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"Awesome bar" oh please. This is a copy of Apple's Dock. Plain and simple. Like most things coming from Microsoft.

I like the background picture, is that a Windows 7 wallpaper or a Thurrott "Special" wallpaper?

Paul, did you find this chap just to prove a point? :-)

How's the performance so far, by the way?

Hey paul that is cool. Can you pass me a copy of WIndows 7. Please??????????????????????

I am on my knees begging.

Very cool, Paul. Can't wait for the beta!

@robertsjoe said:

"Awesome bar" oh please. This is a copy of Apple's Dock. Plain and simple. Like most things coming from Microsoft.

Is that all you can say? This is a copy of Apple, that is a copy of Apple. Next thing you'll say, Microsoft Office is a copy of something Apple did. Yet the GUI interface that Apple copied from Xerox Star and the Palo Alto Research Lab, nobody ever mentions that.

There are lot of things that Apple didn't do first and this argument is getting stale. Apple borrows a lot of tech for its OS and computers. Give credit to the other companies where its due.

I tried it as soon as I heard him talk about it on Twit today, works great. It would be nice if we can enable some of the other parts of it such as aero peak and proper jumplists, but this is fine for now :)

@robertsjoe

Trying to compare this to the apple dock is laughable at best, keep trolling.

@robertsjoe: Yeah. Major rip off the Mac OS X Dock! Even one of Microsoft's employee's confirmed that MS copied the Dock.

The presentation is really good but skip to 4:42:

channel9.msdn.com/.../PC24

There it is, the Dock... when Microsoft so ripped of off OS X... ripped it off by about 15 years before it made on to SO X.

Dude! Really.

So ... is there a taskbar that looks different? I spent some time looking at the Win7 Screenshots, and I just fail to see why this is the awesome compared to the shots from PDC and Pauls installation.

Damn, MS changed the only thing I liked better in their shell compared to OSX : the clickable windows button, and now they have the OSX-style icon only switching taskbar... NOOoooo...  Well I guess (and hope) they will be a way to revert to the old way of switching widows.

@techfan

Thanks for the link. If you also look at spot 21.45 he makes an interesting observation as well.

Raf's a genius!

Also, on the topic of MS stealing stuff from OSX (thank you, robertsjoe), Apple stole the GUI from Xerox (I think), they stole search from MS and managed to implement it quicker. I don't really care, my point is this: The world is better when we steal ideas from each other.

Would you really suggest that Xerox should be the only company allowed to market an OS with a GUI?

As a Windows user, if Apple has a feature, i don't care if they tell Steve Jobs they'll bring it right back as soon as they're finished. Steal it, borrow it, copy it, I don't care. Just make sure it's in the next edition of Windows that I buy, otherwise I'm going to the other guy.

If Pepsi didn't steal Coke, we'd be paying more for Coke.

If Apple didn't buy Next, you'd have no OSX, and probably no Apple. You think Google was the first company on the internet to do Search?

etc

@benjwan: Stole search from MS? You're kidding right? There were other players in search for the desktop way before MS did it. MS did nothing for the desktop search arena.

Confirmed works on x64!

@benjwah

I don’t think MS “stole” desktop search from apple and robertsjoe is correct in his observation that many companies were working in this area. MS was ahead of the game at one point but was slow to implement it. Funny thing is that when Vista was launched certain Mac fanboys got their knickers in a knot about how MS has stole the idea from Apple.

As for this working link OSX’s dock, I’ll reserve judgment – this isn’t even beta yet so the feature set won’t be confirmed. Personally I hope it doesn’t work like the Dock, I cringe at the very thought.

"Also, on the topic of MS stealing stuff from OSX (thank you, robertsjoe)"

Point of correction. He didn't say they "stole" it, he said they "copied" it.

Good for them. After years of deriding it (Paul Thurrott: the dock "inexplicably houses both running and non-running programs"), the WinJihadists will now proclaim it as the greatest thing since sliced bread. "Awesome Bar". Phhht.

Microsoft and Apple "borrow" from each other liberally. That's what moves technology forward, and I'm glad that they're both there, poking a stick in each other's eye. Windows is better because of Apple, and OS X is better because of Windows.

The iPhone is even better because of Windows Mobile, because if the latter didn't suck like a Hoover, there'd be no need for the former.

Apple is an innovator, but they're not terribly good "inventors". They tend to take existing technology and present it in a more usable fashion--often in ways no one ever thought of before. THAT moves the industry forward. They have their place (no smarta$$ comments from the peanut gallery), and I'm glad they're there.

www.winsupersite.com/reviews/macosx_panther.asp

"They tend to take existing technology and present it in a more usable fashion"

In other words they STEAL peoples inventions!!!!!!!!

Grrrrrrr! Evil Apple!!!!!!! /s

So you prove our point that all companies put new spins on ideas. Apple doing it doesn't make it ok, while Microsoft doing it is horrible crime.

Oh thank you fellow Apple user for completely derailing another topic.

Personally, I love aspects of the OS X Dock. I also love aspects of the Windows Start Menu/Taskbar.

If MS can find a way to combine the two, then good on them.

So far though, the screens and explanations/demos I've seen don't impress. It'll be nice to see what this thing can do by the time the public beta rolls around.

"Apple doing it doesn't make it ok, while Microsoft doing it is horrible crime."

Hey jacka$$, that's not what I said at all. Read my words (or, as mikegalos says,    do     I     need     to     type     slower?). What did I say about Microsoft adopting aspects of the Apple dock? "Good for them." I actually agree with RTE, who said, "If MS can find a way to combine the two, then good on them."

Or as Caribou Barbie would say, "You Betcha!"

I can't even parse what you're trying to say, to be honest. My suggestion? Go back to your cave and eat your mastodon.

@daveinla: "Well I guess (and hope) they will be a way to revert to the old way of switching widows."

Why do you want to switch widows? Not happy with the one you have? ;-)

just to clear up a few things.

1. Yes, I still think mixing "shortcuts to non-running applications" and "shortcuts to running applications and open window' in the same UI space is a mistake, and will be confusing to users. Microsoft is trying to visually differentiate these two types of things in the new taskbar, and does so much better than Apple does. But it's still a mistake, I think. I don't like it on OS X at all. We'll see if this implementation makes a difference. I doubt it.

2. So, yes, the New Enhanced Taskbar (the real name of this thing) is absolutely a rip-off of the OS X Dock. I wrote that in my preview. I'm not going to pretend its OK now that Microsoft is doing it.

3. Yes, Apple did integrate Spotlight Search into Mac OS X *after* Microsoft announced its intention to do Windows Search in Longhorn. Thanks to the many LH delays, Apple was able to get it to market more quickly, but with a less capable system. They did do it only after Microsoft announced. it very publicly. Did they "steal" it? No, but they did copy the feature. Years later both OSes have very similar ways to search for and launch apps, documents, and other things. Big deal. Both systems have floating windows too. Let's not get all pedantic on each other. Some things do belong in an OS. This is one of them.

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rafael rafael rafaerl :D

"Oh thank you fellow Apple user for completely derailing another topic."

That credit should go to robertsjoe. :-)

I wonder if the Mac users are embarrassed by him. Again, I think Paul asked him to comment here just to prove a point about the iCabal.

Nice TWIT show, by the way. Ed Bott comes across as very sensible and knowledgeable.  

I'm not so sure that there will be much confusion about switching to running programs or launching that program. Either way, the end result is that you've (effectively) switched to that program, or window.

The only thing I can imagine being a bit of a stepping stone is "how do I know if all my programs are closed?"

My only question is, who is that 1 reviewer that both Paul and Ed mentioned? Interesting. :-)

@lotsamystuff

And precisely where did I say  YOU said that?

In case your jacka$$ shades are still on, take them off and read what I wrote again:

" So you prove our point that all companies put new spins on ideas..."

(see how I agreed with your point?)

" Apple doing it doesn't make it ok, while Microsoft doing it is horrible crime."

Which is what exactly robertsjoe was trolling about when he said:

"Awesome bar" oh please. This is a copy of Apple's Dock. Plain and simple. Like most things coming from Microsoft. "

"The only thing I can imagine being a bit of a stepping stone is "how do I know if all my programs are closed?""

Easy.  Put a little corner sub-icon on the main one, similar to how they do the shortcut, CD-burning, or network sync overlays.

Make it a small version of the "run" icon similar to the one they use for Windows Vista (it's hidden by default - more people recognize it as the PowerShell icon).

Problem solved.

BTW:  I hate Quick Launch.  The Windows XP Start Menu made it obsolete.  I'm glad it was turned off by default.  I usually turn it off in Vista on my own systems.

By the way, this approach works well for single instance applications. What if a user wants to open a new IE window? Or a new Word instance?

BTW:  That's a good video on Channel 9.  It really shows that they use user interface studies in their product revisions and concepts.

I wonder how much of their over UI studies are gathered from the CEIP.

When customers ask me what the CEIP is, I use the same term he does: "it's the Neilson ratings for how you use the software.  Microsoft uses it to make software work the way you do".

Oh, my.

"Also, on the topic of MS stealing stuff from OSX (thank you, robertsjoe), Apple stole the GUI from Xerox (I think), they stole search from MS and managed to implement it quicker."

Uh, do you realize how little sense this makes? Apple implemented it quicker. This is another way of saying they did it first. Besides, the idea of "search" was all over the place for years. The old Mac OS had "search" in various forms. OS X 10.0 shipped with Unix search tools (locate) which in turn had been around for years. Stole search. Geez.

Paul's right about mixing running and not running apps in the dock/taskbar. It's stupid and confusing to users. The idea of using dock space for frequently used apps is just bad, although not quite as bad as the Windows tendency (and sometimes OS X users do it to) to clutter the desktop with dozens of shortcuts/aliases. What is the point of a pretty desktop covered with that crap?

The better way is to use the Dock/Taskbar as a visual cue for the apps that are running. Launch apps via Spotlight---I assume the Windows search tools can do the same---or addons like Quicksilver, Butler, Launchbar or the Windows equivalents. This is actually much faster than any point and click system, and seems consistent with the Windows tradition of allowing keyboard access to everything.

@Cfischer83: I don't remember what happens at 21:45 but will have another look.

You're welcome.

I like the new <s>taskbar</s> I mean New Enhanced Taskbar.  I don't remember where it was that I read, or saw in a clip, but if you close a program, the taskbar icon will go away, as it did before. The only time the icon on the taskbar won't go away when you close the program is when the icon is pinned to the taskbar and only users can pin and unpin programs, IIRC.

Long Zheng also blogged about the taskbar icons having text label, as in previous versions of Windows, so that should be helpful to those that what that. But for me, I really like the icon-only looks of the new Dock... er Taskbar... I mean "New Enhanced Taskbar" -- oh that bar thing at the bottom of the desktop!

And on an off-topic note: Bravo to Rafael! Genius!

"The only thing I can imagine being a bit of a stepping stone is "how do I know if all my programs are closed?""

I had to watch the video in full to see the functionality.

It's already done, and you don't need an overlay sub-icon at all as I previously suggested.

Running programs show up as a framed button (ie. more 3D).

One question comes to mind though:  Will Windows 7 actually run on non-Direct3D9 hardware?

The silly, idiotic, and totally unnecessary "who copied whom" argument. Who cares? I don't care if MS copies some feature as long as it makes my life easier. In the Mac world, it's taboo to admit that Apple even copies features. After all, there are no photocopiers in Cupertino - only a Time Machine.

Does anybody see this as the real first step into a whole new computing paradigm, where storage memory and processing memory become one and the same?

The first time I saw this was on Windows Mobile, where RAM is divided up.  Essentially, you have half the RAM as a flash drive, the other is for processing that same program information.

What happens when you can just take the "storage bits", and process them directly by "turning them on", from the same space?

Well, for one, it takes a whole new method of thinking about software development, doesn't it?

Colour hot-tracks are neet-o!  ;)

Judging purely from the snapshots I've seen, am I the only one who thinks the taskbar looks terrible.  

While its sexy from a marketing perspective, the semi translucent glassy look makes the contrast between the icons and background hard on the eyes.

It's too tall.  I want all my desktop for my applications.  I could enable auto-hide.  I assume this feature is still there.  Hopefully we'll be able to choose different heights.

Nothing visually differentiates the start orb from app icons and shortcuts.  They're all about the same size, color, and have similar visual embellishments.  I thought the Vista start orb was well done and really emphasized its importance to novice users.  As a software developer, I always use this test when creating the UI: "Would my not so computer savvy grandmother be able to figure this out?"  I'm not sure the answer is yes in this case.

Like others, I agree that mixing the running apps with the shortcuts is terrible.  The box around the running app icon just doesn't do it for me.  It doesn't scream running app to me and it looks terrible.  

I have a suggestion for MS if they insist on mixing shortcuts and running apps as we see in the current build.  Make the shortcut (non-running apps) icons gray or some monochromatic color that blends with the task bar color palette and the running apps their full color.  This fits in nicely with the "light up" marketing phrase that's been used to talk about W7.

I personally like the black reflective taskbar in Vista.  Its easy to see the icons and text, yet it seems to be unobtrusive visually.  Maybe this is because I have a monitor that has black trim immediately around the display surface.

I hope we'll have an option to switch to the look of the Vista style taskbar.

I have the same desires as others: be able to reorder the task buttons, keep tray icons under control, etc.  I'd still like to see these features.

"When customers ask me what the CEIP is, I use the same term he does: "it's the Neilson [sic] ratings for how you use the software.  Microsoft uses it to make software work the way you do"."

Ugh. Software designed by consensus and popular opinion? Yes, please continue comparing Microsoft's software development to the Nielsen ratings. It explains why Vista is the OS equivalent of Britney Spears and "Dancing With The Stars".

;-)  <---the all-forgiving wink...aww, never mind.

Hey, 39:10.

Shoutout to Paul!

Waethorn, I've seen the excellent channel9 video, and had spotted the "frame" effect on running apps. However, (call me psychic, psychotic or whaterver) I can see me having some troubles showing some people how to use it. My question was more about user resistance really, and kind of rhetorical.

One thing I really do wonder about though, is, do you get a border or frame for every instance of a running program, or just the one, to show that it's running. I mean, if you get a new border for every instance, and you have a a handful of instances, then it could look messy very quick.

I'm only curious because they didn't launch a lot of instances of anything in the CH9 vid.

@ shark, from what I gathered from the video (really looking forward to getting to play with it), if you click on the actual icon itself, it will open up another instance, but if you mouse over the icon, then choose a current instance, then you switch to that.

At least that's how I understand it, but it does seem kinda wrong, so I may have mis-interpreted that aspect.

"It's too tall.  I want all my desktop for my applications.  I could enable auto-hide.  I assume this feature is still there."

It is.

"Hopefully we'll be able to choose different heights."

Small and large icons.  It's still there.  DPI settings will affect that too.

"I thought the Vista start orb was well done and really emphasized its importance to novice users."

As the video suggests, make a good app, and a pretty icon, and users will want to pin it to the taskbar.  That makes YOUR program more important.

Watch the video.

"The box around the running app icon just doesn't do it for me.  It doesn't scream running app to me and it looks terrible."

It doesn't need to.  That's the point.

"I hope we'll have an option to switch to the look of the Vista style taskbar."

You do.

"I have the same desires as others: be able to reorder the task buttons, keep tray icons under control, etc.  I'd still like to see these features."

Many of them are still there.

As I said before:  Watch the video.  It makes more sense from a development standpoint, and there are many new features available to you to make it easier for end-users.

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I just want to know when the next Jerry and Bill tv spot is coming out????

"One thing I really do wonder about though, is, do you get a border or frame for every instance of a running program, or just the one, to show that it's running. I mean, if you get a new border for every instance, and you have a a handful of instances, then it could look messy very quick."

When you have multiple instances or supported tabs (like IE's tabs), it will show up as a layered button border, similar to a stack of window panes.  There is a limit to the number of stacks, so it's not going to show you like 17 layered buttons.  I think it's 3 or 4 maximum - just enough to show you that multiple instances are running.  Single instances only show up as a single window pane-styled button.

"if you click on the actual icon itself, it will open up another instance, but if you mouse over the icon, then choose a current instance, then you switch to that."

That's right, according to the video.

"It explains why Vista is the OS equivalent of Britney Spears and "Dancing With The Stars""

Well, it's people like Britney Spears that use Macs, though.

"Software designed by consensus and popular opinion?  Yes, please continue comparing Microsoft's software development to the Nielsen ratings. It explains why Vista is the OS equivalent of Britney Spears and "Dancing With The Stars"."

As opposed to Poopertino force-feeding it down your throat.  Ya, that's why Snow Leopard is just a bunch of bug fixes with no new features.

On a related note:  

I like fois gras.

It's good on cake.

Its funny Wae, you keep saying that, but have you seen Snow Leopard?

Don't be silly, Wae has a snow leopard fixin hiz cabl teevee. Wae knows exactly what snow leopard is.

Thank God that Microsoft never copied the one button mouse

"Rather than focusing primarily on new features, Snow Leopard will enhance the performance of OS X, set a new standard for quality and lay the foundation for future OS X innovation."

Apple Press Release, June 9, 2008

"Its funny Wae, you keep saying that, but have you seen Snow Leopard?"

I'm just going by what Steve and Paul said at WWDC.

If you don't believe me, go watch the keynote.

What I'd like to see is how they're going to tackle 64-bit drivers with the 3rd-party peripherals.  If they are really "moving to a truly 64-bit platform" (haven't they said this for years now?), that means the kernel goes 64-bit.  Eh, voila - no more support of 32-bit drivers.  

Bad news for 3rd-parties that write them that way.  Even more bad news for users.

"Wae has a snow leopard fixin hiz cabl teevee. Wae knows exactly what snow leopard is."

Unlike what "dude" said, that was actually funny.

Waethorn wrote:

"...is just a bunch of bug fixes with no new features."

****************

mikegalos@msn.com said:

"Rather than focusing PRIMARILY on new features, Snow Leopard will enhance the performance of OS X, set a new standard for quality and lay the foundation for future OS X innovation."

Emphasis mine. Come back and play again, and again neither one or you have seen it, so continue to speculate.

"Come back and play again, and again neither one or you have seen it, so continue to speculate."

If Steve is wrong, what else could he be wrong about?....

I don't have to speculate about Windows 7 - M3 is already available, and Microsoft is very open about it.

Where's the "openness" from Apple?

"If Steve is wrong, what else could he be wrong about?...."

I guess he's just a LIAR!

So, what's the deal with the "all-forgiving wink"? You use it so often, lotsa, that you sound like the 'Caribou Barbie'.

:-)

Dude

Considering that Apple considered things like updating help text and adding an additional screen saver as "new features" in Leopard, it's unlikely that any new build doesn't have anything Apple would consider telling their users are "new features".

Since even by Apple's criteria for a new feature they feel compelled to lower expectations, it's a pretty safe bet that Snow Leopard will be essentially feature free.

Of course, by the time it releases, Apple will probably say list "Updated About Box Text" as a new feature since it will have a new version number and copyright date.

And they'll get 30 new articles on why the updated text is compelling and worth $129. Goatberg will have a 3-part series on whether this is just industry leading dialog box text or the best dialog box text that could ever be written. And Joe Wilcox will write both an Apple Watch article praising the new dialog's virtues and a Microsoft Watch article saying how Apple's new text box wording has doomed Windows.

In other words neither one of you know nothing about what Apple is looking to do with Snow Leopard, thought so.

well, dude, do you know any better? At least they have based their lack of new features on something. Whether they will be proven right or wrong remains to be seen.

But seriously, you're basing your counter argument on what, exactly?

Oh, and to save you reading the 3-part Goatberg article on the Snow Leopard's about box, the conclusion will be.

"In short, after 3 weeks of testing, while I'd have to say that Snow Leopard's About Box text is the best that could ever be written, I'd also thought that about Leopard's About Box and despite raising the bar to unimaginable heights before, Apple did more than I thought was possible. So, to be safe, while I think that Snow Leopard's About Box text IS the bext that can ever be written and raises the bar far beyond what Redmond could ever do, I also have faith that Apple will continue to do the impossible and make the upcoming 10.7 "lolcat" release even more amazing than any of us can imagine."

;-)

"In other words neither one of you know nothing about what Apple is looking to do with Snow Leopard, thought so."

I only know what Steve said.  He said they're not focused on features.  Instead, it'll be a point release (they all are).  If I'm wrong, he must be wrong too.  If you have some magical insight into the inner workings of Apple, moreso than Steve Jobs, please by all means enlighten us.  Otherwise, I'll quote losta in saying:  "STFU"

"Oh, and to save you reading the 3-part Goatberg article on the Snow Leopard's about box, the conclusion will be."

Slow day in the innovation labs at Cupertino....

And, of course, Apple will issue the following ads:

"Shakespeare": PC is standing behind several desks and hundreds of monkeys with quill pen and parchment. Mac asks, "PC, what's with the monkeys?". PC replies, "With Snow Leopard's new About Box text, I couldn't keep up so I hired a room full of monkeys away from a guy who was trying to write a new Shakespeare play to try to catch up." Mac smirks.

"Sports car": PC drives into frame in a red convertible wearing a '70s disco shirt and gold chains. When Mac asks what's with the new look, PC says, "With all the people switching to Snow Leopard for the new About Box text, I have to do something to get people to notice me." Mac counters by saying, "Hey, PC, it's OK. I'm sure somebody will still like you for what you are." PC replies hopefully, "Really think so?" and Mac just smirks.

For those that are worried about the new taskbar:

www.dasmirnov.net/.../windows-7-superbar-can-function-like-the

BTW, that was funny, mike.

Since we're already OT, do NY Times tech journos and bloggers publish nonsense simply to provide fodder to Apple marketing?

www.dasmirnov.net/.../microsoft-introduces-windows-98-ending-9

Apple's latest ad talks about Microsoft discontinuing the Vista brand.

O/T, but loads of fun:

www.youtube.com/watch

Yes, losta, Canada has the best comedians, but the US has the funniest politicians (they are the biggest joke).

Wow. Mike and Waethorn: Anti-Apple tag team!

You saw it here first folks!

Next week they're up against The Bushwhackers!

RunTimeError

Nonsense, I've been against the Bush family since 1979.

I can see why there is so much anti-GOP sentiment here, but in what way is that even relevant?

Anyway, liberals like to think that every Republican is a bigoted religious nut  idiot with a low IQ. That's far from the truth. What you're seeing now is George W. Bush's and Karl Rove's doing. Because of them, even a moderate like McCain has to pander to the lunatics in the base.

You don't like bush? What do you prefer? a brazillian?

Shark,

Forget your straw man arguments about what "liberals think" and talk to some of us instead. We'll be quite happy to tell you what we really believe.

The issue isn't that "Liberals" think that all Republicans are "bigoted religious nut idiots with a low IQ". That's clearly not the case. For example, I'm a "Liberal" and I know that's not true. And I'm sure that Teddy Roosevelt, Dwight Eisenhower and William F. Buckley are all spinning in their graves seeing what's become of their party.

And the problem we have with McCain isn't that we think he's "a bigoted religious nut idiot with a low IQ".

The problem we have with McCain is that he's demonstrated that he's absolutely willing to follow the orders of people who are fine with selling out their country and any values they had to "bigoted religious nut idiots with a low IQ" in exchange for pay offs to the top 1/2 of 1% of the country.

gorath

Or a landing strip or just a nice trim...

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Mike,

I have talked to people. That's what puts me off. There's always this holier than thou attitude when you talk to University Professors or even among the liberals in the media like Keith Olbermann and Rachel Maddow. At least Sean Hannity has Alan Colmes. MSNBC is becoming as unwatchable as Fox News.

Like I said, McCain had no choice but to embrace the new GOP philosophy that W and Rove have created if he wanted to become President.

In the end, I would probably prefer Obama because of the Supreme Courts judges situation and all that, but I'm actually scared that people like Nancy Pelosi and Barney Frank will become more influential.

Shark

I'm sure you've talked to people. But since you think that "liberals like to think that every Republican is a bigoted religious nut  idiot with a low IQ. " you clearly have been talking not to liberals but to conservatives or GOP partisans who were all too happy to tell you "what liberals think".

Shark

As for "McCain had no choice but to embrace the new GOP philosophy ", someone who will do or say anything that is needed to get elected especially once he had the nomination is hardly a "maverick" or a "leader". That's the hallmark of a compliant tool who will be happy to do whatever he's told no matter the cost to the nation.  And we've been there, done that, paid a massive price for it in blood, treasure and honor and didn't even get the t-shirt.

First thing I agree with Mike on in well..  ever: Teddy Roosevelt, earns his place on Mt. Rushmore.

Mike,

I don't know too many GOP partisans.  I used to live in NC earlier (not in the RDU area) where I met a lot of these GOP partisans, who spewed crap about Hillary and Barack. You probably refuse to believe that a liberal can be bigoted. The truth is, there are bigots on both sides. And unlike the MS-Apple argument, one side does not outnumber the other in this case.  

RE: McCain, lot of Democrats voted for the Iraq war, including (maybe) future VP, Sen. Biden. There's a reason Democrats liked McCain until 2008 and there's a reason Kerry asked him to be his VP candidate in 2004. There's also a reason most conservatives didn't warm up to McCain until he announced his VP pick.

Windows 7 build 6801 really rocks. I'm running it for a few days now, and I have to say, it is solid and much further compared to pre beta vista builds .

After playing with it on Vmware, I have loaded the image on my WDS server, and installed it "across the wire" on my main machine, which also runs Vista SP1, Server 2008 and OSX 10.5.5 :)

Anyway, I'm thinking of using Windows 7 (installed the 64 bit version) as my main OS, as it really is faster then Vista, and I really like some features, like  the libraries features, as I have most of my media on my domain controller.

The new enhance task bar is a nice feature, I like these shortlists or whatever they are called, for instance the IE8 icon gets you the history, media player, your last played stuff. The preview off the taskbar is also quite nice, with all open tabs being displayed.

I don't get the discussion about the OSX dock, as this enhanced taskbar is clearly different and much more usable.

A clarification: I didn't mean all liberals when I wrote the original comment.

Anyway, I'll be glad when these elections are over and we can go back to talking about technology. :-)  

Trying to stay on topic.

I use Windows. Could I use OSX? O'course, but I won't. Why? Because I feel more confident with Windows. I know where to scratch when it tinkles, and where to rub when it aches.

OSX is not fail-proof. I've been using it a LOT, and wouldn't have it at home, cause the problems it may arise are not THAT easy to repair.

And I love the overall Windows logic.

That said, I know this taskbar is better than the Dock. I loved the dock at first, but then I realized that the window handling was not as polished as it could be. The stacks stuff raised the bar, but I still think there is time for Windows to step into the context thingy once again.

"And the problem we have with McCain isn't that we think he's "a bigoted religious nut idiot with a low IQ"

Right. It's Sarah Palin who's the bigoted religious nut idiot with the low IQ.

Kidding! Just kidding!

McCain is an honorable man that I disagree with on most issues. I'll be happy (I hope) to see the return of the distinguished Senator once he escapes from the clutches of the people who ran his campaign and have gotten him portrayed as different person. The guy I used to regard as a principled conservative is still in there somewhere, I think. I hope he goes back to being like John Warner, an old school gentelmen, a man of his word, with views on issues that are not the same as mine.

Go look at the Al Smith memorial dinner speech that McCain did a few weeks ago in a joint non-political appearance with Obama (youtube). He was funny, self-deprecating, speared Obama with some good lines, but...it wasn't nasty. He told jokes that had Hillary Clinton in stitches laughing.

I'll be so happy when this election is over with and the bashing will just be Macs and PCs.

In the spirit of being on topic, Paul's conclusion on Win7 M3 is interesting,

"If you're a Windows fan, as I am, these are heady times. We've lived under a cloud since the disappointments that have followed and dogged Windows since that 2003 edition of PDC, and we've sat and watched as Windows Vista has failed to live up to expectations and to Microsoft's lofty predictions. This time around, however, the future looks bright. Windows 7 is already better than we had hoped for, more useable, and more exciting. This release will turn the tide of public perception for both Windows and Microsoft. It makes everything OK again.

Windows 7 M3 is the single most exciting release to come out of Microsoft since ... well, I don't know when. It's been that long."

Well. So much for the party line (from Paul and in most comments here) of "Vista is fine, in fact, it's great. Apple's just lying about Vista."

Personally, I hope Win7 is as great as he hopes. Apple is having to easy of a time of it with Vista, and some healthy competition would be good. I might even run it with Parallels some day :).

Pingback from  links for 2008-11-03 | hxf148

"Yes, Apple did integrate Spotlight Search into Mac OS X *after* Microsoft announced its intention to do Windows Search in Longhorn"

Why not also say that desktop search was not something Microsoft came up with? Other companies had come up with the idea years *before* Microsoft even showed it publicly. So don't try and pass it off as some Microsoft innovation. And just because some other company did it, but not tightly integrated in to the OS, does not mean it was Microsoft's idea. That would be like saying that Microsoft came up with the web browser because they were the first to so tightly integrate it in to the OS. I was searching all my desktop files, including Exchange emails, Office documents (and more) years before Microsoft showed some demo.

So, with Paul's admissions that MS ripped-off the Apple dock in Windows 7

"So, yes, the New Enhanced Taskbar (the real name of this thing) is absolutely a rip-off of the OS X Dock."

Will the rest of you Microsoft fanboys agree? Come now, even your fearless leader admits it.

robertsjoe,

Who gives a damn? A good idea is a good idea wherever it comes from. Otherwise you could only ever have one type of camera, because you couldn't copy the premise of taking a picture. You could never have an more than one type and make of automatic washing machine. One type of vacuum cleaner. One type of petrol motor car.

Rubbish. All around us are examples of where an idea originated somewhere, and was then taken by a competitor in its basic sense and 'improved' or 'refined' in some manner, and so the competitive capitalist cycle goes on and on.

So I'm not a Microsoft fangirl, but I will say that the Dock ahnd this are similar and that's potentially a bad thing as the Dock is hideous user interface item which combines too many disparate things in an awkward manner.

I'm also an Apple user and sadly it's fanatacism and childish 'go on admit it admit it' that makes me hang my head in shame. I also do the same when I see the same religious zeal from MS and Linux fans. It's pointless primate pecking ordering.

Get over it, someone once wrote a diary and journal as a web page and it became known as the blog but no one cares who was first. I get no satisfaction from using something because it had it first, I get satisfaction from the tool that gets the job done most effectively but I'm old enough, wise enough and likely ugly enough to know that what works for me doesn't work for everyone.

I wonder if he ever gets tired of trolling.

I wonder if he ever saw windows 1.0?

I still kinda like the start menu better than the dock, but it's a personal preference. I used an OS 9 program called Conceptual Menu [I think that was the name of it] to act like the Windows start menu. But the question remains.... will I be able to use it on my $400 Vista SP1 laptop? :)

Oops, forgot to thank Paul for the 7 Wallpaper. Thanks dude! Even the kids like it [for Daddy of course, as my favorite color is blue].

Just in case anyone cares, Rafael has added a note early in his post pointing out that what his technique enables is an older and largely not working form of the taskbar, NOT what was shown in demos at PDC.

One should avoid drawing any conclusions from it.  The public beta early in 2009 will be much more worthy of comment (and useless sidetracks into Apple and politics)

@lilserenity: "Who gives a damn? A good idea is a good idea wherever it comes from"

I agree. Paul should stop going on about "Microsoft demoed OS search before Apple" blah blah. Because, as you say "who gives  a damn". So either don't mention it - or if you do, you are suggesting that MS thought of it first. So then I mention that desktop search was thought of way before MS even demoed anything. You can't have it both ways.

So fine, don't care who was first. But people like Paul do, otherwise they wouldn't always come up with "demoed by MS before Apple". Double standards.

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What better way to try Windows 7 then installing it on the Mini 9? Having read all the commentary about

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