with Apple and as such, see little reason for platform warfare in this thread.

"In regards to your accusation quoted above, you yourself have mentioned that your business unit makes extensive of Macs for design and that you use Macs to be more productive. Isn't that the same basis for bias towards Mac as you accuse Mike of being biased because he earns his living from MS products?"

Yep.  That's dead on.  The difference is I'm not the one in attack mode against all things Microsoft the way Mike or Waethorn are about Apple.  My posture in these posts has always been one of defense against what I feel are wrong-headed attacks on my platform and fellow mac users by Paul and others here.  Mike and Waethorn on the other hand go on what amounts to "Apple Sucks" tirades pretty regularly.  I think Mike's new to the site, but he's already laced the Apple-related posts with amazingly blind platform zealotry and provably false mac-bashing.  This is the quality of thinking and debate that Paul's hyperbole and link-baiting is drawing in.  

A pity.

"Want some more speed Doc?

www.thehotfix.net/index.php"

I guess there's a reason why you're called "snakedoctor".  Do you sell your own brand of medicinal oils?

blogs.zdnet.com/hardware

"Most of the time its a issue with the chipset not being able to address, but it happens with new chipsets as well."

The 4GB cap has nothing to do with that actually - it is a limitation of 32-bit operating systems.  PAE is also not used by default for compatibility issues with a lot of software.  The 3.xGB limit is because PCI Express resources have to be addressed within the 4GB address space, so the top 7/8's (usually) of the top GB are used for that.

The 2GB limit that you see on Mac's is due to a restriction imposed by the Mac's EFI running in BIOS mode.  This is something that only affects certain Mac's but Apple hasn't released an EFI firmware update to address the issue (which it could - but won't bother to).

"Go 64bit Vista, and feel the pain of compatibility."

Pain?  What pain?  Funny you should point to a motherboard that carries the logo that identifies it as being fully Certified for Windows Vista.  Without even knowing it, you've pointed to a motherboard that is fully 100% compatible with 64-bit flavours of Windows Vista (and runs at least as well as the 32-bit version).  See, now that wasn't that hard now was it?  (BTW:  The DG33TL is the best G33 Intel board, but there are new G45 chipset boards now)

"I'm not the one in attack mode against all things Microsoft the way Mike or Waethorn are about Apple.  My posture in these posts has always been one of defense against what I feel are wrong-headed attacks on my platform and fellow mac users by Paul and others here."

....and to point out how much you hate Windows (on a pro-Windows site nonetheless)

You sir, are a self-confessed Windows hater and a troll.  Quit trying to pretend otherwise - we're all too smart for that.

@DRWAM

"I installed Vista on a second HD, but could no longer boot the XP Pro volume. It tried a few utililities to fix the MBR, but they did not help. Finally I just reinstalled XP."

It's not the MBR that you need to fix.  BCDEdit is the tool to use, and you use it from a Windows Vista Recovery Console (is included in the repair options when you boot off a Vista Setup DVD).

That's where I went wrong. I did not use it from the Windows Vista Recovery Console, and it tusly, I guess did not work. Then I deleted Vista, then just had to reinstall XP. It needed aclean install anyway as I added a lot of promising looking apps in an attempt to see if any would create a CD of PET/CT and image fusion with multiplanar reconstruction, because I did not want to spend $20,000 [yep, twenty thousand] on MIMvista, which has nothing to do with Windows Vista at all, just a coincidence, pardon the pun. [PET works by 511 keV  "coincidence"' gamma photons from an annihilation reaction of a 1.022 MeV positron with an electron. Which is an example of renormalization in quantum field theory— the field theory being necessary because the number of particles changes from one to two and back again] Here's a good link if your bored:

en.wikipedia.org/.../Positron_emission_tomography

@DOC

You can also sometimes use it from within Windows, but depending on the installation, it may lock those options while Windows is loaded.

If your OEM installed WinRE (the Windows Recovery Environment - which is a bootable version of the Recovery Console), it's likely on a hidden partition, but pushing F8 during boot (which usually brings up Safe Mode options and the like) will give you an option to launch WinRE.  It's the same as clicking "Repair your computer" from a Setup disc.

BTW:  BCDedit isn't exactly the easiest thing to use.  Windows XP had a program called BootCfg, but Vista's is much more complicated.  TechNet has full documentation on BCDedit though.

Yeah Wae...I pointed out that mobo because I knew it would run 64bit fine.  There was a cheaper Intel board based on the 945chip set on newegg, but it cant fully address 4gig.

Pain for 64bit.  Not admitting that some applications did not work with Vista 64bit is crazy.  Vista 64bit also requires signed drivers, it wont allow a non-signed driver like Vista 32bit.  Doc works in a medical field, so I imagine there might be a piece of software and or hardware that is not yet Vista 64bit compatible.

The 2008 thing was a joke kind of.  I think its faster, but for one reason all the eye candy of Vista is off.  If you turn that eye candy off in Vista it gets faster, or if you turn it on in 2008 it gets slower.

Thanks, guys. Those volumes are no longer with us as they are in cyber heaven. I'm thinking about building again in the fall. Wae has me intersted in 64 bit this time. It makes sense as I love speed and have few peripherals and apps to load, so even if there was a compatibilty issue with some stuff, it wouldn't effect me.

@Snakedoctor1 (And really for DrWam)

Vista 64 bit does NOT require signed drivers anymore (SP1 change) although it is a VERY good idea not to turn that off unless you have a compelling reason.

When WS2008 and Vista SP1 are configured with the same features they should perform identically since they're the same OS.

As for things getting faster with the eye candy off, don't take that as a given. Since Aero used a GPU and Classic doesn't, in some cases Aero is actually faster. (The point being don't make assumptions - test instead)

@Mike

Honest question here, since I gather that you're a developer.

Why does window resizing still cause horrible image tearing and have generally poor performance in Vista?  I thought the WPF was supposed to be a ground-up new display engine.  Whether it's Internet Explorer or Windows Media Player, the slick UI instantly breaks when resizing.

In OSX, you generally don't see any tearing and now get excellent application resize performance.  I believe this is a matter of double-buffering to prevent the tearing, but I'm not a coder.  Given, Quartz is many many iterations more mature than Aero and at the beginning had serious performance trouble the machine of the time (2001)... but still, even OSX 10.0 didn't exhibit this tearing.

Any thoughts?

@johnpapola

Honest answer here. I've never had that problem in any of my computers. I'd suspect a problem with the video driver or bought some seriously crappy video hardware that's broken.

Now, considering the supposed intent of an "honest question" I'll ignore the Mac Roolz d00d second paragraph as you just not being able to hold an entire post together.

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