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With Firefox 3 themes, it's amateur hour

Mozilla User Experience Designer Alex Faaborg describes the new visual experience in Firefox 3 and attempts to answer some criticisms of the design. I don't feel he's adequately addressed the concerns, which I'll outline again below within the context of the final Firefox 3 look and feel:

The overall goal of the Firefox 3 visual refresh was visually integrating with the platform, while still maintaining a unique identity and presence by using the keyhole form for the navigation controls.

Keyholes

The one exception to this cross platform visual identity was Linux, where we decided against using the keyhole form in favor of uplifting the native OS theme’s navigation controls. On many Linux distributions we are often already the default browser, so there is less of a need for us to establish a visual presence, and it makes more sense to seamlessly integrate with the rest of the desktop environment.

So I'm going to call BS on this one. Mozilla wants to "visually integrate" with the underlying platform while maintaining "a unqiue (Firefox) identity." And yet, they only visually integrate with Linux and only maintain their unique identity on non-Linux platforms. No offense, guys. But this is both inconsistent and contrary to your supposed goals. Visually integrating with the underlying OS makes sense. You should do it for your volume users as well as the Linux minority.

And speaking of the "keyhole" navigation buttons, if this is such a good idea, why not use this control in the Library window? Witness these pointlessly different Back and Forward buttons:

Here's the excuse for this travesty:

On OS X the Library window is reminiscent of the Finder, and on Vista the window has a similar visual style as other media collection applications, like Windows Media Player and Windows Photo Gallery.

Except that it doesn't. There's a black bar, as in WMP, yes, but the navigational buttons are different in the shot above. Why are they different from both WMP and from the main Firefox window? Again, it's inconsistent, and for no good reason.

Moving along...

Did We Achieve Our Goal for this Visual Refresh?
Firefox 3 is way ahead of Firefox 2 when it comes to visual integration with the desktop environment on Linux. From using native gtk widgets in the content area to uplifting the OS theme icons, we have made an incredible amount of progress with this release.

In terms of overall visual integration, I believe on XP we clearly met this goal. Firefox 3 visually integrates with XP by using the platform’s color palette while tweaking the style enough to still appear modern on an aging OS.

On Vista we do a great job visually integrating with icons and with our set of secondary windows, although the main window is notably missing support for Aero glass. Users will hopefully be able to get this functionality using an extension during the life cycle of Firefox 3, and we will have glass support added to XUL for the next release of Firefox.

Ah, so even Mozilla admits they did not actually achieve their goals for this visual refresh on Windows Vista. That's refreshing (pardon the pun), but it does nothing to address the inconsistency issues. If you're going to be inconsistent with the underlying OS, at least be consistently inconsistent. (If that makes sense.)

Now look at this mess:

If you didn't know better, you'd assume those two windows were from two different applications. But they're not. You've got two different toolbar types (color scheme/icon sets), different navigational controls, completely different visual styles.

Put simply, Firefox 3 is a user interface disaster on Windows Vista and doesn't satisfy the promises Mozilla made last year, sorry. (And before someone points out that the Library window in that post closely matches the Library window shown above, well duh. The issue is that the entire Firefox UI doesn't match that look and feel, something that would indeed allow the browser to closely integrate with the look and feel of Vista.)

Published May 18 2008, 12:24 PM by pthurrott
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Comments

 

weedmonk said:

Paul to get those navigation buttons you see in the Library window you have to set your icons on navigation bar to "Small Icons"(right click>customize). Thats the only difference.

I use the default buttons on my Desktop righ and the other icon set on my laptop where screen real estate is precious.

May 18, 2008 10:28 AM
 

bloodsugarwilksm said:

Hey Paul - I love your Podcast with Leo and your websites, but I think you're being a little harsh on Firefox and Mozilla.  I understand all of your recent points about some of the possible flaws in design for Firefox, but what users really care about and what I really care about is the performance.  And Firefox 3 is hands-down better than IE 7 in almost every aspect of web browsing.

I also don't understand why you've become so harshly critical of Mozilla when in the past, at least from what I can recall, you've been a big fan and used Firefox as your default browser.  

I have a super fast AMD X2 desktop that runs Windows Vista like a hot knife through butter, and IE 7 is nothing compared to Firefox 2 or 3.  IE 7 on Vista is slow at opening new tabs, and does not conform to web standards making it pale in comparison to Mozilla's dedication to the web.  I have had more issues with IE acting strangely on the web, rather than Firefox.  Microsoft is just playing catch up with whatever Mozilla does.  

Again, love the SuperSite, SuperSite Blog, and your Podcast with Leo, I would just love some more posts about the "why" regarding your critical views of Mozilla as of late.  

Thanks!

May 18, 2008 12:17 PM
 

Windows » With Firefox 3 themes, it’s amateur hour said:

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May 18, 2008 12:34 PM
 

weedmonk said:

@BloodSugar I agree with you that Paul might be being a little too harsh on Mozilla guys because 3.0 is noticeable better in my experience than any iteration so far on 2.0.

As far as FF being *faster* than IE, I have  to beg to differ from my experience. For whatever reason IE is always faster than FF  especially on Vista. It might have to with native services IE uses that loaded on startup but that has always been the case. Not noticeable enough for me to however give up the extensibility of FF.

Also there is a reason IE Tab is must have in the FireFox world....I constantly run into pages that require IE to render properly and not the other way around.  I wish it were different and with the move to standards by MS it has been getting better.

May 18, 2008 12:47 PM
 

pollycat said:

A couple of reasons Paul is on this crusade concerning Firefox 3:

* In the early stages of its development, Mozilla promised "native" UI integration and posted indicators that Firefox 3 would integrate "natively" in to the Vista UI with aero glass and all the other eye candy, and Paul got really excited about this, seeing as few other programs at the time were looking so good on Vista.

* Since then, Vista has been the "poor relation" in terms of Firefox's visual integration with the underlying OS.  It looks great on Linux, acceptable on Mac OSX, fine on Windows XP but... well, not so good or consistent on Vista, as Paul has pointed out.

* Paul is used to a world where people concentrate on "the dominant" platform first (i.e. Windows) and then maybe, or maybe not, look at producing a similar quality product for "the other" platforms out there with 0.000256% "world" market share.  He's used to pointing to the Windows version of any software as more mature / full featured / sophisticated / better-looking, etc. and the Linux / Mac versions of the same software as, well, lacking in some way.  This is the "natural order of things" for someone like Paul.  

Therefore, it is highly disturbing for him to find that a piece of software that is widely used, popular, and also something he has been championing, could "dare" to focus its efforts and attention on those "also ran" OS platforms and only think of integrating with the "superior" platform (i.e. Vista) at some unforeseen future point in time.

I guess the solution for Paul is just to use IE7, which integrates beautifully with Vista - why bother with Firefox at all if Mozilla is going to be so "dumb"?

May 18, 2008 1:01 PM
 

Avro said:

Paul always points out to us that Windows "owns" Enterprise and that is where those high numbers come from.  Any Enterprise computers that I come into contact with have only IE (unless they are Macs).  Firefox is the default browser on the Linux distros and loads of MacUsers choose to use it rather than Safari.  I haven't in the past because I prefer the graphical tabs of OmniWeb and Firefox 2 had a very clunky interface.  I might well decide to use Firefox on XP though.

Still he is right that Vista deserves a better interface than this.

May 18, 2008 2:17 PM
 

pthurrott said:

If I'm harsh about Firefox it's because I love it so much. This is software I use every day (check out my Wakoopa stats) and as I move more and more to Web services, the browser becomes a much bigger deal. I feel that Mozilla has dropped the ball on the FF3 UI from two perspectives: a) what they originally promised, which was exciting; and b) what's possible given Vista's built-in UI features. It's a shame, that's all.

None of this means I'm going to stop using or recommending Firefox. I just expect more from software that's generally excellent.

All that said, pollycat's comments are way out of line. I feel that Mozilla should be at least consistent in their approach to Vista, XP, Mac, and Linux. They're not doing that. I don't think FF3 looks great (or even "good" or "acceptable") on Linux, to be honest. In fact, that's arguably the worst UI port so far. But I'm not a Linux guy so I focus on the system I use, sure. I assume that's understandable.

But yeah, I think logically that special attention should be paid to Windows users: We're the majority user base for FF, no doubt about it. God forbid they acknowledge that and spend a bit of effort making the Windows version of their product look good. Sorry if that's harsh. I just think it's common sense.

May 18, 2008 2:22 PM
 

johnpapola said:

I totally agree, Paul.  Firefox 3 themes look pretty awful across the board.  OS integration aside, there's just a general lack of good aesthetics at play.

I know on OSX, their effort to look native ends up looking worse because it's a close-but-no-cigar look that's rough all around the edges and generally doesn't have the same feel as native apps.  Just going to the app preferences leaves you feeling like you're in a Java app with its poorly spaced type, old tabs and junky, fake toolbar depression.

I assume Vista is the same situation.  

Of course Apple and Microsoft both have problems keeping their own houses in order on the app consistency front, so it's a bit like throwing stones in a glass house.  Leopard helped a lot on OSX, but what I've seen of Vista and Microsoft's built-in apps along with Office are disgraceful.  Nearly every app is different in varying degrees.  

it's a total mess.  So the question for Mozilla in Vista becomes... which look are they supposed to adhere to?  The Windows Media Player look?  The IE look?  The Office look?

May 18, 2008 2:51 PM
 

rseiler said:

Alas, there's already a blog entitled "Nattering nabob of negativism," otherwise it would have been a perfect name for what this one has turned into. In this case, it's sadly trivial and wildly exagerrated, too, making it worse.

I realize the average blogger is all about making snarky commentary and popping balloons, but constantly playing the superior know-it-all is getting old.

Think different.

May 18, 2008 4:06 PM
 

howarddenton said:

Firefox is a far superior product to IE and you should acknowledge this.  Picking holes in what it looks like just shows the weakness of your argument.  

May 18, 2008 4:43 PM
 

pthurrott said:

rseiler: Um.. what?

I'm not being a know-it-all. I'm voicing my opinion that they screwed this up. Sorry for bring up what I consider to be a valid point.

If Thinking Different means always agreeing with the corporations that make the products I use, I'm not interested, sorry.

May 18, 2008 4:45 PM
 

pthurrott said:

howarddenton: That's ridiculous. FF is superior to IE. It's not perfect, and the UI silliness in v3 is a good example of that.

May 18, 2008 4:46 PM
 

Lindy said:

My thoughts....

1.  Turn on the small buttons.

2.  Nothing could be worse looking that Vista's neon gui, with its thick borders and goofy over all look.  Of course this is subjective, but so was 90% of your blog post.

3.  There is no way in you know what that IE7 is faster that FF3 on Vista or XP.  IE7 is a pig when it comes to speed.  Its fat top border/button layout is hideous, and its button layout/functionality is the worst of any browser I have ever used.  

IE serves one purpose, to give the full feature set to Microsoft web based applications, like Exchange OWA, or sharepoint.  MS said OWA premium for Exchange 2007 was going to work with Firefox and then dropped it at the last min.  They know if they dont make IE necessary for things like OWA/Sharepoint that it will fail completely.

May 18, 2008 10:10 PM
 

johnpapola said:

Great article that points to some of the inherent developer issues in creating a consistent UI for Windows Vista:

arstechnica.com/.../4

Just a handful of the inconsistencies that plague the entire suite of Microsoft applications.   Again, Apple isn't a perfect saint here, but Leopard was a big step forward in the consistency and unification goal.

If Microsoft can't provide a standard and live by it within reason for things as simple as menu placement, how is any developer supposed to know what a true "native look" even should be?

May 18, 2008 11:12 PM
 

drylight said:

How can you call it a disaster in Vista when Vista's own UI is a disaster itself. Horrific doesn't describe how bad it really is.

May 19, 2008 2:03 AM
 

johnpapola said:

Paul,

Is there a Windows equivalent to Apple's "Human Interface Guidelines"?  Why do you think the OS has so many seemingly random differences?  Judging by the subtle and pointless variations throughout Vista, it seems as if every department was looking at a low-res jpeg of what their window style should be and extrapolating the rest.

May 19, 2008 5:31 AM
 

frankps » Firefox, Move Back To Start! said:

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May 19, 2008 12:10 PM
 

What do You Think of the Firefox 3 Themes? said:

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June 15, 2008 1:34 AM
 

Firefox Browser Blog « Fir3foxus3er’s Weblog said:

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June 15, 2008 4:27 PM
 

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June 16, 2008 8:30 PM
 

Will Firefox Morph into Chrome over Two Iterations? said:

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July 22, 2009 2:37 AM
 

Gorgeous Firefox 3.7 for Windows mockups | Everything Microsoft said:

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Paul Thurrott is the guy behind the SuperSite for Windows. Way behind. :)
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