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IE8: What’s After Beta 2

I guess they took my strident feedback about Beta 2 seriously: IE 8 pretty much breaks the Web at this point. But as Dean Hachamovitch, the General Manager of Internet Explorer notes, there’s still work to be done before Microsoft can release its next browser:

Since the release of Beta 2, the team has been absorbed in the data we get from real people about the product. We have combed through instrumentation of over 20 million IE sessions and hundreds of hours of usability lab sessions. Together with IE MVPs, we have scrutinized thousands of threads from user forums and examined the issues that people are raising (not to mention all the times users opt to “Report a Webpage Problem…”). We have also spent hundreds of hours listening and answering questions in meetings with partners and other important organizations. We simply could not deliver IE8 the way our customers and developers want us to without all this information. We also received a lot of feedback about how we transitioned from the IE7 beta releases to the IE7 final release, and as a result, we want to be clear about the plan for IE8.

We will release one more public update of IE8 in the first quarter of 2009, and then follow that up with the final release. Our next public release of IE (typically called a “release candidate”) indicates the end of the beta period. We want the technical community of people and organizations interested in web browsers to take this update as a strong signal that IE8 is effectively complete and done. They should expect the final product to behave as this update does. We want them to test their sites and services with IE8, make any changes they feel are necessary for the best possible customer experience using IE8, and report any critical issues (e.g., issues impacting robustness, security, backwards compatibility, or completeness with respect to planned standards work). Our plan is to deliver the final product after listening for feedback about critical issues.

We will be very selective about what changes we make between the next update and final release. We will act on the most critical issues. We will be super clear about product changes we make between the update and the final release.

The call to action now for the technical community is to download beta 2 (if you haven’t already) and let us know about your experience. Next, please prepare for final testing with public update so you can let us know – quickly, loudly, and clearly – if you find absolutely critical issues with it before the release of the final product.

Some general notes about IE 8 Beta 2 and things that need to be fixed before Microsoft signs off on this release:

1. As noted previously, it’s hugely incompatible with the Web in ways that browsers like Mozilla Firefox, Google Chrome, and Apple Safari are not. This is a first for IE, of course, and I’m sure they’ll fix that.

2. IE 8 Beta 2 performance is horrible. One thing I do regularly is open a new browser window and then tap ALT + D as soon as it appears so I can type an address in and go. This works fine in every other browser. But try it in IE 8. The address bar loses focus, it starts loading a page and wipes out what you’re typing, and otherwise conspires to make sure its not doing what you want. This browser is too slow.

3. While I think it’s nice that you can now optionally move the Refresh and Stop buttons to their proper place next to Back and Forward, the home button is still stuck in the ill-conceived Command Bar. How about just getting rid of that and putting some of those buttons in the same row as Back and Forward and turning most of the other ones off by default? The window is just too busy and non-standard looking. Controls are all over the place. This is something Chrome does well. It’s far less busy than IE.

Comments

 

Master3 said:

I think BOTH Chrome and IE8 have terrible menu bars.

IE has Forward and Backward, address bar, refresh, stop, search bar. The refresh, and stop should be next to the forward and back arrows. And what is with all of these other menu options located on the right side of the browser like the Home button and the printer icon?

Chrome has Forward, Back, Reload, address bar, and a page button and a wrench button, and both just has stuff tossed under each that have nothing to do with the icons. The wrench should be for configuration, not for me to make a new tab, and Copy or Paste under the page icon makes no sense. So what if it's "uncluttered" if I have to keep guessing on which to click on in order to get to a function that's could be easily be placed under  other icons.

And what the heck is with Chrome's spell-check? Half of the time it works, and other times it offers no spelling suggestions even though it says your word is wrong!

<Hugs Firefox> Even though its a resource hog and wish it would go the way of Netscape!

November 20, 2008 1:48 PM
 

rjohn05 said:

I really do not like IE. I try to use it as little as possible. One of Microsoft's worse products in my opinion.

November 20, 2008 1:51 PM
 

WebGuy3000 said:

I think all browser toolbars (and those of other applications, for that matter) should be customizable, so you can put things wherever the heck you want.  That sort of solves the problem right there.

November 20, 2008 1:56 PM
 

nowimnothing said:

I'd like the see the research done on the usability of software involving the location of the refresh/stop/home buttons in various browsers (and other software for that matter - Windows Explorer in Vista does a good Go/Refresh/Stop combination that works well for me).

Personally i much prefer the refresh/stop on the right of the address bar, though I can't figure out why. It just seems to make some intuitive sense to me.

I am not sure when the last time is that i hit the home button, so I guess i wouldn't mind seeing that go away completely. In my copies of IE7, its the only button left visible on that command bar thing, and only because there has to be one... I use the rest of them even less frequently.

I really really don't care about the buttons though. People will get used to their placement. The speed and compatibility problems are much bigger fish Microsoft needs to fry.

November 20, 2008 2:12 PM
 

lotsamystuff said:

"One of Microsoft's worse products in my opinion."

Well, aside from Windows.

November 20, 2008 2:27 PM
 

DRWAM said:

Dang, the update to IE &was tough enough as the active X app/addon or control [whatever] for our Teleradiology only works with IE. In fact, we still sometimes get a warning that it has only been tested as high as IE 5.5 !!!!! However, it kinda strange that the other guys have so much difficulty and I have very little problem. I'm still fond of IE 6 on my XP box, although the UI of IE7 on my $400 Vista laptop [:)] looks nice. The best strategy would be to buy a Vista box before the update/release of IE 8, or buy a Vista install disc now and a Mac later. I just cringe at the though of helping 27 people with Bootcamp. not that it's hard, it's that it will be time consuming for the install and 'support' after.

November 20, 2008 3:29 PM
 

screechi0784 said:

Well I've used the beta 1 and the beta 2 of IE 8. And I can't say which was worse. I've downloaded beta 2 and uninstalled it after a couple of hours of using it. I think the interface is too slow.It just didn't work properly and the rendering of some of my website were very bad. I'm using windows 7 and every time I open a new tab in IE8 beta 2 it takes about 3 second to open it. I mean come on MS can't you do a little bit better of a job. Look at Firefox how stable there releases are, even Chrome. I hope the final version could make me change my mind, but for what I've seen in the beta I'm not using IE 8 for now.

November 20, 2008 7:29 PM
 

subzerohitman721 said:

Microsoft desperately had to do another beta for IE 8. The stability, performance, and interface are just not there yet. I have to agree with most of the sentiment in here about IE 8. Speed, performance, compatability, rendering, and java are the big fixes needed.

I personally believe they need to restart I.E. 8 like they did with Vista. Refresh the code, build it back up, and gets something that smokes the competition. I.E 7 is holding for now, so take more time and get this one right. If that means a Service Pack for IE 7 to keep things running that would be fine. I just want I.E. 8 done right.

November 20, 2008 11:48 PM
 

Mum said:

"As noted previously, it’s hugely incompatible with the Web in ways that browsers like Mozilla Firefox, Google Chrome, and Apple Safari are not. This is a first for IE, of course, and I’m sure they’ll fix that."

All versions of IE are notoriously incompatible with the web and the fact is that professionals develop for other browsers first and then fix and hack to make it work on IE.

November 21, 2008 1:08 AM
 

mikegalos@msn.com said:

"the fact is that professionals develop for other browsers first and then fix and hack to make it work on IE"

The fact is that professionals develop first for the browsers their target audience uses most and then hack to make it work on other browses if needed. Generally, when professionals code, it isn't needed.

November 21, 2008 1:33 AM
 

robertsjoe said:

That is true. Most developers get stuff working on FF then fix for IE's problems.

November 21, 2008 3:59 AM
 

lotsamystuff said:

"Generally, when professionals code, it isn't needed."

Whaaaa?

Lucy, you got some 'splainin to do. I have no idea what that sentence means.

November 21, 2008 6:36 AM
 

Delmont said:

I just want IE8 to work 100% with Live Mesh. Right now it does not and I have been in contact with the Mesh Tech. Group.  Till IE8 works 100% with Live Mesh I have to stay with IE7.

And when will Adobe create a frick'en version of Flash that doesn't crash IE??????????

November 21, 2008 8:14 AM
 

WebGuy3000 said:

mikegalos@msn.com said:

"The fact is that professionals develop first for the browsers their target audience uses most and then hack to make it work on other browses if needed. Generally, when professionals code, it isn't needed."

I couldn't disagree more. Good web developers do not develop to a browser or browsers. They write good structural html, css and javascript and *test* on a variety of browsers.  And then hack to make it work on IE.

At least that's what I do.

November 21, 2008 10:08 AM
 

mikegalos@msn.com said:

WebGuy

While I'm sure you sincerely disagree and think it's best to code to a theoretical design first and then see if it works in practice, that's not much use outside of a classroom where most of us actually write pages designed to meet the audience's needs rather than a theoretical "ideal" model and are more concerned with the product actually shipping rather than being ideologically pure.

November 21, 2008 10:16 AM
 

WebGuy3000 said:

@mikegalos@msn.com

Well, once again, you're putting words in my mouth.  I didn't say (or even imply) anything about ideals or theoretical designs or ideology.  What I said is that I write good structural html, css and javascript and *test* on a variety of browsers

I am not some loopy standards nazi, nor am I some ivory tower theorist. I'm just a guy trying to build and maintain web sites in the real world.

I apologize if my experience does not align with your agenda.

November 21, 2008 10:40 AM
 

Delmont said:

Hey, I'm looking for all the nuts shouting that IE8 should be back ported to Win2K.

Come on! Where are all the crazies demanding current software to run on 10 year old crap!  How come I can't run on Aero in Win2K?  I don't get it!  Gesh Microsoft!

infact, why isn't Aero back ported to NT for crying out loud! Now, there is was a nice basic O/S...all it needs is a little glass to class it up for 2009!  I bet Microsoft could put glass into SP7 for NT!

November 21, 2008 11:51 AM
 

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November 28, 2008 10:57 PM
 

ie 8 beta | AMD.com said:

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November 29, 2008 6:12 PM
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