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Go figure ... Joel doesn't get Live Mesh

While I agree with part of Joel Spolsky's take on Live Mesh, overall it's pretty clear he just doesn't get it:

Ray Ozzie's big achievement arrives and what is it? (drumroll...) Microsoft Live Mesh. The future of everything. Microsoft is "moving into the cloud."

And what is this Windows Live Mesh?

It's a way to synchronize files.

But Windows Live Mesh is not just a way to synchronize files. That's just the sample app. It's a whole goddamned architecture, with an API and developer tools and in insane diagram showing all the nifty layers of acronyms, and it seems like the chief astronauts at Microsoft literally expect this to be their gigantic platform in the sky which will take over when Windows becomes irrelevant on the desktop. And synchronizing files is supposed to be, like, the equivalent of Microsoft Write on Windows 1.0.

Which it is. Anyway...

It's Groove, rewritten from scratch, one more time. Ray Ozzie just can't stop rewriting this damn app, again and again and again, and taking 5-7 years each time.

This I agree with. As Leo and I discussed with Mary Jo Foley on "Windows Weekly" today, Ozzie does seem to be revisiting the past a bit here.

But if you really believe that Live Mesh folder sync is indeed a rehashing of Groove, and Notes, and whatever else Ozzie has done in the past, I'd at least point out this one salient fact: Live Mesh folder sync is, as he says above, just a tiny, single application running on top of the Live Mesh platform. So what Ozzie has done, using Splotsky's logic, is recreate Groove ... as the smallest freaking applet running on the new platform he's creating. That's far more impressive than this little junior high school rant is making it sound.

The fact that customers never asked for this feature and none of the earlier versions really took off as huge platforms doesn't stop him.

Yawn. No one was "asking for" the iPod either, a product that, by the way, simply copied liberally from what came before.

Having actually used Live Mesh--no offense--I can say that the services first two features--folder sync and remote desktop--aren't just useful, they're pretty darn critical. They're already part of my daily workflow. I wasn't asking for either one either, exactly. But now that they're here, I don't want them taken away. That's how you can tell how useful and valuable something is.

How on earth does Microsoft continue to pour massive resources into building the same frigging synchronization platforms again and again? Damn, they just finished building something called Windows Live FolderShare and I haven't exactly noticed a stampede to that. I'll bet you've never even heard of it.

The reason you've never heard of it is that, a) Microsoft hasn't "finished building" FolderShare and that, b) it's still in beta. It is, in fact, the basis for the folder sync feature in Live Mesh. Hey, turns out you have heard of it. But you're the expert.

Here's my favorite part.

It sort of bothers me, intellectually, that there are these people running around acting like they're building the next great thing who keep serving us the same exact TV dinner that I didn't want on Sunday night, and I didn't want it when you tried to serve it again Monday night, and you crunched it up and mixed in some cheese and I didn't eat that Tuesday night, and here it is Wednesday and you've rebuilt the whole goddamn TV dinner industry from the ground up and you're giving me 1955 salisbury steak that I just DON'T WANT.

The people? They love twitter. And flickr and delicious and picasa and tripit and ebay and a million other fun things...

Really? Is that what "the people" love? Twitter? Tripit? Come on.

For those keeping score at home, the goal of Live Mesh is to bring together heterogeneous devices and services in a way that makes sense for users. Why maintain different personas on a hundred different social networking sites, e-commerce sites, online photo albums, and other Web sites? Why maintain different contact lists, different ways of accessing the same information? Etc.

Sounds like something a lot of people might want. Even if they haven't heard of it. Yet.

Comments

 

matt.brown said:

Ditto on the Live Mesh becoming a critical app, though unlike your experience, it is actually something that I've wanted for quite some time. I was hoping that Office Live would have done this, but it didn't, so I haven't found Office Live particularly useful my needs. It is simply nice to know that if I typed a paper for school and was boneheaded and left it on the counter at home, that all I have to do is log into Mesh at school and reprint it instead of what I used to do (if I wise enough to do it): either e-mail it to myself or copy it to a flash drive, neither of which is convenient.

And I may not be with the latest generation of thought, but I'm just not amused by the language that this guy uses. I'm actually rather offended. Do people feel that they have to sound like morons to stand out in the crowd? I bet he doesn't like Vista either. Would love to read that article.

May 1, 2008 4:07 PM
 

jmoo2 said:

As you mentioned Paul, once you start using it you can't live without it!

And I think there is a great potential to extend it to "sync" OS and App settings so new installs become a lot easier, integrate with Office & Live Services so you can have one set of Contacts, Events, etc.

It's even useful for when I go on vacation. I can access my files or my actual computers from any machine without having to install anything. Plus I can free up room on my camera's memory card (and at the same time backing them up to all my machines) by uploading the photo's to the Live Desktop.

Mesh has both great enterprise and consumer benefits and I can't wait to see what MS does with it.

James

May 1, 2008 6:03 PM
 

mikegalos@msn.com said:

Some folks get it (Paul) and some just can't see beyond the paradigm that they grew up in (Joel)

As I said in my blog, Live Mesh seems to be a great way to see which writers understand new concepts and which would have seen the PC in the 1970s as, at best, a fancy terminal.

May 1, 2008 6:20 PM
 

Adobaw said:

I'm all the way here in Accra Ghana and I get Live Mesh. I use it when I'm at work which is a Linux machine through my browser to get stuff done and it has only been a week and it makes my life easier.

May 1, 2008 6:55 PM
 

Lindy said:

Lol its VERY easy not to get it, because right now there is not much to get.

Its WAYYYYYYYYY to early to praise this offering yet.  Currently its not impressive or more impressive than offerings already out there.  Its promise is impressive, but so were many offerings from MS.

Right now it looks like nothing more than a webshare, RDP and synctoy blued together with a cheesy Vista like GUI.

May 1, 2008 9:05 PM
 

drylight said:

"Really? Is that what "the people" love? Twitter? Tripit? Come on"

Yes, really. And no one likes the thing Microsoft does when it copies these types of things. They are seen as lame and seriously uncool.

May 2, 2008 2:20 AM
 

Flenser said:

If I had access to Live Mesh now I'd be considering whether to use it to synchronise Microsoft Office documents instead of using Google Docs for having access to my documents and spreadsheets anywhere.

I have a particular problem with having to visit a client's site where I don't get internet access and I'm currently going to use Google Docs offline access to get round that, but Mesh would be a viable alternative.

However, even though there are some features of Excel I miss in Google Spreadsheets I think I'll probably stick with Google because of it's collaboration features and it's revision history which make it much easier to see what changes have been made to a spreadsheet.

So Mesh won't see me returning to the Office fold, but I will still find plenty of uses for it and can't wait to try it out.

May 2, 2008 4:22 AM
 

lotsamystuff said:

Joel Splosky = "little junior high school rant"?

Pot, meet kettle.

May 2, 2008 7:11 AM
 

Dew Drop - May 2, 2008 | Alvin Ashcraft's Morning Dew said:

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May 2, 2008 8:12 AM
 

johnpapola said:

"And I think there is a great potential to extend it to "sync" OS and App settings so new installs become a lot easier, integrate with Office & Live Services so you can have one set of Contacts, Events, etc."

I've been doing app pref sync since november with Leopard and .mac sync and for years prior on most other settings.  App preferences, system keychains for all passwords, contacts, calendars, to-dos, widgets, dock layout, mail accounts, notes and any third party apps that plug in all sync.  It's an API that's fully extensible by third parties.

I do a fresh install of a new system, run sync, and it's as if I'm sitting at my fully customized machine.

Not to take away from what mesh could become, and .mac is very client-centric with a fairly weak web UI, but let's not treat this like some brand new revolution, shall we?

May 2, 2008 8:35 AM
 

pthurrott said:

John P: What's in Live Mesh right now isn't a "brand new revolution." But unlike .Mac, it is free. And unlike .Mac, and anything Google is doing, it's also just the start of a complete platform. And that is, in many ways, a brand new revolution.

May 2, 2008 9:47 AM
 

johnpapola said:

Mesh has alot of promise.  And I agree with you (from the podcast) that Ray Ozzie offers a new era for Microsoft where monopoly-maintenance and window-centric (or perhaps hobbled) strategy seems to be going away.

But it's hard to deny the history here.  Microsoft has a history of rolling out grand-vision platforms to solve everything all at once.  Hailstorm, .net, playsforsure, etc.  And they have often missed the trees for the forest in execution of product-level solutions.

If they can maintain focus, deliver quality execution and build on that, then we'll have something real to talk about.  But getting excited about the latest "platform" roll out is fundamentally pre-mature, I think.

I hope this is the beginning of a new era where Microsoft starts to interact with users and address user issues, instead of hiding behind OEMs and third parties.  It will serve them and the userbase well.  Cross-platform support is a real start of something.  I hope it's not the same old "embrace, extend, extinguish" strategy.

I'm open to a MS that becomes a good guy, instead of a market bully.  I hope for it.

May 2, 2008 11:06 AM
 

brostbeef said:

I just watched a Channel9 video demonstration of Live Mesh and I have to say it does offer a HUGE opportunity for developers.

I agree with johnpapola in that Microsoft now needs to maintain its focus and not make the system overly complex.

I think we'll have to wait to see what happens after the PDC conference.  See where Microsoft has taken the platform and where they will be going with it.

I'm excited.  I want to get on the old "bandwagon", but I really don't want the carpet pulled out from under my feet.

May 2, 2008 1:56 PM
 

johnpapola said:

brostbeef,

Indeed.  The carpet problem is huge.  Just look at smart displays, spot and playsforsure.  Build you business on top of microsoft platforms other than windows hasn't been a safe bet.  it just goes to show you how hard it is to get a platform to stick without a killer app.

May 2, 2008 4:04 PM
 

jeffsters said:

Paul, I wish I had your optimism.

I fear other vendors will resist simply because all these "free" sites are valued for the "data", the customer information, and relationship.  These different vendors want to own and control the user and their data.

This, while a great idea, l suspect it's headed where all those other "bring it all under one roof" initiatives went.  You remember them don't you?  Passport, Palladium?  The Microsoft, all in one, security solution to our multiple systems and technology issues you said in 2002 would "form the basis of next-generation computer systems"?

I just think in this case it extends into the business model of too many of the companies it will need to attract and these companies deeply fear another MS controlled technology.

What do you think?

May 3, 2008 1:22 PM
 

Adobaw said:

Has anyone used DesktopTwo (www.desktoptwo.com) before?  It is a free  Webtop developed by Sapotek  that mimics the look, feel and functionality of the desktop environment of an operating system. If you see how it has been developed and allows community members to create additional open source web applications you can see the potential that Mesh. Facebook allowing developers to create applications for its Social Networking Site. I'm a software developer and for years i've been trying to get People in Ghana to use software as a service long before Google bought Writely. In Africa open source and web based applications will soon take over since the disposable income is  relatively smaller than in the US. Such platforms give me ways to deploy applications to a much wider audience and will run in a web browser not forcing anyone to buy expensive hardware.

Let us hope the Mesh guys get it right it will be an awesome platform to develop on.

May 3, 2008 3:53 PM
 

Facebook » re: Go figure … Joel doesn’t get Live Mesh said:

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May 3, 2008 5:55 PM
 

Waethorn said:

"In Africa open source and web based applications will soon take over since the disposable income"

remember that "free" doesn't = "open source" (and vice versa).

May 3, 2008 6:27 PM
 

Rodrigo Kenobi said:

Well, I for one can't wait for when Microsoft opens it up. I coudn't subscribe in time to get into the 10.000 list of lucky ones.

May 4, 2008 9:07 AM
 

i like ellipses… » Can Subversion and Live Mesh Play Together? said:

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May 14, 2008 1:14 AM
 

Traveling to Save: How to Get Paid to Live Overseas ∞ Get Rich Slowly | GetLiveNet.Com said:

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July 16, 2008 2:11 AM

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Paul Thurrott is the guy behind the SuperSite for Windows. Way behind. :)
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