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That manifesto does a pretty good job of explaining why some of us have spent our lives toiling in the software mines.

Thanks to Microsoft for the reminder.

Thanks to Paul for getting that reminder coverage.

What was the point of the Seinfeld ads?

That second to last print ad is very well done.

It's about time those of us in the PC world start to show what we are all about.

I suppose they became so much a part of our lives that we really didnt see anything special about them. But we are, as pc users doing great things, big and small, everyday.

We are not some cartoonish dork in a brown coat!

Can't wait to see what they've come up with. So far, I'm really liking MS's approach to humanize the Windows PC.

The Seinfeld/Gates ads were pulled because they bombed.  The did not set up this latest attempt Microsoft is undertaking.

It is painfully obvious the Seinfeld Gates ads were attempting to set it up, but due to the negative press (Do a Google News search), it was pulled.

I found it irritating that they (the super humans that they are) connected with "ordinary lemmings".

Financial markets are crashing around us, and Seinfeld is quipping that he gets lost in his own traffic.  Inappropriate.

My two cents anyway.

We'll see if the new round of ads is any more effective.

Here's to the crazy stuff.

This marketing copy is paper thin. There is no organic reality behind it.

"The Seinfeld/Gates ads were pulled because they bombed.  The did not set up this latest attempt Microsoft is undertaking."

They were not pulled because they bombed. They weren't even pulled.

"My two cents anyway."

Got what you paid for.

Sorry for the double posting. I thought my comment was more appropriate here:

@Mike: "The amount of press material at Microsoft's press pass shows this is well coordinated."

Also all the celebrities that they've signed up. The likes of Ina Freid may pat themselves on the back for having derailed the old campaign, but it does look like this has been planned for a while. Of course, facts are not something that many of these tech reporters and gossip sites like Engadget and Gizmodo really care about. Someone said the other day, "the plural of anecdotal is not data." Well, for many of these reporters, that does seem to be the case.

I like the third image from the top. :-)

@scoobyclub

"organic reality"?

Can you elaborate on what you are even talking about?

This is kinda saying whats already known  ---> given that Apples marketshare is >5%.

Yes, I liked the second to last one too.

Plus the print ads showing actions across several screens of Windows devices.

Interesting - it seems that Microsoft will take the "high road" and not directly slam Apple (like Apple slams Vista), but simply say "this is what we're about".  Bravo.

The Seinfeld/Gates ads kept me saying...'uh...wha'?"

FromComputerworld.com:

Seinfeld ads end as Microsoft turns to reclaim 'I'm a PC' slur from Apple

After negative reactions to recent ads, Microsoft takes new direction

The long, oft-baffling "teaser" ads" by Microsoft Corp. featuring Jerry Seinfeld and Bill Gates that kicked off two weeks ago are abruptly ending, the company said late Wednesday, as Part 2 of its $300 million Windows marketing rehab campaign begins.

computerworld.com/.../article.do

OT:

Pogue gave the new Zunes the thumbs up:

>>Clearly, what Microsoft spent the year working on was software. Generously enough, it’s giving a free upgrade to owners of earlier Zune models — all six of you.

--

Yet for hard-core music lovers, it’s a gem. The Zune blows the iPod off the map in music discovery and downloading.<<

Speaking of the FM tag and download he says:

>>It’s addictive, awesome and completely natural. What better way to discover new performers and songs than listening to the radio? <<

www.nytimes.com/.../18pogue.html

@scoobyclub:

Yea, right!!

Crowing "Vista still doesn't work !! Why don't they fix it once and for all?" ad nauseum almost two years later has organic reality behind it?

Big ooops.  Given that Apples marketshare is <5%.

"Good stuff. And a sharp contrast to the what the other guy is doing. Humanity vs. smugness. Which side are you going to choose?"

Good for them. Any hint of negativity will earn them criticism from the "tech pundits". Actually, anything Microsoft does will earn them criticism from them.

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Yep Sharkster, media will jump all over MS if they did negative ads. It's smart to portray the high road, and improve image. Somebody friggin write the ad company and tell them to show a friggin doctor using MS products to save lives and improve health!! You can also tell them that you know this handsome well built, seasoned doctor that will do it for free, or for two more Vista Ultimate licenses:)

"Actually, anything Microsoft does will earn them criticism from them."

And therein lies the rub.

So the Seinfeld ad was not, as Paul put it, "Obviously, ... just the first of many"?

Good Lord. Ten Million to Seinfeld for those two lame ads. Unbelievable.

And, mikegalos, I thought Microsoft paid very little attention to Apple?

Looks like those Apple ads got under their skin after all. You know what they say...if something someone says gets under your skin and bothers you, they're either really right or really wrong. Why would Microsoft care what the "Mac Guy" says about "PC Guy"? None of it was a lie, so I guess it must be the truth that has them so upset. The only reason those ads have been such a success is because they have the unmistakable ring of truth.

Or as Gruber put it today, "Directly responding to Apple’s campaign is weak. It’s playing Pepsi to Apple’s Coke, Burger King to Apple’s McDonald’s. It’s an explicit acknowledgment that Microsoft is the second-place brand."

Yeah. "epic struggle" indeed.

And at the end, the Doc or Joe Smoe, have Live Calendar send a reminder of some guys wedding anniversary, then thank his PC, then the screen has Bill G pop up or the 'PC Guy' say, Your welcome. Don't worry, we got you covered., and wink. The end. Heck, just have the ad company call me.

For just half a million, I will disconnect all the driver cables for my Pro Tower, giving the gray screen, and do a commercial saying 'What again, back to Vista'. I'll do it, please tell them. OK, just for $250,000. Please Billy, hire me!!!!!

Dipsh t Admin  said:

"Actually, anything Microsoft does will earn them criticism from them."

And therein lies the rub.

**************************************

And why is that? Some would have one believe its all manufactured by the "iCabalist press".

On the other hand there are probably people and many companies out there that would beg to differ on that, many of whom don't have a kind word for Apple either.  In short whose at fault for MS' image?

@Raaj. Don't know whether you are agreeing/or disagreeing. I have hardly ever mentioned Vista cause I don't use it.

Organic reality is when the products grow out of a real human passion and spirit in a natural way and guides the company in everything it does. As Apple would say, it's in our DNA. In general organic refers to that which occurs and grows naturally.

This kind of marketing says this is what we want people to think we are even when the culture within the company bears no relation to it. And. We are going to spend $300 million dollars until they damn well believe it.

Come on, we've all been on corporate induction days where they describe the core values of the company only to later discover that when push comes to shove they are not quite so core after all.

Wow! All right--here's what I was waiting for. I didn't quite get the Seinfeld ads, but this is right on target. Go Microsoft!

"For just half a million, I will disconnect all the driver cables for my Pro Tower, giving the gray screen, and do a commercial saying 'What again, back to Vista'. I'll do it, please tell them. OK, just for $250,000. Please Billy, hire me!!!!!"

I'd pay $10 to see losta do it.  ;)

How long before Apple responds with an ad making fun of this...

Microsoft copying Apple again... with the "original" PC Guy (John Hodgman) making fun of this sad imitation.

I have a feeling Apples ad writers are already salivating at the possibilities.

lotsa's response is a typical case of "damned if you do, damned if you don't" that's also evident in the mainstream "tech pundits". The Seinfeld ads were were called weak because Apple had nothing to "fear". Where do they mention Apple in the ads, they asked. And now that Microsoft is unveiling a phase 2, which targets the image that Apple has tried to create of Windows, they call the campaign "weak" because Microsoft is responding to Apple.

Doc,  maybe you should have Mike or Paul put in a word for you. :-)

Really good stuff.

"The only reason those ads have been such a success is because they have the unmistakable ring of truth."

Is that why political attack ads work? Wow! So, all of them must have an "unmistakeable ring of truth to them".

Apple's ads work because the media is not taking them to task for lying or pointing out the hypocrisy in their ads.

It's about F'n time. And for all the goons out there not understanding the Gates/Seinfeld ads need to take a second look and listen, not just watch the shiney pictures.

Umm yeah those Jerry/Bill spots were mildly funny and but a complete disaster unless you wanted to sell conquistador shoes.

Every media outlet I read, even non-technical ones said the same thing.  Even if MS planned this all along (fire that person now) no one is going to believe them.  This will go down as a failed ad campaign that MS pulled.

That said the print adds look great, especially the pictures showing an object moving across multiple platforms.

Now Apple could so easily play off these new adds with "and I am Mac" and go on to show all kinds of people using Macs in all walks of life, to include many famous people.  The could also put out a print add showing something going across a iMac, Macbook and iPhone/iPod.

Good luck MS.  I would have held up a sign that said "Windows rules and Mac drools" for 1/10th of what they paid Jerry:)

@kalewallace   "need to take a second look and listen"  Dont go into marketing.  

You dont get a second chance, a tv spot has to hit home, and since the 98% of people did not get it, the add failed.

@lotsa

Nice try.  Apple ads got under their skin?  Yeah, often times when others flat out lie or horribly misrepresent you, it does get under your skin.  It would be completely understandable in my opinion.  And yes, Apple lied.

Also, I must echo others on here that MS was criticized for not mentioning Apple at first, and now criticized for being weak and addressing "I'm a PC".  Which is it?  Can you anti-MS zealots make up your mind?

I love this new campaign.  Makes it seem like Apple has a little-d*ck complex and is lashing out to compensate.  

"How long before Apple responds with an ad making fun of this...

Microsoft copying Apple again... with the "original" PC Guy (John Hodgman) making fun of this sad imitation.

I have a feeling Apples ad writers are already salivating at the possibilities.

"

Really. Just kinds of reinforces the view people have of Apple's ads.

Apple ads polarizes and offends.

Microsoft's ads exposes the derangement of  Apples most extreme users and media sycophants, by being worlds more cheerful and uplifting.

By using Apple's negative stereotype of a PC user as a bridge to show how silly it is, Apple fanatics now are once again flying off the deep end, and Im sure will spew righteous indignation the minute they get video of this ad.

@ Lindy - "Now Apple could so easily play off these new adds with "and I am Mac" and go on to show all kinds of people using Macs in all walks of life, to include many famous people.  The could also put out a print add showing something going across a iMac, Macbook and iPhone/iPod."

Oh great, I'd love to see an Apple "me too" campaign.  That would be hilarious.  Except that Apple's "platform" cannot match the breadth of the Windows platform.

"Humanity vs. smugness. Which side are you going to choose?"

Looks like people are choosing just about as expected.

@ kirrk - "Microsoft copying Apple again... with the "original" PC Guy (John Hodgman) making fun of this sad imitation."

Is it copying when the intent is not to imitate, but to expose the idiocy of the original?

@Master3 - "By using Apple's negative stereotype of a PC user as a bridge to show how silly it is, Apple fanatics now are once again flying off the deep end, and Im sure will spew righteous indignation the minute they get video of this ad."

Well said, sir.  Well said.

Or

"This epic struggle explains why we make what we make and do what we do. The thing that gets us out of bed every day is the prospect of creating pathways above, below, around and through walls. To start a dialogue between hundreds of devices, billions of people and a world of ideas. * To life up the smallest of us. And catapult the most audacious of us. But, most importantly, to connect all of us to the four corners of our own digital lives and to each other. To go on doing the little stuff, the big stuff, the crazy stuff and that ridiculously necessary stuff. On our own or together. * This is more than software we're talking about. It's an approach to life. An approach dedicated to engineering the absence of anything that might stand in the way...of life. * Today, more than one billion people worldwide have Windows. Which is just another way of saying we have each other."

versus

"Computers all suck but if you use Windows you're a loser 'cause they suck more, dude."

I'd say that pretty much sums it up.

I like this angle of "i'm a PC, and I'm not a contentious cartoon of a businessman"

Could be interesting.

And, on the Doc's line, for a small fee, I'll happilly let them use images or video from one of our music or post production studios, which run an assortment of windows machines ;-)

MS is preaching to the choir, the choir composed of  MS devotees offended by the PC guy. The cash spent is insignificant, and if that crowd feels propped up and empowered, that's fine. But if you find the PC guy amusing on the Apple ads, and then see an imitation of same for MS, it brings you right back to the Apple message. I wouldn't feature an icon from a competitor in ads targeting that same competitor.

That said, MS pumps out new products all the time, and does a lousy job of promoting them to the average user. This "ad campaign" feels more like a public service announcement trumpeting how virtuous and wonderful MS is.

Switch to Vista from OSX? Not in your life, and these ads, at least until now, provide no reason to consider doing so. Apple goes for the jugular. MS doesn't.

What, ad campaigns are deceptive, manipulative and misleading? You heard it here first. Every tv ad is that, and more. Taking umbrage at Apple for being in that world seems naive.

In these tough times, MS ought to consider going after Apple on price/value/features. You can make a case there.

This is pretty risky business.  That ad copy is very nice and warm and fuzzy and all that.  Great.  That print ad is a beautiful bit of praise for the motivations of Microsoft's employees and a softball bit of brand work.

But, I don't think consumers are going to buy into the notion of Windows as a human mission for them in their purchase.  It's certainly not going to be effective for the audience of people with whom Apple's ads resonate.  That is to say, people having problems with Windows.  People looking for a change.  

That is who Apple has always been targeting and the fact that it has had such a large impact on Microsoft's brand perception (if the ads are in fact the cause) has been lucky collateral damage for their competitor in software.

Still, if MS can succeed in getting people to feel warm and fuzzy, mission accomplished.  That feeling won't survive the first call to tech support.

Product is brand.  Nothing can change that.

This "I'm a PC" ad is both dangerous and clever.  Dangerous because it is inherently an admission that Microsoft's brand is playing second fiddle to Apple's.  Not the product marketshare, the brand.  That's well known at this point and this ad will reinforce that.  And though Apple's ads are funny and glib, they each carry a specific product message.  Most are not fluffy brand bullsh1t.

The clever thing about this campaign is the way it perverts the Apple ads and may reinforce the false idea that Apple is calling PC users dorky losers, instead of the PC itself.  Many of you have made this incorrect claim as justification for your bizarre umbrage taking.  But it is false.  John Hodgeman's character represents he PC itself.  A windows-based computer.  The character is not a proxy for users.  Period.

But since this Microsoft ad is picking up that dork umbrage and running with it, it could magnify it.  These people saying "I'm a PC" are really saying  "I'm a PC user".  The scooba diver isn't a metaphor for PC that gets used under water.  He is saying that he uses a PC.

So there is some subtly dishonest conflation here, but it is clever and could work to Microsoft's advantage. I can't wait to see the spot.  It looks like softball, sappy montage stuff from these screen-grabs, but maybe it'll be great.  I reserve final judgement.

“One of the really fun things we’ve done is to create a series of ads called ‘I’m a PC’--and we’re enabling every PC user to upload their own I’m a PC spot,” he says. “So you can upload it and we’ll publish it and amplify it on windows.com … and then we’ll do better than that – we’ll publish some of those I’m a PC spots in places like digital billboards in Times Square.”

Yep. This is going to be fun.

I said on 9/12:

"Some will dislike it no matter what, and MS knows that.  What I find weird is that many say that they should have attacked Apple head on.  Does anyone feel that would have been a good idea?  Of course, they would have been blasted for doing that, probably by those same people that say they should be making attack ads."

Dude, this is what I'm talking about.  Plenty have asked for blood.  Many of those same people will then chastise MS for taking blood if they were to go down that route.  Having not seen the video yet, I'll hold my judgment until that time.  However, it does not seem that they are mentioning Apple at all, but are more or less attacking the negative perceptions that have been personified by the Apple ads.  That's fair game, because, they have stated repeatedly that a negative aura exists, and letting that aura fester does not improve the brand.

And while I don't know the plans involved in the campaign, we have seen that the first two Seinfeld/Gates mini movies translate in to 5-10 different commercials.  That's good to keep everyone (ie, not the tech press or geeks) occupied and hit them with the meat.  I wouldn't be surprised to see Seinfeld and Gates to return, kind of as closure, saying something to the effect of, hey, we've connected to the people, with enough self deprecation to make it humorous and lighthearted.

At least wait till you watch the TV spots, people. Don't jump to conclusions. That's the reason I liked this NY Times article - the author makes no assumptions and doesn't jump to any conclusions. Very unbiased reporting.

www.nytimes.com/.../18adco.html

@ LC21

"MS is preaching to the choir, the choir composed of  MS devotees offended by the PC guy. The cash spent is insignificant, and if that crowd feels propped up and empowered, that's fine. But if you find the PC guy amusing on the Apple ads, and then see an imitation of same for MS, it brings you right back to the Apple message. I wouldn't feature an icon from a competitor in ads targeting that same competitor."

Why not? The stereotype is offensive and dishonest. Exactly what is Apple going to do, run an add defending a stereotype?

"Oh, oh, PC people really are dorks!"

And who exactly do you think will respond to that other than Apple devotees?

"That said, MS pumps out new products all the time, and does a lousy job of promoting them to the average user. This "ad campaign" feels more like a public service announcement trumpeting how virtuous and wonderful MS is."

Ok. And? As long as they are positive , good for them. A good brand name creates a "halo effect" that sells that companies products. Remember?

"Switch to Vista from OSX? Not in your life, and these ads, at least until now, provide no reason to consider doing so. Apple goes for the jugular. MS doesn't."

Apple users amount to 7% of ALL computer users. This is after all of their ads that, need we remind you, dont actually give me a reason to like OSX. Who cares if they dont switch.

Despite what they think, they are not more coveted than everyone else.

That is just a myth that has been drilled into their head that they then project back at everyone else through their trademark smug arrogance.

In deciding whether to choose humanity or smugness, I will choose a product which best suits my needs.

@Lindy

Marketing, eh? Well, in my opinion, these commercials had a dual purpose. One to get the regular old blind-leading-the-blind American a new look at the "straightlaced" Windows world. Second to have hidden connotations for us nerds commenting on the said commercial. Last time I checked, these are getting quite a bit of chatter on tech sites...

Was it the best? Probably not. Are we still talking about it? Yep.  =success.

"Is that why political attack ads work? Wow! So, all of them must have an "unmistakeable ring of truth to them"."

Dude, don't quote me and then introduce a spelling error. Please...

But to your point, political attack ads are there primarily to appeal to the candidate's base, and reinforce the idea that the other guy/gal is bad, and therefore, you're right to support your guy/gal.

And as to this "smug" BS y'all are so injudiciously tossing around...what a crock. The "Mac guy" in those commercials isn't smug. He's kind to PC, tries to help him out, and never rude. The "Mac" in those commercials is neither smug nor smarmy. As I wrote elsewhere, any perception otherwise is simply a matter of psychological projection on the part of insecure PC users.

lotsa

It's hard to be condescending without being smug in the first place.

From the article in NY Times:

"Trying to gain more firepower for ads by generating talk in the popular culture is another tactic of Crispin Porter’s. For example, commercials for Volkswagen became the subject of considerable buzz because they showed something rarely depicted in auto advertising: sudden crashes.

That was what the two-week Microsoft teaser campaign accomplished, according to companies that track discussions about brands.

At first, “the ads were ambiguous and confounding to some,” said Ted Marzilli, senior vice president and general manager of the brand group at the New York office of YouGovPolimetrix, a research company, but as they continued they helped improve perceptions about Microsoft."

@Mike:  tsk, tsk...

"Here's to the crazy ones.The misfits.The rebels.

The troublemakers. The round pegs in the square holes.

The ones who see things differently.

They're not fond of rules.

And they have no respect for the status quo.

You can praise them, disagree with them, quote them,

disbelieve them, glorify or vilify them.

About the only thing you can't do is ignore them.

Because they change things.

They invent.    They imagine.    They heal.

They explore.    They create.    They inspire.

They push the human race forward.

Maybe they have to be crazy.

How else can you stare at an empty canvas and see a work of art?

Or sit in silence and hear a song that's never been written?

Or gaze at a red planet and see a laboratory on wheels?

We make tools for these kinds of people.

While some see them as the crazy ones,

  we see genius.

Because the people who are crazy enough to think

they can change the world, are the ones who do."

Apple has already been there, done that. You'd think with all the money MS Spent at least they could come up with an original idea.

Remember: support rational thinking... all those phrases (Apple's and now MS's) are just Kool-Aid for the masses.

I don't know. From the first Mac/PC commercial it sure seemed to me that the Mac guy was smug. He may not "be" smug but he sure comes off as smug.

arosania- I was wondering when someone else was going to notice that... :)

arosania

I was being kind by not pointing out how far Apple and their fans have fallen since they aspired to be "the crazy ones" and instead became the lockstep clones hanging on Dear Leader's every utterance.

Humanity vs smugness?

Smugness all the way, if you define that as the absence of negatives such as (for now) malware, spyware, trojans, crapware, worms, bots, and viruses. And, Macs got my kids through school with a minimum of effort from this tech support person, not counting the orange juice/ laptop horror.

That said, Vista installed on a new machine with a fast processor and lots of RAM is probably a very cool OS.

Experience, work requirements, and perception drives your choice of an OS. I had a ton of frustration with work PC's, so I went to the Mac. Hardly perfect, but a helluva lot more reliable. No argument with PC users who think different. It's not personal. and it surely does not amount to "an epic struggle."

"Are we still talking about it? Yep.  =success."  So much so they pulled them.

@sbrown "Except that Apple's "platform" cannot match the breadth of the Windows platform."

Lol, it ok now you can come out into the light and see clearly.  The monsters are all gone.

I like a lot what they're making in this months. AND I like the "heroes"-like atmosphere of the ad with the guy opening a hole in his room (aka Peter Petrelli??). Cool.

In some sense I feel that Microsoft today's look & feel is more actual than competitors (I'm an art director and I'm very sensitive about these things). For that i cited "Heroes".

:-)

lotsa, you don't think Justin Long is smug or designed to be smug in the ads?  Smug is "exhibiting or feeling great or offensive satisfaction with oneself or with one's situation".  You don't think that the Mac character is not feeling great when he proclaims he doesn't get sick?  Doesn't have to confirm/deny everything?  Etc?  I don't know, it seems pretty smug to me based on this definition.

"He's kind to PC, tries to help him out, and never rude."

I hope you are joking.  I'm sure that wasn't the ad agencies desired response.

"Apple has already been there, done that. You'd think with all the money MS Spent at least they could come up with an original idea."

Yes, Apple came up with that idea and also the idea of negative ads and also advertisements in general. OK?

Now go back to sleep and to your dreams about nano-chromatic turtlenecks.

@lindy

"Now Apple could so easily play off these new adds with "and I am Mac" and go on to show all kinds of people using Macs in all walks of life, to include many famous people."

Apple already did a bit of that with the original "Switcher" ads.

@mike:

Thats exactly what I'm talking about. Both Apple and Microsoft are companies trying to profit. That's all there is to it.

The words on both ads are nice, warm and everything, but I don't buy them. In the end they will always disappoint.

I'm tired of the vitriol coming from both sides (3 if you count the linux bunch)... I just don't hink it's worth it. It's a tool, for crying out loud... use whatever serves your needs and be happy :-)

@shark:

As expected, you didn't understand my post... take off your windows-colored glasses... I'm not defending ANYTHING.

BTW, Apple's ads have been that way (negative) since LONG before the I'm a Mac ads (I'm talking 1985 here). Thats another thing I don't understand... why suddenly people started paying attention...

Dipsh

""He's kind to PC, tries to help him out, and never rude."

I hope you are joking.  I'm sure that wasn't the ad agencies desired response.

"

Actually, I'd be pretty certain that is exactly the agency's desired response and their intent. Justin Long's character is meant to have a sense of Noblesse Oblige toward "his lessers" as befits one who is born to a superior class.

Hence simultaneously friendly, helpful, sympathetic, smug and condescending.

Picture a Victorian British aristocrat addressing one of those people from the colonies. Always the model of decorum toward those unfortunates who can never aspire to be an Englishman.

arosania

You're making the same mistake that any cynic does. You're assuming that because your people gave up their ideals, everyone else did as well. And if they haven't you're hell bent on convincing them that they should so it looks like you giving up yours isn't selling out, it's just recognizing a universal truth.

Sorry to break it to you. It's not true or useful.

arsonia, sorry, but you couldn't resist attacking Microsoft even in your so-called harmless post calling for truce. If you're so tired of the vitriol being spewed, stop contributing to it.

@MaryW that is my point.

1.  Apple comes out with "I am Mac and I am PC" adds that have done very well.  Like them or not they have.  They dont talk about the Mac so much but the well known negatives of the Windows world.

2.  MS is now using part of that slogan "I am a PC"  to show off the positive sides of Windows.  By using part of the Apple slogan they are in fact giving those Apple ads some credence.  Bad move IMHO.

3. Apple could easily follow up with using the other part of that slogan, that they originally came up with a small change "and I am Mac" and go into some music filled video showing off Mac's being used in all kinds of places by all kinds of people.  Since the Mac tends to be much more trendy I imagine the add showing off popular people with their Macs, movie stars and other icons.  Doesn't Obama use Mac's?

The question would be which add showing off positive's would come off better.  Hmmm

were is a New Video?

Guys, it seems to me that these ads are targeting Windows people. I don't think they are going to move masses of mac user to switch to Windows pcs.

You completely miss the point, in my opinion. Do you like this ads AS Windows users or not?

Mike:

"It's not true or useful"... I sincerely hope you are right :-)

I have never said I gave up my ideals. I have just pointed out that in the end I just cannot faithfully believe something churned out by an agency.

You have insights at Microsoft and I don't, so maybe you're the wiser on this one.

And, i'm not hell bent to convince anyone... I just think everyone could benefit from some anger management ;-)

Shark:

I stand corrected. Re reading the post I see what you mean. That wasn't really my intention. See why business need publicity experts? :-)

What I wanted to point out was that as soon as I read the manifesto, that previous campaign came to mind, and as Mike pointed out later, that didn't ended up really well...

Lindy

You really think the best response to "Windows users changing the world" is "Mac users who are really popular and trendy"?

Yep. I can see it now. "Hi. I'm Paris Hilton and I think the Mac is hot!" and "More people on the cover of the National Enquirer use Macs" and "Don't let that paperazzi catch you without a diamond studded iPhone"

Yep. That's the key to inspiring people.

Apple: Think Wannabe

Apple used to have commercials demonstrating the OS and apps. Remember Jeff Goldbloom dancing? I suppose you interpret poor Justin as you all see fit, but the PC is a computer, not a user. Do you think that Apple would try to get you to buy a Mac by calling you  a dull loser? So Apple thinks that it can get you to buy a Mac by insulting you. Interpret as you wish, as it's your life.  But Mike's analogy of Justin to a Brit aristocrat seems to make sense.

Arosania

I do know that people who succeed at Microsoft are the ones who want to change the world and that people who only care about how much they can increase the bottom line tend not to survive long.

Nickelgreen

Precisely. Since 95% of the world's computer users are Windows users it really doesn't matter what the 3.5% who use Macs think. If half of them switched it's not like it would change Microsoft that much.

The key is to reinspire people after years of "computers suck and ours suck less" advertising combined with a press that feels like their credibility is made by saying "I'm a serious business reporter, I hate new things" have resulted in demoralized users despite the best computing products in history.

@lindy

"2.  MS is now using part of that slogan "I am a PC"  to show off the positive sides of Windows.  By using part of the Apple slogan they are in fact giving those Apple ads some credence.  Bad move IMHO."

Two weeks ago:

OMG! That's M$ answer to the I'm a Mac ads!!!!!!!!! They are too chicken to respond directly because they know that they are true. What a bunch of desperate losers!

Microsoft Derangement Syndrome: Where doing everything offends Mac users!

And MS isnt giving those ads "credence". They are showing them for how silly and untrue they are.

And now I can already see the talking points start to appear in the form of Mac users saying how bad an idea it is for MS to take on Apple's "message", when they were just mocking MS for NOT doing just that!

Like You guys really are in the business of giving helpful advice to Microsoft.

@ Lindy: Do you need it explained for you why Apple's platform cannot match the breadth of the Windows platform?  I thought it was pretty obvious.  

- Let's see, iPhone may be incredibly popular, but is it as manageable, secure, or business friendly as Windows Mobile with Mobile Device Manager and Exchange?  

- Is OS X flexible enough to run on hardware outside the traditional desktop, laptop, server model (i.e. Tablet PC, Netbook, OLPC, Media Center, Surface, Embedded devices)?  

- And don't tell me Apple TV bests Media Center is functionality.  

- Where is Apple's gaming platform?  

- Does the software/game list for OS X rival that for Windows?  

- Does the install base for OS X rival that of Windows?  

- Try and tell me that MobileMe is as comprehensive or solid as Windows Live services (or Google or Yahoo for that matter).  

- Does Apple offer the comprehensive management and deployment tools for OS X required for widespread enterprise use?  

- But I'm sure Apple offers OEMs flexibility in how they choose to configure and present their machines.  Oh, wait.  

- How's Apple's IPTV platform coming along?

I'm not a hater.  OS X is nice for what it is, and I give Apple due props for the iPhone success.  And I don't claim that MS products are perfect.  But, tell me how Apple's platform matches the breadth of the Windows platform again?  That's why this campaign of Microsoft's will likely work.

Only Paul could seriously end this blog post with

"Humanity vs. smugness. Which side are you going to choose?"

Uh, illegal monopoly? Restraint of trade? Illegal product bundling to leverage one monopoly into another? Chair throwing tirades? "I'll f*cking kill google!" Proprietary formats (office) and technologies (Exchange) to force one generation of bloatware to follow another. Fined billions by the EU for restraint of trade. And, on and on. Finally---and contrary to Paul's repeated claims---Microsoft has not "reformed", some of the abuses are within the past 12 months.

So, "Humanity vs. smugness"? Are YOU KIDDING ME? More like hypocrisy vs. the truth.

Feel free to root for Microsoft. Just don't try to cast it in terms like "humanity vs. smugness" since there is nothing----nothing---the least bit "human" about Microsoft. I'd say it's still a lot more like "Resistance is futile."

Yeah Mike that is exactly what I was thinking Paris Hilton.  That is why I said Obama???

Trendy does not sell me anything, but in the US trendy moves products.

Maybe some people off this list....

applemuseum.bott.org/.../users.html

Hey what you know Jerry is on that list?  Oh that is right he did a Apple commercial and had Mac on his TV show.  Then again I would fake being a Windows user for 10million as well, oh wait....he did not have too, since those adds were about NOTHING:)

@ Lindy again -

A few other items:

- Is Apple scaling OS X to HPC/grid computing?

- Is Apple providing a scalable presentation server? (Note: this is not a claim that Terminal Server beats Citrix)

- Is Apple providing scalable hypervisor?

- Is Apple providing a low cost version of OS X on ultra low cost hardware for 3rd world countries?

Mike:

:-)

Should have been a treat working there in (what I call) the good ol'days... someday I'll ask you about it...

sbrown, I see your point, but you failed to mention the Windows Live stuff. Want to the app on your computer, but access in the cloud. Windows Live, Want to use a cloud app and open it with word? I'm sure you get it. It's becoming all integrated. Google is cloud only and OOO is free, but on your computer only. Live Services  is doing it all and even going mobile. I could go on, but most of you know more.

BTW, Apple ads are not made to make Apple fanboys happy and clap out loud, their targeted to try to get Windows users to switch. All lot of you are blinded by your hatred for Apple. OK Mike, I admit that I agree with you. [And no, we aren't related]

ok,

@apple fun

excuse me my english , im Italian and translate with Babel fish

babelfish.yahoo.com/translate_url

Link 2

babelfish.yahoo.com/translate_url

pls  post your comment now

regard

This is just hilarious:

Microsoft's ad agency makes their ads with Macs. And was featured in an Apple showcase piece.

www.apple.com/.../crispinporterbogusky

I guess that's just smug and inhuman to point out...

Maybe resistance isn't futile after all.

@chuckb84 -

So should Microsoft not work with any business or org that uses Mac or Linux?  Do you think there's a slight possibility that Apple's ad agency uses Windows Servers?  What does it even matter?

Arosania

It was a trip working at Microsoft in "the old days" and it still is. It's different now (with a company that's 20x as large as when I started, it'd have to be) but even in 2008 there's nothing even close and no place that has the same feeling of freedom to really have an impact on the world. (Well, maybe government. Quite a few of us ex-Softies have ended up running for office or working on commissions to keep that sense of working for the public good going)

Chuck b, you make me giggle! Honest to your god(s), folk like you satisfy my need to know that lunatics exist.

@ MikeGalos

"Picture a Victorian British aristocrat addressing one of those people from the colonies. Always the model of decorum toward those unfortunates who can never aspire to be an Englishman."

Oh, but rest assure, dear, unprivileged heathen, that we Brits still have a perspective of your kind that is rather downwardly nasal, my good fellow

:D

(just kidding)

sbrown23

For that matter, people buying things at an Apple Store get their purchases rung up on a handheld terminal that runs Windows Mobile.

I suspect that wasn't in the Apple Showcase, though.

Er, ya....

Did I mention that I like cake?

@ Chuckb84

Perhaps you're living still in 1995 but google IS a monopolist.

Humanity vs smugness is something more subtle than that. I'm really sorry you don't see how much MS has changed in these years. Yes, maybe it's due to court laws, maybe it's due to competitors, but it's CLEAR that many things have changed.

Ah, btw, Apple can't compete with WIndows breadth only because they REFUSE to install OEM version of OSX on other platforms. They prefer to earn the highest from their machines (which you pay 50% more than other machines with Windows installed). That's why Apple computers will ever be a niche market (AND they're unready for business scopes).

@sbrown.  How is Microsoft doing in the All Terrain Tire business?? How about in PineApple farming?

Where they ACTUALLY COMPETE, there is not much a Mac cant do that PC can and vice versa.

@ Lindy -

You change the argument and completely miss the point.  I give up.

@chuckb

What the hell is that link menat to be? All I see is an article about filming in a taxi cab.

And for what's it's worth, it looks like the same kind of evangalising crap that most (all?) companies spew out.

For example, the Prodigy's latest album was supposedly written, in the main, using Reason, as the frontman (Liam Howlett) felt constrained by having to work in the same studio (I'm paraphrasing), with the same old hardware. Working on his laptop, he could write anywhere.

This was fairly well documented, by everyone apart from Korg - who's publicity magazine heralded an interview with Mr Howlett that stated he used, almost excusively, Korg synths, and keyboards for the entire album.

Now this was crap, it was common knowledge crap. But they still put it in.

All companies spew this sort of stuff out.

For example, in the article you've linked to, They don;t explicityly say it, but they 'suggest' that the Mac Minis enabled a whole new method of capture, which is crap, because this has been done on a routine basis by several TV production companies using various hard-disk based solutions.

The fact it was done on a mac is nice, but it doesn;t mean they had an advantage over any other system.

Just because Windows makes an impact on the world doesn't mean its all positive...

After all a gigantic meteor crashed into the world roughly 65 million years ago; most would hardly call that positive, for the mammals that survived yes, for the vast majority of life no.

Parallels here? Sure and either side is going to spin them they way they want.

Interesting to believe thou there are those that view this in black and white, good guy or bad guy argument.

Gorath- entirely possible to turn it around:  Windows users shouting their 95% market share argument, after all the British controlled huge swathes around the globe at one point... hmmmm

Dude

Reading problem?

The 95% discussion was about who the ads targeted. It wasn't saying "Windows 95% thus good; Mac 3.5% thus bad", it was saying "95% use Windows thus they're the audience; 3.5% use Macs thus they're pretty much irrelevant"

Thanks for this update, all I can say is FINALLY! The Apple commercials  went from cute and funny to disingenuous, to total BS. I'm glad MS is meeting them directly with this new phase of the campaign. Odd, to feel like I had to defend MS for the last year and a half because they sat by and allowed a competitor to define them.

If they want to get more personal, maybe have Tony Shalhoub play a Mac who can't deal with normal computer functions such as right clicking perhaps, I don't know just a thought.

And Chuck84 I see the Apple people at Valley Fair in Santa Clara Ca are still using Windows Mobile hand held devices. I guess there's plenty of irony going around.

Gorath,

It's mutual :).

Mike

"or that matter, people buying things at an Apple Store get their purchases rung up on a handheld terminal that runs Windows Mobile.

I suspect that wasn't in the Apple Showcase, though."

I've noticed that(!) and find it equally funny and ironic. I suspect (hope) that they'll be switching to iPhones. The fact that they haven't yet is actually strange and sad.

@sbrown you list stuff where Apple does not compete or even make a products, gaming consoles, IPTV, hypervisor.

I listed stuff where MS does not compete or even make products.  Who missed the point???

Apple does not make stealth bomber wings either by the way.

MIke, you beat me to the iPhone ATT account activation/change  actually used a WinMo device. I was busy cutting most of fingers installing a fluorescent light in my daughters closet. The ols 2ft ballast cost more than a cheap 4 ft with a nice reflector. Unfortunately, I followed directions instead of doing it my way and not there's spots of blood on the ceiling. Dang!

PS, I can't act worth a darn so I guess I'm out of the running for a commercial. But I can sing!

@ Lindy,

Apple couldn't possibly make stealth bomber wings, they'd be bright white, and they'd have to draw your attention! They'd be less than useless :D

@dude,

dude, I hope you're not mistaking me for an MS zealot (I couldn't quite make out your intentions)

Truth is, I don't mind either way. What annoys me is people who adopt their platform religiously.

news.cnet.com/8301-13860_3-10045384-56.html

Some more details on the new ads. Ina finally acknowledges that the shift from the Jerry-Bill spots was always planned.

"Where they ACTUALLY COMPETE, there is not much a Mac cant do that PC can and vice versa."

Mac servers are a joke.  There, I said it.

Of course, Apple has no business solution strategy in the first place, so they aren't competitive with Windows business solutions anyway, and I guess that makes you at least partially correct.

@ Lindy - "sbrown you list stuff where Apple does not compete or even make a products, gaming consoles, IPTV, hypervisor."

Let's take a step back here.  I said "Apple's platform cannot match the breadth of the Windows platform".  You said " now you can come out into the light and see clearly," implying that I was wrong and Apple can in fact match Microsoft.  I list how Microsoft's platform is in fact broader than Apple's, and thus appeals to people and businesses in more situations.  You then proceed to complain that I list areas where Apple doesn't compete.

Um, exactly?

Wasn't that the original point?  That Microsoft offers a broad platform of hardware, software and services that Apple cannot match?  Yes, I believe it was.  Where did you get lost?

Hmm....still 20 hours left before this article gets locked and we're already over 100 comments???

chuckb84

Apple doesn't sell devices to OEMs and they don't sell into the Retail Point of Service (POS) market. They'd have to have all the additional peripherals, registers, scanners, servers and software ecosystem developed.

There's no incentive for anybody but Apple to use iPhone or iPod Touch as a general purpose OEM hand held device since it's so much more expensive than the OEM Windows Mobile devices that currently sell in the retail POS market and nobody in the retail POS market is likely to want to spend extra for an Apple logo on their handhelds.

sbrown23

Apparently you missed the Apple mantra of "If we don't make it, you don't need it"

Therefor HPC clusters and domain systems and hypervisors and OEM products are all the same as stealth bomber wings.

Of course, the Mac Faithful used to say that about smartphones as well until Dear Leader changed his mind.

oops - 18 hours, forgot about the DST error in the board software

"Good stuff. And a sharp contrast to the what the other guy is doing. Humanity vs. smugness. Which side are you going to choose?"

Easy: I'll choose humanity. However, it doesn't have much to do with this tacky, syrupy, dishonest but ultimately lame ad campaign. It will not make me believe that one of the largest companies in the world represents humanity in any way. One never sees this sort of advertising in Europe, which is why US companies generally hire local agencies to design local campaigns.

So, if I continue using Macs, can I, in your opinion, still choose and practice humanity?

"I do know that people who succeed at Microsoft are the ones who want to change the world"

For better or for worse?

Hey Mike how does Microsoft's movie maker server compare to Final Cut server?

Oh Please give me some of that famous Microsoft Mikey logic, you know where you will take this some other place instead of saying "they dont make a movie making server product so how can you compare them?"

It's the ecosystem, stupid!

""I do know that people who succeed at Microsoft are the ones who want to change the world"

For better or for worse?"

Doesn't matter. It's change that you can believe in.

"Yeah Mike that is exactly what I was thinking Paris Hilton.  That is why I said Obama???"

Heh. If Obama appears in a Mac commercial before the elections, he can bid goodbye to the White House.

"Final Cut server?"

"If we don't make it, you don't need it."

Isn't that right pappy?

www.avid.com

Apple is the Sarah Palin of computer companies.

Small.  Sexy.  But ultimately unqualified to lead.

@ Waethorn

Then who's the Obama of computer companies?

Eloquent.  Shallow.  Unqualified to lead.

I kid, I kid...

"Then who's the Obama of computer companies?"

I know who's the John McCain of operating systems.

Unix.

Ancient, confused, and ain't got the balls to lead in this century.

....

I'll let you figure that one out.

"Truth is, I don't mind either way. What annoys me is people who adopt their platform religiously."

And why should that annoy you? Sounds like you have problems.

Fans don't annoy me. What annoys me is people who won't accept choices of the others (bashers). Neither can be called good or bad, but the latter certainly suffer from mental problems.

I suppose it comes from when in the 90's I got a Mac (by a professional's recommendation) to do design and photography stuff and the first people I told about it who actually said anything called me an idiot and said PC's could do the exact same thing (which they certainly didn't, and arguably still quite can't, although close).

I knew nothing of Macs or PC's at the time and couldn't really care less. Now it's part of my work which is why I need to keep up with certains areas of technology at least a little.

"I suppose it comes from when in the 90's I got a Mac (by a professional's recommendation) to do design and photography stuff and the first people I told about it who actually said anything called me an idiot and said PC's could do the exact same thing (which they certainly didn't, and arguably still quite can't, although close)."

And you wonder why they call you an idiot....

Ya, THAT'S why Photoshop CS4 is coming out with exclusive 64-bit support on Windows....

Mum

Serious question, what do you think Windows based PCs can't do in design and photography that Macs can?

In the 90s that may have been true (and it was less so than people thought) but I really don't know of anyplace where Mac still has the edge in these areas. After all, Adobe has been building their stuff for Windows first and then porting to the Mac since the late 90s and the plug-in ecosystem pretty much universally supports both platforms and even the small, niche players in workflow and processing tend to be on Windows first.

Haven't you guys digressed enough?

We need a moderator to bring us back on topic. Maybe Ocean would like to volunteer?

Since we're off topic, Ocean, that was a good review of Zune by Pogue. It was surprisingly objective. Gizmodo had a review up today and they too liked the new Zune.

"Windows vs Walls"

What about Doors? Don't Doors beat Windows? Jim Morrison (RIP) would agree.

Waethorn

That isn't quite fair. Mum said "still quite can't" implying now.

Photoshop CS4 doesn't come out until Tuesday.

If the annnounced plans still hold, next week, the Vista 64-bit people will be able to go to at least 128GB of RAM while the Mac users will apparently still be limited to 4GB due to Apple deciding to keep Adobe in the dark about killing Carbon-64 until it was too late and required a full rewrite of the Mac version.

Still, eventually Adobe will finish the Cocoa-64 based Photoshop CS4 and the Mac will catch up.

Jim Morrison did an operating system? Trippy!

Are Macs used in designing Boeings or Airbuses?

Are Macs used in apps for managing big stocks or goods or furniture orders?

Are Macs used in math apps trying to figure out polymers/virus/microbes behaviour?

Are Macs used in drawing math models and calculous for exploring space and cataloguing astral objects?

Are Macs used as workstation for designing mechanical parts of automotive or transportation in general (trains, ships, truks)?

Are there billions of mac apps developed by little sized software houses in order to let enterprise and small business entities to do as cited over here?

If you answer "yes" to any of these questions, I must tell you, for your sake, that Santa Claus actually doesn not bring gifts to children during Xmas. I know, I know, it's sad. But this is reality.

I don't see any "Darth Sidious" controlling pc market with lies, hypnotizing people un doing things against their will. Just carve this IN your brain: Windows is so largely adopted because IT WORKS: it's versatile and, yes, its weaknesses played also a big part in al the software and hardware world as we know it.

If you think otherwise, I suggest to have a short cold shower and open your eyes, and maybe taking a trip in all the productive realities in the world (or in your country will suffice) and take a look at how it really works.

All other considerations are fictional/illusional/deceptive.

My advice (forgive me for being so long) is to have a look at "what the bleep do we know?". A funny and mind-opening movie about quantum physics.

Have fun. :-)

@ Mikegalos

I like your question. Actually I would never have been able to become an art director and a designer in graphics (both on paper and web) if Microsoft didn't came with Windows on PCs. Macs were so expensive and my family couldn't pay all that money for that. I also started my deep knowledge of computers with a Dos first then a Windows PC (it was Win 3.1 at that time).

When Win95 came out, my brother and I decided to buy a low-cost pc which had a lot of oem software on it. It shipped with Word 6, Excel, Corel Draw 4 (all the suite including Photo Paint) and so I started to be interested in the world of pc graphics. I simply loved it. And, during all these years, I developed my skill using all the apps that common graphics use on Mac. They worked the same, exactly the same, I was able to exchange files without doing anything (and I had a free tool to convert truetype fonts onto mac suitcase font). I spent so many years being ridiculized by other graphics and labele as a "loser" for using a "crap" pc with Windows on. The fact is that I'm working fine and better than common graphics. And this is not because I'm a geek or a genius. It's only because working with not-so-perfect hardware maybe tought me being more creative in finding solutions on a wide range of cases. I improved my skills this way. "This driver is not working properly? Ok let's see why and let's find a solution. Solution found. End of the problem. Back to my workflow." This is everyday reality and this is where my passion for IT came out. I made it myself. And, guess what? I really like a lot Windows. Never got serious problems since Win98. Never had a problem at work. I'm a common human being. I'm happy like this.

:-)

"Jim Morrison did an operating system? Trippy!"

No, but Walls isn't an OS either. So, I think it's fair to make it a three way fight between Walls, Windows, and Doors.

Nickelgreen

To be fair, there are some Macs in some of those markets although it's a tiny number even by Mac standards and generally done with no support from the mothership.

shark47

Bummer, I'd have definitely tried Jim Morrison's Doors in a Virtual Machine...

I didn't realize that it was "The Doors" and not "Doors" so I guess they're disqualified. Mike, you can still try The Doors in a virtual machine as long as you install Windows and the Zune software. :-)

Aaaaaaaah the Zune. When the heck comes to Italy?

I'm tired of being the last wagon! lol

I learned the same way Nickle. Macs are uncommonly found in most areas. However, most medical device vendors abandoned the Mac years ago, around the G3 era. Many started adopting Linux,as it was free and the industry was trying to go to open platforms. The Windows got even better with so many developments that it is just too much to write. The FDA made stringent rules for approval of medically relate wares and Security rulesjust about made Linux go away. I still see some vendors try to sell Linux workstation, which actually have better custom apps than our Windows versions. PACS compatibility and DICOM standards were issues as there was always some proprietary reason for the lack of compatibility.  MY old fellowship went completely Mac in the early 90's, but that was replaced with PACS long ago. Recently, I've seen some Mac fanatic docs write papers on a Mac only PACS system, but if you read how it's done, it's all Windows first, then converted, so what's the point.  It's been a long time since I taught physical chemistry lab at my university, but I understand that they use Macs now. Physics hasn't changed much since then. As you know, 'you can't change the laws of physics.' But dammit Jim, I'm a doctor not a computer repairman....until after 8 PM when my partners call.

@ mum, what annoys me? It's the crazy folks who (as you've experienced yourself) will argue with you over their platform or the other.

Curiously, we seem to have had the same experience, but you can't see it from my view?

As for the Windows Vs Walls, Vs Doors thing, how's about we throw in Ceiling as well? or Floors?

Windows Vs Walls Vs Doors Vs Floors should make a big fight!

As for Nickelgreen and Mike, i was actually surprised at how many macs there were being used in research. Don;t get me wrong, it's a very small amount, but from talking with various professors, it seems a much higher amount than I originally thought.

There is also a lot (ok, relatively speaking, some, but see my previous sentence!) of PCs running Darwin being used in research as well - make of that what you will.

@gorath

I'm aware of that, but outside of usa market, macs have not too much appeal in those sectors. USA is a different market for obvious reasons.

However, I think that reporting a story like mine, is the real point the ad campaign Windows not Walls is all about. Isn't it?

Yep Nick,that's what it should be about.

mikegalos@msn.com  said:

Dude

Reading problem?

The 95% discussion was about who the ads targeted. It wasn't saying "Windows 95% thus good; Mac 3.5% thus bad", it was saying "95% use Windows thus they're the audience; 3.5% use Macs thus they're pretty much irrelevant"

**************

Maybe you might want to look in the mirror I wasn't addressing you.

Follow up; You might want to unwind a bit; it was more a general wondering. After reading this blog the last few weeks it has become quite clear that its not just Mac users who are think skinned.

Thin-skinned Mac users? Indeed.

We now return to our regularly scheduled program.

Waethorn, I use both PC's and Macs for what I do.

"Serious question, what do you think Windows based PCs can't do in design and photography that Macs can?"

Complete color management across all applications is still shaky even in Vista. At the moment nobody seems to know whether a profiled monitor keeps its settings or loses them from time to time randomly like it did in the early days of Vista, but SP1 apparently didn't fix the problem. That's why the wording is "not quite" - because it just doesn't do it as reliably. That doesn't stop me from using PC's for imaging, of course.

"Curiously, we seem to have had the same experience, but you can't see it from my view?"

I'm extremely allergic to bashing, especially bashing without knowledge & experience. And that's almost the only kind.

I have nothing against someone being a fanatic, unless they're shoving their religion down my throat, or worse, bashing mine when they find out what it is.

That's why I used the harsh wording. Sorry.

@nicklegreen Windows dominates for sure, but Macs are used in places other than homes.

http://www.apple.com/science/

@DRWAM

http://www.apple.com/science/medicine/medicalimaging/

Damn (where is the edit button!) "thin skinned"

Anyways roll on the ads , I look forward to seeing what the approach will be in these, to me it looks like this is "Plan B" but we will see.

OK. Done. Just saw the ad.

"OK. Done. Just saw the ad. "

Watched. :-)

Long Zheng had something similar to the ad a year ago:

www.istartedsomething.com/.../mac-vs-

pcs-creative-commons/

Wow....just wow! I cannot believe the amount of BS being spewed by fans of both sides here today.

THEY ARE COMPUTERS, PEOPLE...GET OVER IT!!! THIS REMINDS ME OF WHEN A CERTAIN BONCHY YOUNG MAN ONCE TOLD US ABOUT HIS HONEY.

--tayme

Nickelgreen

" Windows is so largely adopted because IT WORKS"

Oh, bullshit. It's adopted because Microsoft licensed  it to run on every POS hardware from every vendor. (and this context POS does not mean point of sale).

90% of the sales of "Windows" are for applications that are basically cash registers running some program under Windows. The user never "sees" Windows per se, but it's a "WIndows" computer.

The sense in which that "works" is that it doesn't crash to often, BSOD at the Olympics not withstanding.

Actually, that use of WIndows is just fine. Lowest common denominator that runs on cheap hardware. Sort of an embedded controller on steroids.

Over the years, I've always found that the happiest WIndows users are the ones who spend all day in one or a few apps: Visual Studio, Autocad, Arcview, even Office. Basically, a good Windows app keeps you isolated from Windows. The unhappy users are the ones who actually use it as an OS.

And, just one more thing, then I swear I'm done with this:

Look here for what Paul really says:

www.winsupersite.com/.../ms_swiftboat.asp

And, note well the concluding remarks:

"As for the Switcher ads, Microsoft has been notably silent, allowing Apple to control the discussion and let perception become reality. And honestly, why would Microsoft even license Exchange to Apple? Are they crazy? Between this and all the other ActiveSync licensing, they've effectively ceded the smart phone market to their competitors. What's next? A license to run Windows applications on the Mac?

It's time for Microsoft to respond to the challenges it faces with leadership and authority. And if you care about the systems you support now, your jobs, and your very livelihood, you might do demand the same from the company. All of us have backed the same horse. And from what I can tell, that horse looks like it's' ready for the proverbial pasture."

This is not about truth, justice and the American way of life. It is not about the good guys vs. the bad guys (as if that even makes sense). It is purely and simply about what PAUL MAKES MONEY FROM. As he would say himself: Obvious.

SO, think what you want. I admire the passion, although the motivation for defending a wretched company like Microsoft totally escapes me. Just don't think that Paul has any stake in this other than how he earns a living.

Any pretense of objectivity, now or at any time was thrown away with that line

"And if you care about the systems you support now, your jobs, and your very livelihood, you might do demand the same from the company. All of us have backed the same horse."

Apple is only the bad guy in the sense that it threatens Paul's livelihood and that of thousands (at least) of other "IT professionals" who aren't objective.

The difference is that most of them make no pretense of objectivity, while Paul does.

I'm a PC

And the first 3 commercials are now online at: www.microsoft.com/.../videoGallery.aspx

"Humanity vs. smugness. Which side are you going to choose?"

I'll choose the side that's making a better product that works better.

Thanks for the link, Mike...The ads are pretty good...But, I have to say it again...they are just computers...

I'm a Mainframe - And I just keep on running and running and running and running and running and running and running and running and running and running and running and running and running and running and running and running and running and running and running and running and running and running and running and running and running and running and running and running and running and running.

--tayme

and running

--tayme

still running...

--tayme

I think they should have let the Seinfeld ads play out. However, I do like the new ads. They're a nice right cross and kick to the balls of the I'm a Mac ads. This really shuts up and makes people take notice that Windows has powered the Internet Revolution. The Macs were in too insigificant numbers during the Internet revolution and still are compared to the over 1 billion users and counting.

John was right that the ads are dangerous. If Microsoft can show to people that Apple has been insulting more than one billion plus computer users, that would become a PR nightmare. If they could turn the Apple ads on their heads, it would kill it. Other than the fact that Vista now has sold 200,000,000 copies of Vista and outsold Leopard 30 to 1. How much of an butt kicking do you need? If this was a boxing match, Windows would be Mohammed Ali, and Apple would be Sonny Liston down on the floor.

With all this press, Microsoft is still on top. If they can't beat Microsoft in this anti-Vista environment, then perhaps Apple really needs to start thinking. "Can we ever beat Microsoft?" I think the answer by now is obvious.

I'm a (very happy) PC and I think chuck needs some sleep.

I'm a Mainframe, 50+ Years...and still running!!!

--tayme

Well not bad at all.  No great either.  Way more on message than the first two.  Overall underwhelming.

I am not a PC:)

"I am not a PC:)"

Thank God.

"If Microsoft can show to people that Apple has been insulting more than one billion plus computer users, that would become a PR nightmare."

Did you really just say that?  You were joking right??  In reality I going to say than 980 million Windows users dont give a rats @$$ either way.  Their PC chugs along, their microwave oven heats food and the DVD player plays movies.

PUT DOWN the cool aid.

"But, I have to say it again...they are just computers..."

Not just any computer - a PC. :-)

I like the ads. The message comes across LOUD and CLEAR. I think Long Zheng should be proud of himself. He influenced an entire ad campaign. Cool!

I missed the ad (not a fan of the American version of The Office). Is the ad on YouTube yet? Can't wait to see it...

Oh, and one more thing...

I see why Paul like France so much.

Oh! Thanks for the link Mike!

Well, thanks for Mike, for the link, I saw all three "I'm a PC" commercial.

Not bad, but not great. It was good/okay. I do like it a lot that there's no "I'm a Mac, so I'm better than you." 'tude. That's something that turns me off from the Mac ads (and Mac users) (and Steve Jobs).

I'm a PC.

Saw the ad, it was amazing. About time Windows fought back, not that I didn't really enjoy the sitcom.

I'm a big fan of the Sienfield ads... this was not what I expected. I would vote these a 2 out of 5 in terms of themselves and a 1 out of 5 for taking on Apple.

I got no other impression except constantly wondering why Mr. Mainframe was a 'pc' when he's probably running all sun/unix hardware.

The astronaut was cool. Overall, 2/5. Lame, but not terrible.

Gruber is not having it.  I must admit, he makes a lot of sense:

>>dropping these ads is a panicked reaction. Let’s not pretend it makes any sense that the Seinfeld spots were planned as a two-episode teaser all along.

--

The most telling fact is that the firm that reached out to the media yesterday to explain that this sudden shift was supposedly the plan all along was not Crispin Porter, the advertising agency producing the campaign, but Waggener Edstrom, Microsoft’s PR firm.<<

Gotta agree.  Something is fishy there.

I bet (and you remember this) that we'll find out later that they put some other Seinfield commercials back on the shelf.  The changeover to 'phase II' was way too awkward.

I'm a PC, but I'm not drinking MS's koolaid.

daringfireball.net/.../theres_nothing_there

Bingo.  I was right.  What a disjointed campaign:

>>In fact, CPB has another completed spot featuring the lovable, affluent couple in the can, ready to air (even though it won't quite yet). <<

And so much for 'this was planned' nonsense:

>>It's true, Microsoft apparently asked the agency to focus on the new "I'm a PC" spots.<<

What a mess.

gizmodo.com/.../microsoft-ads-featuring-bill-gates-and-jerry-seinfeld-not-canceled

I'm not sure it's been linked to yet, but here's one YouTube upload of one of the advertisements...

www.youtube.com/watch

Honestly, I'm loving this. Clear, concise, brings a smile to my face. I'm a PC, and I'm proud!

Oh shoot, and another one...

www.youtube.com/watch

"John was right that the ads are dangerous. If Microsoft can show to people that Apple has been insulting more than one billion plus computer users, that would become a PR nightmare."

It's only the geeky windows zealots that feel insulted.  Most people blame MS, not themselves  

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Isn't it funny that the only people insisting what PC owners feel are the Mac users?

Perhaps arrogance comes with the platform.

Loiosh

"Mr. Mainframe" isn't running a mainframe. That's a Windows Server datacenter.

Windows doesn't just power desktops and SUN/Unix doesn't own datacenters any more. (And IBM mainframes don't either)

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post your video or your photo

www.microsoft.com/.../default.aspx

GO!!!!!

<<mikegalos@msn.com said:

Isn't it funny that the only people insisting what PC owners feel are the Mac users?Perhaps arrogance comes with the platform.>>

I completely agree.

I'm a PC too!

Yesterday I did not turn my PC on and it was only today that I heard the news about the follow-up of the Windows/Not Walls campaign.

I don't know if it is because I'm an European and I really don't like negative campaigns (political or otherwise), but I think MS nailed it perfectly!

(I miss the Bill/Seinfeld ads, though...)

Ocean,

Yeah,. Fear led Microsoft to sign up at least three celebrities, film three 1 minute spots and come up with the entire set of print ads within one week. Oh yes, that's believable.

And you use Gruber to prove your point? Why don't you use Apple's own PR next.

"Isn't it funny that the only people insisting what PC owners feel are the Mac users?Perhaps arrogance comes with the platform."

It's not arrogance. It's delusions. They see conspiracies where none exist. They see ulterior motives where there are none. A commentator on Windows IT Pro had once remarked that all the smart ones had switched to Macs. Well, that may or may not be true, but it sure looks like the delusional ones have switched. After reading all of his comments over the last few days, I don't understand why they've left Ocean behind.

Long Zheng does feel proud:

www.istartedsomething.com/.../im-a-pc-deja-vu

:-)

@ Shark47

I think it's the "lover spurned syndrome" isn't it?

:-)

"Isn't it funny that the only people insisting what PC owners feel are the Mac users?Perhaps arrogance comes with the platform."

Not only that, it seems.

Eva Longoria is a PC. lol

I don't think that the ads started out of fear. Someone probably evaluated the marketing dept,and just wanted something new, out marketing felt it was time to justify it's existence, or something. But not fear.

Also, I use Windows at work, and mostly a Mac at home [but the rest of the family uses Windows]. Hanging around here makes me believe that I am the least arrogant and least delusional in the community. If I post anything that I believe is wrong about the company, both sides jump in and counter with reasons that justify their teams behavior, or try to explain that I'm wrong. It's time to look in the mirror or read your posts. But it's definitely not time to stop with humor, anecdotal or not. Describing behavior is not name calling, so I think that's OK, since it's not directed at any one person. Name calling on line is kinda cowardly, which is why I don't do it...OK rarley when I'm real PO'ed, but I haven't done it here......in a while......I think:)

Nickle, dude that sucks that you can't get your product where you live. I wish I could send you one. I friggin hate waiting, especially when everyone else is playing with the same toy. I hope it gets there soon.

OK, obviously, because of Outlook and Windows Live, I'm using Windows at home more and more. I didn't want you guys thinking that I was lying about being a Mac owner since I bee discussing the above a bit.

Doc

@DRWAM

1) Thanks for caring for the lack of zune service in Italy. The fact that irritates me a lil' bit is that I can't even access the marketplace. But I'm patient and I know eventually the service will be on here too.

2) I think that people like you are really cross-platform people who simply takes the best from both worlds without any ideology. I myself would keep a partition with OSX on my pc, but, as you know, in 2008 it's still impossible. It's possible the reverse but there's a slight difference as you can well imagine.

The negative reactions are pouring in:

news.cnet.com/8301-10805_3-10045505-75.html

Well, not really pouring in ... I guess. But my gut feeling is that the reaction will be largely negative.

Anyway, Doc, I don't have a problem with Mac users who mind their own business and don't insult me by constantly telling me I'm on an inferior platform. The marketshare statistic comes up because of this. I have a couple of friends who own and love their Macs. But they don't feel the need to constantly harp about OS Xs superiority. They like their Macs. I like my PC. That's about it. On the other hand, some commentators here have this delusion of superiority. They believe that they're smarter than the others because they switched to a superior platform and they make it a point to let everyone here know about the way they feel.  Apple's ads, the drooling press, and Jobs' keynotes only serve to amplify that feeling. That's what p*sses me off.

Ocean, on the other hand, is just a wannabe, wanting to hang out with the "cool kids".

I here Nickle. For work, Exchange is wonderful, but it is also great for PIM. MS did a nice job with Entourage and offered rebates making it under $50. Now with windows Live, and even the iPhone, I find Windows just getting more useful for my personal needs.

I own a 2 yr old Mac Pro Tower, which will last a very long time. Although it runs Vista very well, I wish to replace my home built PC soon. Since I already have a Mac that will run for a few  more years, I doesn't make sense to buy another Mac since I can build a nice Vista beast for much less. I just like fancy cases. I do find it strange when people [writers] marvel at the case appearance of the Mac Pro since I come from an old Italian family, and it reminds me of the cheese grater that we used when I was a kid. Go figure!

I found these two comments on the ads and I liked these comments:

I kinda like this ad. It lets people know that PC users are pretty much everyone, everywhere, and capable of doing everything. It's completely not arrogant. The Mac ads make PC users look like they're creatively inept and disabled. However, where do they go from there?

"Hi, I'm a PC. I feed starving children, bring rare animals from the brink of extinction, and I approve presidential campaign messages." I think they should stop here with this type of ad and move on to something else because it can't possibly get any better without delivering low blows like Mac ads do.

Second comment:

It works even better when you realize that every one of those people is exactly who they say they are. They are themselves instead of actors playing machines. Best bit is Deepok's.

Bit of an aside, the man who said he studies genes is Dr. Pedro Lowenstein of UCLA and Cedars-Sinai Medical Center. He may not mean much to most, but to those in his circle, it can mean quite a lot. Now think about all the other "unknowns" in there and wonder just who they were and who is in their sphere of recognition.

As for me, I like the style of marketing that promotes the product in a positive way on it's own merits. Not by slamming the competition and/or by slamming your competition's customers.

A friend of mine, switched to macs 3 years ago. He owns a lil macbook which has become very slow with Leopard installed. So he's been thinking to upgrade to a new macbook or a iMac (he likes to chat in the evening from his bed and I can't tell him he's wrong - lol). He's still lured by the low proces of PC notebooks and he's been thinking of switching to Windows pc.

I adviced him to think really a lot about that and I just said him: "Look, you've got so used to mac interface and apps and it would be a pity to get back to Windows even if you like my Vista pc in my home. So maybe you can spare some money and then buy a iMac 24" which I think it's a cool machine for OSX. But clearly a pc notebook will make you save lots of money. It's up to you to decide".

This is how I behave with the few friend using mac I know. I'm not an ideologist. If they ask me, yes, I can tell them why a modern PC with Vista maybe far more productive, but I don't like to annoy them with propaganda. If they switch to Windows I'm happy for them, but if they're happy with their macs, I'm happy for them too.

:-)

From the beginning MS had said that there would be other celebrities involved with the campaign, so having ads now with those celebrities shouldn't surprise anyone.

So, is anyone over on Gruber's site complaining why he is talking about MS so much? ;)

typo: low proces=low cost

Shark, there's "cool kids here"? Looks around :)

Nickle, not even I would pay for the high price of a Mac laptop. For what most people need, any much less expensive Windows laptop will be fine.

Delmont, many devices that are used for care of the human race in the US must be FDA approved. I was told by a vendor [that tried to sell me a $400,000 dual head gamma camera with a Mac G3 in 2001, at least 2 yrs after they stopped making G3's]. that it was tough dealing with the Mac OS because the frequent changes needed reapproval by the FDA. Almost all medical equipment run on XP, some are still using SP1 in fact. That's why Ifind it strange when someone tries to use a Mac with them. Tey are only displaying images on PACS, but monitor calibration with medical grade monitors is paramount. While it works, I wonder how they got FDA approval. Even the software needs approval such as the type of lossless compression used. With older technology, I have seen intracranial hemorrages missed due to bad monitor calibration and poor compression useage. Of course that was long ago, but still NEC medical calibration tool for PC is truly necessary. I would love to use a Mac without bootcamp, but the available apps just aren't necessary since it's all done on XP anyway. Now the processors are the same, so it seems that only a few Mac centric locations exist. While a resurgence is quite possible, the main tools will still be PC's to run the show, while some users will get supported access with a Mac because of good IT staff.

@ shark47

The negative reactions are pouring in:

Only from the usual suspects. No one should be surprised when some "unbiased" tech commentator, or some stupid kid on a messageboard, starts running off at the mouth desperately trying to find something wrong with this ad.

The great thing about these ads are that they are exposing the deranged nature of Apple's most nutcase fanatics. In fact many Mac users have given very positive complements about this, which has only further highlighted the loony nature of these people.

"Isn't it funny that the only people insisting what PC owners feel are the Mac users?

Perhaps arrogance comes with the platform."

Arrogance?  How about stupidity on your part?  Honestly anyone that feels anything for an OS needs help.  Or at least needs to get up from their computer and go outside once a week.

I dont feel anything for OS X or Windows.  I just prefer one to the other.  They are both tools to get something done.  If I won the lottery tomorrow, enough to never have to work again and live in luxury if chose too, my time in front of any computer would drop 90%.  There is way more to life than an OS.  Or in your case Mike living on this insignificant site.

You should update your resume.  Add the following line....

"I pug the @$$ in Jack @$$"

I really got to watch more TV, the ad's are interesting, and intelligently done.  I've watched enough TV to see the Apple ad's, Microsoft ad are well thought out come back.   Now as far as their slogan, "Life with out walls."  That would actually be interesting if it were true.   Vista, has many Walls, and Microsoft has as of yet still has not addressed them. I won't try to turn this into a Vista bashing debate, or a MS bashing debate.  It's about the ad's and there well done.  Now for Microsoft thumb's up on your advertisement campaign.  Now can you actually, Walk the Talk?  

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