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A few notes from the road...

I've been in London since the end of last week, and we're flying home tomorrow. I've been meaning to write up a few tech-related notes about the trip, been thinking about it, and, well... here we are. Leaving tomorrow. Better get moving on that one. :)

Tech triage from the trip
Travelling with kids, I know to bring along a bunch of things to keep them occupied. This was even more important for this particular trip, since we were traveling to London during the day (thanks, American Airlines) instead of the typical overnight trip. In other words, the kids would be awake the whole time and expect to be entertained.

To this end, I always bring at least a second laptop that they can use for watching movies. I spent a crazy amount of time before the trip re-ripping their DVDs into decent quality H.264, and loaded up the Macbook with them. I brought the HP Tablet PC for myself, and I have to say, I'm really hating this machine. More on this later, but I'll be getting rid of this piece of crud as soon as I can.

I usually bring at least a couple of iPods. They're small, they get great battery life, and while it's true that you can't beat the screen size on a typical notebook, iPods, especially the iPod touch, work great in a pinch and work just fine in cramped coach seats. In fact, thinking through the (ahem) value proposition, it occurred to me that a $400 iPod touch is, in many ways, a much better investment than a second laptop battery, assuming you can get a couple of years of use out of it. I ended up loading up an iPod touch with some kids movies, and my kids were all over it. I suspect that part of it was the fun-new-gadget thing, but they clearly preferred it over the Macbook. That said, both got a nice workout. Annoyingly, I caught them watching the same movie on two different devices at one point. We always bring an audio splitter. Kids.

I read a bunch on the Kindle (yet another Robert Ludlum book) and listened to some audio books on an iPod classic. The sheer number of charger types I've juggled, along with the various UK power adapters required here, has been somewhat humorous. But it's worked out. We should be set for the flight home.

Where's the iPhone?
I've been to Europe twice since the beginning of the year, once to Paris and once here in London, and aside from my own iPhone, I haven't seen a single iPhone here. Well, that's not strictly true: My friends in Paris both had iPhones, but they're Apple fans and it's not clear they represent the general population. (They're moving to Toulouse, so we jokingly refer to them as the "two losers," i.e. "the Toulousers," get it? Nevermind.) It's sort of astonishing how many people have their face in phones over here, but none of them are made by Apple. I'm sure it will come.

Speaking of the iPhone, I'm glad that Apple has implemented the international data access warnings and blockers I suggested last summer when I spent a month overseas, but the feature is hard to find (it's buried in settings) and hard to figure out. (Does turning this feature "on" enable or disable data access over EDGE?) This should be easier. But it's better than nothing.

London
I love London. Actually my kids do too, which I was interested to see. It's a huge city with lots of amazing sites (most historical in nature). Like Paris, the people here love to read: There are all kinds of books and newspapers open on the train, which is nice to see, though some of the papers here are notably horrible. Indeed, some of the ugliest parts of American culture are surprisingly prevalent here: The horrific reality shows, the babbling morning hosts, all that stuff. I enjoy the language differences. I was happy that two people asked me for directions at different points and I was able to help both. It's a great city.

In the London Underground, there's a huge amount of advertising, as with Paris, and much of it is video-oriented (unlike Paris). And yep, these animated screens run Windows, as evidenced by the two error screens I saw. (Older versions of Windows, of course.) Here they are.

HP Tablet PC
I like the size and weight of this Tablet PC I purchased recently (and temporarily) for the "Windows Vista Secrets" revision. But man, what a piece of junk. The battery life is horrible. (Maybe 2.5 hours max.) It uses a clearly inferior AMD processor that is surprisingly slow (not as bad as those awful Transmeta chips, but pretty close), even when plugged in. It's so slow, in fact, that it can't play a full-screen video without stuttering while on battery power. That's atrocious in this day and age. Also, it's loud: The fan runs pretty constantly. It's the ultimate combination of speed, power, and ambient noise. Just not the good kind.

And while I'm not sure this is an entirely fair point to make, comparing the two laptops I brought on this trip is interesting. The Macbook is sleek, quiet, and gets decent battery life. (3-4 hours.) It's attractive, has no extraneous ports, and uses an elegant Magsafe power adapter. The HP, meanwhile, is full of ports and holes, bright blue lights, and weird do-dads like a pop-out remote control and Tablet PC pen. It's loud and tired, and gets bad battery life. The DVD drive is a flimsy pop-out draw, not the integrated internal slot-loading drive used by the Macbook.

To be fair, the HP has a number of useful features the Macbook lacks, not including the Tablet PC stuff. It has a multi-function memory card reader. It can boot into a dedicated media player without loading Windows. You can disable the trackpad if you want. Two dedicated headphone ports. It has an ExpressCard slot and more USB ports.

And yet. I get the attraction of Apple's products. They're just nicer. They do sacrifice functionality for looks. And my guess is that a lot of people are going to be OK with that. I see no reason why Apple can't keep gaining market share. And the Macbook is a fine Windows Vista machine. The best of both worlds?

Working from the road
Problems aside, I don't mind working off the HP, especially when it's plugged in. The long weekend (Presidents Day) enabled me to spend more time than usual not working this week, which was nice, but when I did work I split time between the room (no viable seating) and the so-called café/restaurant downstairs. The food is atrocious but there's beer and I got to write during a soccer match yesterday that was loudly enjoyed by the locals. As in the US, you can get wireless access for a price that gets more reasonable the more you purchase. One hour is exorbitant, a full day is decent, but a week is like the cost of two days. I've been playing with remote access to my Windows Home Server. It works fine, but it's slow. I recall traveling in the past with a silly number of backup DVDs. I don't do that anymore.

The only thing I really have to backup at this point is my local version of the SuperSite, and even that will be a thing of the past soon, as Penton is moving the site to Community Server. (Presumably it will be faster than this blog.) That will be updated all remotely. Nervous? Yeah, but if it works, life will get even easier.

Anyway... I upload photos to PicasaWeb for backup purposes. I can download Kindle subscriptions (newspapers like The New York Times and Wall Street Journal) daily to the laptop, and then copy them over USB to the device. This is a nice feature because you can't access the Kindle's free EV-DO network from Europe. But that doesn't mean you can't get access to your content. Sweet.

Home...
OK, I know I'm forgetting something, but that's most of the tech-oriented stuff I've been ruminating over this week. I think. :)

Comments

 

daveinla said:

"And yet. I get the attraction of Apple's products. They're just nicer. They do sacrifice functionality for looks. And my guess is that a lot of people are going to be OK with that. I see no reason why Apple can't keep gaining market share. And the Macbook is a fine Windows Vista machine. The best of both worlds?"

Welcome back to the reality !!

BTW have you seen that Apple cut back the production of iPhone and iPod and increased dramatically the production capacity of its laptops ? For sure their growth prospect lies now in the Mac line. Now I hope that Apple is gonna give them a little more love and update them pretty soon.

As good as the macbook is (Gee I have one of the very first batch, beginning '06) and god it's still good compared to recent products, I'd like Apple to give them the edge it had when they first came out. They are now thick and heavy compared to the competition. I can't wait for a slimmer, LCD back-lit penryn macbook with the trackpad of the Air... ;-P

I'm drooling now !!!

February 20, 2008 12:59 PM
 

lilserenity said:

I've not met anyone yet who has an iPhone outside of the geek/tech crowd in the UK. The big thing is that in Europe, and certainly the UK you can get incredibly good phones for nothing or very little indeed with a new contract or renewal. £269 is relatively steep for shelling out on a phone with a contract over here. Plus in general Europe has more advanced phones than the American market has so the playing field isn't quite as advantageous to Apple as it is in the US. That said, the iPhone hasn't done that badly, but people are used to 3g over here and 2.5g EDGE on O2 sucks.

As for London, it is a great city. But our cultural differences aren't as vast as perhaps they once were. Certainly I have lived out in America on various occasions and been able to suck it up and despite the vastness of the US, culturally we're pretty close -- even if we do have our sense of humour differences. :) Glad you enjoyed your trip!

February 20, 2008 1:36 PM
 

feralboy said:

Sadly, you chose what has been rated as one of the worst tablet pcs on the market. Plus, it's already "last year's model" as I believe HP addressed many of it's shortcomings (including the inking experience) in its latest model.

Vista's tablet features rock...but on the HP, not so much. The digitizer used is optimized for touch, not the pen, which makes almost no sense to me. Of course, they were probably aiming at a particular price point...

For those of us who "get" the joy of using a tablet, it was a sorry day when the only tablet with a presence at retail was so flawed.

February 20, 2008 1:56 PM
 

Iphone » Blog Archive » A few notes from the road… said:

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February 20, 2008 1:57 PM
 

heran said:

Agree with lilserenity. £269 is quite high price in UK. "The big thing is that in Europe, and certainly the UK you can get incredibly good phones for nothing or very little indeed with a new contract or renewal". That's true. I know many people get a new phone every year. Is apple going to announce an new iphone every year?

February 20, 2008 2:36 PM
 

Soccer » A few notes from the road… said:

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February 20, 2008 3:12 PM
 

Waethorn said:

At face value, the screenshots almost describe that they may have had a hard drive failure, which would explain the "error" screens.

The first screen shows a typical crash message, which can be caused by a hard drive crashing, if Windows was accessing the swap file at the time (the memory address is fairly high, so I'm assuming a bit here).  On the lower screen, there are no drive geometry assignments set to any of the standard IDE channels, although there is an AHCI SATA controller.  Since the IDE controller didn't failover to a bootable SATA drive, one would assume (ya, I know) that the hard drive was, in fact, defective.  I'd be grabbing a copy of Spinrite to run on it.

Of course, a faulty motherboard can do the same thing, if the drive controller was affected.  I've seen some pretty bad motherboards from the 1998-2004 timeframe with the dreaded "capacitor plague" issue.  A faulty power supply can cause either part to fail too, being that they're all connected.

February 20, 2008 3:56 PM
 

drylight said:

" (Older versions of Windows, of course.)"

Because Vista doesn't crash? I don't think so. It's because people aren't upgrading to Vista, so you won't see these crash screens for quite a while.

February 20, 2008 5:07 PM
 

RunTimeError said:

Waethorn, only you could take the funny out of those photos.

February 20, 2008 8:01 PM
 

Waethorn said:

"Waethorn, only you could take the funny out of those photos."

You must be one of those people that laughs when your system crashes then.  I only laugh when it happens at an Apple store.  It happens more often that you think too.  I've been at an Apple store no less than 5 times, and EVERY. SINGLE. TIME. someone has managed to cause a display machine do a kernel-panic.  Lots of fun was had by all (except the Apple "geniuses" who were in total disbelief, and denied it actually happened when I pointed it out).

February 20, 2008 8:20 PM
 

DRWAM said:

I haven't had a single kernal panic since before Jaguar OS 10.2, but my first BSOD on Vista came after the 5th startup. However, it was the ATI video driver, which was either from ATI, or Bootcamp [it may have been installed by bootcamp!]. Also, the only BSOD on my XP custom PC was due to overheating of the CPU from the [inadequate] stock Intel fan for the P4 Prescott, not a software problem. Adding a better heatsync and fan fixed it. So it was again not Windows. I guess my PC's like me better than yours' like you all.  I must say the Mac OS and programs has been much more stable [crash much less] than Windows, but of course, it may simply be third party apps and drivers and never had any bad consequences whatsoever. To conclude this bipolar post, both Vista and Leopard are pretty darn sweet. If I did not own a Mac, I really doubt that I would switch. [average user of course].

February 21, 2008 10:52 AM
 

joe-dokes said:

I call BS on that Waethorn.

First, do you even know what a kernal panic look like on a mac?  And since you're such a mac hater WTF are you doing in an apple store, wouldn't you act like like Damien being dragged into a church?

Second, if you are telling the truth, what should be more amazing to you is the fact that at Apple stores you can actually use the products.  The machines aren't locked down in demo mode.  You can browse the net, use iTunes, try out garage band etc.  Most often when I walk into best buy, I can see the Windows machines, but when I go to touch them the are locked in demo mode, any attempt to quit out of the demo is met with prompt for a password.  Basically MS is not robust enough to give the potential purchaser the opportunity to actually test drive the machine.

Regards

Joe Dokes

February 21, 2008 11:06 AM
 

theCheez said:

Joe, I'm going to call yours. Best Buy does not have the systems locked down in demo mode. They do have a demo screen going, but it is easy to get out with simple key combination that takes it to the desktop and not to a password prompt. Now I will admit that it has been a few months since I've been in a best buy, and they may have changed the software. However you can usually just ask a man in blue if they could shut it off and they'll usually do that. Now that may depend on the individual store as well.

Even if the did lock it, that is Best Buy's choice, not microsoft. And I believe Best Buy sells apple products as well.

February 21, 2008 1:05 PM
 

DRWAM said:

Going more off topic, is that a screen saver in Vista with the Koi swimming in a pond, or a demo, and where can I get it? I could not find it in my Vista screen saver. We have goldfish and the kids would love it. I named one Paul. It's the least I can do since he sorta saved me $599, and probable despair. I still looking at the Centro, and a decent case should hide the girlie white color. A guy my size just can't carry something that looks so fem.

February 21, 2008 1:37 PM
 

lotsamystuff said:

Paul: GREAT post. This is the kind of stuff I used to read the "Nexus" for. Interesting, funny, fair...wow. More like this, please!

"joe-dokes": Waethorn has admitted in past posts that he trolls Apple stores looking to convert customers to the custom Frankenstein Boxes he sells out of his own store. His magnetic personality must cause a "Wae Distortion Field" that causes Macs to mysteriously malfunction, because he consistently writes about this happening with alarming regularity.

I can count on one hand (and have fingers left over) the number of Kernel Panics I've ever had on my own systems. Either "Waethorn" is lying, incredibly unlucky, or exaggerating for effect. Given his DRAMATIC. USE. OF. CAPITAL. LETTERS, I'd say it's the latter.

February 21, 2008 1:39 PM
 

joe-dokes said:

As for locked screen savers, and demo programs.  The fact that you need a key combination or a password is simply dumb.  

The Apple beckons, "come here, explore, see what I can do."  

While the HP, Dell beckons, "get the geek, you are too incompetent to use me, I may break."

Compare that to the windows box, even in the simplest situation, where you as the customer might try to see how responsive the OS is by opening some programs you either need to know CTRL ALT X to close the program or you need some teenager in a blue shirt to either hit the key sequence on the keyboard or enter a password.  

PC users like to brag about how much "control" they have over their machines.  Yet, there is this strange dichotomy: A PC in the enterprise is locked down tighter than a Bulls Ass.  I read post after post from Windows IT guys who basically say, if you lock down the machine they become stable and highly reliable.  Yet, for the poor guy in a cubicle he can't so much as change the screen saver.  At home the end user has complete control, but again the control comes at a huge price.  Do to the reliance on the Registry, which in  my opinion is one of the stupidest engineering decisions ever made, loading and unloading software on a PC eventually gums it up requiring a complete reinstall.  Thus, PC users are home are loathe to install software unless they are comfortable occasionally rebuilding the entire system.

Regards

Joe Dokes

PS as for Kernal Panics, I've personally used every version of OS X since 10.1.3  and have had a total of four.  Once on 10.2, Once on 10.4, and Twice on 10.5.  BSOD's are too numerous to mention.

February 21, 2008 3:30 PM
 

Waethorn said:

"DRAMATIC. USE. OF. CAPITAL. LETTERS"

and yet you've done the same on more than one occasion losta.

take your own medicine and "F U C K O F F"

btw:  yes i have seen kernel panics before.  it's quite hilarious actually.  Mac "geniuses" don't have a clue on how to handle them, or how to explain them to customers.  and yes, each store makes their own decisions about how to demo products.  not every single display model in an Apple store is available for user interactivity....and the last time i looked, it wasn't called "Microsoft Best Buy 2006"

"And I believe Best Buy sells apple products as well."

and yet, there's never anybody looking at them at the store.... :)

February 21, 2008 4:33 PM
 

joe-dokes said:

Gee Waethorn,

Did we touch a nerve?

Can you say skin as thin as a onion?

Let's see how to handle a Kernel panic, Umm the same way you handle the BSOD, turn the machine off and on.  Like I've said, i've had a few kernel panics with my Mac over the last few years, about one every eighteen months.  

Guess what, you're also right Best Buy does sell Apple products. I was just there a couple of weeks ago buying guitar hero for the Wii.  Guess what, the Macs aren't locked down.  You can go up to them in the middle of the demo program grab the mouse click on any portion of the machine and begin using it.  This is as it should be.  The fact that stores like Best Buy and Circuit City frequently lock customers into Demos on Windows machines says something about the fragility of the Window environment.  

Regards

Joe Dokes

PS from one troll to another, remember the golden rule.  Don't write angry, you come across as looking childish and imature.

February 21, 2008 5:55 PM
 

Apple » re: A few notes from the road… said:

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February 21, 2008 5:59 PM
 

DRWAM said:

You guys crack me up! This is a great site for entertainment. But Waethorn, that was an excellent use of caps! You even had my wife in tears, and I just spritz on my LCD.

Anyway, many just don't understand the beauty of a 'Frankenstein Box'. I modded out my box and installed the components that I wanted. Not some box with a mobo or vid card selection that I do not want. Some of my friends are now buying custom from places like CyberpowerPC with happy results. It's getting to a point where you don't save on building yourself, but you can get better components and spend less money than a name or 'lame' brand. I still love my modded Ninja box better than my Pro Tower [which looks like a cheese grater]. But I still use the Mac OS more out of preference.

Peace,

Doc.

February 21, 2008 6:16 PM
 

Waethorn said:

"Let's see how to handle a Kernel panic, Umm the same way you handle the BSOD, turn the machine off and on."

And yet, can you diagnose what actually causes one so as to prevent it in the future?  The Apple "geniuses" sure as hell can't!  Yet, I can easily go into the Event Viewer on a Windows machine and tell you exactly what's causing a BSOD so it doesn't happen again.  Sometimes it's not even necessary to do that, because there's often enough information right on the BSOD to correct the issue.  That's just not so with a kernel panic.

"Guess what, you're also right Best Buy does sell Apple products. I was just there a couple of weeks ago buying guitar hero for the Wii.  Guess what, the Macs aren't locked down.  You can go up to them in the middle of the demo program grab the mouse click on any portion of the machine and begin using it.  This is as it should be."

The last time I was in a Best Buy with Apple machines, they had exactly 2 Macbooks and an iMac and they were all turned off!  Each store is different.  Most PC's on display were also free and open too while some were playing multimedia demos to highlight features of those machines (they draw your attention, since there are so many PC's available, while the Mac's were at the back behind the service desk).  They even had full internet access.

"Don't write angry, you come across as looking childish and imature."

"But Waethorn, that was an excellent use of caps! You even had my wife in tears, and I just spritz on my LCD."

ok first, DRWAM, ewww....

I'm just making fun of losta here by repeating his own words back to him.  He'll criticize on here for using all caps or to making this board uncivilized, and yet for the uninformed, I'm just quoting what he wrote to someone on Paul's other site - WinInformant.  He also similarly called someone a "dipsh1t admin" on there - why do you think that user uses that name?  losta is just trying to win new "friends" over on this board because nobody likes him on the other.

"Anyway, many just don't understand the beauty of a 'Frankenstein Box'."

Here's a newsflash for losta, as well as the uninformed:  EVERY computer is a "Frankenstein box".  If you really think that Apple (or Dell, or HP, etc.) make their own hardware, you should go back to being a marketing hack and quit wasting bandwidth with your nonsensical drivel (that's losta's job, and he disclosed that little tidbit of info on WinInfo).

February 22, 2008 12:34 AM
 

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February 22, 2008 4:38 AM
 

joe-dokes said:

Waethorn,

There are a number of tools that can be used to diagnose problems on a mac, you just don't know what they are, so you believe they don't exist.

Also since I've had on average less than one kernel panic per year, closer to one every two years I don't feel it is entirely necessary to try to diagnose every kernel panic I face.  Now if I face a continuous or frequent problem I will delve into it.  But to be honest, and I know you won't believe me, I don't have that many problems.  For example, when I bought my iMac G5 10.4 AKA Tiger had just been released, as a result the first few months with Tiger were a bit rough, in that while the machine only kernel panicked once, there were several repeated application crashes.  By 10.4.1 to 10.4.3 (about 6 months after release) the machine has not been shut down or restarted except for the administration of patches.  The same has been true for 10.5,  I ordered a new Macbook Pro the day 10.5 was announced, the computer came with 10.4 and for 10 Dollars I recieved a disk with 10.5 on it.  I waited to install 10.5 until 10.5.1 was released, just to be safe.  10.5.1 was quite stable though I've had Safari crash a few times (it appears to be a problem with either the Adobe Flash plugin or Safari, or some interaction of the two.)  I also had a single kernel panic after allowing the machine to run all night downloading some stuff off a friends ftp server.

You may NEED to know what the cryptic numbers on a BSOD mean, because they may actually help you solve a persistent and real problem with you box.  My Macs have had problems but they have been so infrequent that they have not required the time or energy to investigate.

Your comment about franken boxes shows that you truly don't understand how ANY complex product is produced.  Do you honestly believe that Air Bus, or Boeing does all the engineering and design of their products.  No Engines are designed by Rolls Royce and GE.  They also buy sub assemblies and parts from literally thousands of suppliers.  

Even in the automotive industry parts are supplied by a huge variety of parts.  For example, if you are into classic cars both the Hurst Shifter and the Muncie 4-Speed were produced by companies completely independent from Chevrolet.  The ZF Transmission used in the C5 Corvette is produced by a corporation other than GM.  Bosch doesn't make cars, but its electronics and fuel injection parts are supplied to many different manufacturers.  

Thus although many of the components in your PC are made by a variety of corporations does not make it a "Franken" PC.  When I pay the slight premium for an Apple Box over building my own, one of the things I'm paying for is engineering, design and customer support.  Now for a company like Dell they spend as little on Engineering as humanly possible.  Thus, you get a loud noisy box, that while it may work it is going to be clunky, ugly, and cheap.  

If you then say, "Hey if you build your own, you can get exactly what you want."  True but you get all the headaches of building your own.  Case in point, I've built and restored several cars over the years.  In one case I built a complete sand rail from tubular chasis.  I got to pick EVERY SINGLE component.  I chose the engine, transmission, suspension components.  Everything.  Guess what, it was f-n fast.  And like most hand built cars it was entirely unreliable.  It required constant attention.  Every aspect of the car had to be inspected and maintained after every trip to the desert.  After about two years, the car became more reliable. I fixed engineering mistakes, I fixed assembly mistakes, I fixed ergonomic mistakes (the first set of seat belts weren't installed at the right angle and were uncomfortable, steering wheel was too close to the driver).  After two years of near constant tinkering the car got a lot better.  And for what it was designed to do, it did it exceptionally well.    Part of the joy of the hobby was being able to tinker.  But I don't want to f-n tinker with a computer.  Been there done that, unlike cars, there is no visceral satisfaction that comes from getting computer to just work.  I'm sure you disagree.

Finally, DRWAM may think your funny, I don't.    Perhaps if you would have added an emoticon after the F U C K O F F you wouldn't have come across like a pissed off child.

Regards

Joe Dokes

February 22, 2008 12:05 PM
 

DRWAM said:

Joe, the Dell Dimension 410 was a pretty nice looking box with a small LCD screen at the top with info and previews. I was impressed with the ease and speed of setup using Vista and IE with a 2.4 quad CPU and 3GB RAM. For only $1000 as well. This Mac user was impressed. But yes, Dell support just sucks.

   PS, my brother and I made a '34 Ford chop with a corvette engine. We chromed anything that we did not know should be painted. Unfortunately, he closed his body shop when he got married. You know the deal. I had a 92 Vette and used to hand wax it myself, but I sold it when I broke my back power lifting.

February 22, 2008 7:00 PM
 

joe-dokes said:

DRWAM,

Ouch Broken back, a 34 Ford is probably one of the best looking street rods EVER.  

I still work on cars, I am the very early stages of dropping a modern Hemi in a '67 Dart.  I like to tinker but a wife and two kids make it difficult.  You know the deal, women can't live with 'em can't shoot 'em

Joe Dokes

February 22, 2008 7:25 PM
 

Collectible Cars - Information on Collectible Cars » re: A few notes from the road… said:

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February 25, 2008 2:42 AM
 

Waethorn said:

"When I pay the slight premium for an Apple Box over building my own, one of the things I'm paying for is engineering, design and customer support.  Now for a company like Dell they spend as little on Engineering as humanly possible.  Thus, you get a loud noisy box, that while it may work it is going to be clunky, ugly, and cheap."

Let's get one thing straight - design and engineering at two completely different things.

Apple DESIGNS their systems (they choose the specs that they want and how it is supposed to look), but they don't engineer anything - the part makers do.  You're not paying for Apple's engineering whatsoever.

February 25, 2008 11:23 AM
 

lotsamystuff said:

"...they don't engineer anything - the part makers do.  You're not paying for Apple's engineering whatsoever"

Wrong again, "Waethorn":

www.apple.com/.../hardware

February 26, 2008 1:44 PM
 

Waethorn said:

losta you fool

patent-registering does not engineering make.

February 26, 2008 11:53 PM

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