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So I click on "People" in the link collection at the top of Accounts, and "it" tells me how well Hotmail listens and how wonderful the new Hotmail is.

People?

It's early days.

The world moves and and no one takes notice. How long before this is all re-branded because no one cares for it? Like Vista. Or they spend $1.2b in advertising trying to convince people it's not a lame duck? Both probably.

When will the POP3 access become available for Hotmail so I can sync with the iPhone...come on hurry up

As fare as i can tell the people is the same as the people i had when i got the new hotmail the only thing i see new is if i click a hotmail contact on the side is a link (permissions) to tell me what i am sharing with them.

If you have a Windows Live ID (formerly called Passport, MSN, Hotmail) or um something like that, this week and if you use Xbox/Zune points to purchase your POP3 access at $19.99 a year, I think not sure really.

Give me my WEBTV!!!!!!

One of the new offerings with the Windows Live Suite is the addition of POP3 for Hotmail for free, I am sure I read this somewhere

Can anybody confirm or deny this?

@lindy: Or get a much better email client, like GMail and you get POP3 and IMAP free. Or get POP3 for free with Yahoo! Mail even. Both better options than Hotmale.

@robertsjoe: I know other companies offer POP3 access but if your main email is with Hotmail the process of moving to a new email address is a real pain in the butt.

As for the other email apps you sited as been "much better email client" that is obviously very much up for debate, but your advice is duely noted

I love the new hotmail look, but I hate that it broke the search email. Before I could click on a folder and search and I would get things form that folder now I can only search all my email. Please fix this

@escully: Yes, which web based mail client is best is a personal opinion. But not providing at least POP3 access for free is so 2006. :)

I thought POP3 was so 1990s anyway. I'd much prefer to see them implement IMAP.

"I thought POP3 was so 1990s anyway. I'd much prefer to see them implement IMAP."

Try the 80's then.  IMAP was developed in 1986.

"Or get a much better email client, like GMail and you get POP3 and IMAP free."

You also get something else for free:  Big Brother Google reading all your emails and turning them into ads.

escully you can sync Google calendar with

an app called 'Saisuke' on your iPhone. There is a free version that will sync the current 7 days [but if you don't want to pay the 10 bucks, you can keep changing the date on the iPhone then sync Saisuke with Gmail and get as many weeks as you need]. Google has a desktop app that will sync with Outlook, one way or two way with you can change the sync interval. There is some sort of way to export iCal and import to Google cal I think.

Still I wish that the Live stuff for mobile phones would get to the iPhone. That would be sweet, but I won't hold my breath.

Wae, Gmail on the iPhone is pretty simple, without many features or any features. But it works with it. However, Gmail desktop UI really, really stinks. Replies get listed in a long string and will sometimes send your own reply back to you, unlike on the phone. Fortunately, I've gotten good at typing on the iPhone. I make fewer mistakes than on my Palm Treo little keys.

My "Account" settings look like this. But I have received no email about being upgraded.  I'm still on beta of MSN IM and the photo gallery.

escully, Busysync [busymac.com] syncs Google cal with iCal, so that Saisuke syncing does need need Outlook.

@Doc:

You should read Section 11 from here:

www.google.com/.../tos

I'm sure patients would love it if communiques were being turned into ad dollars.

That's nothing. I bought shirts from an online store with my AMEX card.  About 7 months after my purchase, they inappropriately charged my account 3 more times, for $69.99, 79.99 and 59.99. I disputed the claim with AMEX and was told that when you give any store or vendor your credit card number, that is a contract that allows them to use it. If they use it inappropriately, you can dispute it. 'You cannot block a vendor/store as their rights need to be protected too'!!! WTF!!! I called and sent links about fraudulent charges by the hundreds with this company, but AMEX only called them and left a message that someone was disputing a charge. Since they did not respond to all three disputes, I got my money back one week at a time, but the company continues to charge fraudulently. I notified the NY AG office which sent me a confirmation note, but the company continues. Many did not even purchase from this company, but used another vendor that may have some affiliation. The point is, your info in never safe, no one cares and no one will lift a finger to do anything about. Google and my schedule/calendar? Tell them to feel free to post my location in PET/CT  today all over the web and tomorrow at Mammography and Friday at 106. If someone gives a crap where I am nad can figure out what that means, I'll buy them coffee. But at least they won't get my credit card info. [I'll use cash for the coffee]

Anyway, is there a difference with the Live Calender agreement? I like the look of the Livecal better, but it won't sync with the iPhone [which has a free WiFi tether app if you Jailbreak it, not Netshare, but PDAnet. It ain't secure, but no important info is on my ($400 Vista) laptop anyway.]

@Doc:

No names?  I'd be calling them out on it.

You should switch to Visa.  They protect you against fraudulent online purchases.  (blatant plug for a TWiT sponser)

Oh, and yes, the Live Calendar TOS is much better:

privacy.microsoft.com/.../fullnotice.mspx

Under no means do they maintain the perpetual right to use, modify, or elicit any content posted to their services for the purpose of promoting their services.

Microsoft is TRUSTe-approved for a reason.  Google isn't.

@gorath - check you PM...I just sent you one regarding the healtcare discussion on the thread that was just locked.

--tayme

Paul,

Where are you seeing this "Windows Live People" ?

mail.live.com/default.aspx

the way this commenting system parses URLs is weird. That link should have "?rru=contacts" at the end.

Wae, the OS wasn't the issue as it was the company. In fact, I made the purchase at work from an XP box. I am not real impressed with anything Google has to offer. I just wanted a monthly view calender with text on my phone, and the only one that worked was a $10 app [Saisuke] but it syncs with google. The Palm app equivalent is Datebk which costs $28. ON line, I can just use Exchange. But Windows Live stuff offers many features and is free. MobileMe ain't free. My Christmas wish is a Live app for the iPhone. AT least I found iPhone replacements for my needed Palm apps, in fact, iPhone Documents to Go will be here soon. Maybe they will give a discount to previous version owners. Sure they will[ rolls eyes]. I am using Live stuff more for backup just in case the phone fails. Google sux. And don't even get me in to the Google toolbar discussion, or I will get hostile. Google is evil :)

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Wae, IMAP is indeed pretty old.  IMAP implemented by servers and clients in ways that work to together reliably is much newer.  (The protocol is complex, and not everyone agrees on what the RFCs mean.  Servers and clients from the same organization usually work together.  Anything else was very dicey until the early aughts, and still can be problematic.)

Nonetheless, I see little reason to complain about lack of POP3; the complaints should be about lack of (working) IMAP.  (Except that IMAP can be frustrating on slow connections.)

@Doc

What did you mean about the OS?

I mentioned Visa, as in the credit card company.

I think you read that as "Vista", which is not what I was talking about.

If your iPhone web browser supports AJAX, why not use it with http://calendar.live.com ?

"And don't even get me in to the Google toolbar discussion, or I will get hostile."

....

Google Toolbar - you love it.

:P

"Google sux."

"Google is evil."

We do agree, sir!

"IMAP implemented by servers and clients in ways that work to together reliably is much newer."

If I'm not mistaken, it is now called "IMAP4" (or IMAP4rev1 depending on the implementation).  Most email client programs usually just refer to it as "IMAP" because it's just another 4-letter word like "POP3".

I still prefer push email myself.

OMG Wae, this is why I tell the young docs to slow down when they read the films! Dang!

Anyway, many had VISA and MC credit cards were involved as well as other Bank cards.

And one more time. Google SUX. I see one more Google toolbar on another workstation at our Office, or at my home, I'm going to fly to their HQ and kick someone's butt.

"this is why I tell the young docs to slow down when they read the films!"

Read?  I like watching them!  ;)

I watched a few war movies recently.  One is called Passchendaele, and it was written, directed, and starred Paul Gross, a Canadian actor (used to be on the show called Due South, about a Canadian Mountie and an American cop).  Good movie.  I also watched another one called "Shake Hands with the Devil", which starred Roy Dupuis.  It was a cinematic retelling of the identically named documentary film and book a few years earlier about Romeo Dallaire, and his role during the Rwandan genocide.  Very sad.

I saw Australia last night.  It was alright.  Probably underrated.

"I see one more Google toolbar on another workstation at our Office....I'm going to fly to their HQ and kick someone's butt."

Maybe your IT people should....

Oh, nevermind.

@Doc - Yeah, but does Google still suck on your $400 laptop? (Hadn't seen it mentioned lately...had to ask)

--tayme

We will check out those movies. thanks.

The first thing that I uninstalled on my $400 Vista laptop was Google Toolbar. It was preloaded. I use some Live stuff on it. I use it for the kids' camera and at XMAS, they will all have one. And yes, it uses OneCare.

In case you've never heard of those movies, here's a few links:

ca.youtube.com/watch

ca.youtube.com/watch

@Doc:

This is the real General Romeo Dallaire, and the actor that played him, Roy Dupuis:

ca.youtube.com/watch

Dallaire is now a Canadian Senator (yes, we have a Senate in Canada).

Waethorn

Yes, but we actually elect our Senate.

:-)

For those not familiar with the Canadian Senate, it's a bit arcane and a lot like the British House of Lords.

Officially, the Canadian Senate is appointed by Governor General (who is the official embodiment of H.R.H. Queen Elizabeth II in Canada) on the advice of the Prime Minister.

In practicality, seats are appointed by the party that's in power as a reward and the Senate rarely does much but rubberstamp what the House of Commons passes.

mikegalos knows that because at one time he was a Canadian...along with a programmer, evangelist, farmer, and on and on and on...;-)  <--Nudge, Nudge; Wink, Wink; Say no more.

--tayme

Tayme

Nope. I've never been a Canadian. I did spend a few summers driving a bus in an arts center in upstate New York and listened to the CBC Toronto station. Eventually, I had to learn how the Canadian government worked to maintain any sense of sanity when listening to the news. (Canadian politics is a lot like watching a cricket match. If you were born in the commonwealth, it's obvious, if not it's totally beyond comprehension.)

"Officially, the Canadian Senate is appointed by Governor General (who is the official embodiment of H.R.H. Queen Elizabeth II in Canada) on the advice of the Prime Minister."

Here's the real info:

www.gg.ca/.../index_e.asp

Since we changed from being a British Domain (we were called "Dominion of Canada" until the 1950's or so), we've asserted ourselves as being independent of the British monarchy.  We do not answer to them.  If you're referring to the use of the term "the Crown", it is meant [now] as a term analogous to "the State".  The Governor General's role is "Head of State".  The role is appointed by the previous Prime Minister, and the Governor General must be present to appoint the new PM.  The appointment by the British monarchy is only a symbolic gesture as part of the tradition.

Although the Senate doesn't often oppose House of Commons bills, they do review them, and have opposed some major bills in the past.  They do review bills over a lengthier timeframe, and often come up with agreements more easily because they don't often have partisan arguments like they do in the House.  It is mostly a "chamber of review" to give a second opinion on bills before they're passed.  It's much better than some mental-midget d*ckhead with executive power being able to control everything.

www.parl.gc.ca/.../AboutParl_Process.asp

Wae

That's why I said "officially". The symbolic part is still the "official" rules but de facto they're nothing but ceremonial.

It's like the British Prime Minister officially "makes recommendations to the sovereign" for governmental appointments but, in actuality, the Prime Minister's appointments are never questioned by the palace and are the de facto powers of the PM's office.

"Eventually, I had to learn how the Canadian government worked to maintain any sense of sanity when listening to the news."

Well, you've got 2 major parties, and a few minor ones.  You don't vote for the party leader - he's just a representative for the party.  You vote for the MP (Member of Parliament) that directly impacts you:  the local MP from the party that you like, based on the party's platform.  Each party can have a representative that runs in a local riding.  Some don't in certain areas....Anyways, bottom line is you vote for the party platform, and you hope that, through the chain of command, the party leader gets elected as PM, and doesn't screw up the country as badly as in the US.  What's better than the US is that the party is ultimately held responsible for the leader's action, so they won't let the leader mess up so bad and make them look like idiots.

The other nice thing is that there's opposition to the ruling party.  If the ruling party doesn't have enough seats in the House of Commons, they become a minority government, and the Official Opposition Party can overrule any bills that they don't agree with.  It can be a real catfight sometimes.  If both parties agree, it gets passed to the Senate for review.  They can disallow a bill from passing, but parties in the Senate get along better than those in the House, so it doesn't happen often.

It makes for a lot more drama in politics.  We now have 1 major (Liberals), and 2 minor parties (NDP - New Democratic Party, and Bloq Quebecois) that are now banding together to bring about a confidence vote on the current government, based on their disapproval of the Federal Minister of Finance's new budget proposals.  If they can pull a vote of non-confidence, we could be looking at another general election to take place.  Now, THAT'S entertainment!  ;)

"Canadian politics is a lot like watching a cricket match."

Cricket isn't a Canadian sport, sorry.  Basketball, Lacrosse, and Hockey (based on Lacrosse) were invented by Canadians.

@mike:

If you didn't already know, the Governor General has the final say in most things.  They can call a general election, or clear the House (as can the Speaker).  They are chosen by the previous PM to swear in the new one.  They are also Commander-in-Chief of the Canadian military and appoint the PM's cabinet under advisement.

It's mostly a cushy job though.  Again, a mostly symbolic position retained through tradition.