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I find it really annoying that it's damn near impossible to spec a clean machine from Dell. even if you choose the absolute bare minumum software load-out, you STILL get tons and tons of crap trials installed when you receive your machine.

Why do we till have to do the laborious first step of wiping all the crap, and re-installing a clean OS when we buy a new computer?

Exactly.  That's why I build my own PCs from scratch.

Actually, that Iron Man offering made me look elsewhere instead of purchasing an XPS M1550 yesterday.

Well, that's the DOJ vs Microsoft ruling in action...

One of the bigger items Microsoft was found "guilty" of in the anti-trust trial was that Microsoft made limits on crapware one of the conditions for the cheapest OEM licenses.

Microsoft's defense was that OEMs got paid to install this stuff and the discount was a way to compensate the OEMs for not taking the crapware money so that users would get a more consistant Windows experience.

The prosecution's claim was that Microsoft was making it harder for crapware vendors to make money.

This, of course, set the precedent that "harm to the consumer" was no longer the measure of anti-trust violations.

Mike, that is quite interesting. I was flabbergasted when I read that teh EU was considering fining MS for preventing software from changing the kernel, as it made it harder for anti-virus companies to make anti virus software. I mean, seriously, WTF? Isn;t the ideal future one in which we don't NEED AV software? Granted, we're not there yet, but insisting that they effectively leave security holes in their software to appease 3rd parties seems dubious at best with regards to consumer safety.

gorath,

In the US, at least, prior to DOJ vs Microsoft the final measure used to determine whether business practices by a monopoly were unfair was harm to the consumer. After all, just about any action by any company has an effect on competitors so you can't just say, "Company X just improved their product so mine's obsolete and can't compete as well as it used to. Make them take the new version off the market." because improving product is considered consumer good.

As a result of the "no restriction on business is acceptable" mindset that came about with the "Reagan Revolution" we saw the measure of "If it hurts a business, it's bad. If it hurts a consumer, it's irrelevant" move from deregulation of corporations and destruction of consumer protection enforcement to the way that anti-trust law was interpreted.

I had to remove 600 megabytes of crapware (including Toshiba's videogame collection) after I bought my latest Satellite. Then I had to remove a load of crap off my girlfriend's new Dell. Not overwhelming, but not fun either. I'm thinking about building my own from scratch the next time around.

BTW, Pandora has a new set of channels as part of Microsoft's "I'm a PC" promotion. They even have a Rock 'n Roll channel called 'Bill Gates' and a 'Sean Siler' geek rock channel for the real PC guy. As Paul would say, "Good stuff." :-)

But let's be honest: Microsoft also installs plenty of crapware onto PCs. Think Microsoft Works, which no one with Office ever uses. And though I like Windows Media Encoder, Windows Moviemaker and Windows DVD Maker (all of which I use), my Little Lady doesn't burn DVDs, doesn't shoot video or wants to convert AVIs into WMVs; she doesn't even watch video on her laptop. One person's useful tools can be another's crapware.

OK, soit ça énerve, soit ça amuse.. ça dépend des jours :-). Donc, il y a presque

Seven, if some of the included MS software was not added, people would be complaining about it's lacking. Also, MS should compete with iLife suite.

My cheaper ACER laptop has plenty-o-junk, but it was ACER that installed it. You know, if it saved me $200, and all I need to do is uninstall it, then I'm OK with it. This cute 15.6 in WS cheapo cost $400 bucks!!! BTW it plays DVD with Win Media 11 fine, and it only has 2GB with Vista Home Premium.

So I can get a digital movie "Pre Loaded" but I still can't get a Dell machine pre-loaded with Windows Home Server?

go figure......

What the heck is Dell smoking? Why the heck do you want to buy Ironman, when you're buying a PC? When I got my copy of Vista on my machines, I had absolutely zero trial software and no crapware. To say Microsoft Works is crapware, we could argue that the way Apple leeches MobileMe, iTunes, Bonjour, Quicktime, and the Apple Mobile Device Driver could also be considered to be crapware. What the heck does a Media Player really need a kernel level driver anyway? Just like the antivirus companies don't really need that kind of access either. Thats why people are shifting away from anti-virus and moving to security suites with stronger firewall.

Yet like Ed Bott said in a recent article, " It takes a supersize helping of chutzpah to create an ad that criticizes Windows for its “bloat” and then deliver an upgrade with as much unnecessary junk as this one.

I am hoping in Windows Seven, that we get greater opportunity for intial customization within Windows. I hope Microsoft will allow us to remove anything thats isn't part of the core operating system. So for example if you want to remove Internet Explorer, that is an option during install or within the Control Panel. I know Microsoft is taking a few of the items duplicated in the Live Brand and taking them out of Windows Seven. That is a great idea. If the applications can be removed or made optional, I think that will please a lot of folks. If you need it, go download it. Plain and simple.

Hmm, interesting marketing gimmick. Does anyone know why this was done? Is it an attempt to create a market differentiator? At least they picked a decent flick I guess. Now, if they had a real selection then it might be useful - if one was building a _media_ machine . . .

You are right, DRWAM; that's why I said one person's crapware is another's useful software tools. For me, Windows DVD Player alone is worth the price of the laptop; although I know some people have networked homes in which they watch movies on their laptop, I have two 50-plus inch TVs in my home and my computer serves both as my work and play toy. When I'm putting together a new white paper for a client, I'm going to watch a movie while doing it. I'm not going to watch "Iron Man" on a 15-inch screen when a 62-inch HDTV will work even better.

Windows DVD Maker is awesome. It's easy to put together a fairly sophisticated (though basic) menu, customize it with some music of your choice, and unlike Nero or Sony's DVD software, you don't need a manual to use it. And it isn't really chintzy like ULead's offering (which is loaded up on Toshiba laptops alongside DVD Maker).

But not everybody wants all that mess.  My Little Lady only uses her laptop for Web surfing, loading up her MP3 player and occasional word processing. She prefers a thin-client with just the basics; Windows Media Center intrigues her, but since she doesn't watch videos or movies on her laptop, it seems to her a waste of space. My sister is the same way; she barely uses the three-year-old Sony Vaio my mother gave her last year except to go on Myspace and download music and videos.

But ultimately, one person's useful items is someone else's crapware. And if you don't use DVD Maker, Media Center, Works, etc., all that software is just crap.

I've never known Works to be bundled by microsoft, it's generally the PC manufacturer that bundles it.

Seven, they often say that one man's trash is another's treasure:)

It sort of applies.

Gorath, the new Works is very nice and fairly clean UI. I like it, but I'm easy to please. However, my kids just love the clip art through the web in Office. They are constantly printing a collage of pics.

"MS should compete with iLife suite"

I think they are already in a position to claim the title there.  They already have the multimedia products in Vista Home Premium (honestly, have you SEEN Windows Media Center?), and how can you possibly compare Apple's online offerings to the superior (and did I mention, FREE) Windows Live platform?

Apple:  *crickets*

"one man's trash is another's treasure"

I would also say that the "bloatware" argument as applied to accessory software apps is already being addressed by decoupling many of the programs in favour of Windows Live versions in Windows 7.

I really like that idea.  Mostly because current customers don't understand why Windows Photo Gallery and Windows Mail have to remain on the computer even though the superior Windows Live versions of each are also there.  To date, there still isn't even an easy option to set those programs as defaults in Audit Mode as part of the preinstallation process.  What I have to do is just tell users to use the Windows Live versions after first-time boot, which is a "unpleasant physical sensation in the posterior".

Doc knows what that means.

I disagree. The 'default program' utility can be used and I think it's pretty easy, even on my cheapo ACER, which includes Media Center I might add. Start, Default Program, Set your default programs, then click what you wan to use. DO I GET THE JOB REPLACING SEINFELD YET? I'm handsome, well built and photogenic too!  :)

" I play a doctor on TV, but I'm actually a real doctor too....", "I have sold my soul for money to push products, but hey, if it doesn't bother you, then it doesn't bother me either. Oh yeh, about Windows..."

How's the audition?

Wae, I think I may have gotten it the other way around. Besides, I know some people that don't find that posterior sensation too unpleasant, and rather like it actually:o

I always get Dell laptops from their Outlet Store.

Pretty much all current models and some no longer available but quite nice (XPS M1210) are available. The last one I got was almost crapware free. No AV or AOL trials. Just Works, which is ridiculous. Bit I saved a bit of cash and got one configured with a discreet graphics card and the fast hard drive just like I would have ordered.

Same warranty as new, as well.

From my personal experience (having my 8th Dell Notebook at the moment), the time that Dell loaded it's machines with lots of crapware are long over.

My last two purchaes with them, in the last year, were a pleasant surprise, crapwarewise. As a consequence, for the first time i did not reinstall a fresh OS immediately, but simply removed the software i didn't want, and the machines run smoothly since.  

Actually, Dell was one of the first vendors who did listen and reduce the amount of Crapware to a reasonable amount, and they also made sure that by simply uninstalling the unwanted stuff it really went away.

So, sure, that Iron Man Offering is a bad joke at best, but it's not crapware in the sense that it impacts the system you buy in any way. It's just a sad try to generate combined revenue, which can't really surprise, givens Dells actual financial numbers.

When I bought my current Dell laptop at the start of last year, it had Roxio's CD burning app installed. The trouble was, that app didn't work AT ALL in Vista, and actually screwed some other windows functions up, as well as constantly spawning warnings!

If they've stopped doing crap like that, then good.

Most of the trialware on this new laptop is notinstalled, but the installer is in the start menu. So I guess it's really not affecting performance. I just need to figure out how to delete it so that the kids don't install accidentally. Again, add 10 GBs of crap if it will save me a few hundred dollars. BTW, my Mac Pro Tower had a trial version of MS Office and iWork on it. It sorta gives you the idea that MS and Apple are working together, perhaps together to improve our lives and/or computing needs.

BTW, I was just kidding about the ads since I can't act to save my life, and sorta look like a villain too. We can't all look like Paul Newman!

Sadly, I look like a villain as well, apparently. I remember when I got my first photo-licence about 12 or so years ago (there weren't any photographs on them before around then) my friends all took the pi**, saying I looked like a bond villain in the photo. They even gave me a bond villain-esque name, "the Scorpion"

lol