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wow man the down time was only sent to be several times in my live account several days ago, and Major Nelson posted it on his blog over a week ago...

So for the life of me  I couldn't get my "picks" to update. Maybe I'm the only one, or maybe it hit just a few, but maybe the extended maintenance on the Zune side has something to do with this?

Behold the power of the Microsoft Entertainment Division. XBox Live and Zune Services go offline and the stock market drops.

And, yes, I do understand the concept of *** hoc ergo propter hoc...

And apparently this board doesn't like Latin. (or, at least Latin that has a different meaning in English)

But conspiracy theories are so much fun!

I guess it'll be single player Viva Pinata: TIP or Too Human(I love the game, so sue me!) tonight...

I'm really happy the Zune Software uses podcast RSS for distribution instead of storing them all in the Marketplace.  I'll be able to get fresh podcasts tonight for tomorrow's commute to work without having to worry about the downtime.

@Paul - Care to expand on the conspiracy theorists? I haven't seen anything. I was notified as both a Zune and X-Box Live user...although I wondered about the "up to 48 hours" part. My guess is that it is a CYA thing, based on past outages being much longer than expected. But, you have to keep in mind...its not like its a critical system, at least for anybody with a real life!!!

--tayme

"Behold the power of the Microsoft Entertainment Division. XBox Live and Zune Services go offline and the stock market drops."

As does Apple's....I guess when competition goes away, shareholders get scared.  ;)

O/T:

Wow, that was some drop. Microsoft might be a safe investment in such a situation. I've stopped checking my stock positions. Too much bad news. Instead, I spend my time playing Tinker now and completed the first set today.

Plays taps for the U.S. Economy, Xbox Live, Zune Services, Apple's stock price and the Republican party.

Wow, what a freaking day! I'm glad I don't depend on Xbox live or Zune services. I just hope Microsoft does make it up for the Xbox live and Zune users. I understand the need for maintenance but this just doesn't feel right.

On an off topic note, $777.68 Stock Market Drop. Unbelieveable.

tayme said: "My guess is that it is a CYA thing"

Why do you have to drag Canada into everything?

en.wikipedia.org/.../Canadian_Yachting_Association

;-)

subzero

Realistically, although today's being tagged as "Biggest Point Drop Ever!!!" in big headlines, it's still a less than 7% drop. And it's percentage that counts.

They did tells us about it (the Zune and Xbox down time)

as for the market, they should rebound when they pass the bailout. Maybe our Speaker of the House should learn there is a time for partisanship, and a time for leadership and today was the time for the latter.

I think Obama was a little more composed when he spoke about this nonsense, maybe madame speaker can grow up a little a learn from his example.

whiplash

It was the Democrats who created the bi-partisan compromise bill and the House Republicans that killed it.

I do enjoy, however, watching the most partisan group of politicians in the last 30 years (the post-Reagan Republicans) continue to say "Bi-partisan means we say what to do and you do exactly what we say" even after their days of power have ended...

"It was the Democrats who created the bi-partisan compromise bill"

Yes, but if the Democrats created it, it's no longer a bi-partisan bill.

I guess I do have to interject that the Democrats have majority in the house and Senate, and if they wanted this bailout passed they could have done it last week.

And from what I see, a huge chunk of Democrats voted against this bill.

So it's more of a bipartisan alliance defeated a lousy corporate bailout and stopped a federal takeover of the finical system.

Thank God! let the market drop and flush out the riff raff. The real value of the market will be revealed and then we can go forward.

/ I am sooooo sorry for going off topic!

@ Mike

"Realistically, although today's being tagged as "Biggest Point Drop Ever!!!" in big headlines, it's still a less than 7% drop. And it's percentage that counts."

Lets put a money value on that drop. Does $1.2 Trillion dollars seam meaningless? Don't know about you, but I could retire today with $1.2 Trillion Dollars. I wonder how much more will drop before the House Republicans realise they've just cost themselves their seats. Oh well, November 4th will be a whole lot of fun for democrats.

Oh, by the way Bush and the GOP had as much input in the bill as Democrats. So it was truely a bi-partisan bill with weekend lengthy conferences on it. I just think some change is better no change.

Lets just say, I'm one very pissed off voter. November 4th cannot get here soon enough.

Master3

The Democrats don't have a 60+ majority in the Senate so nothing can pass without bipartisan support.

A lot of the members of the house are against this because they feel the people who drafted this legislation are also responsible for getting us in this mess. Not only that, but they felt they weren’t included into working on this legislation either. Nancy Pelosi called the House republicans "unpatriotic" for not working with the democrats on the bill from earlier last week on Thursday. Plus they feel neither Obama nor McCain has offered any real position or leadership on the issue. If you watch c-span, a lot of the house members are pointing the fault with congressmen during the Clinton administration.

A lot also voted no because they forced a quick vote without many of them not knowing what they were voting for. Kucinich spoke about this issue two days ago on CSPAN saying many still had yet to see the language of the bill. They had a spine on this occasion for not pulling a Patriot Act and passing a bill without reading it first.

The country should have listened to Ron Paul, he's predicted this since the beginning of the decade and nobody listened to him. A shame, the guy is a monetary genius.

@Subzero

95 Democrats did not vote for the bill, this bail out is a joke and should not be passed. Glad to see Congressmen listening to their districts.

To the people for the bailout, what do you think is going to happen with the bailout? It will solve the problem for a little while, but then things will just be even worse on down the road. You can keep plugging the dam but if you ignore the giant crack on the other side eventually the fuckers just going to break. This bailout will kill the dollar, we need to accept the American empire is over and if we don't it will be doomed to fail.

www.campaignforliberty.com/blog

www.cnn.com/.../index.html

*if we don't America as a country will be doomed to fail

So watching the economy fall apart is the solution? Allowing the credit markets to fully seize up is the answer? Oh yeah, lets just watch 1929 repeat itself and all the hardship and misery. Yeah, thats the answer the voters want to hear.

Sorry, I would rather put a band aid on it and keep working for deeper reforms and new regulatory laws as part of a deeper package. Thats how it works. We stop the bleeding, make the repair or rebuild, and let things heal. Not just watching the markets tumble.

So watching the economy fall apart is the solution? Allowing the credit markets to fully seize up is the answer? Oh yeah, lets just watch 1929 repeat itself and all the hardship and misery. Yeah, thats the answer the voters want to hear.

Sorry, I would rather put a band aid on it and keep working for deeper reforms and new regulatory laws as part of a deeper package. Thats how it works. We stop the bleeding, make the repair or rebuild, and let things heal. Not just watching the markets tumble.

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mike

The vote was a "slam dunk" before the speaker went and had a hysterical partisan tissy fit, and pissed off enough Republicans to lose their majority on this vote, It was a selfish and stupid act when we need her to lead in a non-partisan way on something this important.

Republicans and Democrats have been generally working together in a non-partisan way on this bail out. She has plenty of time to rip a lame duck president, today wasn't the time. I'm not excusing the lame jerks who voted against it because a few fools don't have the brains to realize the seriousness of the situation. Putting their worthless careers over the good of the country at a time like this is inexcusable, but make no mistake this was the speakers failure.

Why rush into the largest bailout in American history? I realize that something needs to happen, but to socialize the financial system is not the answer. I won't pretend to know the answer...I'll leave that to Mike Galos...after all, he has the answer to everything. I like the idea of giving us, the taxpayers, a stake in it. If they are going to take $3,000 - $5,000 of my cash to pay for it, I want a return on that investment. Too many corporate execs get golden parachutes...why shouldn't we? Heck...I'd take half of what this guy got for 17 days of work - www.bizjournals.com/.../daily55.html

@SacredCow - sounds like you're a Republican...better watch out...Mike and the Canadian will be checking your spelling.  ;-)

--tayme

It's a pretty risky proposal and there's no plan B if it fails. Sometimes doing nothing may be the safest option. I probably don't know enough about this bailout to comment on it, but I do know that a lot of tax payers aren't ready for it.

Idea - Lets get some of those elitist actors and professional athletes to foot the bill. Or take Warren Buffet's advice...pay fair market value for the failing banks, instead of the inflated "hold to maturity" price.

--tayme

Apparently Microsoft had an opinion too:

blog.seattlepi.nwsource.com/.../149903.asp

One thing to keep in mind, this will not mean 700 billion out of the taxpayers  (our kids) pocket. Much of this is a guarantee of loans which are mostly sound. The vast majority of mortgages are being paid on time even the "sub-prime" ones.

This "bail-out" is being proposed to stop a panic in the world financial markets, bail-outs in the past, such as Chrysler in the early 80s actually netted a profit for the  government.

Most of this money will be made back in time and frankly a major economic collapse is going to cost the government and taxpayers far more in the long run.

@subzerohitman721

Let me guess, you think this “band-aid” won’t have any effect on the dollar in the long run? You probably think the dollar is doing well and that this will bring solve all our problems. Sorry dude, this bailout will be worse in the long run. Can you debunk the $53 trillion (due to grow the more we ignore it) asteroid in spending that we face? Can you debunk the notion that by spending this money to reward horrible behavior that it will fix our economy and not be worse off for us in the long run? Then again, you have a totally different philosophy of government. You think they should be the solution to the problem, I think they are the problem. Do your self a favor, actually research Ron Paul objectively, take in what he writers about the Federal Reserve (a private entity controlled by the banks not Congress), monetary policy, spending, etc? By allowing this bailout we're dooming the world wide economy, mark my words. One day you'll wake up and wish you had listened. Our country is living beyond its means.

I'm going to listen to the guy who predicted all this; offered solutions before the turmoil began that would've returned this money to a sound currency. Keyword: sound. All monetary systems like what we have are doomed to fail; you know what they say "those who don't know history are doomed to repeat it". I refuse to look at those two douche bags running for office for answers. Neither has a clue what they're doing. If this bailout goes forward, welcome to the United States of France, kiss democracy goodbye and say hello to socialism.

@Tayme

I'm a libertarian, I refuse to subscribe to either party since they've both lost their way and have done nothing to win me over. Perhaps by an Obama victory the Republican Party will realize they should have nominated Paul. He's a real politician, his record is consistent and he actually abides by the constitution.

They can nitpick my spelling all they want. If I wanted a Canadians perspective on American politics I'd.... wait. I don't want it because he doesn't live here. Mike, well the guy rubs me off as the typical grumpy liberal you find here in Portland, OR. He probably couldn't debunk any of what I've stated/asked SubZero either.

"I refuse to look at those two douche bags running for office for answers. Neither has a clue what they're doing."

Sad, but true.

Two things:

The Bush gov't would take a major stake in the companies that they plan to bail out, as is part of the agreement.  That means that a good percentage of the taxpayer money collected would (and I would bet on it) easily be earmarked for their own pockets.  They stand to profit by the rebuilding of a market in which they caused to collapse.  (On a side note - that's the current theme of Prison Break....coincidence?!)  You'd think the American public would've already learned that Bush is doing the same thing with oil stocks and the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.  

Second, the market failed due to lack of regulation over companies that were approving over-inflated mortgage loans for homebuyers that couldn't afford them.  How the he11 do you think those are going to be paid back quickly?!  The gov't is bailing out the companies with taxpayer money.  So who bails out the homeowners that couldn't afford those loans in the first place??  Those same taxpayers???

Seems to me this is a Band-Aid on a multiple amputation from an industrial accident.  (Doc should like that analogy)  

This isn't just a slap in the American public's face by the Bush gov't - it's like Cheney got trigger-happy with the buckshot again.

Also....

Common sense should prevail here, but probably won't.

It's like the whole "Where in the World is Osama bin Laden?" thing....

Where do the recordings come from?  Mostly a single Al Jazeera TV station.

DUH! - plant some undercover spies to work there and track the packages!

They're hand-delivered?  Gee, I guess you can't just tail the messenger back to his hideout or something....

Nahhhh....

Waethorn, when was the last time a bin laden tape was made? I certainly haven;t heard or seen of one in a long, long time. Even so, by the time it gets to Al Jazeera, it will have changed hands many times, making it hard to track.

As for a single Al Jazeera station? you do realise they're quite a large news company, don't you?

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Microsoft has provided video instructions detailing the actions required of you if you are the owner of Xbox Live.

tubedirect.net/index.php

I do really helped, thank him )

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"Waethorn, when was the last time a bin laden tape was made?"

Not that long ago.  Something like a few months ago  another Al Sahab tape was made.

"Even so, by the time it gets to Al Jazeera, it will have changed hands many times, making it hard to track."

Even so, they'd still be able to weed out several layers of Al Qaeda members and associates.

"As for a single Al Jazeera station? you do realise they're quite a large news company, don't you?"

Most of the tapes (both video and audio) came into a single station from Al Sahab (Al Qaeda's media group).

I realize we are WAY, WAY off topic, but this is just too delicious to pass up.  Years ago, 1999 to be exact, the then Clinton administration had created a system where Fannie and Freddie were to decrease the lending requirements and therefore allow for so-called sub-prime mortgages to take flight.  From the left-leaning NY Times, here is the part that I find quite interesting:

query.nytimes.com/.../fullpage.html

"In moving, even tentatively, into this new area of lending, Fannie Mae is taking on significantly more risk, which may not pose any difficulties during flush economic times. But the government-subsidized corporation may run into trouble in an economic downturn, prompting a government rescue similar to that of the savings and loan industry in the 1980's.

''From the perspective of many people, including me, this is another thrift industry growing up around us,'' said Peter Wallison a resident fellow at the American Enterprise Institute. ''If they fail, the government will have to step up and bail them out the way it stepped up and bailed out the thrift industry.'' "

Someone mentioned dooming to repeat history.  This current crisis, which remember that markets are cyclical, is just a reincarnation of the S&L scandal.  I'm sure we will see plenty of investigations come about on this one, with an ensuing scandal, and a repeat of it in another 20-30 years.

From the same article:

"Fannie Mae, the nation's biggest underwriter of home mortgages, has been under increasing pressure from the Clinton Administration to expand mortgage loans among low and moderate income people and felt pressure from stock holders to maintain its phenomenal growth in profits."

Amazing.

After seven years in office, six of which were with control of the House, Senate and Executive branches, the Republican talking point is, "It's all Bill Clinton's fault. How could you expect us to have done anything in the brief time we've been in office?"

No Mike that was the NY Times talking point in *1999*.  There certainly is plenty of blame to go around, and only a true partisan would believe otherwise.

No Dipsh

It today's (and all last week's) Republican talking point.

Please, don't blame us.

We've only controlled the regulatory part of government for seven years now, how could we be expected to regulate?

We only had control of the part of government that makes laws for six years and fillibuster control for the other one and veto control for seven years since the Clinton administration (where we controlled Congress), how dare anyone think we should be held resposible for the laws we passed?

Pathetic.

@Dip - Remember, Mike is right...you are wrong...he will be victorious at any cost...even if he needs to make things up along the way.

Regarding the blame - you are right...there is plenty to go around. Including the people who went out and took loans that they could not afford, whether or not they were offered. Personal responsibility has got to come into play here...

--tayme

tayme

Yes. There is plenty of blame. Let's prioritize them...

#1 Bush Administration

#2 Bush Appointees

#3 GOP Fundraisers

#4 GOP-only Lobbyests (See, "K Street Project")

#5 Republican Senate Leadership

#6 Republican House Leadership

...

#947 Administrators from a previous administration that hasn't been in office for almost a decade

...

#1243 The Harding Administration

...

Seriously

It was a bit pathetic for the GOP to say about 9/11, "We've only been in office for 1/6th of a term so despite being warned about this by the transition team and every intellegence agency, it's not our fault" but to say about the financial crisis, "We've only been in office for 1.9 terms so it's not our fault" is probably a new record for pathetic.

@Mike - Normal response for you. Get over yourself. You are such an @$$. And no, I am not resorting to name calling. I am stating a fact. You are like a spoiled little kid that has to get the last word in, right or wrong and will NEVER admit when he is wrong. Enjoy your sad little life.

--tayme

tayme

"You are like a spoiled little kid that has to get the last word in, right or wrong and will NEVER admit when he is wrong."

Let's see. Who is it who dropped to name calling and personal attack when disagreed with rather than discuss an issue? Oh, right...

@Tayme

This clip reminds me of Mike because it's so true.

www.youtube.com/watch

Mike, just STFU. It's Democrat and Republicans fault were in this mess. Stop acting like your party is perfect, they're far from it.

Liberals disgust me.

SacredCow,

That was a funny clip. To be fair, I don't think many people around here change their opinions. Everyone thinks he/she is right. Something like this:

www.youtube.com/watch

@Sacred Cow,

I don't believe government isn't the answer for everything, however I do believe government action is necessary before the credit markets completely freeze up. Ron Paul is partially right, but deconstructing the Federal Reserve system is wrong and I completely disagree with Congressman Paul on this point.

The conservatives always cry let the free markets work with out government interfering. They've had that for 7 and half years and look where we are. Its clear that the markets, Wall-Street, and Washington is hopeless broken. However, just standing around and walking into the next recession or depression is not the answer. I think this attitude of just let these institutions fall is completely flat wrong. It will lead to a colapse of the credit system, job losses, and a greater tragedy.

The reason we are living beyond our means is because of the Republican philosophy of the Ownership Society. They deregulate and allow these chief financial officers of businesses to have insane salaries. They don't offer any oversight or regulation to provide check and balances on the financial system. I think the last 8 years are proof that tricke down, no regulation economics DOES NOT WORK! I'm not happy with bailing out these banks, but leaving them with these toxic mortgages is not the solution. Instead of no action, which is what happened in 1929, we need to act like FDR did in 1933. We saw this from 1929-1933, when President Herbert Hover didn't do anything sustantive to fix the economic situation. All of the people screaming no bailout, are ignorant of history and what happened when we let institutions fall. They are ignorant of what happened when government let the market correct itself. It can't. The situation has gone too far. We need some sort of goverment action, regulation, oversight, and checks with balances to rebuild the financials in a responsible way. So with all due respect, I disagree with you 110%. I will let history educate and remind you of what happens when the ignorance of mainstreet and Republican philosophy interferes with what should be done.

Damn Mike, no room for your ego and John's in the same place.  It is totally partisan to believe that the blame can't be spread around evenly.  Show us where the Dems tried to do something that would have prevented this.  You won't be able to.  I only brought up the NYT article since they are very known for their left-leaning reporting, and they saw the problems with the plan a long time ago.

However, tayme is right about personal responsibility.  Everyone who was involved got themselves in to this mess.  It's a common story, and one that will repeat itself in the future.  Pure stupidity, blinded by greed.