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Paul,

Your post is simply confusing the concepts of absolute amounts versus percentages.  You're market-share hound, so I'd expect better analysis than this.

Neither of these links claim that more music is purchased by Mac users than PC users in absolute numbers.  Clearly that's not the case and it's not claimed.  What they found was that Mac users are dramatically more likely to buy digital music than PC users as a percentage of the userbase.  

This could be because the Mac userbase is generally more digital media savy, given the strength of the platform in digital media creation and consumption.  Similarly, it may point to the fact that the massive Windows userbase is more diverse in interest that the Mac userbase with a much smaller portion of Windows users interested in digital music and media (compared to, say, using their PC strictly for personal finances).

It could also point to a culture of piracy that's perhaps more pervasive in the Windows world.   Clearly, "warez" sites are principally a windows-software enterprise.

In any event, the report points to a very real difference in the behavior of the Mac userbase compared to the PC userbase.  I'm not really sure what issue you're taking with this.  Could you clarify?

To add to John, I would even throw in the slight possibility that the Mac user base "might" have deeper pockets.

^^ Exactly. Windows users = majority of users -> average user. Big chunk are PC geeks that use bittorrent, emule, shareazaa... So a big population on the windows side are not very wealthy (teens, average people) and know about P2P.

On thew other hand Mac people in general are not computer savvy and never heard of Bittorrent or emule. They are as said before usually well-off, so the must natural and easy way to acquire music is via iTunes.  QED

"On thew other hand Mac people in general are not computer savvy and never heard of Bittorrent or emule. They are as said before usually well-off, so the must natural and easy way to acquire music is via iTunes."

AHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!! What?!

Jesus, I'm a Mac user and I cried the day I found out OiNK was taken offline.

WTF is OINK ?

Paul you really can be an idiot when it comes to figures and stats. I use 'idiot' in a friendly way. John Papola has already explained absolute vs percentage. But cumon' you new that already, didn't you?

"16 percent of the PC market is much, much higher than 50 percent of the Mac market"

Well actually it's not that much more! Using NPD's 9% Mac (CONSUMER) users makes it only about THREE times more.

Disclaimer: I don't care where anyone buys their music, or what computer they use.

What might be of interest in this particular statistic is that if you sell digital music online .... and your store won't even work on a Mac.... then you could be turning away 25% of your business before they even 'walk through the door'.

how sweet, biased news reporting from the apple lovers ;-) nice one Paul!

Okay, clearly Paul isn't even attempting to be unbiased anymore.

"Okay, clearly Paul isn't even attempting to be unbiased anymore."

Of course not. He should bring back the "nexus", where he could at least pretend to be objective. But he obviously can't be on a site sponsored by "Windows IT Pro". Gotta suck up to the folks paying the bills.

Either Paul thinks we are all idiots, or he is one himself.  He pointed out the most obvious of facts, but was obviously reading way to far into the words of the original writer.

The writer's intent was obvious to anyone with anything more than a 100 IQ.

 Yes, I take this personally as I, a Mac user, pirate just as much music as any Windows user!:)

 C'mon guys, it's just another irrelevant statistic, and Paul displayed it with no ill will. Cut him a break on this one. As stated, most iPod owners have Windows, not Mac OS. I myself use my [wife's] iPod on one of my PC's [that I built]. So, it was the Windows community thar help build the iPod empire, and cause a halo effect. Cupertino thanks you all!

Here's the ill will... Paul's erroneous take on the stories was an effort to reinforce how the Mac userbase is marginal and irrelevant compared to the Windows userbase.  

I don't know how he mistook the clear information in the articles, but he obviously took this study and it's commentary as "yet another effort to make the Mac marketshare and userbase seem more important than it really is".  It's clear that this was his intent.

Paul is obviously biased against what he views as an out-sized degree of attention the media gives to Apple and increasingly to Mac users.  He thinks that the PC v Mac ads are laden with lies (they're mostly accurate, if a bit simplified and hyperbolic... you know... because they

re ADVERTISING!!!!!!).  He really believes that Apple and it's supporters need to be constantly "put in their place" and he's the objective truth teller to do it.

The reality, however, is that Mac users buy more software and media as a percentage of the overall mac userbase than Windows users do of theirs.  There was a recent statistic that stated 16% of all software sales were Mac software.  When you look at these stats, it simply shows that the Mac userbase is a more viable market than the marketshare of the system implies.

This, as Mary points out, makes it all the more idiotic that online Media stores almost entirely ignore the Mac, save Amazon's MP3 store and eMusic.  

But, again, that doesn't fit into the narrative that Paul has baked in his head (no offense to Paul).  He really just seems hell bent of pouring cold water on Mac user statistics whether it's this, or his quarterly rant about the marketshare numbers in which he always defaults to the worldwide share (where Apple's share is smallest) as the one true number that matters (though it's clearly the least important).

"There was a recent statistic that stated 16% of all software sales were Mac software.  When you look at these stats, it simply shows that the Mac userbase is a more viable market than the marketshare of the system implies.'

True, I remember seeing the sales figures of Office for Mac, it represented a big slice of the total sales of Office versions, despite its 3.5% market share worldwide

Allrighty.  

First of all, to all kicking and screaming about misinterpreting statistics, I read Paul's statement as being a response to "Mac Users Buy More Music," which talks in absolute terms, and thus Paul's response was in absolute terms.  

And Mac people.  You ARE, as a userbase, marginal and insignificant.  Face it.  There are precious few industries (desktop publishing comes to mind) were Macs are used as the primary PC for work, and that is the majority of the installed base, make no mistake about it.  Not that Windows doesn't dominate in the home PC market, as well.  So stop your superiority trip.  

And if you don't think Apple's advertising is, at times, outright lies, and in the best case scenario highly misleading - you are either blind or idiotic yourself.  

And if you think that most people interpret the lies as "tongue and cheek" and can "see through the humor," you are mistaken.  I had to point out the fallacies to a couple of people who were convinced that the ads were complete truth.

Anyway, nothing I or anybody else will ever convince you that Apple is not all that it says it is, so go on; carry on with the stroking.

"And Mac people.  You ARE, as a userbase, marginal and insignificant.  Face it.  There are precious few industries (desktop publishing comes to mind) were Macs are used as the primary PC for work, and that is the majority of the installed base"

cough, cough....

Actually if you remove the corporate computers from the equation as you do, which makes sense as we speak of home computers here, you can remove half the PCs sold in US and roughly 10% of the macs sold. Thus the home PC market share of the Mac right now is more around15% than 8%. So it's hardly an insignificant population.

Now if you add the fact that that Mac buyers are usually more wealthy than Windows users, and they are more likely to buy softs and music (which is not a legend) that slice comes closer to 30% of the music and softs market... even less negligible !

"And if you don't think Apple's advertising is, at times, outright lies, and in the best case scenario highly misleading - you are either blind or idiotic yourself."

Man you must be living on another planet or have never used a Mac daily for 20 years or abuse you Prozac. I don't deny that Apple turns facts into commercial irony in its series of ads thus irking windows zealots like you, but c'mon, use a mac without anti-virus for a few years and you'll see that your mac will purr and be as zippy as it was the first day you used it. The bloatware on commercial PCs -> true , Vista being a pig and disappointing -> true and the list goes on, ... so stop living in your fantasy world and try yourself a mac at home. It will calm your nerves and you'll know a little about what we talk here...

See what I mean?  You know very little about me and are so ready to call me a zealot.  I am not.  

I have been critical of Windows in the past.  Which is why I have always thought that XP was a step in the right direction (compared to 98) and Vista was an even bigger leap.  Actually, Windows is becoming more and more like Unix, in terms of the core design, and that's exactly what MacOS is - a GUI slapped on a Unix, isn't it?  (I know I am simplifying here, but anyway).

Now, as for the "we are more well off" comment - isn't that a bit self-serving?  I am not sure as to whether or not it is true, although I can see how it could be.  And I can see how it couldn't be - not all designers are well off; some of them are quite poor.

And here's the rub.  You CAN'T exclude the corporate installed base from any conversation about OS's.  Or software sales.  'Cause that's where the money is.  And always will be.  So pardon me when I say so, but Macs can be nice as a personal luxury appliance, if you will, but it is nowhere near as good as a PC as a computing platform.  

By the way; I have used Macs and am not a fan, but it's a matter of preference.

Last but not least - this is a discussion about Paul's article so I apologize for taking it on this tangent.  I meant to show that you guys were criticizing Paul's statement out of context and insulting his intelligence.  The Mac crowd really got that "out of context" thing down pat, haven't they? (sorry, couldn't resist)

"Windows is becoming more and more like Unix, in terms of the core design, and that's exactly what MacOS is"

True

"isn't that a bit self-serving?"

No it's a fact and Paul will be glad to remind you that Macs are expensive machines.

"not all designers are well off; some of them are quite poor"

You must be living in midwest US because out here in California anybody buys Macs, not just designers as you like to say.

"You CAN'T exclude the corporate installed base from any conversation"

Yes I can 'caus we are talking about people buying music here, which usually occurs at home and not at work.

"'Cause that's where the money is"

Maybe but the corporate computers are PCs just by corporate decision not by people's choice...

"Macs can be nice as a personal luxury appliance"

I'm sure in does a little bit more than that in my home and in the Mac users home in general. Now it's true they don't serve as botnet army !

"By the way; I have used Macs and am not a fan, but it's a matter of preference"

Totally true, I use both, mostly PC (because of work).

We are not insulting his intelligence, Mary said she meant it in a kind way.  But this article is a total no-brainer, and only Paul could come up with that absolute number thing here rather than percentage which doesn't mean nothing, nada...

It is true. Windows users are thieves and cheap.

Office for Mac info:

www.microsoft-watch.com/.../the_year_of_office_2007.html

ibarskiy,

Thanks for pushing this discussion about the post straight into factless fanboy flameland.  For the record, we're all discussing the article and Paul's take, not silly platform-war nonsense.

Let's briefly dissect you're, um, "contributions" to this discussion...

QUOTE #1. "You ARE, as a userbase, maginal and insignificant.  Face it."

A. Insignificant to whom?  To game developers?  sure.  To in-house enterprise developers? yeah... big deal.

Based on this article, clearly not to any business interested in selling digital media. (you know, the primary driving force behind "web 2.0" and it's venture capital boom).  We're certainly not insignificant to Microsoft given that Mac Office is 20% of their overall Office sales (according to NPD via Joe Wilcox).  We're definitely not insignificant to Adobe, who would see their company cut in half if they ditched the Mac.

Your statement is broad to the point of ignorant and insulting... and obviously wrong.

QUOTE #2. "few industries where Mac used as the primary PC...

A.  And why does this matter?  I work at Viacom.  We're a pretty big company, I'd say, and we're about 1/3 Macs.  The PC's are used by adsales, accounting and management... and guess what... there's no additional software on those machines.  They are essentially dumb boxes that run nothing but Windows and Office.  

The "killer apps" for the great majority of business are... Microsoft Office.  Outlook, PowerPoint, Word & Excel.  So... why should anyone care about that?  It's not like there's this epic opportunity for third party software developers in these corporate PCs.  And ALL of the internal custom software for Human Resources, Accounts Payable and the rest are now WEB BASED and work fine on the thousands of Macs in use.

So... again, what is your point?

QUOTE #3.  "corporate installed base... is where the money is..."

Money for who? Not me. Not third party developers, as I pointed out above.  But wait... there's plenty of money for Microsoft in the enterprise and a handful of other companies.  How does that affect the usefulness of the Mac platform for consumers?  Oh wait... it doesn't.

So why does overall market share even matter? It doesn't.  But then, is your statement even reasonable.  Let's look at where "the money is".

Here's some market figures...

Dell

Market Cap = 55.78 Billion

Profit Margin = 5%

Net Income ytd = 2.58 Billion

HP

Market Cap = 131.68 Billion

Profit Margin = 7%

Net Income ytd = 7.2 Billion

Apple

Market Cap = 163.91 Billion

Profit Margin = 14.56%

Net Income ytd = 3.49 Billion

I'd say there's a whole lot of "money" in the market for Apple products.  There's a hell of allot more profit margin, that's for sure.  And there sure is WAY more money for investors in Apple over the past five years.  WAY more.  Apple stock helped me buy my house.

As for Apple's ads being lies... point some actual examples out and I'll happily concede.  Otherwise, give it up.  Paul's post wasn't about the wording of the title, or he'd have said that.  This post is just lame and off base.

johnpapola, I generally don't like to get personal, but you did take it there so, I will respond.

It was not me that brought up marginal and irrelevant.  It was you ("Here's the ill will... Paul's erroneous take on the stories was an effort to reinforce how the Mac userbase is marginal and irrelevant compared to the Windows userbase").  I did misquote you, I concede.  So I am not sure as to who took it to fanboy land, to me it was your defensive posturing.  

Now let's look at Paul's quote in terms of context and what it pertained to.  

Here it is.  "Why Do Mac Owners Buy More Music? For starters, they don't, as a group."  So to me it makes perfect sense.  It would, actually, to anyone who is not defensive in the first place and overzealously ready to fly their Mac flag proudly.  To point out the obvious, Why Do Mac Owners Buy More Music?  is an absolute statement.  A relative statement would be something like Why Do More Mac Owners Buy Music?  Although it would be nice to add a clarification like "as a percentage" in there somewhere.

As to the remainder of your points - yes, I do live outside of California and I'm happy the Mac fad is big there.  But to think that Cali is representative of the rest of the world would be a big mistake.  If you wish to know what third party software runs on Windows-based workstations, well, anything Autodesk makes is an example of a third party software that runs on Windows-based platforms.  Quite popular in the industrial design world.  And 3D modeling world.  Oh, and here's an interesting piece of trivia, if memory serves me right it doesn't support Intel-based Macs running Windows.  Oops.

And, like was noted, Apple OS is not friendly to sysadmins anyway...

And last but not least,  let's recognize that Apple's profitability is impacted by the iPod devices (which are excellent, of course).  So your numbers are not really apples to apples.

Anyway...

First off, Paul's post quotes a large chunk of the article which clearly spells out the relative/percentile nature of the study and then goes off on his absolutist rant.  My point remains that his response exposes a bias.  He's making no point of particular use at all to anyone.  If he was going to critique the headline, he should have spelled out that the headline was misleading.  Instead, he quoted from the body of the main article.  I'm just calling it like I see it man.  

And, um... I'm not sure how I made anything personal.  But anyway... I said you took it to fanboy land because you went into broad generalized criticism with no facts to support your points of view.  I laid out my rebuttal to the things I have a problem with in your posts, but I see you're choosing not to actually respond with real information.  Again, this is fanboy land.  You called the mac userbase "marginal and insignificant" in a condescending way with "face it".

And for the record, I live in New Jersey and work at Spike TV (part of Viacom) in New York City, not California.  Yes I work in TV, which is media where the Mac is very prevalent.  I also happened to grow up building my own PC's and didn't switch to the mac until after college 7 years ago (After Jobs came back and saved them from death). As for the "mac fad", I'd call multiple years of steady growth near 3 times the industry rate more than a fad, but whatever.

And, yes, there are clearly many application that are windows-only.  How many consumers user AutoCAD?  I'd guess less than 100,000 people in the US. I could say the same thing about Final Cut Pro, which I use weekly and has an installed base probably comparable to AutoCAD (over 800,000 users worldwide). Not sure how niche market applications are relevant to a discussion about mainstream consumer buying habits.  The mac is perfectly viable for 95% of computer users.

Again, I'm not coming in here saying "Mac rulez, PC SUX".  I'm making a very measured point, which is that Paul takes every opportunity to try and marginalize the impact of the Mac and Mac users and this little article is one example among many on his blog.

Now... you haven't actually rebutted anything I brought up, which is unfortunate.  As for the financial results, they speak for themselves.  Dell, HP and Apple all have diverse product portfolios, so your point isn't relevant.  Take out HP's printers and I wouldn't be surprised if they make LESS money on computers than Apple does.  The Mac still represents more than half of Apple's business.

I'm not on here to convince anyone of anything.  I just chafe at Mac bashing and fact-less, example-free argument.  If you're gonna claim an ad lies, back it up.  If you're gonna tell someone they're insignificant, demonstrate how.   Otherwise, frankly, just keep it to yourself.

Merry Christmas

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