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TThats about as close to a 'oops...I was wrong" as we're going to get from Paul.

Paul I agree with you on most counts and I agree OpenOffice.org won't be causing too much heartache if any at Microsoft but to lambast it as all users of it as being blighted by its very presence is a rather pompous and presumptuous thing to say.

I find Writer to be superior at managing a long a complicated document (say a user manual) but that's my way of working. I find Word's section management rather annoying at very least, particularly when one has to jump into Normal mode to fix things that won't budge in Print Layout mode. Word isn't that bad, I just find Writer better.

For the average person Calc is also pretty good. Maybe it doesn't have every bit of glitz that Excel does but for the average person it's more than fine.

Impress however is far from impressive. Powerpoint 2007 is much better. In fact I really hate Impress mostly for its awful templates and awful slow and Powerpoint 4 esque transitions.

I do use Google Docs a lot between home and work, especially now offline mode is available through Google Gears is great.

OpenOffice.org does have a place -- maybe in education where schools can use a decent word process, drawing package and spreadsheet that is compatible with MS Office up to 2003 (as soon to 2007) -- and not pay a penny. I would prefer that money in education is directed at educating the children than stuffed into Microsoft's vast coffers.

That said, I do think Office 2007 is brilliant, but for me Word just doesn't do it for me. That and the OpenOffice.org Google Docs integration is also very nice.

So actually 'we don't care' is a lot people don't care, but some of us do care about OpenOffice.org as it is a good product that is without question got its issues but they do get around to them (although I do wonder with Impress...) -- so please, don't be so harsh on the hard work people have put into the product as it isn't that bad. Bottom line is that as your blog this represents your opinions and also some good truths but you can't presume to know exactly how everyone uses their computer and presume that everyone prefers MS Office, because whilst its a select few, not everyone does.

Choice is a good thing.

Remember too that the Office Home and Student license also allows for it to be installed on up to three computers, making your effective cost less than $40 per seat.  I'd also contend that many more people buy the retail version of this product than you say (jokingly, I know).  As the name implies, I'm sure it is pretty popular at the campus bookstore, especially after the "steal" promotion.

Anybody know what Ocean is talking about?

I got MS Office 2004 for $50 after rebate [was $30 after rebate from Amazon, but I had Apple store credit], and got a free 2008 upgrade. Both came with the 3 user license. Pretty sweet deal.

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Paul, I think you're right about OpenOffice. I've looked at it a number of times and just have never felt compelled to ditch commercial software for it.

But even though you're keen toward cloud computing and a platform like Google Docs, I believe the same logic could be applied there. I'm sure that Google docs will have some takers, but I believe it's on a different level from having one's calendar and email in the cloud. Even though wifi spots are popping up more and more, there are still times when I can't find wifi. Or take this morning when I wanted to sit in a coffee shop and do some work on my laptop, their service was down. If I was depending on Google docs, I would have been dead in the water.

I can't picture a scenario when I would EVER prefer the cloud for word processing unless I simply didn't have my own computer with me (which I usually do).

In light of that, my hunch is that Google docs, like OpenOffice, will fill a niche for some folks, but the vast majority of us will use something else... at least for the foreseeable future.

I got the MS Office Ultimate deal for $60 with my College email account that thankfully was still active last year. I honestly cannot believe someone would pay $600 or whatever for Ultimate Retail.

And yes OpenOffice is very frustrating. I installed for my Mom who's a primary school teacher and within couple of hours she was already complaining about format errors and funky print output. But hey its a viable alternative if you're unable to obtain Office.

As both a Mac and a PC user I can tell you from my experience that OpenOffice.org is pointless on either platform.  The notion that Mac users will use it as an alternative is ludicrous.  The true Mac fanboy will go to iWork (it is cheap, $79 right off of the Apple site) and fairly useful.  And for the rest of us that use a Mac but aren't over the top and actually want true productivity will buy the cheapest version of Office 2008 for Mac.  That's what I did.

As for what Paul said about Windows users, I think he's got it right again.  Most people get Office pre-installed on their computers and those that don't typically won't mind spending the little money it does cost for Office Home and Student (which does come with licenses for 3 computers if I remember correctly).

In my mind OpenOffice.org will always be at least a step or two behind Office and I really don't see them ever catching up.  Cloud computing is the future and while Google Docs aren't there yet I find them to be about on par with OpenOffice.org.

Ocean... sorry. What are you referring to?

"I would prefer that money in education is directed at educating the children than stuffed into Microsoft's vast coffers."

"Remember too that the Office Home and Student license also allows for it to be installed on up to three computers, making your effective cost less than $40 per seat."

I'd like to point out that there are vast educational discounts on Microsoft Office software, if the school board or entity wishes to purchase a volume licensing agreement.  They would get educational discounts on operating systems and other software also, not just Office.

Also, Home & Student isn't licensed for profit-making businesses or companies - only for home users and students, as the name implies.  Charitable organizations need to purchase the other business versions of Office, but can do so by buying the Small Business or Professional versions through Open License Charity for significantly less than purchasing Home & Student anyway.  They also have the option for Software Assurance.

If you buy Office Home & Student 2007 OEM with your new PC, it DOES NOT entitle you to 3 PC licenses though - only the Retail copy does.  So if you need that option, it's better to pay the extra $20 to get the Retail version over the OEM.

@lilserenity

I disagree that OpenOffice.org is a good alternative for education.  I a teacher, I feel that our job is to prepare our students for the future as best we can.  If we use software that is sub-standard then we are shortchanging the students.  When these students go off into the real world and get a job sitting in some cubical they will need to have knowledge of Office, and because of this that is what we should be teaching the students with.

On top of this, it isn't like Office is extremely expensive, especially when it is purchased under a Volume License.  In addition, I'm sure that MS does offer schools education discounts as they want to keep their software in place and ensure that future generations of computer users will turn to Office.

Waethorn, maybe I was misunderstood, so I'll clarify.  Most users WILL get Office pre-installed on their new PCs.  Those that don't usually won't mind paying the $150 for a retail copy of Office Home and Student, which will entitle them to three licenses.

>> If OpenOffice.org is serious about stealing share from Office, this is pretty much the only thing they need to do. Everything else is in place.<<

www.internet-nexus.com/.../openofficeorg-beta-20-trouble-for.htm

Having looked at NeoOffice on the Mac and used Open Office on Linux, I fully agree with Paul on this one.  They are okay if you are really pinching the pennies, but for a little more money you can have something much nicer.

I just bought Office For Mac 2008 through work for the princely sum of £17.31 (about $35 - since our organisation uses Microsoft products there is a special deal with Microsoft for those of us (actually all of us) who do some of our work at home.  I am going to evaluate it before I replace Office 2004 on the rest of our Macs ( with Home and Student Version 2008).

The figures for Office 2008 surprise me a bit as there is a lot of competition in this area on the Mac.  I use Scrivener, MS Office, Nisus Writer Pro and Keynote.  They all have there advantages.  In MS Office for Mac PowerPoint is good, Entourage is not and Word has its uses.  I don't like Word for creative writing, Scrivener is better for that - but for the final formatting of a submission Word is much better than the alternatives I have come across.  If I am writing for Radio, Web or Print I will use Scrivener but for a formal submission I always use Word for the final copy.  This probably keeps both Microsoft happy and the small Mac software houses.  Both seem to be thriving at the moment.

@tristanh I take your point about students, but that could change here very quickly in Europe.  A lot of governments here (including the UK) are looking at going Open Source and if they do Enterprise here will probably follow suit.  That will mean that people will have to know their way around Open Office.

@Ocean

Dude... you are referencing a post from 2005.  A lot has changed since then.  For one MS has released Office 2007 which set the bar even higher for OpenOffice.org and gave them a whole bunch more that they need to do.

Also, since that post, could computing has become bigger and bigger to the point where it now seems that this is going to be the future.  It is pointless to try to take market share away from Office now as the evolution of applications such as Google Docs progress and more and more people jump into the cloud.  If OpenOffice.org really wants to make a splash they need to try to beat out Google Docs and create something for the cloud that is much more usable than what is out there now.

"Most users WILL get Office pre-installed on their new PCs."

Ah, but many new systems ship with trials.  Consumer PC's are supposed to ship with Office Home & Student ONLY if the user purchases it at the time of computer purchase, but many manufacturers include the 25-launch trial against Microsoft's recommendations, unless they also include a full version of Works.  Business PC's are supposed to ship with the "Office Ready PC" trial, which is a hybrid trial that can be unlocked to Office Basic, Small Business, or Professional, which are the only editions available for businesses in OEM versions.

Office Home & Student OEM has a 25-launch trial when preinstalled.  The "Office Ready PC" hybrid trial has an option for system builders to include the Office Activation Assistant which gives users a full 60-day trial of Office Professional.  If the user doesn't use the Activation Assistant, they get the same 25-use trial.

A user can buy an OEM copy from the manufacturer up to 90 days after purchasing the computer.  If they do, they can unlock their trial for full use.  The Office Pro hybrid trial will fall back to lesser versions, and leave any superceding programs still enabled as a trial, if time remains on the initial 60 days, meaning that if you buy an "Office Ready PC", but purchase Office Small Business under 60 days after buying the computer, Office Access will remain a trial app until the 60 days are up, since it is not included in the SB edition.

If the user doesn't purchase Office, and the trial expires, AFAIK you can still view and print documents from the programs, but you can't edit documents.  Essentially, they turn into the equivalent viewer programs that Microsoft also offers for free.  After 90 days, the manufacturer isn't allowed to sell the customer an OEM copy, and the user would have to purchase a retail one.

@Avro

The bottom line with that is that Microsoft is too smart to let that happen.  Regardless of how good OpenOffice gets, I can't see it ever being at the same level as Office.  And if for some reason this becomes a serious consideration, I'm sure that MS will do everything they can to keep thier customers.

Maybe it's just me, but OpenOffice is just too far away from the real thing to be any good, and this is the reason people keep shelling out the money for Office.

I know of at least three Small Business that have switched.  When they needed to buy 10 cals of Office 2007 at around $150 is was easy to make the switch.

It really depends how much you use say Excel and if Calc can do what you want.   I have never seen a new PC in the last three years come with office.  They come with 30/90 trials.

In a small privately owned company products like OpenOffice and AVG - Free, and others save $$$.

I am not saying OpenOffice is better, but its pretty dam good.  Most Office users don't touch 50% of the power of office.

I for one dont really like Office 2007.  The ribbon is to big, the start up times suck compared to 2003 and the learning curve for Joe User is steep as well, but its popular.

OpenOffice by its self is no match for Office, but it is one of the many pin pricks, along with many cloud efforts that just might make up the "death of a thousand pin pricks" for Office.  Someday maybe.

Lindy, make sure you look at those small business licenses again for AVG.  AVG is free for personal use, but here, in red, it states if you are a business:  "AVG Anti-Virus Free Edition is only available for single computer use for home and non commercial use."

www.grisoft.com/ww.product-avg-anti-virus-free-edition

If you are a business, the only free protection that I know of is ClamWin, and that is passive protection.

Honestly, the biggest issue with any open source product is, like Paul has said in the past (I believe, don't quote me), is whether it brings anything new to the table. Linux has had some welcoming into servers since it likely runs on less than Windows and many in the IT community probably like assorted elements of it. Firefox has gained a following since it provides extensions and overall makes the web experience better than IE was during the entire IE 6 era from XP launch to near Vista launch.

Now, we get to Open Office, and what do we have? We have a product that works some of the time, but still can't function very well with the standards already on the books. When most companies can afford mass licenses, not to mention many schools, what is the purpose of using a sub-par product that requires you to install additional software just to make it work. Also, when we already have the Word/PP/EX standards on near most PCs, what good is it when you have this other product yelling other formats at you? I had to help a teacher the other day since she had a student use a computer in another room, accidentally saved it in OpenOffice format, and couldn't open it on her PC since it didn't have OO. Many teachers have moderate tech knowledge, but may not understand the inbetween issue.

Either way, I use OO for a long time bit made the investment for the Student edition, and honestly, I don't know how I survived with OO for so long.

Mac users also prefer Pages, Numbers and Keynote. Much better office suite than Office. Pages renders Word docs better than Word itself. Keynote craps all over power point and Numbers is so so nice.

Dipsh and Lindy, several ISP's give an anti-virus/internet protection suite for free, even for business accounts.

Drylight, most of my group that own PC's prefer MS Office. Those that do not were the ones that missed the rebate, but several that missed the rebate still bought MS Office, I think the Student version since we all have kids.

@tristanh

If you are a Mac using professional writer you would probably use Scrivener or WriteRoom.  These both split the creative part of writing from formatting.

"The bottom line with that is that Microsoft is too smart to let that happen"

Unfortunately Microsoft has not been smart in the past nor will they make the decision.  Their reluctance to comply with the EU anti-trust judgements may have knocked them out of contention for future EU government contracts and this could spill over to Enterprise.  This may be what has provoked their appeal this week of the judgement.  Basically you have to be of good character to be considered for further government contracts and if the judgement stands, that means that Microsoft may not be able to bid on new contracts.  If Microsoft had been smart they would have complied with the earlier judgements and that would not have placed them in this position nor with such a heavy fine.

arstechnica.com/.../20080414-microsoft-may-be-barred-from-eu-public-procurement-procedure.html

I don't think we would be particularly well served by having a choice of Open Office or Open Office, but that is what we could end up with.  I think Open Office is okay and I certainly could live with it, but it is still a bit bargain basement.

@DRWAM I have iWork on my Hard Drive and it certainly is very nice and a good alternative to MS Office.  Some will stick with Office just because they don't like change and others will prefer iWork.  I think both are good.

The biggest problem with OpenOffice.org is that its tied to Java. Java continues to have security and performance issues. There are rampant code bloat issues reported and versus MS Office, lacks the speed and responsiveness of the program.

blogs.zdnet.com/Ou

Also, the U.S. goverment has programs in place to purchase PC's for school districts, which usually contain some version of MS Office. MS reps work hand in hand not only with the PC vendors and school districts, but also with the companies contracted to do delivery, installation, and upkeep. This is a big part of the ecosystem that both Apple and Linux has failed to establish for their operating systems. Thats why MS dominance of the industry is not going away. Until Apple and Linux companies attack the true infrastructure of MS, then maybe they might gain ground.

" When they needed to buy 10 cals of Office 2007 "

you don't buy CAL's for Office, you buy CAL's for Windows Server....

....such ignorance!

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Hang on, if we're actually suggesting iWork over OpenOffice, we've definitely entered the twilight zone. That application suite is beautifully designed -- and wildly incompatible, missing key features, and often buggy.

For what it's worth, I've written for official Apple publisher and Mac-centric publishing house Peachpit and for Macworld Magazine, and the in-house tools there are both Office. Were they happy about that? Nope. Did I develop a unique language of expletives to describe extensive revisions of a 600 page book? Yep. If revision tools were better in OO, would those houses switch? Probably. Would I? Already have.

The casual office user who occasionally needs a desktop tool and is doing a lot of sharing on Google Docs to me is a *prime* candidate for Open Office. And the download numbers and anecdotal evidence bear that out. OO is growing. Figure that -- Microsoft shaking in their boots or not -- this market is so HUGE that you don't have to take a very big bite out of it to have a healthy user base.

Mac users have always had an awkward relationship with Microsoft to begin with (gee, can't imagine why). The new office suite to many Mac users I've talked to is a huge disappointment. And OpenOffice is finally maturing and differentiating itself.

So, yeah, I don't see this as the Beginning of the End for Microsoft, but Paul, why paint it in the same black-and-white terms in the reverse?