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"Put even more simply, the Zune--widely recognized as a complete failure after just 2 years on the market--is actually doing better in its market than the Mac--on the market for 24 years, or about 11 years since the return of Steve Jobs--is doing in its own market."

Wow Paul, only you could come up with that kind of analogy.

How about Nintendo DS lite has more market share after 2 years than Schwinn bikes have after 50 years.  The two are as related as Zune media players and "Mac" computers.

The Zune is ugly hardware.  The Zune social is a joke, The software is a joke.  The Zune store is a joke.  The third party support is a non-existent.

The Zune has grown market share because its got Microsoft attached to its name.  Even now the Microsoft name carries with it "big company" recognition.  Compared to Creative Labs, which no one outside the IT world would know, or the Sansa brand Microsoft is a huge name.

So in the "other category" for MP3/digital media players I would think that Microsoft/Zune would clean up.  My only question is why is it taking so long.  I would think by now if you were looking for that "other option" in a media player Zune would be king of that market.

I hope MS spend billions upon billions to get to 10%.  Its help the 360 almost beat out the PS2.

Come on Paul....A case of the pot calling the kettle black if I've ever read one.   :-)

What I find funny is you're comparing one of the worst MP3 players on the market to a successful computer platform. Desperate for Ad Revenue? There's no purpose to this story, you're blogging nonsense.

Watching to much Fox News lately Paul? You might consider being a writer for them since you have a knack for making stories out of nothing. You could sell the New England Patriots being raped at the Super Bowl at the eventual downfall of the Celtics/Red Sox as 9/11 x 1000.

Thin skin much?

As far as I know, the Zune is only sold in the US, so it would seem more appropriate to compare Apple's US market share, which is in the 6 to 6.5 percent range.  Apple essentially doesn't bother with the business market, so their share of the consumer PC market is even higher.  It's also silly to talk about market share without talking about growth, which has been pretty good for Apple in the last year or two.

I suppose that what I'm saying is - why criticize Wired for manipulating numbers while doing the same thing yourself?

Um... yeah... you guys are missing the point...

For one, Paul compared the Zune to the digital music player market, and the Mac to the computer market so his compairsons are solid.  He did not, as Lindy said, compare them to each other.

And its an interesting compairson at that.  Mac fanboys are thrilled with their HUGE gains in market share when it comes to the computer industry, but when MS makes a similar gain in a market that Apple controls they still get called a failure.

The only thing is this... be fair.  If Apple controlling 4-6 percent of the PC market is huge then so is MS controling 4-6 percent of the digital music player market.  It's that simple, but for some reason some people have to try to spin the facts.  Just get over it.

To Paul... thanks for always presenting fair and balanced commentary.

-- Tristan

Whats the PC worlds marketshare if we take business sales out?

Honest question, because Apple doesn't sell the iPod to businesses like Dell and HP sell PC's to businesses.

From Lindy:

"The Zune has grown market share because its got Microsoft attached to its name.  Even now the Microsoft name carries with it "big company" recognition.  Compared to Creative Labs, which no one outside the IT world would know, or the Sansa brand Microsoft is a huge name."

So... you mean like macs? The new apple mac customers are the so called "switchers" who have heard of macs from their ipods or iphones. So you have made a lousy point.

I hear ya but media bleat is not gonna change in the near future.

@Lindy

"

The Zune is ugly hardware.  The Zune social is a joke, The software is a joke.  The Zune store is a joke. "

iTards you gotta love 'em. They run to protect the virginity of Steve Jobs at the drop of a hat. I love this blog.

"As far as I know, the Zune is only sold in the US, so it would seem more appropriate to compare Apple's US market share, which is in the 6 to 6.5 percent range.  Apple essentially doesn't bother with the business market, so their share of the consumer PC market is even higher."  

Congratulations. Microsoft doesn't sell Zunes outside of the USA. Apple DOES Macs outside of the USA. Globally the Zune and Mac have about the same marketshare. Guess which one is going to have a higher marketshare in the USA? Is it the Zune? My bad, looked to me for a second like you were trying to convey the message that Paul was skewing the facts to make Zune look better.

"It's also silly to talk about market share without talking about growth, which has been pretty good for Apple in the last year or two."

Zune went from 0 to 4. Apple went from 2 to 3.3. Congratulations.

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weedmonk, my comment on the Zune being ugly is purely opinion, but I would wager that my opinion of its looks are not in the minority.

The rest of what you quoted me on is pretty much fact.  

The social is a failure.  I have never seen two Zunes near each other so the "social squirting" is not really happening.  MS had a window (before iTouch/iPhone) to do something with Wireless.  Wireless syncing should have been day one, plus Windows Mobile IE at a minimum.  But know they gave the world squirting.  The iTouch pretty much showed MS and the world what the wireless should do on a device like this.

The software is getting better but is still pretty lame in comparison to iTunes.  Version 1.0 was probably the worst piece of software ever made, and I pretty sure your messiah Paul said the same thing.  

The zune store, the smallest of all major players, uses MS points ???, but now has NBC TV shows....yawn wake me when they get way more content and I dont need Microsoft Money to buy content with.

Tristanh your right Paul did not compare the Zune to Mac's.  

However he could have compared the market share of the Zune to Tug Boat engine market share and it would have had the same relevance, which is none.  

He does it to get readers.  Lets just look at his comment returns.  He gets more than pingbacks if he jabs at Apple products.

I guess I am the fool, for fanning the flames and helping drive up the comments.

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It's funny how Apple fans don't respond to reason (the posts above that explained what Paul actually meant for those that are not able to comprehend on their own).

But what can we expect...Should have known in the first place.

Yes, the comparison is legitimate, and the blog post is legitimate, because it refers to the bias of Wired, which is clearly slanted towards Apple.  As in, they trumpet the same figures for Apple that they bash for Zune.

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If you define success purely by market share, then yes, there's a double standard. If you factor in a little thing called profit and market influence as well as market share %, then that changes things. Is the Zune making a profit? I can't tell from Microsoft's financial results because Zune results are lumped in with Xbox. If the Zune's 4% share points to profit or potential future profit that significantly contributes to Microsoft's bottomline, then yes, the Zune has a done a remarkable job. Is Apple's 4% market share with the Mac remarkable given the 20+ year history of the Mac? No. Is it remarkable in the context of recent success (and profit) and facing an even more entrenched PC market? Yes.

" Apple essentially doesn't bother with the business market, so their share of the consumer PC market is even higher."

They would like to bother with it, but they cant figure out how...

"MS had a window (before iTouch/iPhone) to do something with Wireless.  Wireless syncing should have been day one.."

Unless I missed something the iPhone/iTouch still don't do wireless syncing, so MS is actually one up in that category even with the release of two of Apple's wireless devices.

"Version 1.0 was probably the worst piece of software ever made, and I pretty sure your messiah Paul said the same thing.  "

Yes, V1 was very, very bad.  V2, well I would actually say that the experience on WIndows is way better than the broken ITunes experience on windows.  Now, I use a Mac mainly, so iTunes works fine for me, but on my Vista machine, iTunes is garbage.  I was so excited to use the Zune software instead of iTunes even though I don't own a Zune.  

"The zune store.... yawn..."

I would like to see the content the iTunes store had when it was only 2 years young.  These things take time because the record labels move slow.  At least the marketplace is trying to get DRM free tracks out there.  

"However he could have compared the market share of the Zune to Tug Boat engine market share and it would have had the same relevance, which is none."

.... uhhhh......

@Paul...

With all due respect, the tone of this Wired post is precisely how you often come across regarding Apple on this blog.  You're "reworked" example of Apple vs. Packard Bell is only funny because of it's irony.  You DO come across like that  with everything from the snarky tone to the continual harping on worldwide market share despite it's meaninglessness to the viability of the mac.  It's ok.  It your blog.  And you are snarky with Microsoft too.   Just calling it like I see it.

"It's funny how Apple fans don't respond to reason "

@ibarskiy... ok... try this on for size....

#1.  the Zune hardware is nice.  Good screen.  Nice sizes with the new version.  It's interface is pretty slick as well, with a cross-bar navigation system that is arguably faster than the simply hierarchy of the classic iPod UI (though I imagine it's a little harder to understand for some).  It is, however, no match for the iPhone/iPod Touch user experience.  Not even close.  And the fat nano is pretty awesome and crazy thin.  Still, the Zune is the best player outside of the iPod in my opinion.  Very competitive.

#2. it's not fair to compare Zune's marketshare given its US-only status to players that ship all over the world.  This is no better than the hack commentary that goes on regarding Mac marketshare.  Apple competes in the consumer space, not the enterprise, so it's consumer share is what matters (10 to 20% in the US and 5 to 10% worldwide).  The Zune's success should be judged based on US-only numbers.   That's being honest.

How's that for reason from a Mac fan?  Now for the other side...

Microsoft's Zune is clearly a failure, and not because of it's market share (though it's lack of progress after entering the flash player market is pretty poor).  No, Zune is a failure because it brings nothing new to the table and has only further splintered the ecosystem with another DRM silo.  It's a failure because because it did both of those things, while continuing a tradition of turning on partners that only further chills the market for third parties.

It's a failure because Microsoft entered the market claiming it would enable them to move faster and yet they have actually moved SLOWER than the competition.  It's a failure because, despite Windows Media Player being at version 11, they have chosen to start over with a new application that is still playing distant catch-up to iTunes and multiple fronts.  It's a failure because that application, despite being brand new, doesn't even bother to use Windows Presentation Foundation, and thereby misses a great opportunity to lead developers by example.

It's a failure because it continues Microsoft's carnival-style points scheme from Xbox Live which shows nothing but contempt for consumers and their intelligence.

It's a failure at a fundamental, strategic level.  It makes no sense.  The Zune is a poster-child for a company that is going increasingly off course through diffuse focus too far outside it's core competence.  

And, again, I love my Xbox 360 (minus the noise) and think the Zune is a good player.

Hardy-har-har, Apple laughing all the way to the bank with their meager 3.26% market share. Hardy-har-har indeed! Last time I checked, the success of a company was measured on profit, not world wide market share. However, I do think that the new Zunes look nice. I still own more Sansa's [for the kids of course] and the newer ones seem to work better with Vista.

I am ashamed of my misuse of "you're" instead of "your" and "it's" instead of "its".  Oh jet lag.

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@jp - "Apple competes in the consumer space, not the enterprise"

That is not true...What about Xserve, Xserve RAID, and Xsan?   Oh yeah...you said *competes* ;-)

--tayme

PS to anyone that thinks that I am a fan boy. I couldn't care less if Apple tanks next year. Me, an average user would do fine with any OS. Besides, I own MS stock.

@brandon.pope

The wireless sync of the Zune came out a year after its launch.  I still own a 30gig Zune that I won at a MS conference in Jan of 07, so I had it for almost a year before it got the sync.  Prior to that feature it was only good for squirting, or basically shut off to save the battery.  If you have not tried the wireless sync, its super slow and only good for very small sync jobs.  I would imagine you could not sync 30gig of media to a Zune 1.0 device over wireless before the battery ran out.

However you are correct, my iTouch does not sync via wireless to the iTunes on my Mac.  I can surf the internet, get my email, weather, ical and buy music from iTunes.

The argument that the Zune store is only two years old just does not hold water.  iTunes blazed the trail made mistakes and fixed them.  Any new digital media store does not have to blaze a tail, only copy what has been successful and add more.  

MS already had content on MSN and Xbox Live so its not like they just got into this business.  With iTunes as an example, mountains of money and oh yeah being the biggest software company in the world, should have led the Zune store to be a clone of iTunes from the get go or better.  Another factor is with ever dwindling sales of CD based music the music industry was probably tripping over its self when MS went to launch the new store, anything to sell that music.

If I was a serious MS share holder I would be very upset that they even got into that market at all.  It will take years and billions of dollars for them to make any money.  

Even then it might not ever happen.  The xbox took 5..6 years before it turned a profit?  Microsoft had a strong advantage with the Xbox, software.  They are a software company, os and applications so that greatly helped the Xbox effort.  They dont have that advantage with the Zune.

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Excellent analogy, Paul. I think this perfectly puts things into perspective ;)

@tayme,

I mean for enterprise desktops and laptops.  The Xserve and Xserve RAID are products focused on supporting mac-based businesses and are very good systems.  But you won't see Apple trying to sell them to the client Dell and HP sell to.  Again, Apple is principally a consumer company with a raft of other niches that involve creation and visualization.  But we all know this already.  Nothing new here.

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Paul, does this help you understand why you have a 'problem' with fanboys (of all persuasions but particularly Apple) flocking to your comments?

Over the years you have written many many posts and articles about Apple that are peppered with little snide comments, derogatory remarks and asides. And now you are getting all uppity because Wired used one word ..... just one word..... that  you take offensively. Do you see the hypocrisy here?

Your response? Well let's just fall back on the old Mac market share routine. Because that's a small number isn't it? Even though the Mac market share has very little relationship with even the iPod share .. let alone the Zune's.

It's a really poor post Paul. I would put it down to click-bait apart from the fact that you also posted a comment on Wired.

I seriously believe that you have a problem parsing some numbers, especially percentages.  Microsoft boasted back in June 2006 that they had surpassed there target and sold 1.2 million Zunes. nearly a year later they say they have reached 2 million. So with three different models on sale they appear to be actually selling LESS than when there was only one.

"Put even more simply, the Zune--snip--is actually doing better in its market than the Mac"

Nice strapline. Shame it's wrong.

@SacredCow:  "9/11 x 1000"

"Kim Jong Il: It will be 911 times 2356.

Chris: My God, that's... I don't even know what that is!

Kim Jong Il: Nobody does! "

"Thin skin much?"

Who, Paul, or Mac users?

Seriously, the jokes on you if you are responding negatively to this post.  Paul made it very clear that Wired was being snarky, and that they were going to be called out.  Had the roles been reversed, and the article written like Paul rewrote it (remember, just changing the faces, the text is the same), the reaction to such an article would have been huge.  So even though they are saying the same thing, the reaction is much different based on the companies involved.  

What you guys don't realize apparently is that you just prove Paul's point over and over that he made about the thin skins of Mac fans.  This is just exhibit 5,291.

Preemptive responses:

Yes, I know that market share isn't everything.

Yes, I know that this comparison that Paul made is not perfect, nor is it realistic.  However, to prove a point sometimes, you stretch something until it is distorted to make it obvious.  Paul did that here.

Let's look at this another way:

The Zune is improving in single digit market share increases.

When the Mac does the same thing, Apple fanboy's like to celebrate it fanatically (and posters on these comment sections prove to be more of a fanboy then they let on to be, whenever they call out Paul for criticizing the Mac's minimal increases).

Food for thought.

JohnPapola -

I never tried to imply that you couldn't be objective with respect to Zune (which I personally hate) , I was just pointing out that you and all others completely missed the point that Paul was adressing the bias of the Wired's piece by substituting names and saying that it would cause an outrage.  Which I think you are proving...

Ahh another Waethorn gem-

I'll take the the "single digit market share improvements" of the Mac (and the assocaited profits) over the  "single digit market share improvements" of the Zune.

That is the point that Paul and his Jihad about market share avoids, time and time again.

I'm split on this issues. Comparing Macs to Zune isn't Apple's to Oranges. (I apologize for the pun.) However, lets be fair. The Zune at its current stage is still way behind the iPod. But it does speak to a larger issue. How come Apple has not sealed the deal with the larger segment of the computing industry or consumers? How many more years before Apple makes it to 10 percent? Another 20 years?

Just because the Zune is making slow progress doesn't necessarily mean its dead. Sometime the old adage, slow and steady wins the race would be appropriate here. Apple didn't just grab the number one spot over night, it took awhile to get there. However, I will agree that Microsoft's execution of Zune has been horrible. There is a lot MS can do to get Zune in demand. But its also been a failure not to launch in as many markets as possible.

" I was just pointing out that you and all others completely missed the point that Paul was adressing the bias of the Wired's piece by substituting names and saying that it would cause an outrage."

Umm... not sure where my outrage is.  I did point out that paul has made very comparable blog posts in terms of snark regarding mac marketshare.  Paul's analysis is generally better than this wired post, since he is more consistent in his use of numbers.  

But, still, it's a blog post.  And Paul's example is ironic.  Still, Paul's reasonably fair overall, I'll happily admit.

@subzero:

"How come Apple has not sealed the deal with the larger segment of the computing industry or consumers? How many more years before Apple makes it to 10 percent? Another 20 years?"

Among American consumers, Apple is 10 to 20% of the market, and that's the userbase they target.  Their lack of ultra-cheap boxes keeps their volume from being higher, but it also keeps them much more profitable and subsequently more viable and healthy with more R&D.

As for comparing the Zune to the Mac... there's many reasons why that doesn't work.  Music is highly portable and cross-platform where as software isn't, so the music player market isn't subject to the same network effects and momentum as the PC market.  If someone's iPod dies and they want to try a Zune, it's easy.  The same isn't as easy for a computer.

"Sometime the old adage, slow and steady wins the race would be appropriate here."

e.g.:  Windows Server market penetration

"I'll take the the "single digit market share improvements" of the Mac (and the assocaited profits)"

....and why not?  when you can brainwash fanbois into buying your crap with 40% markup, over the competition who charges 10-20% for the same thing, why go for the latter?  oh right - consumers already chose the latter.

"Music is highly portable and cross-platform"

er....

I'll let you think about the error of that statement for a moment....

"If someone's iPod dies and they want to try a Zune, it's easy."

again, i say "er...."

Zune (the software) isn't compatible with a OS X.  Likewise, iTunes is a PoS on Windows Vista.

Why would anyone buy a Windows Server when distros of Linux are free? Oh that's right MCSE "subversive agents (read: Windows Fanboys like Waethorn) are deluded by the sweat they drink from Ballmer's pits that Windows products are cheaper in the long run then free. After all the Halloween documents told us so and MS never does anything wrong, nor lies, nor both.

Next point contention who charges "10-20% for the same stuff", well you were partially right with the crap statement.

And as far as PoS and Vista; again you got  part of it right... Interesting that software the runs on a OS is the same thing as vaporware.

Thanks Weathorn you proved my points nicely. Come back with something more substantive then the typical party line from Redmond. Kool Aid? Indeed, which flavor of Vista is yours?

"Music is highly portable and cross-platform where as software isn't"

I know, and I tried to make that point to you earlier.  Shouldn't that also mean that Apple should open up iTunes to other hardware manufacturers, and license the DRM tech?  That is basically what you are arguing here.  And since Apple is supposedly so pro-consumer, they should do this, right?  You just said it is highly portable, but clearly it is not, unless you stay within the Apple moat.

"deluded by the sweat they drink from Ballmer's pits that Windows products are cheaper in the long run then free."

And you think Linux is really "free"?

JohnPapola, I wasn't necessarily referring to your outrage (and in general, I have to hand it to you; out of all Apple fans on this blog you are by the most affording of a good conversation), but the zeal was evident in some other replies.

Microsoft sure does, and it terrifies them to no end.

Something they can't undersell?  Sure looks different when the shoe is on the other foot.

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