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Randall Stross jumps the shark

So before I rip into this one--and honestly, how could I do otherwise, given how wrongheaded this is?--I would like at least take a moment to note that I generally enjoy Randall Stross. This one, however, took me by surprise and I had to resist the urge to toss aside the Kindle (from which I read it this morning) and jump online ("someone's wrong on the Internet!"). But seriously. This is just idiotic. I'm sorry, but it is.

Beginning as a thin veneer for older software code, [Windows] has become an obese monolith built on an ancient frame. Adding features, plugging security holes, fixing bugs, fixing the fixes that never worked properly, all while maintaining compatibility with older software and hardware — is there anything Windows doesn’t try to do?

The best solution to the multiple woes of Windows is starting over. Completely. Now.

Vista is the equivalent, at a minimum, of Windows version 12 — preceded by 1.0, 2.0, 3.0, 3.1, NT, 95, NT 4.0, 98, 2000, ME, XP.

Except, of course, that it isn't.

Windows Vista is the latest in a line of NT-based OSes that includes just Windows NT (versions 3.1, 3.5, 3.51, 4.0), Windows 2000 (5.0), and Windows XP (5.1). (There are server derivates as well, but whatever.) The Windows 1.0, 2.0, 3.0, 3.1, 95, 98, and Me release he mentions are completely different products with different code bases.

But the assumption here, of course, is that OS X and Linux, both based on UNIX systems that actually pre-date the original version of NT are somehow "newer" or "fresher" and, equally illogically are somehow "better." UNIX is older than NT. And NT is a descendant of VMS, which was an attempt by DEC to make a better UNIX. Let's leave the architectural discussions to the experts and at least just agree that all three--Vista/Server 2008 (i.e. "Windows"), UNIX/Linux, and UNIX/OS X--are all modern, scalable, and capable OSes. Because they are.

After six years of development, the longest interval between versions in the previous 22-year history of Windows, and long enough to permit Apple to bring out three new versions of Mac OS X, Vista was introduced to consumers in January 2007.

And here we have the second bit of iCabal BS that Stross passes off as "fact." Actually, Microsoft shipped a wide number of OSes between XP (2001) and Vista (2006). In fact, they shipped more OS releases than Apple did during this same time period. These OSes include Windows XP Table PC Edition (two versions), Windows XP Media Center Edition (four versions), Windows XP Service Pack 2 (SP2, a free gimmee to users to make up for security issues), and two versions of Windows Server, among many others. If you're going to make Panther and Tiger seem lke "new versions" of Mac OS X, then you need to include Table PC and Media Center Editions on the Windows side too. Certainly, the Windows OSes were more impressive from a functional improvement standpoint. Geesh.

Sticking with that same core architecture [between Vista and Windows 7] is the problem, not the solution. In April, Michael A. Silver and Neil MacDonald, analysts at Gartner, the research firm, presented a talk titled “Windows Is Collapsing.” Their argument isn’t that Windows will cease to function but that the accumulated complexity, as Microsoft tries to support 20 years of legacies, prevents timely delivery of advances. “The situation is untenable,” their joint presentation says. “Windows must change radically.”

As he notes, this talk was presented way back in April. And it was immediately debunked as utter claptrap. I wrote two responses to this talk, a blog post and an article called Is Windows Broken?, that pretty much sum up why those two clowns at Gartner don't know their microkernel from their microwave popcorn. (Neither does Stross, apparently. This vaguely saddens me.)

Some software engineers within Microsoft seem to be in full agreement, talking in public of work that began in 2003 to design a new operating system from scratch.They believe that problems like security vulnerabilities and system crashes can be fixed only by abandoning system design orthodoxy, formed in the 1960s and ’70s, that was built into Windows.

Um. What? He's referring to a Microsoft research project called Singularity that has absolutely nothing to do with Windows. What a weird stretch to make.

And BTW: That "orthodoxy"? It's older in UNIX. And thus in OS X and Linux as well.

If Microsoft thinks it is too late to actually use Singularity or something like it, the company should take heart from Apple’s willingness to brave the wrath of its users when, in 2001, it introduced Mac OS X. It was based on a modern microkernel design, which runs a very small set of essential services that make the system less vulnerable to crashes. But the change forced Mac users to buy new versions of all their existing Mac applications if they were to run speedily on the new system. It has paid off in countless ways, though...

Sure it did. And like Stross, I'm sure, I recall how OS X couldn't even play DVD movies when it first arrived. Developing a new system--even one based on older technologies like the Mach microkernel and a UNIX derivative called Free BSD--is a huge undertaking. But when you only have a tiny chunk of the market, as Apple did and does, you can take big steps like that. There is absolutely zero evidence that OS today is any faster, smaller, secure, or less buggy than Windows Vista.

A monolithic operating system like Windows perpetuates an obsolete design.

More BS. Windows is not monolithic except in the most pedantic sense (i.e. it does not employ a microkernel, a concept that dates from the early 1990s). In fact, Windows is highly componentized at a very deep level, work that occurred over several years and a few Windows versions to make, get this, Windows much less monolithic than it used to be.

We don’t need to load up our machines with bloated layers we won’t use. We need what Mr. Silver and Mr. MacDonald speak of as a “just enough” operating system. Additional functionality, appropriate to a given task, can be loaded as needed.

We have this today. It's called Windows. Maybe you've heard of it.

What Microsoft has done, however, is arbitrarily decide what software components are included in the desktop versions of Windows and which components you can add and remove. (Windows Server is far more malleable; witness the Server Core version of Windows Server 2008 as the obvious example. There is absolutely nothing like Server Core on the Mac OS X side, Mr. Stross. Indeed, all Apple lets you remove are some international languages and printer drivers, and then only if you perform a clean install of the OS.)

Avadis Tevanian, who worked on microkernel research as a Ph.D. student at Carnegie-Mellon, then on the Next operating system, followed by nine years at Apple where he oversaw the transition to Mac OS X, recalled how the decision was made when Apple’s market share was stuck at 3 percent and the company was losing money.

I guess not much has changed on the OS side. Yes, Apple is making money hand over fist, but its Mac OS X is still "stuck" with 3 percent market share, according to the very latest figures.

Microsoft should move its researchers into the heart of its systems development team. Windows OS X, a just-enough operating system built from scratch, is a product likely to be crucial to its future, too.

I am freaked to be saying this, but you, sir, know absolutely nothing about either Windows or Mac OS X and shouldn't be giving this kind of advice. Shame on you for publishing such a story. Microsoft is right now working on further componentization of Windows ("MinWin"), a project that could very well result in the type of "just-enough" OS that, no, Apple doesn't have today either. But even today's Windows versions (Vista and Server 2008) are architecturally and factually quite different--i.e. "superior"--to what you've described.

Sad.

Comments

 

Yawn! said:

Yawn!

Who care what this hack thinks.   Vista is a hit just ask Microsoft.   Windows 7 will be a hit as well.

June 29, 2008 7:01 PM
 

Cfischer83 said:

@ Yawn!

It matters not so much because this guy specifically doesn't know what he's talking about, but because SO many people who some how get jobs as tech journalists have no idea what they're talking about. So if the majority of tech "journalists" out there are spreading this kind of stuff around, people may actually start believing it.

I just got into an argument with someone who thought they were an expert... they were saying how Vista copied all of Leopard's features... I mean... Oh. My. Gosh! The ignorance that is out there is astounding, so the more we can educate people about this kind of stuff the better off everyone will be.

Ignorance != Bliss;

Ignorance == Bad for technology

June 29, 2008 7:25 PM
 

Mirek2 said:

"We don’t need to load up our machines with bloated layers we won’t use. We need what Mr. Silver and Mr. MacDonald speak of as a “just enough” operating system. Additional functionality, appropriate to a given task, can be loaded as needed.

We have this today. It's called Windows. Maybe you've heard of it. "

Really? Do we really need "Purble Place" and "DVD Maker" and "Paint" and "Wordpad"? And if I want to uninstall (not hide, mind you, but completely remove) those, and perhaps even IE, since I use Firefox, where can I do that easily? Oh, should I have first gone to Europe to search for the N version?

"Indeed, all Apple lets you remove are some international languages and printer drivers, and then only if you perform a clean install of the OS."

Oh, and the iLife suite and Safari... Anyway what would you like to remove in an OS, except for applications and drivers and languages?

I do, however, agree that Windows should continue its path (even though I rarely use it nowadays)...

June 29, 2008 7:56 PM
 

Ocean said:

I thought the article was dead on, as did many other tech blogs.

Still, Pauls dissent is an interesting read.  But he's no more an expert than anyone else...

June 29, 2008 11:07 PM
 

JamesNT said:

You n00bs didn't learn anything from the nineties, did you?

Remember all those office suites that came out - the ones that claimed they were "just enough" and didn't have all the bloat the MS Office had?  Who needs all those useless features, they said.  People only use 10% of all that stuff, was the claim.

Tell me, where are those companies now and how much market share does Office have - a full 10 to 15 years later?

Who decides what "Just enough" is?  Just enough for you may not be just enough for me.

How many people actually bought the copy of XP the EU forced MS to make that didn't have media player?

People may only use 5 - 10% of Windows - it just happens to be a different 5 - 10%.  So if you start "trimming the fat" someone is going to complain about their favorite feature missing.

I use Movie Maker, for example.

In this case, all MS would be doing is trading off one set of bitching for another set of bitching.

"Stupid Microsoft!  No one needs this moronic feature taking up CPU cycles!"

"Stupid Microsoft!  This feature should be part of the Operating System.  Why am I having to install it manually or - GASP! - purchase a third party software and spend more money because Windows can't do this at all!?!?"

6 of one half a dozen of the other.

BTW - that last quoted comment reminds me - why did we sue MS for including IE in the OS again?

JamesNT

June 29, 2008 11:30 PM
 

j4m3s0n79 said:

I would like to briefly bring up the proverbial 'rock' and 'hard place' that every OS designer is between now-a-days.

I find it useful to separate two things that will really help illustrate this point:

Operating System : Applications

So the OS is meant to be a platform on which applications run and applications are supposed to be the modular extention of functionality.

What then should go into an OS?

1) A solid and compatible code base with available middleware for application development.

2) Support for a wide range of hardware.

3) Reporting and monitoring features for debugging and analysis.

4) Communications support for network functionality

5) Security and Threat analysis

6) A simple way to get apps on and off the system.

7) Secure file system

8) user management and so forth.

(I know I am really oversimpifying this list...but read on).

Everything else should be left up to applications.

So from my perspective, MS without question nails most of the things needed in an OS. While you may question the need fro IE or purble palace..you can remove them or just not use them. Install quake, or fire fox, or google docs..or whatever the funk you want to.

I personally find microsofts interface to be intuitive and fairly adaquate which enables me to run the things that are IMPORTANT.....APPLICATIONS.

The problem is that every iCabal jack-*** out there seems to think that OSX is all that and a bag of chips when really, they mostly refer to the bundled apps with mac software. This makes no sense to me because largely, doing OS related tasks on MS or OSX are largely the same because the OS in both cases serves the same function...a platform to run applications in a variety of environments.

To say that the MS os is bloated is just straight freaking reeee-donkulous. I have a Via C7 on an HP mini note with vista business that runs it fairly zippy.

I would simply state that as the perception of the OS shifts more towards online services, MSs position will once again be strenghened. This is simply because MS has a far better networking stack than OSX but more importantly, MS actually has the resources to create a compelling online suite of services for a much wider audience.

I don't think apple can scale their infrastructure enough to compete in the cloud with the user base as small as it is. Instead, I foresee apple needing to open up their platform to 3rd parties to create a compelling offering which they have little experience in managing.

For once, MS is actually in a prime position with the + services portion of their business to create a really compelling platform of online services for office, email, storage, blogs, photos, mobile devices, chat, games...the list goes on and on. And what's more, is that their backend is designed to be interoperable...because they have historically been far more open than Apple.

I think if MS does decide to start over on the client side, it will be irrelevant by the time they release products to consumers because most consumers will have shifted their usage to be online.

What annoys me is that neither apple or MS has committed to re-inventing the user experience. MS will remain MS and apple is content to release incremental updates that do little more than support new apple products.

June 30, 2008 12:41 AM
 

Robert McLaws: Windows Vista Edition said:

You know, it really surprises me sometimes how little reporters that cover technology actually know about

June 30, 2008 1:16 AM
 

daveinla said:

Actually, neither that guy, nor Paul is right. And Paul and the vast majority of the commenters here don't know much of the history of the OSs and the kernels apparently. And that makes their comments and biased point of view stupid. The Wincabal had to react and they did.

To start with: Yes OSX has older roots than NT/XP/Vista. That doesn't make it worse of course. As one might imagine, 90% of the kernel of back then has been rewritten. Mach was an University research project to make the kernel as minimal as possible in order to make it componentized and to put the maximum stuff in the user memory space and not kernel space. That has the virtues to securize it and to make it tiny in memory and to dynamically load the frameworks when needed. It's like an "on demand" OS. The drawback is that it is much more complicated to write for these OS and that these kernels are not as fast as the monolithic kernels like Linux or WIndows pre XP for example. So Apple during the many versions of OSX that came out included many things into the kernel space in order to make it faster as things running in kernel space are executed faster. So now OS X is a hybrid kernel that is supposedly a microkernel but not really in fact. At the same time Apple as incorporated the many sophistication that Free BSD has had lately in the latest release of OSX (OSX kernel is Mach+BSD I remind you).

Of course MS has been working a lot on the NT kernel too and moved it the other direction as NT was a monolithic kernel. So they worked mostly to compenentize it and move stuff out of the kernel in order to make it more secure and malleable. So it's not a monolithic kernel anymore and it's a kind of hybrid too.

Both kernel are very sophisticated and converged a lot. OSX moved toward better performance at the expense of security and NT move the opposite, hence the declining nimbleness of Vista's kernel.

Saying the NT is better because its roots are younger is pure BS and ignorance. FreeBSD has always been considered as having the best networking stack out there and of course the others have caught up by largely copying its code.

I'd like to see a serious academic work comparing both stack and drawing conclusions. But all major OS have pretty similar networking stack in terms of perfs I think. SInce Leopard, OSX has a self-tuning stack that constantly look for the better perf depending on network bandwidth and latency:

lists.apple.com/.../msg00132.html

I don't know if Linux or Vista have this but I won't go as far as claiming it's the best until I don't know 100% about the others. That a simple journalistic rule. Of course on a Wincabal site you can't expect much research on the OSX history of development.

Lots of sour grapes visible here when Paul says MS has released lots of Windows versions with NT kernel. That is laughable and ridiculous: counting x versions of tablets editions+x versions of media center all based on the same versions of WIndows is pure stupidity and ignorance. There's nothing wrong Paul with MS shipping less versions of OS than Apple in the same amount of time. You don't have to feel bad about it and sound ridiculous by citing such stupid things. You discredit yourself hugely... It's fine if windows as had less major versions,  as long as they are stable and everybody's fine with them.

for detailed diagram of the history of OSX and WIn CF here:

www.levenez.com/.../history.html

www.levenez.com/.../history.html

As one can see Apple has shipped lots of MAJOR versions of OSX since 2001 with everytime very deep changes in the kernel and frameworks. So much so that every 2 versions of OSX, the softs are not compatible anymore with the older OSXs. That is still the case today. Apple makes dramatic changes and choices to their OS that make it modern and sophisticated. On the other hand MS has shipped much less MAJOR versions of Windows since 2001. And in the mean time minor changes have occurred to the kernel. Vista has been the major changes since, hence the big incompatibilities and the growing pains.

And then the sour grapes become even more sour and Paul loses it... :

"And like Stross, I'm sure, I recall how OS X couldn't even play DVD movies when it first arrived." What the relations with the article here ?? OSX has had HUGE growing pains but has constantly evolved towards being faster, more optimized and modern-featured laden. It has abandoned tons of old technology and incorporated tons of new modern ones.

What the author means is that despite being a modern and evolved OS WIndows has never been able to take bold step, let go of old stuff and incorporated massively new modern features. Windows is a developer mess of inconsistencies and illogic:

arstechnica.com/.../what-microsoft-could-learn-from-apple.ars

arstechnica.com/.../microsoft-learn-from-apple-II.ars

arstechnica.com/.../microsoft-learn-from-apple-III.ars

Tip for Wincabalists: read these articles carefully, there are very well documented and will open your eyes, And no it's not written by an icabalist...

Gosh Paul should insitute a tax on Win/i cabalist term, he would be rich !!! ;-)

"There is absolutely zero evidence that OS today is any faster, smaller, secure, or less buggy than Windows Vista."

Super easy to measure for any power user like me who uses both OSX and Windows extensively for 15+ years (Heck OSX was not even here then !!!!). Faster: OSX is on a 2 year old machine, TIE on a modern machine.  smaller: it is by looking at memory usage after fresh start or 1 week of use. Less buggy: 0 kernel panic with Leopard so far on my 2 Macs, at least 3 on my Dell with Vista SP1... And I'm not a isolated case I think.

And then even more sour grapes and ridiculousness:

"I guess not much has changed on the OS side. Yes, Apple is making money hand over fist, but its Mac OS X is still "stuck" with 3 percent market share, according to the very latest figures."

When Paul is out of acid to write about Apple, that's the usual regurgitated stuff that must make any knowledgeable reader of his blog like me chuckle and react. So childish and stupid... My Dad might have the ugliest car but it will kick you Dad's car in a straight line and much more have been sold nanananana.... !!! Pathetic...

And WAIT !!! here come the cherry on the cake:

"I am freaked to be saying this, but you, sir, know absolutely nothing about either Windows or Mac OS X and shouldn't be giving this kind of advice."

MPFFFFFFFfff !!!!!!! ROFL !!!!!!!!!

No offense here Paul, but even if that guy doesn't know much obviously about both OSs, he wrote much less BS and much less sour grapes BS than you did...

You just discredited yourself again as a Wincabalist who can't stand legitimate criticism about Windows, and god knows it has lots of good reasons to be criticized. That's a fact it has less evolved than OSX in the mean time (find any excuse you want) and that it is more bloated with legacy APIs...

Being the company that everybody in the Business dream to work for (Whether Apple or Google) has its advantages: People work their a** off programming a good product and the cream of the crop fights to work for your company... And in the end who comes with the best products and plays catch-up ????

June 30, 2008 2:13 AM
 

Flenser said:

If you're going to reference XKCD at least provide the link: http://xkcd.com/386/

June 30, 2008 2:49 AM
 

Very Geeky vs. Main Stream journalism « Good Deals. Good Ideas. Good Designs. Good Health. said:

Pingback from  Very Geeky vs. Main Stream journalism « Good Deals. Good Ideas. Good Designs. Good Health.

June 30, 2008 5:22 AM
 

Nickelgreen said:

No offense, Dave, but from what i read it's you the person who denies completely any criticism, obviously seen by an apple/unix side.

Criticizing Microsoft (and Windows) it's too easy and i define it a game for idiots or immature people.

In fact in your response i read the same old crappy considerations repeated like a mindless automaton by every (i mean really EVERY) Apple or Unix user. I've heard them since years.

Same old stories, same old excuses to "elevate" their preferred systems as the best in the world, same old UNTRUE stories about unique and genuine (and original) nature of Unix. Untrue because you see software and hardware in the wrong perspective.

In automotive sectors we have industrial espionage but do you see troopers on newspapers or blogs accusing that "General motors invented the navigator with vocal command first and it's more practical than the one Volkswagen presente last year"? Do wee read these kind of BS? No.

So why is this market so different? The difference is all in the mind. And, if we look at the market, we have very very different responses.

We are really talking about A THREE PERCENT MARKET system "superiority" (4% if you add Linux in whatsoever distro or "this world" incarnation)? Are all of you serious? Don't even (sometimes, not all days) cross your mind that if Windows has this monopoly there is a practical reason?

Take a look at Ed Bott's market share quotes for browsers. IE is generally going bad (even if I must say that google analytics are not to be considered as gold standards for this kind of shares). However, THIS is a tangible fact. From this, I can understand that people likes Firefox (which i don't use but it's my personal philosphy) from their perspective for a lot of reason (skins, add ons mainly) and i can see a real effects on advertising (not always fair adv like the "use firefox" on the google home page for IE users and not for any others browsers). It's healthy competition however.

All "cabals" are only produced by blindfolded fans which, historically and objectively, have been "fidelized" in years.

Windows doesn't have such fans. They're less, they're more critic (hey, do you usually read windows help forums? I don't think so) and that's simply because Windows is USEFUL and, yes it does, WORKS! They don't have to tell this on a adv claim. It's a fact.

I'm reading your mind now. All yours.

You think about BSD, error patches and fixes.

My answer is: look at the market share: if Windows was so painful as experience and in work use, it would have been substituited by other.

In industry it is ALWAYS like this. PC or hi-tech markets are not different.

Is there anything/anyone preventing Apple to make a PC version of Leopard? No

Is there anything/anyone preventing PC makers to develop a Windows compatible OS? No

Windows has this market share because it's good and productive AS IT IS.

Sorry, this is not criticism, this i reality: wake up!

I'm sad you don't see this, folks.

June 30, 2008 5:54 AM
 

Snakedoctor1 said:

"This is simply because MS has a far better networking stack than OSX but more importantly"

That is funny, honestly very funny.  

Vista has the WORST network stack on the planet.  From it wonderful file copy speeds, to its LETS FRUSTRATE THE HELL out of users trying to make wireless connections and finally sharing.  Its about 1000X HARDER for Joe User to get Vista/wireless/sharing going compared to XP or OSX.

June 30, 2008 6:57 AM
 

Nickelgreen said:

Snake, how can you say this?

"Vista has the worst network stack of the planet"

How can you proof that? Are you sure. I wouldn't if I were in you (and as a matter of fact, I'm not).

I think exactly the opposite. And in my office I have Vista, Xp and OSX Leopard. The WORST problems are with OSX first (which doesn't see neither other pcs nor the laser printer/photocopier - a todays Ricoh quite easy to configure, I mean, not rocket science, so you can see it doesn not see a "netural" object, a piece of hardware, by default) and with Xp (The Ricoh lan settings for targeting scanned document on specific folders on our pcs do see two vista pcs and three xp pcs. No sign of life from Osx - sorry but that's a fact).

I think that you must upgrade some notion of "network".

Any time I hear/read statements like yours (which, by the way, do always look like religious dogmas without any empirical demonstatrion or detailed episodes)  I assume you do manage your network in 90s style. Manually.

This is insane and "old".

Vista sees ANY connection automatichally. I tried this LOTS of times.

When i manually configured any connections i came into trouble. WHen i started to let the machin do its work, zero problem. And I reall mean ZERO.

I can't tell the same for macs, sorry.

P.S. When you talk about "Vista" pcs, just ensure that they have no third-party software which overrides its functionalities (cfr Defender, Windows Firewall, which are top-notch by themselves and are enough to manage all the job). I tested that Norton (who has been designe for the XP world who lacks lots of utilities that are, instead, present on a Vista machine) is invasive and complex and has to be configured manually. Just erase it and you'll notice the difference.

Otherwise, your statements do not represent a "gold standard" and it sounds like making parallels between potatoes and strawberries (which, as you know, have STRONG botanical differencies).

June 30, 2008 7:17 AM
 

dovella said:

Paul YOU RE GREAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

THX!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

June 30, 2008 7:32 AM
 

Auras said:

@ Snakedoctor1:

There is a saying in my country: If you wouldn't have said anything you would have been (more?) wiser.

"Vista has the WORST network stack on the planet.  From it wonderful [b]file copy[/b] speeds"

This is where you failed.

June 30, 2008 8:03 AM
 

DRWAM said:

As an average Joe, non-IT guy, I have set up two Vista computers [one Mac Pro Tower with Bootcamp]. Vista found the wireless network automatically, and took a couple of 'OK' clicks to allow it to find the network printers.  Vista saw all my Macs on my own network . Tiger worked as well. Leopard did not automatically  find/see the PC's. However, after manually typing the IP address, they all worked flawlessly. After some Leopard updates, all the PC's are found instantly. One problem that I heard from a friend is that Vista SP1 borked his PC so badly that he needed to reinstall. He tried 3 times [archived the old OS, so now he has 3 older copy folders on the HD], until I finally suggested that he turn off auto updates. I did not update to SP1 [I think] unless it does it automatically. The system Control Panel does not show it. Should it?

June 30, 2008 8:07 AM
 

weedmonk said:

Sometimes I feel bad for the Apple Apologists on this blog....some of them write responses that probably longer than the Pauls original post. The sad part is that they don't get paid a nickel for having their tongues lodges so far up Jobs' azz....heck in fact I'd imagine half of them would pay for that 'privilege'.

As far as the article goes...I started the day not knowing or giving a damn who or WTF Randall Stross is or does and thankfully I'll end the day the same way.

June 30, 2008 8:22 AM
 

Dipsh t Admin said:

"Vista has the WORST network stack on the planet.  From it wonderful file copy speeds, to its LETS FRUSTRATE THE HELL out of users trying to make wireless connections and finally sharing.  Its about 1000X HARDER for Joe User to get Vista/wireless/sharing going compared to XP or OSX."

Like nickelgreen, I'd like to see some analysis on how it is the worst networking stack.  And yes, Dave, Vista also has a self-tuning network stack.

And from the Network and Sharing Center, I don't see how turning a few things on or off are somehow harder than XP's method, which is obscure to say the least.  If you use the tried and true methods from XP, you will have a hard time in Vista.

June 30, 2008 8:27 AM
 

Dipsh t Admin said:

"I started the day not knowing or giving a damn who or WTF Randall Stross is or does and thankfully I'll end the day the same way."

I felt the same way ;)

June 30, 2008 8:30 AM
 

lotsamystuff said:

You WinJihadists are so über-sensitive to criticism.

;-)

June 30, 2008 9:19 AM
 

Joe08 said:

I new this was coming, Gates was getting to much attention from the Media and the icabal had to launch an attack to get attention.

June 30, 2008 9:24 AM
 

Nickelgreen said:

Personally i'm more susceptible to idiocy than criticism. These are not criticisms, these are pure fandom ideology.

However, you (all) may think obviously what you want. But you should take a wise example from the underhyped Xp debut (do some web search, please). You guys now defend Xp as an argument against Vista, while in 2001 you were telling it was crap (and copied). I'll wait 3 years, when Win7 will face, just to read you defending Vista as "better OS than Win7". I'm sure it will be like this because it's just appening now as I said before. And i'll repeat that: irony on MS is easy. Too easy.

Is this all you got?

:-))

June 30, 2008 9:36 AM
 

pthurrott said:

So...

Regarding expertise ... I very specifically framed this as "let's leave architecture talks to the experts." More explicitly: I'm not the expert here, but I do know enough to know this guy has no idea what he's talking about. I'm a commentator and reviewer, not an OS architecture guy. And thank God for that.

Regarding sensitivity, sure, and it's about time. Ignoring Apple hasn't worked. It's time to fight back when and where it makes sense to do so. What do I mean by that? There's nothing wrong with OS X. The point isn't attacking OS X or Apple. The point is defending against unwarranted attacks against Windows and being honest about the deficiencies that do exist. Look, there's plenty wrong with Windows. Let's just stick with the facts and not make up problems.

This article is an absolute crock. That it was written by a guy whose writing I frankly enjoy is very troubling to me.

--Paul

June 30, 2008 9:55 AM
 

DRWAM said:

More importantly than this guy of whom I have never read, is the article link in the same page of the NYT. You should all read it:

"Explaining Tim Russert's sudden death'

Personally, I have 3 young cute daughters that will start dating in 8 to 10 yrs, so I need to stay healthy and strong to pummel any boy that tries to take advantage of them.

June 30, 2008 10:08 AM
 

subzerohitman721 said:

Whoh, whoh, whoh!! Guys... Seriously?

Is this worth getting riled about? Randall Stross clear shows he has no clue about Vista and is clearly ignorant about the OS architecture. He completely failed and showed his (Think Carlos Mencia) Dee-Dee-Dee moment when he tied Windows 1, 2, 3x, and the entire 9x code base to Vista? I quite literally fell out of my chair laughing at that remark. My night manager literally asked if I was okay. It was the funniest thing I had heard all week.

Comparing the old Windows codebase to the NT codebase, is like comparing the original line of 20th century Naval cruisers/battleships converted to aircraft carriers, to modernized carriers such as the nuclear powered U.S.S. Enterprise or the Nimitz Class. There is no comparison and Stross make himself look like a fool and an idiot.

OS-X or Vista? WHO CARES!?!?!? Both OSes work just fine for who ever needs it. While I personally think Vista is just a hare better than Leopard, thats my opinion. My opinion on OS-X certainly wouldn't stop me from buying or recommending a Mac to someone who fits the strengths of that OS, except I'm not paying a grand for a PC. OS-X has its strengths and weakness and Vista is the same way.

Now that hardware manufactuers have caught up and figured Vista out, you can get equivalent PC hardware for less. And please, don't give me that its a myth. Just walk into any PC retail store and the sticker prices are clearly marked.

JamesNT, I completely agree with you. All this stuff about monolythic? Did this guy do 3 minutes of research? Who the hell listens to Gartner anymore. Paul has done a fine job of debunking their theories. Give me a more credible research company. Personally I find that IDC and Forrester Research are much more credible firms. Also, I also agree with your comments about apps in Windows. Let the user deterimine what he or she needs. But I do have a bone to pick with Microsoft, as I.E. and WMP are not as easily removeable in Vista. Thats something that should be added in Vista SP2 and Windows Seven.

Speaking of criticisms, didn't we just have a blog here about MS responding to the criticisms? You know the one titled, An Update on the Windows Roadmap? I clearly remember a letter by MS senior vice president Bill Veghte. Clearly Microsoft is listening to the consumers or else it wouldn't still be working to get Vista where it needs to be. Even with XP retiring from the retail shelf, as a huge thank you to all XP customers, they got a service pack 3. If Microsoft wanted to be an a-hole about it, they could have aborted SP3 and let XP die a quick death.

Microsoft clearly gets no respect. They are damned if they do anything good. They are damned if they don't. This last week, Microsoft clearly has earned some respect with Gates retirement and Hyper V to RTM. They do a lot of good things. As a Microsoft customer since 1996, I've been very satisifed customer.

June 30, 2008 10:14 AM
 

daveinla said:

Wow Wincabalist have had it hard on this one...

And then who criticizes iCabalist for making their points with hard facts ? ...

Oh and BTW I forgot about this one (sorry but there were just too many stupid things to be written about and I forgot this one !!)

Paul: "Microsoft is right now working on further componentization of Windows ("MinWin"), a project that could very well result in the type of "just-enough" OS that, no, Apple doesn't have today either"

Yes it is iPhone/iPod OS. But run OSX with just the minimum feature very swiftly and with minimal feature...

June 30, 2008 10:40 AM
 

Dipsh t Admin said:

"Yes it is iPhone/iPod OS. But run OSX with just the minimum feature very swiftly and with minimal feature... "

And to extend this even further, MS has Windows Mobile, which also is a minimum feature set that is very similar to Windows (task manager, registry, etc.).  And they are up to version 6 on that.

In either case, the iPhone OS is not anywhere near a full implementation of OS X as WM is nowhere near Windows.

June 30, 2008 11:28 AM
 

Apparently, the NY Times fact-checkers took the weekend off | Ed Bott’s Windows Expertise | said:

Pingback from  Apparently, the NY Times fact-checkers took the weekend off |  Ed Bott’s Windows Expertise |

June 30, 2008 12:57 PM
 

rozforwindope said:

I don't have an opinion about whether Windows should dump its architecture but it does seem like Apple is innovating in the OS realm faster than MSFT.   Part of this is that they simply have a much smaller audience, their rate of growth, the loyalty of their customer base, and the fact that most of their users are individual consumers, Apple simple does not have the comparable pressure to support legacy hardware and apis. I have a friend who works at Microsoft and he tells me that Microsoft spends a huge amount of resources trying to make sure new releases support really old code for enterprise customers. Apple just does not have to deal with this and moreover, their developer community seems quite happy to follow Apple wherever it goes in terms new OS functionality. The result is that Apple's opportunity allows them to be much more nimble.

But I think Apple also has a technical advantage in terms of faster development.  I am not sure if this is coming from Cocoa or what but Apple seems like they more than MSFT have the power to perfect the user experience much faster than MSFT.

I have not used Vista much but watching the installation of it was a bit shocking to me.  It took 11 hours on my friend's machine.  There were several reboots along the way with really ugly low res screens should really cryptic progress bars. There were many of these.  It just felt like the product of a company struggling under huge constraints. No one would spec such a process unless it was forced on them by technical constraints.  Its that sort of experience that makes me think that MSFT is doing something fundamentally wrong.

June 30, 2008 1:06 PM
 

daveinla said:

You are totally right Roz...

Apple has the advantage to have a pretty dedicated crowed of followers, mainly in the home market.

Furthermore, as illustrated by the Ars article, the developers are very dedicated to the Mac platform also, hence moving their apps quickly along the OSX evolution (only Adobe does a poor job).

You have to give props to MS for rewriting the kernel and making things move in the right way since XP and now Vista, but the reality strikes badly, you can have the best kernel you want, but when the development tools and the APIs don't evolve, you end up with ugly apps and bloated inconsistent OS.

June 30, 2008 1:17 PM
 

Snakedoctor1 said:

I moonlight for a friend of mine, who has business that supports the SBS community.  Mostly small shops with 50 or less in various professions, Dr's, Law Firms, real estate offices, insurance offices.  Most have SBS2003 some have 2-3 servers if they run a TS based app.  All have wireless networks.

In SB world you have alot of notebooks that go back an forth from home to work.  SB owners go buy a new PC with Vista and of course have problems with VHP being part of a domain, so they just manually map stuff (drives and printers), or often they want to roll back to XP.

Since the release of Vista I have experienced many occasions where a Vista machine will throw "Connected with limited access" after it had been working for a few weeks or more.  The diagnose and repair will do nothing 98% of the time and is all cases XP machines and the few Macs I have setup are just fine.  I have also often seen a perfectly working Vista machine go home and come back and now its switched for whatever reason from "work" to "public" networking and of course that all but kills sharing.

To fix this I have done many things, to include removing network adapters in device manager, updating drivers, flashing firmware on routers believe it or not.  The router issue is truley a site to see.  Vista will say "connected local and internet" and can ping the default gateway of the router, nslookup boxes on the local network but just not go past the router to the internet.  Flashing the router or in rare cases replacing it fixes the problem for Vista, even though OSX and XP work just fine.

My only experience with OS X in these environments has been with new Leopard machines.  There is one doctors office in particular that is moving to all Mac (Mini's and Macbook) that has a SBS 2003 server.  They started in Jan of this year.  OS X when it first boots up on pop's box in the middle of the screen showing the wireless network choices to connect to.  Put in the WPA key and your off.  I can see how much easier it can be??  OS X also sees all of the printers/shares on the SBS2003 server just like the XP clients.  This is one of the networks where Vista has had a problems.

Oh and dont get me started on that "Calculating" network slowness Vista had for a good year.  It does seem a lot better since SP1, but not as fast as XP or OS X to copy the same data.

So yes in comparison, Vista's network stack from my experience has been much worse compared to XP or OS X (leopard only for me).  

June 30, 2008 1:37 PM
 

DRWAM said:

There are many compelling arguments, but you just can't add them up to anything. Consumer Reports mention that Mac owners have fewer problems, and all the love for Steve is not going to make someone give a computer good marks if it is unreliable. On the other hand, most small and large vendors that used Macs in the past, dumped them for Windows, and a few Linux. As stated by many, it a matter of personal taste. It's funny how everyone has a perception about posters. I kinda see Paul as a Mac fan as he's is constantly recommending to buy [much more than me]. When asked, I find out what the persons needs and budget is before recommending a computer and OS. Most of my employees should just get sub-$1000 computers, while others could use Macs for other uses, especially those with adolescents that use P2P too much. Me and my wife and kids can use either a PC or Mac for our needs, but they have PC's in all of our schools and I use one app that requires Windows, so we have more PC's. Either way, it's your own preference.

June 30, 2008 2:19 PM
 

Snakedoctor1 said:

Budget is probably the #1 factor for most.  Then again putting a price tag on frustration from problems, from OS or self induced (malware) is something people should consider, but very hard to quantify.

Most of those Visa users I talk to as those SB, continue to use it, even though most dont like it and or just dont care either way.  The computer is a tool, and they just want it to work.  A few have said they like the way it looks:)  

June 30, 2008 2:29 PM
 

daveinla said:

Doc: the Mac has the same P2P softs as the PCs. only they carry different names. But it won't take long for the kids to figure that out...

When you have young kids like I do, I feel a little more comfortable letting them browse the web and play online games on the Mac. They click on tons of stuff and sometimes downloads .exe stuff in don't know where they come from...

Of course they have a limited rights account on our Vista machine but still...

And of course both our Macs and PCs do the same thing at home. Networking them is super smooth and pain-free. But as already said, my wife and I have preference for the Macs that are used as our main machines as we found the softs much more elegant and practical. But as Doc says, it's a matter of taste... and money !

June 30, 2008 2:33 PM
 

pthurrott said:

Daveinla: You're right RE: the iPhone. That is definitely a thin and light version of OS X. Granted, you can't run it on a PC, so it's more like Windows XP Embedded or whatever, but same theory. And it harkens back to my original comment: Let's just agree that Vista/Server 2008 (i.e. "Windows"), UNIX/Linux, and UNIX/OS X--are all modern, scalable, and capable OSes. Because they are.

June 30, 2008 2:55 PM
 

sbrown23 said:

Wow Roz ... that's just pathetic.

"I have not used Vista much but watching the installation of it was a bit shocking to me.  It took 11 hours on my friend's machine.  There were several reboots along the way with really ugly low res screens should really cryptic progress bars. There were many of these.  It just felt like the product of a company struggling under huge constraints. No one would spec such a process unless it was forced on them by technical constraints.  Its that sort of experience that makes me think that MSFT is doing something fundamentally wrong."

You are friggin kidding, right?  One experience, and all of a sudden the entire architecture is fundamentally wrong?  What the hell?  The world revolves around you and your friend?  Not to mention that I have a hard time believing that the OS install took 11 hours in the first place.  Not gonna happen.  More like a iFanatic tossing around some FUD just to add fuel to the fire and make Vista look bad.

Vista installed on my home system in 15 minutes.  All hardware detected successfully, everything working great.  Therefore, by your logic ... everyone's experience with Vista installation is spectacular, and there is very little room for improvement.  Way to go Microsoft!  Your work is complete.

June 30, 2008 4:30 PM
 

DRWAM said:

sbrown, while you are correct about generalization, [and I personally installed Vista 3 times,taking less than 30 minutes] a person can generalize based on one experience. For example, my wife bought a VW Jetta. It just stopped running on multiple occasions, including on a trip to New York. The dealer could not find the problem, and wasn't very nice [before we met. trust me, if you saw me, you would know that I would not let this happen]. She traded it in [she told me that she was practically praying that it would get her to the dealer without ceasing]. Now she feels that all VW's are junk and will never own one. I was forbidden to look at the Touareg. My big bro had several VW's.

June 30, 2008 6:54 PM
 

rozforwindope said:

I don't think I drew any generalizations, I was stating my opinion.  I was shocked by the number of reboots and the weird low res screens showing really hard to understand, hard to read progress bars and information. It just looked bad to me. The process did take all night for us.  It may have hung for all I know.  I fully admit I have very little experience with Windows but I felt like it all looked bad.  Something is wrong there.  On the other hand OSX seems to get sharper and sharper.  Its one person's opinion of course.

How many restarts did it take for your "30 minute" install?  Did you see the really low res screens I am talking about?  I am not making that up.

June 30, 2008 9:07 PM
 

Snakedoctor1 said:

Vista on a modern machine if actually faster than XP.  I re load Vista on any family member that gets a new PC, usually a notebook.  The whole experience is so much better with a clean install and minus all of the craplets.

Example, my wifes Notebook HP6426 US, well initially I reloaded it the day she got it with VHP.  It was a snap, it found all the hardware.  Once up and running on the network it started updating.  Well after awhile she wanted XP back.

XP took a long time, even had to plug in a USB floppy so I could do a F6 driver install just to see the hard drive.  Anyhow once XP was done, none of the drivers were there at all.  In fact HP did not have all of them, I had to find them from the Intel and others.

However once it was up and running is was smoking fast compared to Vista, and the battery life was very extendid.

June 30, 2008 9:43 PM
 

johnpapola said:

@Nickelgreen,

"We are really talking about A THREE PERCENT MARKET system "superiority" (4% if you add Linux in whatsoever distro or "this world" incarnation)? Are all of you serious? Don't even (sometimes, not all days) cross your mind that if Windows has this monopoly there is a practical reason?"

Wow.  Looks like you're reading straight from the dustiest pages of the WinCabal playbook.  Since when has market share alone been proof of technological superiority?  Betamax was MUCH better than VHS.  It still lost.

You have nothing to contribute to the conversation if "look at the marketshare" is all you can repeat for 5 paragraphs.  I can go ahead and recount the history of Windows if you like to kill that sorry argument dead.  How Microsoft started off by inheriting IBM's monopoly, then leveraged it using aggressive and later illegal tactics to shut out competitors.  But that's all been well documented for anyone interested in knowing the truth and ACTUAL reality.

Wake up indeed, my friend.

June 30, 2008 11:19 PM
 

Dude1313 said:

sbrown23 said:

Wow Roz ... that's just pathetic.

......

You are friggin kidding, right?  One experience, and all of a sudden the entire architecture is fundamentally wrong?  What the hell?  The world revolves around you and your friend?  .....

"Werp, Werp, Logical Fallacy Alert, Logical Fallacy Alert!"

Oh you mean like Windods-Jihadists who claim that "Mac Sux" when the last time they used one was 1993? Or more commonly they have never used one, but feel qualified to past judgment on them.

Not pointing out you as an example (you may have used one for all I know), but there are plenty of people who rant about the Mac and have never touched one.

July 1, 2008 7:24 AM
 

DRWAM said:

I underastand Roz. I noticed several reboots during Vista installation, but did not bother sitting in front of the computer during it. I installed twice on my Mac as the first was to check if it was worth installing [vs XP], I then deleted Home Premium and bought Ultimate. After several reboots,  [I checked on it a few times] it took under 30 minutes. keep in mind thatb this was a 3GHz Quad Pro Tower. However, I installed Vista Home Premium in my  home built 3.4 GHz P4 which also took less than 30 minutes, but I did not bother checking to see how many times it rebooted as it was my twins birthday and we were busy. The disc was borrowed so I had to doi it quickly. Later, I deleted the Vista partition [did not activate it as it was not my disc]. Unfortunately, I was no longer able to boot from the XP partition, which was ion another hard drive, even after I tried a few utilities, so I just reinstalled XP. I did not think to try to repair the MBR with the XP install disc as I tried a couple utilites which did not work and seemed to  ake things worse. Don't get mote wrong, as i like Home Premium, but it was not worth the upgrade on a computer that I rarely use since I bought the Mac Pro Tower and installed Vista on it.

July 1, 2008 8:47 AM
 

johnpapola said:

Paul,

I completely agree with you that this article is complete garbage.  I'm technical enough to recognize a collection of regurgitated "common knowledge" with no technical backing.  I'm really not even sure why this worthless article was written.  It's essentially the cliff-notes version of that Gartner report.

Daveinla pointed to some far more useful articles, like the developer oriented one at ars, which you seem to have 100% ignored.  Should we assume that it's true?  If so, the conclusion regarding Microsoft's APIs sounds pretty similar to the "old and crusty" conclusion of this craptastic NYTimes piece.  I guess your loyal WinCabal here at the supersite will never know.

So, agreed, this article is pure crap.  As for the New York Times being part of an underground conspiracy group to attack Microsoft... not sure where you're getting that information.  I've resigned myself to the fact that "icabal" is your pathetic way of "fighting back" against anything Apple-related you don't like.  It's a sad, dorky silly way to approach discourse, but you sure seem to LOVE IT!

Funny, David Pogue was pretty critical of the iPhone.  I guess the power of the iCabal isn't all encompassing.

So who is going to "fight back" for the absolute LIES Rob Enderle spreads about Apple throughout the hundreds of WinCabal hack articles he's quoted in?  He's like the grand Wizard of WinCabal FUD.  I recall one particularly ridiculous WinCabal lie foisted by Enderle regarding Microsoft writing large parts of the original Mac OS.  HA.  Pure lies that get quoted and spread like wild fire.  THAT needs people to fight back for their tiny minority platform.

I especially like the idea that a monopolist with 95% marketshare should feel compelled to "fight back" against their much smaller rival.  That's something I'm sure would go over really well with the folks.  Hoorah Goliath!  You tell that puny David who's boss!  I can see it now.  People hate an underdog.  Oh wait.  no.  You can't have it both ways, Paul.  You can't routinely point out how small Apple is in desktops and then rant and rave about the need to "fight back".

As for "Tablet Edition" or "Media Center Edition" being the equivolent to an OSX release... give me a break.  Seriously.  That is just as technically ludicrous as this article.  Media Center is just an application. The move from each OSX release to the next has had major user features and significant OS technology and API improvements.

Same goes for Tablet.  that's not an OS.  Sorry.  That's the same XP with some extensions on top to support ink.

All that

July 1, 2008 9:08 AM
 

johnpapola said:

Oh, and I'd clump Fast Company magazine into the WinCabal, BIG TIME!   They've written numerous length Apple-bashing articles where the core premise was based on lies.  One even claimed that Apple's business was untenable because it had the lowest operating margins in the industry.  Seriously.  It was a cover story. Thats the WinCabal at work.

July 1, 2008 9:17 AM
 

mikegalos@msn.com said:

Of course, since the Windows NT family from Windows NT 3.1 through Windows Vista and Windows Server 2008 and, apparently, Windows "7" are all modern, microkernel based operating systems, you have to wonder who would write that long a screed based entirely on a premise they could have found out was wrong with even the most basic of research.

When Windows NT came out it had:

Microkernel

OS personalities

Symmetric multiprocessing

Cross platform architecture

Virtual memory management

Journaling file system

Unicode native

ACL based object security (at "C-level")

Software RAID

IBM tried to produce an equivalent modern OS with Workstation OS and failed

Apple tried to produce an equivalent modern OS with Copland and Gershwin and failed

IBM and Apple joined forces to produce an equivalent  modern OS with Taligent "Pink" and failed

Eventually, IBM gave up the OS business and Apple gave up trying to write a  modern OS and fell back to adding modern features on top of a Unix implementaiton

July 1, 2008 4:17 PM
 

mikegalos@msn.com said:

Of course, since the Windows NT family from Windows NT 3.1 through Windows Vista and Windows Server 2008 and, apparently, Windows "7" are all modern, microkernel based operating systems, you have to wonder who would write that long a screed based entirely on a premise they could have found out was wrong with even the most basic of research.

When Windows NT came out it had:

Microkernel

OS personalities

Symmetric multiprocessing

Cross platform architecture

Virtual memory management

Journaling file system

Unicode native

ACL based object security (at "C-level")

Software RAID

IBM tried to produce an equivalent modern OS with Workstation OS and failed

Apple tried to produce an equivalent modern OS with Copland and Gershwin and failed

IBM and Apple joined forces to produce an equivalent  modern OS with Taligent "Pink" and failed

Eventually, IBM gave up the OS business and Apple gave up trying to write a  modern OS and fell back to adding modern features on top of a Unix implementaiton

July 1, 2008 4:18 PM
 

johnpapola said:

You're almost right.  Apple fell back to buying NeXT who most of these things long before Windows NT (actually before Win 95 came out) and happened to be founded by Steve Jobs.  For the record.  

And OSX is way more than just a unix flavor.  Spend some time with John Siracusa's review at arstechnica to see how different it is.

Still, the point that Vista is modern is of course accurate.  Now what about those legacy API's and registry?

July 1, 2008 8:47 PM
 

mikegalos@msn.com said:

@johnpapola

Yes, NeXTStep had already done a lot of bolting modern OS features onto Unix before Apple bought a solution to their problem of being unable to build a modern OS. Unfortuately, they threw some fairly important chunks of it away in the process.

As for NeXTStep predating Windows 95. Yes, it did. Of course, so did Windows NT. Not "long before" but, legitimately aroud 3-4 years. (Microsoft was still mired in all the joint development work with IBM at the time fighting IBM about thigs like whether to support the features of the 386)

As for legacy APIs, having them available is what allows for all those older applications that still run. Microsoft doesn't force people to use the old APIs but it's in the best interest of the customers to keep them around. Microsoft actually spends a fair chunk of money to encourage ISVs to move to the newer APIs but abandoning exactly the customers who committed to using your product early isn't how Microsoft works. With the growth of Hyper-V and other virtualization techniques, the need for legacy support in the core OS fades away so that will now be able to change without hurting customers.

And, lastly, the registry is actually a brilliant design that allows for more granularity of security, tighter access control, cleaner remote access, separation of machine vs domain, vs user settings and better redundancy than text config files. There are some solid reasons why the registry replaced text config files. It's not as though Microsoft didn't know about those. Remember the hell of autoexec.bat, config.sys, win.ini, system.ini and dozens of application *.ini files scattered around? Ever try to manage them for hundreds of machines? Not pretty.

July 1, 2008 9:20 PM
 

johnpapola said:

I do remember the bad old days of autoexec.bat and config.sys.  But I also seem to remember having a very hard time with cleaning software out of the system in Windows 95 and beyond among other problems.  Remove an app, restart, get an error message at login that seemed impossible to eliminate without re-installing the system.

And then there was Win-rot.  Have Vista improved on the steady and inevitable decline of a system's performance over time, eventually demanding a clean re-install?

These are the problems that disappeared when I moved to the Mac (among others).  Not to say that OSX is perfect, but it does feel more understandable and modular.  The system folder structure is very straight-forward with very clearly named files (not left over 8.3 indecipherable stuff) and the way app preferences are store is amazing (and allows awesome syncing with .mac in leopard).

To a former hardcore Windows guy turned mac fanatic, it sure seems like OSX's architecture is more modern, clean and robust.  Not necessarily more stable or secure, but definitely less bound to legacy.

July 2, 2008 8:02 AM