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How Apple Is Preparing for an iPod Slump

Saul Hansell at The New York Times is turning into one of my must-read bloggers. Which is to say, he might very well be the first of my must-read bloggers as I don't actually have any yet. That said, this post is open to an interesting debate:

Apple has a little iPod problem. And it is doing an amazing job of rising above it.

The number of iPods sold in the quarter (10.6 million) grew only 1 percent from the same quarter a year ago. And sales of the low-end iPod Shuffle have been falling sharply. In response, Apple lowered the price of the 1-gigabyte shuffle from $79 to $49, helping to stanch the decline. Apple executives speaking on a conference call Wednesday afternoon gave few details, as is their custom.

For some companies, a mature market and downward pressure on prices could lead to a nasty death spiral. But Apple has used its amazing six-year run with the iPod to nurture enough new business lines that it will be able to withstand a collapse in the MP3-player market as well as can be imagined.

Apple's strategy for the "iPod slump," as Hansell sees it, breaks down to:

  • Continued revenue from the iTunes Store ("the company sold $881 million worth of music and accessories" in the past quarter.) I'm going to go out on a very well-established limb and note that 99 percent of the actual income Apple derives from "music and accessories" is really from "accessories." So I'd put the point at "The iPod ecosystem" not "the iTunes Store," which to all accounts is still treading water financially. Put another way, the iTunes Store is a support ecosystem for the iPod, not the reverse, and the store is there as a reason to buy a new iPod, and not as a reason to keep spending money on an old iPod. It's all about promise, really.
  • Product upgrades. As was the case with the Mac until the switchers took over, the best iPod customers are existing iPod customers. But with the market currently saturated, Apple will really have to show up with some exciting products to get people to upgrade. The iPod classic isn't it.
  • Emphasis on the iPod touch. Which makes sense: I own two, for example, because they're a lot cheaper than laptops and more portable than DVD players when you want to keep entertained on a plane. But that's just me. If anything, the problem here is that iPod touch content--i.e. movies sold and rented from the iTunes Store--is not exactly flying off the shelf. In fact, this content has been notably poor selling for Apple and everyone else.
  • The Mac. This one I agree with. People who have positive iPod experiences naturally look to the Mac the next time they need a PC upgrade, and many of them like what they see there as well. I do not agree that Microsoft has "fumbled" the launch of Windows Vista, however. That is all perception that was driven by the media. Windows Vista has sold at a rate higher than its predecessor, and it has done so without any mathematical gymnastics: After one year on the market, 10 percent of the installed base was running Vista. That's higher than was the case with XP. So much for perception. But then perception often drives reality. And as Hassell repeats this bit of "untruthiness," it too becomes part of the body of "evidence" (such as it is these days) that drives people's buying decisions. And if people perceive that Vista is a flop--even when it isn't, not really--then they will consider a Mac even more.

Interesting post no matter how you shake it. Please do read the whole thing.

Comments

 

How Apple Is Preparing for an iPod Slump said:

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April 25, 2008 9:08 AM
 

Ocean said:

the iTunes Store definitely produces money for Apple.  Assuming they keep .30 cents of every dollar made:

>> iTunes Store music sales are growing — fast. Apple announced the two-billionth song sold just six months earlier. Even if the acceleration stops, which it won’t soon, Apple is already selling two billion songs per year, for $600 million in revenue.

And, as if that weren’t enough, I suspect Apple makes a nice chunk of change on the other $.70 of each song sold. Assuming Apple issues payments to the record labels only periodically — weekly, monthly, quarterly — Apple gets to hold onto that money in the interim, during which time they earn interest on it. It doesn’t require a high interest rate to make a lot of money on two billion dollars flowing through your hands.

.<<

daringfireball.net/.../more_amazon_mp3_store

April 25, 2008 9:25 AM
 

Ocean said:

So once again, Paul is off, way off.  

>>The FAQ from TuneCore — a company that handles digital music distribution for copyright holders — lists the royalty rates paid by online music stores, including iTunes:

   For the iTunes U.S. store, you receive $0.70 per song sold individually and $7.00 per album with 11 or more songs sold in its entirety.<<

www.tunecore.com/.../faq

and the link above...

Yes, iTMS makes money for Apple.

April 25, 2008 9:37 AM
 

weedmonk said:

iTunes, there’s a wonder that I can’t understand. $881 million spent on music most of which is DRM"d. Honestly, I've yet to run into someone who pays for music online.

April 25, 2008 10:09 AM
 

Auras said:

@Ocean: of course, Paul is to blame for Saul Hansell figures...

April 25, 2008 10:32 AM
 

joe-dokes said:

Well Weedmonk,

I'm not surprised.  Let's see the iPod/iTunes ecosystem offers a seamless way to manage a huge music collection and buy virtually any song you could ever want.  Without the hassle of buying points or other BS.  

I would prefer no DRM at all, but the DRM on iTunes is about as non intrusive as you're going to get, and finally it is really easy to buy a song.

For example, I have a student named Veronica who had never heard the Elvis Costello song "Veronica."  99 cents later she heard it.  That ability to capture the impulse buy is the power of iTunes.

As far as potential profits, I'm convinced that Apple is making very much.  They give about 70 cents from each sale to the record company, leaving 29 cents to pay for the servers, the bandwidth, the upkeep etc.  Most analysts put their gross profit at 4 to 5 cents per song.  That's 50 Million in profit per billion songs, not unsubstantial but hardly huge in a multi billion dollar company like Apple.

Finally, as for your comment that you've never met anyone who has paid for money online, this is not a surprise considering you're a 22 year old living in your mother's basement hanging out with tards who text words like kewl.

Regards

Joe Dokes

April 25, 2008 10:37 AM
 

BrightrevCarl said:

@weedmonk

I pay for music online.  Paul Thurrott has repeatedly said he does too.  I suppose you haven't actually run into either of us, but there are plenty of people who pay for music online.

April 25, 2008 10:38 AM
 

DarkSages said:

Well I got to say that even do the Zune is not the greatest nor the other competitor products. I wonder if they have anything to do with the slow sells of iPods. Also people are staring to realize that iTunes music quality is a Joke. For the same price I can by at Amazon or even the zune marketplace at MP3 format no DRM with 256kb quality or higher. Another problem is that apple has sold just to many iPhones, most people who got one I would not think they would pay for just another iPod. I love my ipod touch but I got to say I bought the zune as my portable gym player and it's great and I also have a iPod nano that just sits there sometimes I use it for Audible but soon the Zune will have that also. I do hate that Microsoft seems to ignor the zune but I am hoping that this Christmas another update but I don't care as long as my music works on it and no DRM. I think over all Microsoft has some trick up it's sleeve.

April 25, 2008 10:43 AM
 

pthurrott said:

Ocean, Apple has publicly admitted that they basically don't make money from the iTunes Store. It doesn't lose money any more but it doesn't contribute in any substantial way to the company's bottom line.

April 25, 2008 10:55 AM
 

pthurrott said:

Yeah, I buy lots of music online, actually. Mostly from Amazon these days, because of the MP3 thing. But I also rent movies from iTunes fairly regularly and so on.

April 25, 2008 10:56 AM
 

pthurrott said:

DarkSages ... I doubt zune has anything to do with the slowing of iPod sales. As I noted before, these things have to plateau at some point. I mean, eventually everyone who wants/needs an iPod has one. But I don't see any evidence that Zune or anyone else is making big headway in this market either.

April 25, 2008 10:58 AM
 

MaryW said:

@DarkSages

" I wonder if they(Zunes) have anything to do with the slow sells of iPods"

Doubt it! They are still not available outside the US. Also I find it a little suspicious that there have been no NPD figures since the release of Zune 2. I am sure if it was selling well someone would have mentioned it.

"Another problem is that apple has sold just to many iPhones"

Yes. That's a pretty bad 'problem'.

April 25, 2008 11:03 AM
 

DarkSages said:

pthurrott -

"DarkSages ... I doubt zune has anything to do with the slowing of iPod sales. As I noted before, these things have to plateau at some point. I mean, eventually everyone who wants/needs an iPod has one. But I don't see any evidence that Zune or anyone else is making big headway in this market either"

I new that but just threw it out there my main point is that the company is doing so good with the iPhones that they have sold so many that it's hard to find some one with out an iPod/iPhone. I'm not saying this is a problem for apple they are making money, the problem would be now trying to sell ipods to a market saturated by them. The only way for them to sell I would say if for them to come up with something new like the itouch but more afordable.

April 25, 2008 11:22 AM
 

DarkSages said:

Not related to the iPod but i thought it was interesting I wonder if the same exploit works on itouch/iPhone.

www.boygeniusreport.com/.../os-x-first-os-to-be-hacked-in-pwn-2-own-contest

"What do you get when you hold a contest and offer up $10,000 and a free laptop to the first person to hack an OS? You get a MacBook Air hacked in two minutes flat. Yesterday was day two of the CanSecWest security conference’s PWN 2 OWN hacking contest and Charlie Miller made quick work of Apple’s super-slim notebook. Ok, so maybe Miller really took a day and two minutes, but he still landed himself a sweet prize thanks to some solid hackery. The OSes involved? Mac OS X, Windows Vista and Linux. Day one of the competition was very uneventful. The rules stipulated that on day one of the competition, contestants were only permitted to attempt attacks over the network. On day two things turned around when contests were allowed to instruct contest organizers to visit a web page or open an email. Within two minutes Miller had prepared his exploit code and instructed organizers to visit a web site. Game over. Miller had seized control of the MacBook Air and landed himself a nice prize, seemingly using a hole in Safari as contestants were only permitted to take advantage of preinstalled software. Interestingly, no contestant was able to get into the Vista or Linux boxes during all of Wednesday or Thursday. Today, the last day of the competition, hackers will be permitted to exploit thrid-party applications installed on the computers. TippingPoint’s Manager of Security Response Terri Forslof, predicts that contestants will make quick work of the systems today as a result."

April 25, 2008 11:30 AM
 

Ocean said:

>>Ocean, Apple has publicly admitted that they basically don't make money from the iTunes Store. It doesn't lose money any more but it doesn't contribute in any substantial way to the company's bottom line.<<

It's black or white Paul.  Either they gain, break even, or lose.

The even money is on gain.  There's advantages of course in not saying so...they avoid the anger of the labels.

The key in your sentence is the word 'basically'.

April 25, 2008 11:50 AM
 

cesjr said:

"Emphasis on the iPod touch. Which makes sense: I own two, for example, because they're a lot cheaper than laptops and more portable than DVD players when you want to keep entertained on a plane. But that's just me. If anything, the problem here is that iPod touch content--i.e. movies sold and rented from the iTunes Store--is not exactly flying off the shelf."

the problem with Paul's analysis (there's always a problem with Paul's analysis)  is that he's acting as if the only thing the iPod touch offers over previous ipods is the widescreen video playing feature.  That's obviously completely wrong -

how about - web browser? email? calendar and contacts (where you can make entries)

And soon - gaming

and every type of mobile app imaginable.

Nice try Paul.  bzzzt.  try again

April 25, 2008 11:55 AM
 

brandon.pope said:

@cesjr

Paul didn't say that was the ONLY thing the touch brings to the table, he said (well actually Saul Hansell said) that that is the main reason he is interested in the iPod touch.  Having an interest in one specific feature doesn't mean he is slamming everything else the device does.  Lighten up... geez...

And lets not kid ourselves here.  The email/browser functions on the touch are limited to where you have wifi, and are not nearly as useful as they same features on the iPhone connected to a cellular network.  Those hit or miss features are definitely out shined by the widescreen video capabilities, so I would said Saul was right on the money.

April 25, 2008 1:01 PM
 

launch » Blog Archive » How Apple Is Preparing for an iPod Slump said:

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April 25, 2008 1:08 PM
 

chole said:

It appears that some of you are mixing up what Saul Hansell wrote with Paul here.

Interesting article though, I for one enjoyed it atleast.

April 25, 2008 1:15 PM
 

Lindy said:

Reality...

1.) People that own iPods buy music online.  Weedmonk, only IT geeks dont buy music online or are the main group that does not.  Of the 10million iPods sold in that last quarter I would say that 9.9345 million are not IT people, just music lovers that are looking for a product that works.

2.) The Zune has had Zero impact on anything.  Except perhaps the red ink at MS.

3.) Things are slowing down because......its saturated plain and simple.  Apple has sold how many iPods?  100 million?  More?  at some point you can only have so many.  My house has 4 right now, they wont be getting me to buy another until one of them goes south or it cant fulfill its needs.

April 25, 2008 1:15 PM
 

Cfischer83 said:

I refuse to buy anything off of iTunes. I buy my DRM-free stuff from Amazon!

April 25, 2008 1:34 PM
 

Iphone » re: How Apple Is Preparing for an iPod Slump said:

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April 25, 2008 1:51 PM
 

tristanh said:

The bottom line is that MOST people who want an iPod have one.  Right now the market is saturated and so it is slowing.  I think that as time passes Apple will introduce something even better than what it offers now and that coupled with ageing iPods will cause people to buy new ones and we will see the market go back up again.

The iTunes store as I see it is a nice plus.  Apple keeps it there because many people do use it and it is very easy to use and they can use it as a selling point.  However, to think that they keep it there because they are making bags and bags of money off of it is rediculous.  It does well enough to stay in the black but that's about it... and for Apple that's all it expects out of it.

April 25, 2008 1:58 PM
 

Waethorn said:

"only IT geeks dont buy music online or are the main group that does not.  Of the 10million iPods sold in that last quarter I would say that 9.9345 million are not IT people"

absolutely 100% WRONG!

P2P is still prevalent.  It's the #1 source of spyware and adware on Windows machines (also the platform for the greatest source of iPod owners btw).  There's even stats saying that people, on average, only buy 22 songs per iPod.  i can confidently say that the average 4GB iPod Nano has WAAAAY more than 22 songs on it.  if you want to dispute that, you're a fool.

April 25, 2008 2:09 PM
 

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April 25, 2008 2:50 PM
 

Ipod » Blog Archive » launch ?? Blog Archive ?? How Apple Is Preparing for an iPod Slump said:

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April 25, 2008 3:25 PM
 

book » Blog Archive » re: How Apple Is Preparing for an iPod Slump said:

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April 25, 2008 3:37 PM
 

Lindy said:

@Waethorn

Apple reportedly sold 20 million tracks on Christmas day 2007, and has sold over 4billion tracks since it came out.  People buy music from iTunes.

Do people put music on their iPods that was not bought from iTunes?  Sure all the time.

That said is it  more likely Joe User, non IT person, if they were to buy new music, would it be a CD then rip it via iTunes, or from Amazon and then get iTunes to see it, or buy it from iTunes.  

I am going to say if Joe User is actually (non IT) is actually going to buy music for their iPod they are going to buy it from iTunes these days.  They buy it, it gets dropped into their library in iTunes, they sync it.  I know many "joe users" that do this.  Why????

1.) Its simple/easy.  Joe User likes simple.  They see a computer as a means to an end, not some geek toy.  In this case they want to listen to music.

2.) They dont care about bit rate.  Geeks and audiophiles do.  I would bet 99% of people could not tell the difference when listening to a 128bit song vs whatever on a iPod with the default buds.

3.) They dont care about DRM.  If they are buying then they dont care.  Hell Joe User could not even tell you where the actual music files are on the hard drive, what format they are in or if they have DRM or not.  They DONT CARE.

Joe User makes up 90% or more of iPod owners these days.

April 25, 2008 3:51 PM
 

tristanh said:

@Lindy

You're right, Joe User doesn't care about all the things you mentioned and does make up a huge percentage of iPod owners.  I agree that if these users are going to BUY thier music it will be from the iTunes store.

However, as a high school teacher the majority of my students have iPods and listening to thier converstaions the vast majority of them download thier music from Limewire.  These students are some of the Joe Users you are talking about.

This however wasn't the point of the post to begin with.  The point is that iPod sells are slumping but Apple seems to be preparing for it quite well.  The comment on the iTunes store is that it's not a money maker for them, and I don't really see how anybody can dispute that when Apple even says so.

April 25, 2008 4:16 PM
 

Lindy said:

Yes lots of music, probably the vast majority, is stolen/copied and in that case they would not buy it from iTunes or any other place.  The younger more tech savy are more inclined to do this.  

Sadly most think there is nothing wrong with it.

April 25, 2008 4:28 PM
 

chole said:

@Waethorn:

"There's even stats saying that people, on average, only buy 22 songs per iPod.  i can confidently say that the average 4GB iPod Nano has WAAAAY more than 22 songs on it.  if you want to dispute that, you're a fool."

Anything but this! This is an average, it doesn't mean that people have some purcahsed music and the majority of everything else on their iPod is pirated.

I just so happen to have a Blue 2nd gen 4gig iPod Nano. I have purchased 2,025 songs off of the iTMS over the course of four years. However, I currently have 643 of those songs on my Nano. Imagine that, songs on my iPod don't don't match the songs in my music collection. How exactly are you drawing a conclusion from any of those stats when they only tell you what's on the MP3 player? What's in my MP3 player certainly does not match what's in my full collection.

You cannot use the MP3 player to represent the amount of music someone has purchased or have not purchased. Moreover, to represent who actually is purchasing music and who isn't.

For example: Joe smoe next to me has 2,000 P2P downloaded songs on his iPod, not purchased. I only have 643 on my iPod, purchased. Draw an average of the two, and songs purchased per iPod is low and one could suggest that the majority of music floating around out there is pirated (this is exactly what's wrong with the 22 songs per Nano so-called 'stats') In reality though, I have more purchased music than Joe smoe does. Yet the stats suggest the complete opposite. If you want to make a strong argument, you may want to take a different position. Songs purchased per iPod is very sketch. Especially these days, with video content and all. What's actually on someone's iPod in no way represents their music collection and how much of it is purchased.

Too many variables that are just thrown in together, or completely left out. It means nothing to real users like me who know how waterey those stats are.

April 25, 2008 5:12 PM
 

johnpapola said:

Funny.  No commentary on Microsoft's 11% decline y-o-y in Windows client sales on this site so far.  Gee... I wonder why.  I guess that's not very "super" news.

Talking about iPod "slumps" though sure is I guess.  Never mind that the iPod has managed to grow (albeit by only 1%) year-over-year during a serious economic downturn where consumer confidence and credit have been hammered.

That Apple's sales grew in this market is amazing.  That Microsoft's fell while the rest of the PC business did well is very curious... and I'd like to think a reasonable subject for the "Supersite for Windows".

April 25, 2008 5:28 PM
 

DRWAM said:

I would think that the economy is slowing the sale of everything, so why not iPods or Windows upgrades? BTW, Jobs admitted that "iTunes basically makes no revenue." Of course, that was over a year ago.

April 25, 2008 7:23 PM
 

Dipsh t Admin said:

John, while you might be right, but posting about Windows in a article that has nothing to do about it?  Fail.  You try to make it out to seem like you're the good guy a lot John, and not just a troll, but time and time again I see stuff like this.

April 25, 2008 10:55 PM
 

Ipod » Blog Archive » book ?? Blog Archive ?? re: How Apple Is Preparing for an iPod Slump said:

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April 26, 2008 1:54 AM
 

Ipod » Blog Archive » Ipod ?? Blog Archive ?? book ?? Blog Archive ?? re: How Apple Is… said:

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April 26, 2008 6:56 AM
 

johnpapola said:

Dipsht,

"Fail".  Heh.  Re-read Paul's post, my fellow Jersey brother.

"I do not agree that Microsoft has "fumbled" the launch of Windows Vista, however. That is all perception that was driven by the media. Windows Vista has sold at a rate higher than its predecessor, and it has done so without any mathematical gymnastics"

Sure looks like Paul provided more than enough for me to legitimately question Windows sales performance this quarter within this post as it relates to Apple's performance.

This is "The Supersite for Windows".  And here we are, after Apple unveils a stellar quarter amid near-recession, and what do we get?  "How Apple is preparing for an iPod slump".  No mention so far of Microsoft's actual DECLINE this quarter.  Heaven forbid there's a possibility that Apple's 2nd highest quarter selling macs actually had an impact on Microsoft's bottom line!  Why, that would mean Paul's endless use of the word "irrelevant" would be revealed for what it is: a biased, baseless dig at mac users.

Now, I'll agree with Paul that there are plenty of Koolaid-drinking Mac fanatics that exaggerate what the Mac is capable of doing, marketshare-wise.  But Paul is equally guilty of trying to marginalize it's legitimate success and "relevance" with his rain-man obsession with world-wide share.

I'll happily concede that essentially I am a troll, given that I'm a mac user and this is a windows site.  Fine.  It's a guilty nerd pleasure to debate here.  I just can't help but point out obvious editorial bias from someone who claims again and again to be "objective" and "even-handed".

Do you really have such a problem with that?

April 26, 2008 7:31 AM
 

DRWAM said:

I'm OK with that. I guess that this is a popular NJ site. Personall, since I use both platforms [typing in VISTA right now] I have found very useful info for both platforms here. But being an opitmist, I read more praise from Paul about Macs than otherwise, although he likes to call them out. But his irreverrent atitude toward aall things technical shines through for all 3 platforms, mostly because he is more of a consumer advocate. I think he's a good watchdog, but even watch dogs have their favorite toys. Overall, great site, good news, and help sometimes. I give it 3 and a half Jersey Devils out of 4.

April 26, 2008 8:06 AM
 

library » Blog Archive » re: How Apple Is Preparing for an iPod Slump said:

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April 26, 2008 9:53 AM
 

Waethorn said:

"Yes lots of music, probably the vast majority, is stolen/copied and in that case they would not buy it from iTunes or any other place."

see?  even you can't argue rationally.  you're just contradicting an earlier statement you made:

"That said is it  more likely Joe User, non IT person, if they were to buy new music, would it be a CD then rip it via iTunes, or from Amazon and then get iTunes to see it, or buy it from iTunes."

But this one just takes the cake:

"Joe smoe next to me has 2,000 P2P downloaded songs on his iPod, **not purchased**. I only have 643 on my iPod, purchased.  Draw an average of the two, and songs purchased per iPod is low and one could suggest that the majority of music floating around out there is pirated [this makes absolutely no sense, but whatever]....**In reality though, I have more purchased music than Joe smoe does. YET THE STATS SUGGEST THE COMPLETE OPPOSITE**"

LOL!!

that's called the AppleField(TM), boys and girls.

April 26, 2008 10:24 AM
 

library » Blog Archive » library ?? Blog Archive ?? re: How Apple Is Preparing for an iPod Slump said:

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April 26, 2008 10:58 AM
 

Ipod » Blog Archive » Ipod ?? Blog Archive ?? book ?? Blog Archive ?? re: How Apple Is … said:

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April 26, 2008 11:30 AM
 

Ipod » Blog Archive » Ipod ?? Blog Archive ?? Ipod ?? Blog Archive ?? book ?? Blog Archive … said:

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April 26, 2008 11:30 AM
 

launch » Blog Archive » re: How Apple Is Preparing for an iPod Slump said:

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April 26, 2008 11:47 AM
 

Ipod » Blog Archive » library ?? Blog Archive ?? re: How Apple Is Preparing for an iPod Slump said:

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April 26, 2008 11:55 AM
 

chole said:

@Waethorn:

I'll highlight what you intentionally missed for you:

----

I have purchased 2,025 songs off of the iTMS over the course of four years. However, I currently have 643 of those songs on my Nano. Imagine that, songs on my iPod don't don't match the songs in my music collection. How exactly are you drawing a conclusion from any of those stats when they only tell you what's on the MP3 player? What's in my MP3 player certainly does not match what's in my full collection.

You cannot use the MP3 player to represent the amount of music someone has purchased or have not purchased. Moreover, to represent who actually is purchasing music and who isn't.

----

"that's called the AppleField(TM), boys and girls."

That's called you have no rebuttal(TM). Not a single response to my argument, only poking fun at a hypothetical situation I threw in there. That's Waethorn yeilding(TM), boys and girls.

April 26, 2008 12:54 PM
 

Ipod » Blog Archive » Ipod ?? Blog Archive ?? Ipod ?? Blog Archive ?? Ipod ?? Blog Archive… said:

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April 26, 2008 1:33 PM
 

Lindy said:

@Waethorn  let me suggest www.rif.org  it will greatly help you with the rest of your life.

You quoted me and let me get that for you again.

"That said is it  more likely Joe User, non IT person, if they were to buy new music, would it be a CD then rip it via iTunes, or from Amazon and then get iTunes to see it, or buy it from iTunes."

The words "IF THEY WERE TO BUY MUSIC" are the key to my statement.  If firmly believe that at this point time if you are a joe user iPod owner and IF YOU WERE GOING TO BUY MUSIC you would go with iTunes.

I really hope that is clear enough for you?

If you not going pay for music as in buy music, but acquire it then its probably stolen/copied.

This is not a contradiction.  People buy music from iTunes.  I see you did respond to the fact that 20million songs were sold in Christmas day 2007, or that iTunes has sold 4 billion tracks total.

I know facts sometimes hurt, its ok, it really is.

April 26, 2008 1:51 PM
 

Ipod » Blog Archive » Ipod ?? Blog Archive ?? library ?? Blog Archive ?? re: How Apple Is said:

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April 26, 2008 1:56 PM
 

Waethorn said:

"That's called you have no rebuttal"

no, that's called you have no argument.

"I know facts sometimes hurt, its ok, it really is."

i'm glad you see it my way.  sorry for hurting your feelings.

April 26, 2008 2:52 PM
 

johnpapola said:

Chole & Lindy,

Don't waste another word trying to debate with Waethorn.  He's a hard head and argues like a 13 year old.  He'll ignore any point that's clearly been well made and zero in on something very specific, and usually tangential.  Just look at this response above me.  Vacuous, childish nonsense.  At least Dipsht, DRWAM are good Jersey boys that know how to engage in adult conversation and have the confidence and reasonability to admit when you make a fair point.

Have a great weekend.

April 26, 2008 3:43 PM
 

Ipod » Blog Archive » launch ?? Blog Archive ?? re: How Apple Is Preparing for an iPod Slump said:

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April 26, 2008 8:55 PM
 

Ipod » Blog Archive » Ipod ?? Blog Archive ?? library ?? Blog Archive ?? re: How Apple Is … said:

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April 26, 2008 8:55 PM
 

Ipod » Blog Archive » Ipod ?? Blog Archive ?? Ipod ?? Blog Archive ?? library ?? Blog … said:

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April 26, 2008 8:55 PM
 

launch » Blog Archive » launch ?? Blog Archive ?? re: How Apple Is Preparing for an iPod Slump said:

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April 26, 2008 9:41 PM
 

library » Blog Archive » Ipod ?? Blog Archive ?? Ipod ?? Blog Archive ?? library ?? Blog … said:

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April 26, 2008 10:11 PM
 

Ipod » Blog Archive » Ipod ?? Blog Archive ?? launch ?? Blog Archive ?? re: How Apple Is … said:

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April 27, 2008 6:25 AM
 

Ipod » Blog Archive » launch ?? Blog Archive ?? launch ?? Blog Archive ?? re: How Apple Is … said:

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April 27, 2008 6:29 AM
 

launch » Blog Archive » Ipod ?? Blog Archive ?? launch ?? Blog Archive ?? re: How Apple Is … said:

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April 27, 2008 10:43 AM
 

Perception, initiative and reality » MetaCatholic said:

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April 27, 2008 2:22 PM
 

launch » Blog Archive » Ipod ?? Blog Archive ?? launch ?? Blog Archive ?? launch ?? Blog … said:

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April 27, 2008 5:06 PM
 

launch » Blog Archive » launch ?? Blog Archive ?? Ipod ?? Blog Archive ?? launch ?? Blog … said:

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April 27, 2008 5:06 PM
 

launch » Blog Archive » launch ?? Blog Archive ?? Ipod ?? Blog Archive ?? launch ?? Blog … said:

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April 27, 2008 5:06 PM
 

Ipod » Blog Archive » Ipod ?? Blog Archive ?? launch ?? Blog Archive ?? launch ?? Blog … said:

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April 27, 2008 5:33 PM
 

Ipod » Blog Archive » launch ?? Blog Archive ?? Ipod ?? Blog Archive ?? launch ?? Blog … said:

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April 27, 2008 5:33 PM
 

Ipod » Blog Archive » Ipod ?? Blog Archive ?? Ipod ?? Blog Archive ?? launch ?? Blog … said:

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April 27, 2008 6:01 PM
 

launch » Blog Archive » Ipod ?? Blog Archive ?? Ipod ?? Blog Archive ?? launch ?? Blog … said:

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April 27, 2008 7:50 PM
 

Waethorn said:

Chole & Lindy

don't bother listening to the pap - he likes going on and on about nothing in particular, if only to have words of his own to read when he has time in between making IN. YOUR. FACE. commercials for the "Star Trek, Baywatch, & CSI Rerun Channel" (aka Spike TV).

April 27, 2008 10:23 PM
 

jeffsters said:

I have no real issue with the article or Paul's comments. All markets eventually move into a "sustaining" mode where the rise in sales and revenue begins to moderate and slow. This is when companies revise and extend products or replace them with new ones.  Apple has been and will continue to do that.  This hasn't been effected by the Zune so much as this market saturation has effected the Zune.  Had the Zune come out two or three years after the iPod things may have been different. But the market has slowed and for a new device to break through and rise it needs to extend the product not just be on parity (forgetting the tame  Wi-Fi feature for a min). Zune entered a saturated market with a product that, even if you allow the favorable comparison, wasn't that much better!  In a slowing/declining market that's just not going to work. As we have seen...

April 28, 2008 10:37 AM

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