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This should be interesting...

--tayme

"The iPhone is a lousy, lousy phone and it disconnected us so often she eventually just called the gym so I could talk on a reliable phone. "

Didn't you say that was fixed in the 2.1 update, Paul?

"This should be interesting..."

I doubt it. Ocean will probably come up with a link to a blog that talks about how much Windows 7 sucks and that'll be the end of this topic.

Agree about the dropped calls, although I could go deeper into that conversation by questioning the choice of network, as Softbank here is easily the worst coverage-wise.

I really do with people would stop harping on about copy and paste though. I can count on one hand the amount of times it would actually have been useful for me over the last few months, as the software is written well enough that it's only rarely needed. Nobody I know uses MMS so meh. And I'm really happy Safari doesn't support Flash as it's mostly only used for ads and games these days - anybody with a flash-only site doesn't deserve my custom.

The rest though I certainly agree with. You missed two though Paul:

11. Todo syncing to/from iCal/Outlook

12. Notes syncing to/from Mail/Outlook

tayme

Yep. Ought to be amusing.

Of course, if Apple didn't have their insanely restricted developer program, every one of these could be fixed fairly easily.

Also interesting is the most popular item on the "fixed" page on the Please Fix the iPhone site is Apple's blatant Podcaster rip off (Remember Podcaster? The app that Apple blocked from distribution through iTunes even though it met all the rules. Then blocked from ad hoc distribution. Then introduced their own version)

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And despite all the bitching it still is doing well....in the US of course:)

www.marketwatch.com/.../story.aspx{7DDDC6C0-37E3-4534-B2D1-5F1399EBDB04}

Hmm that link seems broken here is the meat...

"The displacement of the RAZR by the iPhone 3G represents a watershed shift in handset design from fashion to fashionable functionality," said Ross Rubin, director of industry analysis for NPD. "Four of the five best-selling handsets in the third quarter were optimized for messaging and other advanced Internet features."

The top handset models in rank order, based on unit sales in Q3, were as follows:

1. Apple iPhone 3G

2. Motorola RAZR V3 (all models)

3. RIM Blackberry Curve (all models)

4. LG Rumor

5. LG enV2

OK. So I was wrong. Ocean did attempt to hijack the thread by posting a news item about how bad Windows was. Lindy attempted to hijack it by talking about sales figures.

Paul: The iPhone is great but has its share of problems.

Ocean: Al Jazeera said Windows 7 sucks. How true.

Lindy: Please let's not talk about iPhone problems. Let's talk about sales. If that doesn't work, I'll  bring up the XBox. If that doesn't work either, I'll call Republicans names.

;-)

And following the usual pattern, after "they can't be broken, look at their sales" will be:

They can't be broken, look how much profit Apple makes.

Of course, by the same logic, Windows - with a larger share of the OS market than iPhone has of the phone market - is near perfection.

This is the same "logic" Stephen Colbert uses to back up his character's support of global warming despite being a parody of an ultra-conservative: Al Gore's movie and book are best sellers, the market has spoken, global warming is real.

I'll take #6. Safari crashes all the time on me. I THINK it is when it approaches a page that tries to load Flash.

@Shark when I care what you think I will send you a card in the mail.

I dont have a iPhone so I dont know its limitations.  I own the #2 hottest selling phone in the US and I know its limitations well.

Lindy, you don't use Vista either,, But it doesn't stop you from bitching about it's limitations or problems???

I'm an iPhone user and it is a love/hate relationship. As a phone, it isn't that great. As a camera - come on - it isn't great either (even though many recipients of my iPhone photos say the photo quality is outstanding).

As far as MMS goes - I've told everyone that sends me one that it is useless.. because I'm an iPhone user.

However, with all this said - it performed flawlessly while I was out of the country. TelCel or whoever it was in Mexico never dropped a call. WiFi works better than my laptop (at least signal strength/reliability in hotels with weak access points).

I'm getting an Android phone today. I'm sure it will have issues as well.. but both of these phones have the other companies (including MS - no matter how much they want to deny the iPhone) frantically trying to catch up.

Someone should start a site like this for the iPod Touch! I regret ever upgrading it to 2.* As much as I love apple products I am growing more and more skeptical of ever buying anything else from this company.

I just hope that when I get a macbook pro it does not have this many problems.

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The iPhone is not a great phone as far as voice quality and range. The camera is in the middle of the pack for a phone camera. But I can tell you that AT&T is also to blame for the bad coverage. My wife uses it on T-mobile and we never are disconnected. Pretty much agree with all your points. But it's such a great internet device that it makes you forgive all of the above.

It would also be nice if they fixed the following Exchange annoyances:

1. Ability to minimise folders

 - I have ~10 folders with subfolders and the only way the iPhone displays the folder tree is with the entire thing expanded, making it more than 30 folders long. That's just plain ridiculous.

2. Ability to notify when new emails arrive in subfolders.

 - The iPhone only notifies you when emails arrive in your top-level inbox. New emails that are filtered by exhange-based rules into subfolders do not give you any notification until you manually refresh that folder. What would be nicer is the ability to choose which folders will notify you, but a start would be all folders.

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I agree the iPhone is not a great phone. I think Paul overstates it a bit, but it is also true that the iPhone is only peripherally a phone. I believe it is really the first halting and imperfect step to put desktop power in your pocket.

The main uncertainty in assessing the iPhone as a telephone is whether the problems are ATT, the iPhone, or both. I think both, however, I will say that the 3G network seems to handle calls with more clarity and reliability than my Verizon phone when the phones are in areas of weak signal strength.

Warts and all, the thing is now the best selling phone in America. And, Mike, Paul LOVES to spout marketshare numbers about Windows as proof of its inevitable superiority, so sauce for the goose and all that...

I use Vista, when I have to.  I have almost no problems with it save for file copy speeds and horrible battery life.  I just don't prefer it nor would I recommend it at this point in time if you had a choice.

I did not *** about the iPhone either, I dont own one.   I do see those limitations as affecting some people that use it for sure.  My point is despite its shortcomings it was the #1 selling phone in the US in Q3, or so says the WSJ/NPD.

chuckb84

Paul spouts marketshare about Windows and OS X to show what's selling.

Mac Fans spout iPhone sales figures when it's flaws and bugs are discussed to say the product works just fine because it sells.

See the difference?

Lindy

Of course, you are aware that NPD only tracks selected RETAIL sales of phones and doesn't include other channels, right?

(Hence the RAZR being their #1 selling phone every quarter for the last 5 years)

I have never ever had any drop-outs on my iPhone, which leads me to wonder if you all should be shouting at your comm's companies.  Oh btw I'm in the UK on O2.

The iPhone isn't perfect far from it, but I've recently had my hands on the Touch Pro and Samsung Omnia, and realised even with the iPhone issues, I couldn't go back to a windows mobile device.

And yet :

iPhone trumps RAZR as most purchased US consumer handset:

www.latimes.com/.../la-fi-iphone11-2008nov11,0,1641818.story

or

"iPhone more reliable than the competition: Study finds Apple handset fails less often than BlackBerrys and Palm Treos"

www.vnunet.com/.../iphone-reliable-competition

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"Paul spouts marketshare about Windows and OS X to show what's selling.

Mac Fans spout iPhone sales figures when it's flaws and bugs are discussed to say the product works just fine because it sells.

See the difference?"

No.

Paul spots Windows marketshare numbers whenever anyone points out what an utter piece of crap Windows is. The same is now done with the iPhone. It's not an intelligent response in either case.

In fact, you posted "Of course, by the same logic, Windows - with a larger share of the OS market than iPhone has of the phone market - is near perfection."

I know that is rhetorical, but in many cases this argument is used seriously. As you say, it's wrong regardless of the specific case.

I'm in the UK and with O2, and I've not had any dropped calls.

"Paul spouts marketshare about Windows and OS X to show what's selling.

Mac Fans spout iPhone sales figures when it's flaws and bugs are discussed to say the product works just fine because it sells.

See the difference?"

Nope, I can't see a difference all I can see is a straw man.

"Paul spots Windows marketshare numbers whenever anyone points out what an utter piece of crap Windows is. The same is now done with the iPhone."

The big difference is that Paul hasn't called the iPhone an "utter piece of crap". The same argument does not work in both cases.

Hey everyone is entitled to their opinion.  It's just usually Paul's is wrong.  Or at least completely out of touch with what most normal people think.

Paul would have you think that the iPhone is 50 percent awesome, 50 percent retarded.  Sounds pretty bad, huh.  Well, that's the point (of Paul's BS).

The truth is MUCH different.  The iPhone is VASTLY superior to any phone that came before it.  Like in another league. Got it?  Because it's really not disputable, unless your like crazy or something.

Perfect? Well, that's Paul's strawman.  He's arguing against something nobody says.  Nobody says its perfect.  Go back and read the original Walt Mossberg and David Pogue and big newspaper reviews of the original iPhone.  NOBODY SAID IT WAS PERFECT.  THEY ALL IDENTIFIED ISSUES.  Including the ones on the list above.  Of course, Paul will never stop lying and saying these guys didn't identify faults.  Except they did.  Ooops.

Now, the iPhone does have some unresolved problems (although Paul's BS about the phone aspect is WAY trumped up - it functions great as a phone, in part because you can, I don't know, actually  manage your phone numbers without reading the manual.  My wife still can't enter my phone number on her crap Nokia .

But why do these minor "problems" exist (eg, cut and paste, MMS, etc)  Paul never asks because he doesn't like the answer.  

They exist because Apple has spent its time on getting the more important stuff right first.  That's what makes the phone vastly better than anything that came before it (not saying its the best for every person, just objectively the best overall - by a WIDE margin).

You guys are attacking Paul for saying the iPhone is amazing but not perfect? What's wrong with all of you?Take a chill pill, folks. There's nothing wrong in suggesting improvements for a device, however good it is.

chuckb

I don't recall Paul ever using the argument "it sells well so it must work well" as the iPhone  fans do. (but, surprisingly, since they're usually the same people, don't think applies to desktops and laptops)

I have seen him say "it doesn't sell more than a trivial amount so it isn't a significant factor in the market" but that's a very different thing.

cesjr

Apparently Apple thought online podcast download was "the important stuff" because they blocked a potential competitor from selling a program that did just that and then decided to do it themselves.

Sorry, that's just scummy behavior.

Personally, I have had considerably more problems with my Treo and RAZR than the iPhone, which has not dropped a single call. the browser or an add-on app [thrid party] rarely quit. The Treo often needed to be reset and the RAZR gave a incompatible battery warraning several times a week. Both were replaced as well as my wife's RAZR. I would have to give my iPhone experience a top rating, in contrast to this post, as well as note that thrid party app crashes are most likely due to the third party app, not the iPhone.

Also, I would never bash Win Mobile as the medical apps are just superior to anything out there and run great, esoecially the radiology app. Maybe it needs a facelift in the opinion of others, but it still does a lot more useful stuff than I find at the iPhone app store. Did anyone see the 'Aunt Flo' app? It and several others will log a menstrual cycle. Just how many of this type of app is needed?

mikegalos@msn.com  said:

"I don't recall Paul ever using the argument "it sells well so it must work well" as the iPhone  fans do. "

Actually, I don't recall anyone using that argument for the iPhone in this thread either.  Other than you, that is.

MIke, if Apple offered the abilty to DL podcast free, they saved the consumer money which is a good thing. Perhaps that's what they were working on prior to the release of the competeting app. But remember, doc is the ultimate optimist at this site. Is Apple selling it or is it part of the next update?

Numbers 1, 3, and 9 are deal-killers for me. I also understand voice dialing isn't an option, but I could be wrong there.

At the risk of sounding like the good doctor who frequents this site and talks incessantly about his $400 laptop <wink>, I've found the Palm Centro to be an absolutely fantastic phone. The media player is very good (even giving me Internet radio--no need for a satellite radio subscription), the camera is adequate, the video recording acceptable for what I use it for. I have voice dialing, cut-and-paste (can't imagine living without that) and while the web browser isn't even close to the experience one gets on the iPhone, it's more than adequate for my needs. Email works flawlessly. SMS and MMS? Check. Needless to say, syncing is perfect, and I've always liked the Palm OS for scheduling and ease of use.

Aside from that, it's cheaper, and the data plans are cheaper as well--I have everyone on a family plan with Verizscum, and unlimited texting isn't even an option on the iPhone. Again, that's an absolute deal-killer for me.

Guess there's something for everyone, but the iPhone is missing some very basic functionality that I can't imagine living without in a device of this type. As excellent as the iPhone is, the Centro is simply a better solution for me at this time.

Webguy

Note that you had to quailfy that statement with "in this thread" to make it even close to believeable.

DRWAM

It's included in the next update.

The Apple SDK rules are being use to block Apple from 3rd party competition. And in this case, competition for something Apple didn't even have on the market.

If that isn't a definitional example of Abuse of Monopoly Power, I don't know what one is.

mikegalos@msn.com said:

"Webguy

Note that you had to quailfy that statement with "in this thread" to make it even close to believeable."

I didn't "have to" qualify anything.  Nor was I trying to.  I generally like to avoid blanket statements and keep to the discussion at hand.  

Please feel free to cite an example where someone said that the iPhone "sells well so it must work well."

Although good for the consumer, that's a shame for the developer. Hard work, time and money is wasted. I would be angry if I were the developer. It would be nice to be informed of upcoming update features so that my time and money is not wasted. Apple isn't evil for it, but inconsiderate, or at least how I define it.

WebGuy

So you agree that iphone doesn't work well though it sells well?

Let's get back to the main topic: iphone doesn't work well, shall we?

DRWAM

The problem for the consumer is that Apple is locking in that only one company's product can exist in that niche and that means that nobody can offer an improved version and there's no pressure for Apple to offer a better version. And, of course, there's the fact that Podcaster was available long before iPhone 2.2.

(posted it on the wrong thread at first)

Lets see:  Carp47 brought me up, unprovoked, three posts in.  In the same post, he says nothing, NOTHING about Pauls blog post.

Pretty hypocritical to complain about something and then turn around and do it.  Paul, can you ban him please?

As for the topic at hand, yes, Paul and Mike are fighting a strawman.  A objection of their own creation.

I'd challenge the two of them to name any piece of electronics, not just a cell phone, that is 'perfect'.  

Perfection is relative.  Those ten flaws might not be flaws at all to a significant portion of those who buy the iPhone...they might not even be noticed if added to the next generation of iPhone.

>>that's a shame for the developer<<

Only a minority of developers have problems getting their apps published.

I'm not saying it's right or wrong, just that there is a lot of noise about the those who don't get their apps published.  But a casual stroll through the store reveals many, many apps that have made it through.

@webguy3000 - Don't count on mikegalos providing any examples...I think he makes things like that up as he goes. It is actually kind of fun to watch.

--tayme

Personally, I don't believe in perfection. Perfection does not exist. Its a human concept of something without flaws. Yet everything and everyone has a flaw either major or minor. The iPhone is a perfect example of why I don't believe in perfection.

If the iPhone is essentially a phone first and media device second, then how can it be considered perfect if it fails to be a good phone first? If it stinks as a phone, then its not perfect. Second, it was Steve Jobs who picked AT&T. Isn't that a judgement call to be questioned about his pick?

When I choose a mobile phone, it has to do the phone part very well. Then I look at the bells and whistles.

Trust me, you'll want that phone to work well when your car fails. You'll want it to work when you're in an accident.

Its just another piece of tech that needs to be taken back to the drawing boards.

Apple isn't going to do anything that unnecessarily restricts the flow of the cash.  Now what they consider necessary and what Mike considers necessary are two different things.  But they *built* the system, and he...comments(!) on someone elses blog.

In a nutshell, developers have every reason to develop for the platform.

>>The Wall Street Journal Reported that the iTunes app store has earned substantial revenue for Apple and third party developers.

   * Sales at the current pace of the iTunes app store would yield $360 Million a year in revenue

   * Sega sold 300,000 copies of Super Monkeyball in 20 days ($9.99 each)

   * More than 125,000 have downloaded Epocrates, including 25,000 doctors

   * Developers’ share of iPhone apps were about $21 Million.  10 Developers earned about $9 Million

>>

www.researchcast.com/alpha

App store or open market?  

>>Since its launch in July, the App Store has grown to become an indie developer's dream come true. Steve Demeter, developer of the vastly popular $5 iPhone game Trism, announced he made $250,000 in profit in just two months. His team? Himself, mainly, with a little bit of help from a friend and a contracted designer (whom he paid $500). If his profits continue at this rate, Demeter will earn nearly $2 million by July 2009.

--

What's more, Demeter initially released Trism as a free native application in the Jailbreak community -- meaning it was a game that users could play only if they hacked their iPhones. The prospects of making money were uncertain, but Demeter had a vision: He knew iPhone apps would get big once Apple released a software developer kit to allow third-party apps on the handset, and he wanted to get in on the platform early. <<

"I don't recall Paul ever using the argument "it sells well so it must work well" as the iPhone  fans do. (but, surprisingly, since they're usually the same people, don't think applies to desktops and laptops)"

I was the one that linked the iPhone sales.  I never said since it sells well it must work well.  My point was/is despite its FLAWS its doing quite well.

I dont care where NPD got those numbers.  The same place they got those numbers from sell lots of WinMO phones, like ATT stores.  Yet not one WinMO phone in the top 5.  Like I have said in the past without Exchange being the dominant email player in the corporate world, WinMO phones would not even be around.

I didn't include the link.  Here it is:

blog.wired.com/.../indie-developer.html

>>Bart Decrem, CEO of Tapulous, would agree. His company's free application Tap Tap Revenge, a music-rhythm game that utilizes the iPhone's touch screen and accelerometer, hit a milestone of 1,000,000 downloads just two weeks after its launch.

--

As for profits, Tapulous just recently began inserting advertisements in the game, and the company also has plans to release a premium version that will cost money.

Decrem was mum to disclose profit numbers, but Demeter estimates that any top iPhone app is making its company roughly $5,000 to $10,000 a day. <<

Oh. My. God.

You guys are still attacking Paul? :-)

Paul, how dare you say the iPhone is not perfect. How dare you point out flaws in the iPhone? If the Mac users here (and the one wannabe troll) say they're not important, they aren't. No one cares that you actually like the device and that you think it's one of the best devices in the market. All that matters is that you tried to point out flaws in it. No one even noticed that comment you made in the end about WM. It doesn't matter, Paul. As far as they're concerned, unless you say Apple is perfect, you're simply another M$ fanboy. Now repeat after me. The iPhone is perfect and any flaws are actually design features.

I'm guessing that this is another "paid by MIcrosoft" blog post? How about you get together a list of the bad things about Windows mobile? Can this ASP.NET blogging system handle such a large blog post?

Vista runs grat on my 3 year old Dell Dimension, my Jag runs great and my iPhone doesn't drop calls.

"Sounds like a good use for that MinWin kernel Microsoft can’t stop talking about, no?"

Yeah, talk, talk, talk. You'll have to wait for Apple to do something before Microsoft does. It's the way of the world. Apple first, Microsoft follows.

@subzero, pick any cell phone company and some people will ***.  If you live in a area where your vendor has fewer towers it will sour your experience.

3G is better technically than EVDO.  However EVDO came out first from Sprint so it had (past tense) better coverage.  3G has the ability to go to higher speeds and is used more outside of the US.

ATT is the largest cell phone company on the planet, with more customers and more money.  That is more money to build out more of its 3G network.

ATT is the best choice in the US for anyone wanting to roll out a ground breaking 3G phone.

Is ATT perfect....well I think you answered that....perfectly:)

BTW when the BlackJack 1 first came out I had many of the same problems that 3G iphone users complain of, dropped calls and poor battery life.  When your phone uses more juice to be in 3G mode and constantly search for the fewer 3G towers you calls drop and your batter drains much faster.  Back then (2006?) ATT has a simple suggestion.  Turn of 3G on the Black Jack.  Sure enough it fixed the problems.  I am not suggesting this, as internet speed will just suck, and IMHO a call with good 3G coverage is crystal clear, provided you stand still:)

But Mike has a good point about not allowing 'some' competing apps. Maybe they work better and I would be willing to pay for them. Although it's true that only a handful have been denied, they sure did get a lot of media coverage, and most seem to agree that developers should have been allowed to sell them, as Apple doesn't even charge for the competing apps, so why would they care? It just hosed the developer and excluded consumer choice. It's bad karma, even if it were just 4 or 5 apps.

Lindy

"3G is better technically than EVDO" is a totally silly statement.

EV/DO is a 3G (3rd Generation) technology, so is UMTS/HSDPA (which the iPhone uses) so are lots of other technologies. Your statement is like saying "A car is better than a Ford"

(Despite Apple thinking that their using a phrase makes it their own to define, usually as "What Apple wants it to be", 3G actually has meaning)

Now, if you meant to say, "HSDPA is better technically than EVDO" perhaps that's worth a very technical discussion (which would be necessary to defend that extremely overly broad statement) and then would need to be followed up with a discussion of carrier protocol implementation and then followed up with a discussion of infrastructure roll-out.

DRWAM

It's not just the well publicized apps that got developed, got refused and then had developers willing to risk Apple's well known legal wrath to violate their NDA to even tell their customers that their product had been refused. It's also all the apps that Apple's license agreement means can't even be started. Things like apps that run in the background (although Apple's can) or GPS apps (although, certainly, Apple has a favored partner ready to go) or alternate music players or alternate browsers or alternate development suites or alternate app markets, etc.

>>It's also all the apps that Apple's license agreement means can't even be started. Things like apps that run in the background (although Apple's can) or GPS apps (although, certainly, Apple has a favored partner ready to go) or alternate music players or alternate browsers or alternate development suites or alternate app markets, etc.<<

If you want to offer those things, go to another platform.  >Shrug<

Or, as did the developers who worked *within* the development program, use your smarts to come up with something that will pass muster.  

Ocean

Even if you want to work "*within* the development program", as you put it, you can't.

Apple has a clause in their agreement that says they have the right to block any app for any reason they choose whether they follow the published rules or not. And Apple has used that "or anything else we feel like" clause.

Podcaster obeyed every rule Apple through at them. They totally worked "*within* the development program" and there's not a thing in Apple's rules that they even came close to violating in letter or in spirit. They got banned because Apple decided that they wanted that market and to hell with anyone who might get in the way of Apple's (secret) plans. The Podcaster developer used his "smarts" and came up with an app that "passed muster". He got squashed. Repeatedly.

So, just for a change, to try to contribute something useful, instead of all the sniping......

If you have an iPhone, and you're annoyed with some of Apple's rules, jailbreak it.  I did.

You want a thing called quickpwn. Google it. Very easy to use. You want to jailbreak for two reasons, at least these were MY reasons:

1. Pdanet. Allows tethering your laptop via the iphone. Indispensable. There was, for a brief time, an app like this on the app store (Netshare) but Apple quashed it because ATT won't allow it under the terms of service. So, the bad guy is---as is so often the case--the phone company. I understand ATT is about to "allow" this----for an extra $40/month!! No thanks.

2. Backgrounder. Once you have this installed, you can put ANY app in the background by a push and hold of the one button on the iPhone. I just love plugging my iPhone into my car (direct connection to CD-changer input which I don't use with a changer), starting Pandora radio and having the equivalent of satellite radio in the car for free. There are many other music streaming apps that work in a similar way. Works well on the 3g network, I don't know how it works with EDGE. Not well, I expect.

There are other, much more gearheady reasons to jailbreak, but those are the two that made it essential for me to do it.

And, in all the criticism of Paul's post, it is only fair to note that he also said, "BTW. A site like this for Windows Mobile would be pointless since the entire OS needs to be dumped and rewritten from scratch." I don't know; never used Win Mobile, but it's nice to see something evenhanded.

>>Apple has a clause in their agreement that says they have the right to block any app for any reason they choose whether they follow the published rules or not. And Apple has used that "or anything else we feel like" clause.<<

Only for a extremely small handful of the thousands of submissions.  As I posted earlier, there's a lot of money being made in this space.  Apple has no interest in unnecessarily crimping the money or the platform.

Public service announcement:

1TB External Drive for $99 (AR)

Personally, I hate rebates.  But you might not, so there ya go.

news.cnet.com/8301-13845_3-10093552-58.html

Ocean

"Only for a extremely small handful of the thousands of submissions. "

Making it up as you go along?

Since Apple's latest SDK agreement includes a clause that developers can't say why or even if Apple has blocked their app from sale in the only legal channel there is NO way you can say that and have it mean anything. The only ones who know are the people at Apple who block apps. And they don't tell.

It may be dozens. It may be thousands.

It shouldn't be any.

Thanks Ocean, I'm looking for even more storage since I have 5 computers [one for everybody], more if you count the dusty ones, but 5 running daily.

If it were thousands, you'd have heard more about it.  :)

Nope, good old common sense tells us that it's just a handful of cases where Apple has business or strategic reasons to say no.

Oh, and the legalese for the SDK has been changed.  Theres a good question as to whether they were ever under a NDA:

>>Nearly all responses were from iPhone developers who received rejection notices prior to this week; according to these developers, their rejection notices from Apple did not mention the NDA. *Most of these rejection notices were about specific technical issues*, along the lines of “Your app cannot be published because of X and Y. Please fix X and Y and re-submit.”

--

Only one developer emailed to say that he had received a rejection notice from Apple which contained the following boilerplate at the bottom of the message:

   iPhone Application Review Team

   Apple Developer Connection

   Worldwide Developer Relations

   ********************************************

   THE INFORMATION CONTAINED IN THIS MESSAGE IS UNDER NON-DISCLOSURE

   ********************************************

However, several developers indicated that they’ve been receiving email with this line in the sig from ADC representatives at Apple for years, long before the iPhone.<<

Asterisks mine.  :)

daringfireball.net/.../app_store_rejections

What a surprise.  Apple surpasses RIM in quarterly sales, is blowing past all Windows Mobile quarterly sales combined, has the highest customer satisfaction and some reports of the highest reliability... and what do we get from Paul?  A list of complaints.  

Oh, but why should he acknowledge all the insanely amazing results when everyone else is covering that?  Why should he put the iPhone's own very real issues in context of it's competitors and how they handle things?  Why even pretend to have credibility?  

Are there problems and feature shortcomings, of course!  Is there a list of improvements I want to see, including fewer calling errors, quicker network switching and such?  You bet.  Is it the best smartphone I've ever owned is just about every sense by millions of miles?  Absolutely.

Is Ballmer, Verizon, Enderle, Palm, Waethorn and all the competitors, hacks and shills in between completely forced to eat crow by the iPhone's ludicrous and historic success?  Yep.

But go on, Paul.  Keep preaching to the choir.  It's a great way to make you feel good in the absence of any journalistic follow through or integrity.

It's your blog Paul.  You can be a partisan hack all you want.  I want the iPhone to improve and welcome the criticism, but the absolute lack of follow up is remarkable.

No sweat DrWAM.

And again Mike, Apple has no reason to crimp it's platform or the its own cut of the sales.

Thats how we know that the rejections have been relatively tiny.  That and the size of the current app store catalog.

No, I can't give you any hard numbers or a link to a site with that info.  But what you do have access to is good old common sense.

Ocean

Why do you think Apple cares about 3rd party sales? Apple has a horrible history of screwing over partners when it's in Apple's interests. And it keeps on coming.

Yeah, if there was a new app that was to the iPhone what PageMaker was to the Mac in 1985, sure, Apple would care. But there won't be since the iPhone/iPod platform doesn't need something to save Apple from bankruptcy. Anything short of another PageMaker is something they tolerate at best and more often target.

Once again, you're inventing a stawman and then fighting him...

@Ocean & team Apple,

There does come a point where Apple fans need to recognize that this site and it's Apple coverage is a blindly propagandistic joke.  From Paul's near-verbatim parroting of Microsoft's "Apple Tax" talking points, to his unqualified adoration for every component of their marketing from Mojave to Seinfeld to the supremely defensive "I'm a PC"... Paul is a Microsoft shill.... and clearly so is Mike Galos, god bless him.

Sure, Paul may criticize Microsoft's products like Windows Mobile.  But he goes so far beyond that criticism with Apple, into the realm of questioning motives and integrity.  

So dial back the participation.  Deprive Paul of the traffic and the incentive to flamebait.  Force Mike Galos to spend his obviously vast intellect on solving the world's problems in every sphere of reality from anti-trust law to intellectual property rights to family farming.

The Mac is thriving and healthy and there's nothing the Hack/Shills can do to change that.  The iPhone has utterly defied all nay-sayers and launched into pole position in it's market and there's no denying it.  Our favorite platform is doing great.  We don't really need to defend it anymore.  Especially not in the face of this kind of intellectual dishonesty.

Cheers.

Girls, stop fighting. You're ALL pretty!

Actually lotsa, many people have told me that I could probably wear a bra, but the last guy that called me a girl end up drinking fluids from a urinal :)

Yes, I was escorted out by 5 bouncers, but it was worth it! I did a good tap dance for the police outside as well. You kinda get real humble when you see handcuffs and guns.

@papola and the Team Hannity,

Good point, except that it applies more to the PC users here. Most PC users are here for news about MS products. Many Mac users are here with the sole intention of fighting. I still don't get it why you're commenting here when you don't even care for Paul's opinion about Apple's products or news about Microsoft's products. You all can fool yourself into believing this site needs you (just like many Americans have fooled themselves into believing that countries like Iraq need the US). You sound delusional. God bless you all.

"OS X, brothers!!"

:-)

"Force Mike Galos to spend his obviously vast intellect on solving the world's problems in every sphere of reality from anti-trust law to intellectual property rights to family farming."

Well, while I wait for Rahm Emanuel to call and ask me to join the White House policy team, I'll hang out. (But, if I get that call, I'm out of here)

MIke and others, one of my partners just bought a $550 Vista laptop. I set up the VPN and Exchange for him. He loves it, but he'll probably never post here. It's for traveling as his main computer at home is a laptop. Like myself, he figures that if he breaks it or loses it, he'll just buy another. Easy to do at that price.

@Lindy,

It doesn't matter how good the technology is on paper, if the phones can't pick up the network consistently, it doesn't mean jack. Too many AT&T customers here in the Dallas metro area are having a hard time getting a consistent 3G network connect. Before you chime in about towers, Cingular/AT&T had and still has a huge advantage in towers in this area. That means most Dallasites are only getting Edge here. Edge is crap. Compared to the consistent and 99.99999999% of the time I'm connected by EV-DO, I have no incentive to switch to AT&T.

I know phones vary and its up to the consumer to do their homework. However, I believe the phone should be the best part of the cell phone. The iPhone has some work to do on that part. Its a legit criticism.

John,

If you think Paul's so bad, then move on. Seriously, this is a windows centric site. We do dip into Apple. Deal with it. Nobody on here is going to change anyone's mind. Your convinced he's a shill, so be it. I think he's got plenty of cred.

Seriously, this board has come down to sillyness and hijacking way too often.

"John, If you think Paul's so bad, then move on."

He said he would, but he won't give it up.

"Your convinced he's a shill, so be it. I think he's got plenty of cred."

Yet he peddle's his Spike TV crap on here, while complaining about the advertising space.  

Seriously john, either contribute something worthwhile or give it a rest and STFU.

I think I'd rather read more of Ocean robertsjoe's's, or even losta's nonsensical blathering, or Lindy's pisspoor IT advice than your bitching and chewing about your ad host.

Pauls blog took a hard, *hard* turn from his previous posting style when he left off posting at the Internet-Nexus and came over to this site where comments could be posted.

Ok, I'm back.

Let me Control-V:

My Jag runs great, Vista runs great on my 3 year old Dell, my iPhone doesn't drop calls in the Detroit-Flint areas of MI and yes..........I'M A CONSERVATIVE.  GO NEWT!  DRILL HERE DRILL NOW!

OK...........I wanted to buy a Samsung BlackJack II, but you know I'm a die-hard Microsoft guy...but the WinMobile Samsung phone SUCKS SUCKS compared to the iPhone with built in iPod.  I want WinMobile to kick Apple's butt.  It doesn't though. Sad truth.

One last thing: liberalism is bad bad bad.

What is America today? We the people are now in the mortgage business and we the people are soon to be the automotive industry if the next bailout happens.

We're in trouble people! Enough bitching about your OS X dock is better than the Start button.

Do you people have any real clue as to what is happening in OUR economy, in OUR country?  America is on the verge of going over the cliff.  We're printing money out of thin air to save our butts!

By the way, on Craigslist I can buy for $5 a G3 Mac, 400MHz what do you think? Should I? I believe it has 32meg ram and OS 9. It's the all in one unit. :-)

Oh and I agree with John P. on the economy.

And for Mike G. SCREW the Sarbanes Oxley Act!

"I think I'd rather read more of Ocean robertsjoe's's, or even losta's nonsensical blathering, or Lindy's pisspoor IT advice than your bitching and chewing about your ad host."

I definitely wouldn't put lotsa in the same category as Ocean and robertsjoe, but to each is his own. :-)

RE: the economy, if and when stability is restored in Iraq, the US will start making billions of dollars from the rebuilding efforts. Invading Iraq had nothing to do with democracy or Al Qaeda. It was all about money. Afghanistan is a poor country and there was no way the US could make money from the rebuilding efforts there. And hence, the Iraq invasion. That's my conspiracy theory for the day.

Delmont

How would you know anything about Liberalism, we've spent the last 8 years under the most conservative administration in US history and before that had moderates or conservatives since 1968. Sorry. Any problems you see now are clearly your people's fault.

As for SOx, wouldn't it be nice if we didn't have corrupt corporate officers robbing the country blind? It's not as though SOx got put it because the GOP run Congress liked regulation, it's because their deregulation fever let nobody but foxes run the hen house and they had to do something to keep the last few chickens alive. Blame business leaders that steal. Blame conservatives who don't like to regulate "their kind of people" but don't blame those of us who would have preferred a real re-regulation.

Now, back to the usual whining about how Paul's treating Apple unfairly by implying they're not divine perfection incarnate.

"RE: the economy, if and when stability is restored in Iraq, the US will start making billions of dollars from the rebuilding efforts. Invading Iraq had nothing to do with democracy or Al Qaeda. It was all about money. Afghanistan is a poor country and there was no way the US could make money from the rebuilding efforts there. And hence, the Iraq invasion. That's my conspiracy theory for the day."

That's the current plot arc of Prison Break.

I saw this awhile back though, when Halliburton came into play well before Bush Jr. started his first term.  Daddy Bush set some events in motion that led to the "invasion" and eventual occupation for his son to control.  That happened in the early 80's when he started making friends with Arab oil tycoons.

Oil runs in the Bush family blood.  What's funny is that Canada is the largest supplier of american oil.  We have all the oil, and all the fresh water too.  It's just easier to steal oil and make money profiteering in a rebuilding plan while simultaneously destroying a country and masking it as a war in a very different civilization on the other side of the world.  That sh*t just won't fly here.  We're just too close for people not to notice it for what it was either.

"How would you know anything about Liberalism, we've spent the last 8 years under the most conservative administration in US history and before that had moderates or conservatives since 1968."

Ha.  That's rich.  Medicare Prescription drug expansion.  No Child Left Behind department of education expansion.   The patriot act (a warmed-over version of Clinton's 1996 anti-terrorism act that the REAL conservatives killed).  Sarbanes regulatory overreach (and it was) and now a massive consumer products regulatory overreach.  Guns and Butter spending and interventionism like nothing we've seen since LBJ.  Horrific inflation through out-of-control monetary policy and a complete abandonment of a strong dollar.

Please...  stop my description of this "conservative" administration before I turn into Barry Goldwater.

The Republicans deserved what they got for trashing the ideals of personal and economic liberty that used to underpin "conservatism".

Sorry, Mike, but if you're not talking about monetary policy, you're not talking about anything that matters in this economy.  The Federal Reserve and the Treasure have planted the seeds of our undoing and I believe their current chaotic "action" is doing more harm than good.  Who in their right mind would invest right now, given the completely bizarre and erratic behavior of the Treasury?  What bank is going to want to lend in this climate of government action uncertainty.

You gotta feel bad for President-Elect Obama.  The only question is whether he'll be a repeat of Nixon or Carter.  Both of those guys were left to deal with the devastation of LBJ's guns-and-butter dollar destruction.

Our only silver lining right now is that the whole world is in the tank and our US Treasuries remain alluring and secure enough to continue attracting foreign investment to fund our massive deficit.  The rest we print at the risk of hyper-inflation.

Mike, your problem is that you buy into the provably false notion that the government does anything OTHER than collude with big business.  Look at that Farm Bill.  Look at the Energy Bill.  Look at "campaign finance reform". Just look at any of these bills.  They are interest-group driven nonsense designed to prop up incumbents in business and politics alike and that's been true under both parties.   Corruption will be rampant in any system that lacks checks and balances, and our unconstitutional federal bureaucracy has none.  ZERO.

It's time for REAL change.  It's time to take their power away... starting with the power to print money out of thin air to fund their boondoggles which raising our prices on everything.

...but what the hell do I know?

And more more thing...

Market liberalization has lifted more people out of poverty in the past several decades than socialism and central planners ever did all put together.  I'll take the progress since 1968 on the economic front, even with this current downturn, any day of the week.

@mikegalos

from this thread: " If that isn't a definitional example of Abuse of Monopoly Power, I don't know what one is"

from a previous thread: "Being an iPhone developer is a sucker bet. Luckily, there are lots of other platforms out there...."

Copy/Paste has to appear at some point. But I see why it hasn't. It has to be just right, as it can't really be changed afterwards. Besides, when they do it, it will probably be used by everyone else in the same way so this doesn't just apply to iPhone.

And "9. Video recording"...? Might as well scratch that and replace with "9. Shaving machine."

'Your statement is like saying "A car is better than a Ford"'

Heh, I might say just that :)

"Good point, except that it applies more to the PC users here. Most PC users are here for news about MS products. Many Mac users are here with the sole intention of fighting. I still don't get it why you're commenting here when you don't even care for Paul's opinion about Apple's products or news about Microsoft's products."

And why are you here? Because on this on this thread you're the one who started it. Anyway, even you're not saying *most* Mac users are here to fight.

It is a little suspect that many recent net news articles are writitng impressive or good things about the iPhone yesterday...then this post pops up. I'm just saying....

"We have all ...the fresh water too. "

I know a few people in Michigan that would disagree with you.

Could the iPhone be improved sure. Nothing is prefect.

However those who seem to imply that Apple is going to be going away or is in for an @ss kicking are deluding themselves. Apple is on the verge of printing money. Due to SOx the are deferring revenue, basically spreading the sales over 24 months.  In June of 2009 the first gen phones revenues will be fully realized, that means in Q4 Apple will be fully reaping the harvest, from then on they are basically printing money.

apple20.blogs.fortune.cnn.com/.../the-day-apple-released-its-iphone-revenue-bomb

Keep reading it until it sinks in, Wall Street has been missing this for nearly 1 1/2 years.

Also the other thing that get missed is that Apple has been in this space in for less then 2 years, the fact they have come this far is nothing short of astonishing.

Piss poor advice from Liddy? He's dead on. He is also correct about ATT. Most popular phone= larger network, more revenue, more money for acquisitions, more money to expand a network, it becomes self-sustaining.

On to Verizon: They are iin a losing proposition, they may have the best coverage in the US, the rest of the world is GSM... The world spoke and they are on the outside looking in. I'm thinking that Verzion might be kicking themselves now, they are basically Dell now, Dell had 1 and only 1 advantage in computers: Japanese "just in time manufacturing" applied to the computer industry. It wasn't anything new or revolutionary, it was just teh first time it was done successfully in the computer realm.  Now everyone does it and look where they are now: Verizon by way of example is the same: they have a fast network. Their phones suck, their billing is a nightmare, their excessive penny gouging is ridiculous.

Also its ironic that many are looking at this is in a purely US centric light: The world cell-phone market dwarfs every Verizon subscriber several times over. Apple is selling the iPhone in India which now has what 1.2 billion people? Verizon's subscriber base is 60 million giver or take. Paul sure loves to trumpet world market share when it suits him. Apple is aiming globally, and Verizon is a big fish in a single pond, apple is looking at ponds the world over.

Do I want the iPhone on the fastest network available, yep. Is Apple concerned at all about Verizon now? I'm guessing not.  Sounds like the CEO of Verizon at the time will be remembered as another *** Rowe on not signing the Beatles. Apple could make a CDMA phone for the Verizon network, but why? Who was the ones who said "No thanks"?

So to close out: can Apple improve the phone? Sure. I think they will too, its only matter of time and with the revenue that is building ist going to be likely...

Hrmmmm That should be *** Rowe, not sure what happened there.

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