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Apple forced to drop iPhone ad in the UK

So I got a bunch of email about this this morning, and it’s certainly noteworthy. I’m an iPhone user and I have to say, I really love the device despite some obvious flaws, but it’s also about a million times better than the competition, so it’s unclear what my problem is. Anyway, in usual Apple fashion, the company has exaggerated its product’s capabilities. But this time, finally, someone called them on it.

An Apple iPhone advert has been banned by the advertising standards watchdog for exaggerating the phone's speed.

The advert boasted the new 3G model was "really fast" and showed it loading internet pages in under a second.

The Advertising Standards Authority (ASA) upheld complaints by 17 people who said the TV advert had misled them as to its speed.

Apple UK said it was comparing the 3G model with its 2G predecessor and its claims were "relative not absolute".

The advert repeatedly stated that the phone was "really fast" and showed news pages and the Google maps service taking just fractions of a second to appear.

Text on the screen said: "Network performance will vary by location."

After upholding the viewers' complaints, the ASA said the advert must not appear again in the same form.

It said the advert was likely to lead viewers to believe that the device actually operated at or near to the speeds shown in the advert.

The watchdog concluded: "Because we understood that it did not, we concluded that the ad was likely to mislead."

Bravo.

And before any of you Apple noobs complains, I’ll just point out this video, which, in my own extensive experience, is exactly what using an iPhone is really like. And is thus why this ad is truly deceptive.

Thanks to everyone who wrote in about this.

Comments

 

gorath said:

At first, I thoguht the ads were obviously speeded up, to show all the featuers in a quick time, and thought most people would think the same.

However, a good friend of mine stated recently that he was going to buy an iphone because the add showed it as being much much faster than his current phone (a nokia N95, IIRC) so, some people at least do get the wrong impression.

November 26, 2008 8:54 AM
 

shark47 said:

"Apple UK said it was comparing the 3G model with its 2G predecessor and its claims were "relative not absolute". "

That's meaningless. "Relative not absolute"?? Of course it's relative. You're comparing it to something else and saying it's 2 times faster.  

November 26, 2008 9:20 AM
 

weedmonk said:

There no RDF across the pond. Actually, it's mostly an US bicoastal thing.

November 26, 2008 9:24 AM
 

shark47 said:

"There no RDF across the pond. Actually, it's mostly an US bicoastal thing."

Another instance of UK doing it all wrong. It's like a bizarro world over there.

Gorath, that was a lame attempt at a joke, based on your driving on the "wrong" side of the road. :)

November 26, 2008 9:27 AM
 

Lindy said:

I await the sh@t storm this thread will create.  I dont own a iPhone, iTouch yes and even on WiFi its not that fast.

Let the blood bath commence!!!!!  

November 26, 2008 9:29 AM
 

Waethorn said:

"That's meaningless. "Relative not absolute"?? Of course it's relative. You're comparing it to something else and saying it's 2 times faster."

2 times faster to what?  Did the UK even have the original iPhwn?

November 26, 2008 9:34 AM
 

Lindy said:

The question would be what was the network speed of the network for the original iPhone in the UK?

In the US you went from EDGE 128k up/down (about 90k really) to 3G and which I have tested on my old BlackJack at 1meg down and 300 up. So in the US it would easily be double the speed.  Still its not as fast as the ad shows.

Honestly I dont think it is all network speed, I think the iPhone/iTouch cant get the data and drive Safari that fast.  Its not that fast on WiFi which pulls my full DSL speed of 6meg down.

November 26, 2008 9:42 AM
 

shark47 said:

I just find it funny that some people believe everything that's shown in ads. But, I guess the ad was specifically about speed, so, I don't know.

November 26, 2008 9:51 AM
 

subzerohitman721 said:

Its about time that somebody held Apple's feet to the fire about their deceptive ads.  What Lindy calls it a bloodbath, I call it accountability. The court of public opinion is now in session!  

Proof yet again for the umteenth time that Apple's ads are clearly deceptive. I own an iPod and I love the quality. The device clearly sells itself. So why does Apple have to lie to sell their stuff? There isn't really any need and just makes the company look like Microsoft.

At least with Microsoft, I know their a bunch of greedy bastards. They make no apologies for it. At least the stuff is affordable and you don't need a loan for it.

Apple tries to paint itself above the fray but its really just the same thing. Except it keeps trying to sell you the deception, the glitz, and the glamour. Much like a Hollywood agent to the stars, who keeps trying to blow smoke up your behind.

Nobody is disputing that Apple makes great products. The computers, the iPods, the Touch, and the iPhone are really really good products. I plan on making more iPod purchases in the future or maybe when the Touch gets more storage capacity. Just quit the deceptive advertising practices and lower the prices. Apple would win real big, as in taking out Microsoft big.

Every time they do this, it opens the door for Microsoft to come back in. Thats why the status quo between Microsoft and Apple remains.

November 26, 2008 9:54 AM
 

Ocean said:

>>Apple's ads are clearly deceptive<<

But once the people are in the store looking at the device...once they buy the device...

>>J.D. Power and Associates has conducted research in customer satisfaction of the most popular Smartphone models. Apple Inc. has ranked highest among the smartphone makers...<<

www.afterdawn.com/.../15921.cfm

>>Apple ranked first in the overall customer satisfaction among business wireless smartphone users, the most recent J.D. Power and Associates’ Business Wireless Smartphone Customer Satisfaction Study revealed. This places Apple over rivals such as BlackBerry-maker RIM, or Palm, receiving in four out of five categories the highest number of points compared to other companies.<<

www.efluxmedia.com/news_Apples_iPhone_Overruns_BlackBerry_In_Consumer_Satisfaction_28373.html

I'd say that THE ADS DO NOT MATTER.  The users response to the device does.

November 26, 2008 10:00 AM
 

wdowell said:

Finally, something to be proud of being british for!

This was totally misleading, and - as an iPhone 3G user myself - it's no where near that fast (even with the firmware updates) - and it's not all network related as the advert suggested with the sub-text. it's just the damn sluggish processor!

Yes, I still love my iphone, and it's better than the rest in many ways, but I do think adverts should show products honestly. and that goes for all of them - from cosmetics to toothpaste, from adsl offers to washing-mashine products getting out staines.

November 26, 2008 10:03 AM
 

nutts said:

And this is relevant to "SuperSite for WIndows" because...?

November 26, 2008 10:13 AM
 

mikegalos@msn.com said:

wdowell

The problem with the network text in the ad is that it implies that the results show DO occur under certain network conditions. If anything, the disclaimer makes it even more deceptive by even making people think their real-world results not matching the demonstrated speed are due to local network conditions and not Apple's lying and so will think that it will improve as their carrier upgrades or when they're in a different location.

November 26, 2008 10:13 AM
 

kalewallace said:

@subzero

Yeah, it's great that someone actually call out Apple for their usually-ridiculous ads, but let's be honest.  If we actually called out everyone who ran a deceptive ad, we would have under a dozen running.  Advertising is advertising.

November 26, 2008 10:14 AM
 

Ocean said:

THE ADS DO NOT MATTER.

November 26, 2008 10:20 AM
 

mikegalos@msn.com said:

Yep, we're seeing the usual defenses of the indefensible:

Apple defense 1: iPhone is perfect so it's OK to lie because people will be happy they were lied to (the conquistador "It's OK if will kill them since they'll die Christian" defense)

Apple defense 2: MicrosoftIsEvilMicrosoftIsEvilMicrosoftIsEvilMicrosoftIsEvil (the change the conversation to anybody else defense)

Apple defense 3: You're being mean, everybody does it. Stop picking on me. (the 3rd grader defense)

November 26, 2008 10:20 AM
 

tayme said:

@nutts - It is relevant to this site and audience because Paul writes about Windows AND the other things that Windows users use. My guess is that a large percentage of iPhone users are also Windows users. If you haven't learned that yet, then you haven't been reading long.

@Waethorn - No reason to drop down to the 3rd grader level that mikegalos talks about above by using the no-longer funny iPhwn tag that you like to try to hang on an obviously good selling and usable, but still needing work, device.

--tayme

November 26, 2008 10:28 AM
 

Ocean said:

>iPhone is perfect <

I missed this comment.  What time was it made?

>MicrosoftIsEvilMicrosoftIsEvilMicrosoftIsEvilMicrosoftIsEvil<

Ditto.  Same request.

November 26, 2008 10:29 AM
 

tayme said:

@mikegalos - Is this more indefensible(your term) than Microsoft telling people that thye are using the next version of the Windows OS called Mojave, when in fact they are using Vista? It is still deception, right? Don't go back to the comparison of a gunpoint robbery being the same as an honest mistake by a cashier on this one, either...that is just plain stupid.

--tayme

November 26, 2008 10:30 AM
 

mikegalos@msn.com said:

Maybe the Mac fans here could just save us all a lot of trouble and just enter in:

Excuse 1

or

Excuse 1 with a little Excuse 2 thrown in

or

I'd like to use all 3 excuses, thanks.

November 26, 2008 10:36 AM
 

Ocean said:

Mike is trolling now.

November 26, 2008 10:47 AM
 

mikegalos@msn.com said:

I'm sorry, I really should have posted in UK English as well since this was about UK adverts...

Yep, we're seeing the usual defences of the indefensible:

Apple defence 1: iPhone is perfect so it's OK to lie because people will be happy they were lied to (the conquistador "It's OK if will kill them since they'll die Christian" defence)

Apple defence 2: MicrosoftIsEvilMicrosoftIsEvilMicrosoftIsEvilMicrosoftIsEvil (the change the conversation to anybody else defence)

Apple defence 3: You're being mean, everybody does it. Stop picking on me. (the Year 3 student’s defence)

November 26, 2008 10:48 AM
 

tayme said:

@mikegalos - Those are the same 3 excuses that you and other rebid Microsoft fans have used in the past...including during the Mojave Experiment, which I believe was a fine and effective bit of advertising by Microsoft.

--tayme

November 26, 2008 10:51 AM
 

mikegalos@msn.com said:

To the UK readers, my apologies.

Apple defence 2, which has been the most popular so far, was left if a US/UK hybrid form in the update as I carelessly forgot that in the UK, corporate names are plural. Please substitute the following:

Apple defence 2: MicrosoftAreEvilMicrosoftAreEvilMicrosoftAreEvilMicrosoftAreEvil (the change the conversation to anybody else defence)

November 26, 2008 11:05 AM
 

tayme said:

For what its worth - I am glad to see this and any deceptive advertising removed from the airwaves. A company should be able to sell a product on its merits, not lies. If you have been reading long, you'll realize that I also feel the same about the "Switcher" series of ads (I'm a Mac)...Apple should sell OS X on its own merits, not any percieved flaws in Vista.

--tayme

November 26, 2008 11:05 AM
 

tayme said:

Typo in my earlier post...rebid = rabid.

--tayme

November 26, 2008 11:06 AM
 

GabeR said:

>>Yes, I still love my iphone, and it's better than the rest in many ways, but I do think adverts should show products honestly. and that goes for all of them - from cosmetics to toothpaste, from adsl offers to washing-mashine products getting out staines.<<

But ads almost never tell the truth. In advertising, driving a car turns you into James Bond or Michael Shumacher, a perfume makes you irresistible to the opposite sex, a skin cream makes you twenty years younger, a cleaning product cleans the worst stains without any effort at all, a new Windows version makes the Wow start now, cigarettes (when advertising them was allowed) would transport you to Marlboro country, a chewing gum will freeze the world around you, Santa Claus exists and drinks Coca Cola etc.

November 26, 2008 11:11 AM
 

tayme said:

@mikegalos - Can you point us to the posts that you feel are using examples of the 3 defences that you describe above. I think that I found 1 questionable example of number 1...except that the word perfect was never used.

--tayme

November 26, 2008 11:12 AM
 

Ocean said:

>>A company should be able to sell a product on its merits<<

Look at those JD Power rankings.

November 26, 2008 11:18 AM
 

tayme said:

@GabeR - What???? You doubt Santa Clause?!?!? How dare you!!!

;-)

--tayme

November 26, 2008 11:20 AM
 

Ocean said:

>>ads almost never tell the truth. In advertising, driving a car turns you into James Bond or Michael Shumacher, a perfume makes you irresistible to the opposite sex, a skin cream makes you twenty years younger, a cleaning product cleans the worst stains without any effort at all, a new Windows version makes the Wow start now, cigarettes (when advertising them was allowed) would transport you to Marlboro country, a chewing gum will freeze the world around you, Santa Claus exists and drinks Coca Cola etc.<<

This is a great post.

November 26, 2008 11:23 AM
 

Apple forced to drop iPhone ad in the UK - SuperSite Blog said:

Pingback from  Apple forced to drop iPhone ad in the UK - SuperSite Blog

November 26, 2008 11:30 AM
 

shark47 said:

I don't have any problems with the iPhone ads. Lot of ads lie. Some commentators had indicated that the original ads didn't have the disclaimer. At least, they've fixed that. I do have a problem with the company's Mac ads, though.

"Buy our product because our rivals spend too much money on advertising."

Kevin Trudeau, if anyone has stayed awake late enough to watch those infomercials on TV, used the exact same tactic to turn his book on natural cures into a national bestseller.

November 26, 2008 11:37 AM
 

Mum said:

Of course the ad in question is deceptive when you really look at it. I wish a lot more companies got called for it, because everyone actually does it to some extent. If you're involved in making ads you know this. Not that I had a job if they didn't!

Mike's probably used all the excuses he lists many times in the past himself, which is hilarious.

November 26, 2008 11:37 AM
 

Ocean said:

>>I do have a problem with the company's Mac ads<<

OT alert!  OT alert!

(kidding, kidding)

November 26, 2008 11:43 AM
 

shark47 said:

"@mikegalos - Can you point us to the posts that you feel are using examples of the 3 defences that you describe above. I think that I found 1 questionable example of number 1...except that the word perfect was never used."

I agree. I haven't seen much on this thread, although I've seen it in the past. Of course, robertsjoe is not here yet.

November 26, 2008 11:45 AM
 

GabeR said:

>>@GabeR - What???? You doubt Santa Clause?!?!? How dare you!!!<<

Oops, I just remembered Christmas is coming up! Oh well, no presents for me this year...

November 26, 2008 11:47 AM
 

Lindy said:

@Subzero "bloodbath" as in this thread will turn into a bloodbath.  Mike woke up and the smack talk started.  Today I will just watch as I dont have an iPhone.

November 26, 2008 11:51 AM
 

timiteh said:

I can't believe that people keep getting trapped that easily  by ads or by deceptive marketing tactics.

Moreover it is quite dispointing from Apple to need deceptive ads to sell products which would be successful enough just because of the name.

This is one of the reasons,along with arrogance and elitism, why i dislike that much and have so little respect for that company.

It is almost forgivable for a company to need deceptive marketing tactics,though they shouldn't be efficient if people didn't have such a sheep like attitude nowadays, to sell products which would sell bad otherwises but it is in unforgivable for a company like Apple,and Microsoft to a lesser extent, to use such tactics as they obviously don't need them.

November 26, 2008 12:03 PM
 

gorath said:

Ads in the UK are governed by a pretty strict set of rules. Misleading advertising is not allowed, and neither are false claims.

What is allowed is humour.

However, comparing the "wrigleys ice" add to this is kinda dumb.

The wrigley's add makes no claim that the air will actually turn to ice.

The over-the top lynx ads fit in with humour. - No-one of sound mind will believe that a can of deodourant will make an entire island of women come running to you.

However, where the iPhone add fell is that it really was trying to make people who currently owned phones (and who were not tech-savvy enough to realise it was a mock-up representation) think "damn, that thing's faster than my current phone".

November 26, 2008 12:38 PM
 

gorath said:

@shark:

"Another instance of UK doing it all wrong. It's like a bizarro world over there.

Gorath, that was a lame attempt at a joke, based on your driving on the "wrong" side of the road. :)"

Yeah, so what if we drive on the wrong side of the road, at  least our economy is.... Oh. Hang on.

But all our politicians are... Hmm, ok, maybe not.

Erm, I know, at lest the cost of living here is..... Dammit.

Ah, well, our fuel costs are, er, well... bugger.

I know. Our dental care system is way.... no, that won't do either.

Hmm, Ok, you win. ;p

November 26, 2008 12:44 PM
 

WebGuy3000 said:

gorath - But the chicks all dig an English accent.  You got that going for you.

November 26, 2008 12:54 PM
 

mikegalos@msn.com said:

gorath

And you at least showed a sense of humo(u)r about it with "Yes, Minister" and "Yes, Prime Minister"

Mike

(Who has two "British" cars, one made in England by a Malaysian owned company and one made in England by a German owned company) :-)

November 26, 2008 1:00 PM
 

gorath said:

"gorath - But the chicks all dig an English accent.  You got that going for you."

nope. I haven't even got that!

Then only chicks I've met who dig English accents have been american. and most (not all) american women I've met speak in an accent that annoys the hell outta me.

Now do you see how bad we have it! lol.

November 26, 2008 1:00 PM
 

chuckb84 said:

Yes, yes, the iPhone, like Democracy, is just awful, except when you compare it to all the others possibilities.

Oh, and MIke, MIcrosoft IS evil, to the very depths of its corporate soul, if it had one. I suspect we'll get a tiny view of that when Balmer is deposed....an event I am looking forward to. Not that this has a thing to do with the iPhone, but since you brought it up....

Oh, in the non-bizarro world, there's this about the Blackberry storm. Not an "iPhone killer" after all.....

www.nytimes.com/.../27pogue.html

November 26, 2008 1:04 PM
 

shark47 said:

gorath, you've got James Bond. :p

"And you at least showed a sense of humo(u)r about it with "Yes, Minister" and "Yes, Prime Minister""

Ahh, yes. Great shows. I watched all the episodes of Yes, Prime Minister on Netflix.

November 26, 2008 1:07 PM
 

DRWAM said:

I am not surprised at this. While the Get a Mac ads are satire/parodies, the iPhone ad is deceptive. I think the biggest reason why is that you wll see on most other ads where demo's are shown, that they have a disclaimer stating something like simulated image or video, including virtualized image of phone for some of those verizon ones. While they too are disceptive as you still get the idea that the video is as fast or trouble free, the ads throw in the disclaimer. The iPhone ad is a demo of the iPhone's abilites, and is sped up to show many in the ad time slot, but really does not give a decent disclaimer. Verdict = Guilty. My phone works well and does the jobs I need [Thanks to some of you including Mike, Wae, Dipsh, John, Paul (but not George or Ringo)]....Thanks.

OT, Thanks for the component info Wae, I will be asking more when I'm ready to build.

Doc.

November 26, 2008 1:51 PM
 

iPhone Ad Gets Shut Down For Being Misleading : tinyComb said:

Pingback from  iPhone Ad Gets Shut Down For Being Misleading : tinyComb

November 26, 2008 2:15 PM
 

Dipsh t Admin said:

Chuck, it's funny you call the "non-bizarro world" and bring up Pogue as being a part of that.  That is, well, bizarre.  Pogue and Mossy have given up all credibility at reviewing non-Apple products a long time ago.

November 26, 2008 2:17 PM
 

Waethorn said:

"No reason to drop down to the 3rd grader level that mikegalos talks about above by using the no-longer funny iPhwn tag that you like to try to hang on an obviously good selling and usable, but still needing work, device."

Tayme, you are not the epitomy of "fair and balanced" yourself.  Quit being so high and mighty.

Besides, you're just jealous you didn't come up with it sooner.  It's at least funnier than "WinJihadist".

November 26, 2008 2:37 PM
 

mikegalos@msn.com said:

Dipsh

"Pogue and Mossy have given up all credibility at reviewing non-Apple products a long time ago."

That's not really quite fair, they've also given up all credibility at reviewing Apple products a long time ago, too.

November 26, 2008 2:43 PM
 

tayme said:

@Waethorn - Much like Paul, I have never claimed to be "fair and balanced", but I do have the ability to give credit where credit is due. I use and support a variety of operating systems on a daily basis...so single sightedness is not something that I think is funny or even remotely accurate.

BTW, it was lotsamystuff that coined WinJihadist, I believe...I try to avoid grouping people based on what OS they use or support. Extremists on both sides irk me...

--tayme

November 26, 2008 2:45 PM
 

tayme said:

@Dip - Especially Pogue. I think that he mentioned the iPhone more than the Storm in his "review".

--tayme

November 26, 2008 2:46 PM
 

Ocean said:

Pogue and Mossberg are the choice of millions...otherwise they'd lose their audience and their bosses would set them out on the street.

November 26, 2008 2:51 PM
 

Ocean said:

>>I think that he mentioned the iPhone more than the Storm in his "review".<<

If it's supposed to be a iPhone killer, then thats the standard it will be measured by.

November 26, 2008 2:51 PM
 

chuckb84 said:

"Chuck, it's funny you call the "non-bizarro world" and bring up Pogue as being a part of that.  That is, well, bizarre.  Pogue and Mossy have given up all credibility at reviewing non-Apple products a long time ago."

Like it or not, the New York Times and the Wall Street Journal have a certain credibility in most of the world! Sorry to say, but compared to this D-list blog, that is just the truth.

Aside from the usual "attack the messenger", do any of you deep thinkers have a REBUTTAL? Pogue has used both, he checked with many others about the Storm and came to conclusions. If you've used both and care to retort; I've only used the iPhone so I'll listen respectfully to anyone with experience with both gadgets.

Feel free to do a point-by-point comparison, once you can stop the navel gazing on the "big story" about the Apple iPhone ad in the UK.

November 26, 2008 3:02 PM
 

shark47 said:

"That's not really quite fair, they've also given up all credibility at reviewing Apple products a long time ago, too."

Oh, come on. Goatberg and Pogue are probably the least biased Mac fanatics out there.

November 26, 2008 3:06 PM
 

gorath said:

Nah, much better than "yes prime minister" is Red Dwarf, or Monty python, or Fawlty Towers.

Or scrapheap challenge!

November 26, 2008 3:08 PM
 

tayme said:

@chuckb84 - "Like it or not, the New York Times and the Wall Street Journal have a certain credibility in most of the world!"

Maybe when it comes to world and financial news. When it comes to the technology reporting, they lack credibility and are known to be very inaccurate.

--tayme

November 26, 2008 3:08 PM
 

Ocean said:

>>Maybe when it comes to world and financial news. When it comes to the technology reporting, they lack credibility and are known to be very inaccurate.<<

Only among the tech elite.  And the tech elite look down their noses at everyone...  :)

November 26, 2008 3:15 PM
 

Waethorn said:

"Then only chicks I've met who dig English accents have been american. and most (not all) american women I've met speak in an accent that annoys the hell outta me."

At least it's not a Manchester accent....

or is it?  :P

November 26, 2008 3:20 PM
 

Waethorn said:

@gorath:

I liked Harry Enfield.

November 26, 2008 3:23 PM
 

Dipsh t Admin said:

The Wall Street Journal certainly has tons of credibility, that is undeniable.  The New York Times?  Not as much.  I'd use the NYT as a bird cage lining or to leave on the kitchen floor for a dog I was leaving alone for a while.  Certainly not to read.

Chuck, we can shoot the messenger when that said messenger is in the tank or wrong.  You wouldn't ask Amy Winehouse about health issues, and you don't ask Pogue or Mossgerg about non-Apple issues.  Simple as that.  Even though the product is squarely aimed at the iPhone, RIM or Verizon have not mentioned as much.  Mentioning the iPhone ad-nausea in their reviews certainly doesn't give them the credibility of their respective news organizations.

November 26, 2008 3:24 PM
 

Ocean said:

>you don't ask Pogue or Mossgerg about non-Apple issues.<<

Boy that's an attack on their journalistic chops.

I've noticed a tendency on this board...when someone criticizes MS...

November 26, 2008 3:37 PM
 

shark47 said:

"... you don't ask Pogue or Mossgerg about non-Apple issues."

I agree.

November 26, 2008 3:41 PM
 

tayme said:

On a side note...to all of the US Americans reading...Happy Thanksgiving!!! To the others...have a great day tomorrow, wherever you call home!

--tayme

November 26, 2008 3:42 PM
 

robertsjoe said:

This is old news. Some of the same ads now have a disclaimer at the bottom, basically saying this is not the actual speed. Of course to fit in the 30 second ad format.

November 26, 2008 3:51 PM
 

robertsjoe said:

@mikegalos: Don't forget to mention that Microsoft has lied in ads as well.

November 26, 2008 3:51 PM
 

LC21 said:

As "deception" is Thurott's new favorite word, equal time demands some examination of the Vista Ready/Capable lawsuit being played out. Haven't seen that here. I'm shocked, shocked.

HP was deceived by and lied to by MS in the real world, and it cost them a lot of money, and perhaps jobs. Serious stuff.

Apple exaggerates. Every company does; unbelievable the MS sycophants lurking here are just finding that out.

November 26, 2008 4:10 PM
 

shark47 said:

"@mikegalos: Don't forget to mention that Microsoft has lied in ads as well."

But mommy, he did it too.

November 26, 2008 4:13 PM
 

mikegalos@msn.com said:

Since the evening crew has started showing up to do their "Microsoft Sux, Apple Rulz" thing, I figure I'll repost this since I doubt they bother actually reading before sharing their "insights"...

btw: So far excuses 2 and 3 have been the most popular but all 3 have made appearances so try not to be redundant or, if you must, say something like "Excuse 2 and 3!!!"

--------------------

Yep, we're seeing the usual defenses of the indefensible:

Apple defense 1: iPhone is perfect so it's OK to lie because people will be happy they were lied to (the conquistador "It's OK if will kill them since they'll die Christian" defense)

Apple defense 2: MicrosoftIsEvilMicrosoftIsEvilMicrosoftIsEvilMicrosoftIsEvil (the change the conversation to anybody else defense)

Apple defense 3: You're being mean, everybody does it. Stop picking on me. (the 3rd grader defense)

November 26, 2008 4:34 PM
 

Waethorn said:

"Goatberg and Pogue are probably the least biased Mac fanatics out there."

NAAAAAAAH!  ;)

That's not saying much.

....or is that sarcasm?

I just don't know.

November 26, 2008 4:38 PM
 

Ocean said:

No one will touch it:

>>equal time demands some examination of the Vista Ready/Capable lawsuit<<

November 26, 2008 4:43 PM
 

tayme said:

@mikegalos - Now that was just plain childish. You really should get a life other than hanging on Paul's site waiting to "protect and serve". You still have not pointed to examples of those 3 defences that you mention.

Remember, I am not an Apple or Microsoft fan...just tired of the extremism that has taken over most things in the world...mikegalos is as extreme on the MSFT side as robertsjoe, ocean, and the others combined are on the AAPL side.

--tayme

November 26, 2008 4:52 PM
 

RunTimeError said:

Mike, you really need to get out more. Seriously dude.

November 26, 2008 4:58 PM
 

mikegalos@msn.com said:

Dipsh

"You wouldn't ask Amy Winehouse about health issues, and you don't ask Pogue or Mossgerg about non-Apple issues."

The difference is that Amy Winehouse doesn't claim in public that she's an expert columnist in health issues. Unfortunately for their papers' credibility, Pogue and Mossberg claim to write general technology columns despite both effectively writing Apple FanZines.

Of course, it could be worse and actually is. Joe Wilcox, the pro-Apple cheerleader who writes Apple Watch for Ziff Davis, now also writes their theoretically parallel Microsoft Watch blog. That's about as parallel as getting Ann Coulter to write "Republican Watch" and "Democrat Watch".

November 26, 2008 4:58 PM
 

robertsjoe said:

@shark47: "But mommy, he did it too."

Don't be such a child. He does bring it up more often than models at a lunch. But never mentions the reverse. That's what known as hypocrisy. Go look it up. Oh no, there's no built-in dictionary in Windows. Go buy Word, which edition, don't know - there are about 8. Then look it up.

November 26, 2008 5:03 PM
 

Waethorn said:

"No one will touch it:

>>equal time demands some examination of the Vista Ready/Capable lawsuit<<"

Touch this:

news.zdnet.com/2424-9595_22-251586.html

blogs.zdnet.com/storage

November 26, 2008 5:26 PM
 

DRWAM said:

I like the iPhone and don't find it 'flawed' as it works fine for me. I don't think that Leopard is 'buggy' as it works fine for me too. But the norm in the world of advertising is disclaimer. And pardon my Op-Ed, but I think that the iPhone ads fail to give a proper disclaimer that the demonstrated ad speeds are not actual. There is the disclaimer that speeds may vary in certain areas, but in fact, do not even get close to what is shown in the commercial. I strongly agree with Paul about this and I have actually mention it to my wife that I felt that Apple may get sued because of the lack of a satisfactory disclaimer. Potential buyers can easily get the wrong idea and that' what this claim is about. I actually see quite a bit of disclaimers in commercials of other phones, although I feel that simulating the screen picture or video can also be misleading if the model does not function the exact same way. Paul rightfully posted this tp prove his point of such behavior and we Apple fans lost this one, proven by the ASA in the UK. This is just like our argument that Apple does not have a monopoly with it's OS because of the recent Psystar events. [which is a ridiculous thought as then all proprietary software could be considered a monopoly. Duh!]

November 26, 2008 5:30 PM
 

shark47 said:

"Don't be such a child. He does bring it up more often than models at a lunch. But never mentions the reverse. That's what known as hypocrisy. Go look it up. Oh no, there's no built-in dictionary in Windows. Go buy Word, which edition, don't know - there are about 8. Then look it up."

Waaaaaaaaaah waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah. I want my mommy. Mike's bullying me. Waaaaaaaaaaaah.

November 26, 2008 5:31 PM
 

tayme said:

@robertsjoe - "He does bring it up more often than models at a lunch. But never mentions the reverse."

Much like you and you anti MSFT crap. You are an obvious and extreme AAPL lover/MSFT hater. I am not sure what these companies ever did to any of you guys to cause such hatred.

--tayme

November 26, 2008 5:32 PM
 

Waethorn said:

"I am not sure what these companies ever did to any of you guys to cause such hatred."

I like to act as a consumer advocate.  I dislike Apple's false advertising, their inflated prices, and their buggy hardware and software.  I've seen too many people burned by them to just give them a pass on it all.  If I benefit from their stupidity to not appease their customers, then so be it - I'm all for it.  I've gained many new customers because of bad experiences people have had with them.  If that rubs you the wrong way, too f*in' bad.  You're not the boss of me.  >:p

November 26, 2008 6:12 PM
 

tayme said:

@Waethorn - I was reading your post and respecting your opinion...and then those last 2 sentences...oh well. I am curious what you find buggy about the hardware and software. I have not found my MBP or iMac to be any more buggy than an HP running Vista. As far as the price...it is only inflated if the majority of people that would actually buy it, does not because of the price. Free market, remember? Yeah, DRWAM and my sister got a great laptop for under $400 in that Acer...but that is what they were shopping for. I do agree with you on the false advertising, it seems common in most industries now...and they are an arrogant company...but that is widely known.

You refuse to give AAPL any credit for anything...in the same way that robertsjoe refuses to give MSFT credit for anything...and you are both wrong. Both companies have and continue to add value and innovation to the computer industry.

--tayme

November 26, 2008 6:28 PM
 

DRWAM said:

But surprisingly, Apple has the most satisfied customer base, according to numerous survey's. I have heard more Gateway and Dell complaints than Apple, but that's what I guess I should statistically expect, since they sell more computers. Yesterday, one doc had numerous complaints about his daughter's MacBook, but the same guy had even more complaints about Dell in the past. You can't please everyone and some people will just hate a brand. If Apple was my competition, I'd probably dislike them as well. Also yesterday, another doc could praise his MacBook Pro enough. Wae. do you sometimes repair Macs? Just wondering.

November 26, 2008 6:38 PM
 

subzerohitman721 said:

@gorath,

At least you guys have some of the most entertaining television shows coming out of the BBC.

Doctor Who, Torchwood, Hotel Babylon, Eddie Izzard, and plenty of stuff that we get here with BBC America.

My brother and I make it part of our television watching either by DVR or actual broadcast.

Damn good stuff. Something to be very proud of.

Peace.

November 26, 2008 7:02 PM
 

DRWAM said:

No doctor Who until 2010 I think.

November 26, 2008 7:06 PM
 

robertsjoe said:

@waethorn: If you think that there are dissatisfied Apple customers, then number is amplified enormously with Microsoft. Most people I know hate their software with a passion. But they are stuck because they are paying the Microsoft tax.

November 26, 2008 7:11 PM
 

DRWAM said:

Statistically Robertsjoe, no one can honestly deny that there are more dissatisfied Windows users or that they got burned by MS or partners more since they outnumber Macs something like 30 to one.

Here's what a true gentleman would do. In 200 I started doing PET via mobile company. In 2003, a competitor bought a permanent PET unit and and advertised that they were the first in the area. I then bought the same unit, but they advertised that you would need to travel to another state to get a study from an equal scanner, but my scanner was newer and more updated. They were lying, period, end, and getting a ton of business. At first I wanted to crush their heads [and I can, trust me], but then, I realized that the better way to be is to be a better person and not attack them. My approach was to treat patients and referring doctors better and give better, quality service. Since then, I was voted Top Doc in the area and now have a PET practice as big as theirs, although I entered the permanent business almost 20 months later. . This is a true story. They have since taken the claim off their website, BTW.

November 26, 2008 7:34 PM
 

tayme said:

Wow, DRWAM...you have been practicing for 1,803 years. Impressive. No wonder you work out so much. ;-)

--tayme

November 26, 2008 7:54 PM
 

tayme said:

ORr rather 1,808 years...

--tayme

November 26, 2008 7:56 PM
 

Ocean said:

>>Pogue and Mossberg claim to write general technology columns despite both effectively writing Apple FanZines.<<

Pogues last 12 weeks are on the right hand side of the page :  A projector, a digital camera, a video camera, Zune, a charger, tech tips...headphones...but *no reviews of Apple products*.

topics.nytimes.com/.../index.html

Mike and Paul are more OS fanatics than he is...and Mike again proves he doesn't know what he's talking about.

November 26, 2008 8:00 PM
 

shark47 said:

"ORr rather 1,808 years..."

:-) I guess you can count after all. ;)

OT: I hope the hostage situation in Mumbai is resolved soon. This is very, very sad, indeed.

November 26, 2008 8:05 PM
 

robertsjoe said:

@ocean: "Mike and Paul are more OS fanatics than he is...and Mike again proves he doesn't know what he's talking about."

Exactly! There are way too many anti-Apple posts on the old Supersite for Windows. Shows bias.

November 26, 2008 8:57 PM
 

DRWAM said:

I pledged the oath straight from Hippocrates.

PS. may God or someone help them Shark.

November 26, 2008 9:02 PM
 

mikegalos@msn.com said:

" In 200 I started doing PET via mobile company."

When DRWAM started, a CAT scan involved putting an actual cat on the patient.

November 26, 2008 11:50 PM
 

Killsocket said:

I wouldn't worry too much... I bought a computer because the sticker (read: ad) on a PC said it was Vista Capable. What a dupe I am.

They all do it, and Apple is no exception, and being a "Windows" site I shouldn't be surprised, but boy you guys just HATE Apple! I've been reading these blogs and posts for awhile now and every little bit of negative Apple news gets full time coverage. Jobs could be reported as having a juicy fart leaving a skid mark in his drawers and Paul would be all over it complaining the man is an adult so how could Apple let that happen and Ballmer could relieve himself in his pants, but thats ok because they are working on Windows Se7en for that 2009, err, 2010 release date.

Of course the Apple people are going to defend what they love, what do you really expect?

seattlepi.nwsource.com/.../310004_msftsued03.html

The Vista Capable fiasco (yes that was just as crooked) is sort of like the iPhone not running as fast as their ad says.

It is deceptive advertising on Apple's part too, I know there is no way that it can download that fast, and most people in the market know that as well, but that don't make it right. It is right that Apple got called on it,

But, cereal commercials use glue (or stuff that is not milk) to make cereal look good, is that deceptive?  

But what I love the most is the entertainment factor of these blog posts, I don't even read the Windows blogs because everyone pats MSFT on the back, only there are 7 posts doing so with three being Galos referencing obscure MSFT lingo   ;),   An Apple post? nearly 100, if not more every single time.

November 27, 2008 4:46 AM
 

Waethorn said:

"Wae. do you sometimes repair Macs?"

Nope.  Apple refuses to let resellers (of which I am not, due to their ludicrous MOQ restrictions) do it.  They only want "geniuses" [sic] to touch their machines.  These kids are just Best Buy rejects.  They also don't offer replacement parts outside of Apple repair centers - not even in Apple stores either.  By the way, I did give Apple credit for stuff.  Unfortunately, everything  coming out of Cupertino ended up being a flop.  Pink, Copland, and Tesseract come to mind.

"Pogues last 12 weeks are on the right hand side of the page :  A projector, a digital camera, a video camera, Zune, a charger, tech tips...headphones...but *no reviews of Apple products*."

Of course not.  Everyone knows he's going to get a stock raise [sic] from anything Jobs puts out [sic].

November 27, 2008 7:03 AM
 

DRWAM said:

I was just wondering as the 3 local computer repair guys will fix Macs. In fact, many small repair places have signs or ads that show 'We fix Macs too!' or something to the effect. When out of warranty, I would rather bring a broken Mac in to them. but I never had a broken one and can typically fix everything any way. Parts could be a problem, but then there's EBAY. One of the older docs got charged at least $100/hr for a house call. That's when I convinced him to retire his Windows ME box for XP. He then bought a Vista box, which was my first experience to set up Vista [Dell Dimension 430]. I've posted here about how easy it was to set up wireless LAN and Network printer since it was all automatic and done instantly. But then again all computers seem to like me. Now where can I buy a Stepford housewife?

November 27, 2008 7:40 AM
 

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