SuperSite Blog

Too perfect.

What is there to add to what Apple admits when they're under oath?

In other words, dumb Windows users couldn't think for themselves and understand what is going on? Too true.

Another great post from the anti-Apple Supersite for Windows blog.

Giz? Wow. How did that post get by Jesus Diaz or Brian Lam.... Bi-coastal effete  iTards...

"Another great post from the anti-Apple Supersite for Windows blog."

:-)

"In other words, dumb Windows users couldn't think for themselves and understand what is going on? Too true."

So true. These are the same users that helped Microsoft become a monopoly by abusing its monopoly. :-)

Amazing. Apple admits they lie to sell their products and that nobody would believe the lies they tell and the iCabal brags about how wonderful it is that Apple lies to them. No wonder they're reduced to Simpsons fodder.

Seriously. Seek therapy.Soon.

One couldn't really hope to take this blog seriously, could one? Raise your hands if you do. No one? Thought so.

What's not to take seriously?  This posting does nothing more than print an exact quote from Apple.  So if there's something to roll your eyes at, then the quote from APPLE THEMSELVES would be it.

"What is there to add to what Apple admits when they're under oath?"

Haha. Nice way to put it.

@robertsjoe - My hand is raised. What I don't take seriously is you - all of the time...and mikegalos - most of the time.

--tayme

I know several people that thought their iPhone would run as fast as shown in the ads.

Saying that 'speeds may vary' is much different than if they said 'speeds will never reach this fast no matter where you are'.

experiencemusic

Actually, adding the "speeds may vary based on network conditions: disclaimer makes things even more deceptive because it makes it seem like the customer not getting the results demonstrated is some kind of local network problem and not an inherent limit to the device.

I'm sorry, but I have to side with Apple on this one.

I mean come on. Based on this we could realistically sue ALL high speed ISP's for the same kind of deceptive "speed claims".

Mike, I believe that makes me "response number 3".

I think Paul is merely pointing out that Apple stands out in deceptive advertising.

And for those who call Paul an MS shill, do you really believe this blog wouldn't be filled with similar entries if Microsoft made claims about their products, only to have users complain otherwise?

Paul's a fanatic about the truth.

"I'm sorry, but I have to side with Apple on this one."

Of course you do.

Apple:  Unreasonable advertisements for the rest of us.

Apple

Lie Different

I don't think anyone thinks that apple was way off base in the ads, especially considering most ads are deceptive (does a big mac really look like that, and my 'scrubbing bubbles' didn't smile at me and clean my tub).

What is off base was the response that 'no reasonable person would find that credible'.

I think there were a lot of people who saw those ads and really believed that they could recreate the experience. To say they are gullible is fine, but to call them unreasonable is....well....unreasonable.

In my industry, you don't get ahead by trashtalking your competition. Eventually, people will wise up to the fact that most PC desktops are far more expressive and 'individual' than thier homogonized mac counterparts.

I have always said, Mac's (and iphones) are good for students, old people and those who want to interact with technology without engaging in it.  PCs, Linux are for professionals, pragmatics, poor people and the inqusitive.

I wish macs were more of a gateway into technology as a whole...instead...they are just a gateway to more mac.

@chipwinter: "And for those who call Paul an MS shill, do you really believe this blog wouldn't be filled with similar entries if Microsoft made claims about their products, only to have users complain otherwise?

Paul's a fanatic about the truth."

Fanatic about the truth? That's highly amusing. Paul pulls punches a hell of a lot when it comes to Microsoft. He's light and glib with the anti-Apple crap he spouts, but hardly ever about Microsoft. Do you really think there isn't plenty of fodder from Microsoft to make fun of them? Of course there is. That's one of the reason why he's biased. All the claims of fairness are bogus. Hence this is a shill blog for MS.

Robertsjoe:

If you think Paul pulls punches when it comes to Microsoft, you haven't been reading this blog for long. You would be hard pressed to find a more pragmatic critic of Microsoft's products than Paul. He is not one of the 'me too' critics that can't quote beyond 'DLL hell' and 'registry bloat' on things that MSFT needs to correct about Windows. This is what makes Paul and Ed Bott more valuable critics for MSFT than M@sshat and gang.

You go spend a couple more Benjamins at The Dear Leader's altar, and buy some 'taste'. Your ilk lives on borrowed 'taste' and 'elitism'.

@RaaJ: You're kidding right? Maybe since you look at things through Borg-coloured glasses you can't see the forest for the trees. Paul is biased. It's that simple. If he spent as much time and energy kicking Microsoft as he does Apple, this blog would be a torrent of Microsoft bashing. But, of course, it ain't. Since Microsoft pays the bills.

RaaJ is not kidding. He's telling the truth. Just like Paul.

Apple and their fanboys, like you, spend their days twisting the facts, lying at people.

You believe OS X is bug free, you believe Apple had the vision of a 'touchscreen future' - well, that tells enough about you.

Apple's washed your brain and put the same bullshit into it that they spread in their ads.

Seek therapy. Leave the iWorld. Return to reality where facts matter. Seriously.

@mikegalos - you have once again stooped to robertsjoe's level. You two belong together!

--tayme

@robertsjoe

"One couldn't really hope to take this blog seriously, could one? Raise your hands if you do. No one? Thought so."

Of course that argument could also be applied to your comments on this blog.

"In other words, dumb Windows users couldn't think for themselves and understand what is going on?"

Of course that argument could also be applied to a percentage of Mac users.

The UK ad for the iPhone was a gross distortion of the truth, and UK Advertising Standards Authority does not allow such things. “You can do this... REALLY FAST”, “You can do that... REALLY FAST”.  It was complete BS. Yes they put a disclaimer on the thing but it was completely overridden by the voice over claiming it was “REALLY FAST”.

Now Apple has the arrogance to claim that they’re right and everyone is wrong? Come on!  I’m not surprised that Paul reports so much on Apple. It’s a reaction to their misinformation campaign that continually casts Microsoft’s products in a poor light whilst they present themselves as completely perfect.

"Apple

Lie Different"

Microsoft: Vista Capable

Paul re: Apple: "Bad, bad bad"

Paul re: Vista-Capable lawsuit: Cue sound of crickets chirping

WinJihadists: "Yeah! Go Get 'em, Paul"

Everyone else: "Pot, meet kettle"

"Hence this is a shill blog for MS."

Then why are you here?  If you are so convinced that Paul is worthless, why do you come back day after day?  It really doesn't make any sense.

If you don't like what Paul has to say, don't come back and don't give him the page clicks.  It's that simple.

Best quote of all the responses so far, is of course by the extremely ignorant and close minded Mike Galos..

"No wonder they're reduced to Simpsons fodder."

Hey mike, go look for this quote regarding The Simpsons

"Buy him out boys"

LOL...wow Mike, you truly are a fool sometimes!

You're a small man Paul Thurrott.  Mike Galos, ditto.

It would be foolish, of course, that Apple, the defendent of a law suit exactly about the ad, would admitting  it, or at least the legal team admitting guilt . Admitting guilt would be stupid. However, that is one of the dumbest comment to make as well, since it diminishes credibilty of the ads. If they show you speeds in an ad, I would expect it unless they put in a REASONABLE disclaimer. Diclaiming that speed varies on the network does not tell me that my phone will never achieve the demonstrated speeds. The doofus that made the statement should have just said 'No comment'.

....and people wonder why I say Apple is bad for consumers.

Obviously, the UK understands this already.

DRWAM

It wasn't a doofus that could have said "No comment" it was an actual quote from Apple's legal team in their reply to the lawsuit and was listed as one of their affirmative defenses.

Considering how many times Paul has slammed Windows Mobile, Live Search, and the Longhorn reset, I've heard him criticize MS more than he criticizes Apple over the years. The thin skin of the Apple sycophants is so predictable one small criticism and they all need a diaper change.

Quit whining ya little candy asses.

whiplash:

Good one!

You're a small man Paul Thurrott.  Mike Galos, ditto.

Yes, it was a doofus lawyer. If I were the jury, that statement would decrease Apple credibility. If it were corporate apple approved, someone should "Get a Clue" not Get a Mac. As above, the lawyer should have just stated that they mislead intentionally, but feel that no one should believe them. Then I would ask "to whom should I make out the check?" [to the plaintiff of course. This just proves that most lawyers are not Harvard grads.

Most of the Apple fanatics on here just want to rip Paul apart and really haven't been here long. I've been a regular to the Supersite since 1997, and he's ripped Microsoft a new one often and frequently. Its just they pounce on any criticism of Apple, that they can't stand it. They feel that this machine constructed by Jobs is perfect and needs no criticism. Thats why I don't believe in absolute perfection.

However, who ever admit this, has effectively put Apple's foot in its mouth. That public statement could be used against them in court as admission of guilt of intentional misleading and deceptive advertising. All you need is one good court victory and you have a legal precedent. Thats the one thing every security officer and police officer is told, "Becareful what kind of statements that you make. Becareful what notes you take during incidents. It can be subpoenaed and become a legal document or treated as a statement of fact."

Steve Jobs might want to consider reshuffling his legal team here. If this got past legal, it might cost Apple a pretty penny.

@subzerohitman721

The problem is that Paul had the nerve to post this.

That is why Robertsjoe, Ocean, lotsamystuff, and the rest of the gang are going after him.

They aren't saying what Paul posted is a lie, they hate the fact that he posted it.

Oddly enough, for all of the righteous indignation they toss at Paul everyday, you would think they would just stop reading the site if it made them so mad.

"They feel that this machine constructed by Jobs is perfect and needs no criticism. Thats why I don't believe in absolute perfection."

Really?  He would disagree:

http://tinyurl.com/5uxbm3

"The problem is that Paul had the nerve to post this."

Nerve?  On his own blog?

LOL!

Did someone notice that Apple now mention on its iPhone ads that the loading speed is not the actual one on the bottom of the screen ?

"Did someone notice that Apple now mention on its iPhone ads that the loading speed is not the actual one on the bottom of the screen ?"

It was already mentioned.

You're a small man Paul Thurrott.  Mike Galos, ditto.

@Ocean - Obsessing much? You double posted that worthless statement...

--tayme

You're a small man Paul Thurrott.  Tayme, Mike Galos, ditto.

Wow...me and mikegalos in the same category...that is unusual. But whatever, dud...you've officially lost ALL credibility.

Oh, and by the way...I'm rather large...not in the DRWAM sense of the word...some would call me fat...and I'm ok with that.

--tayme

If anyone wants proof of Paul being a critic of Microsoft, you don't even need to go past today's homepage -- click "Windows Vista: Simple vs. Easy". As an example in his own words, "Windows 7 is not, in fact, easier to use than its predecessors, because all Microsoft is really doing is hiding complexity, not removing it. [...] with this release, the company is instead taking the decades-old, convoluted, and complicated Windows UI and giving it a spit shine." Doesn't sound like the stuff of an MS fanboy, at least not to me.

You're a small man Paul Thurrott.  Mike Galos, ditto.

@Ocean

You and robertsjoe kill me, why the hell do you keep reading if it annoys you so much? Aren't there thousands of Mac centric sites you can all do a group hug at? Really you guys have issues, let me guess your mommy always belittled your daddy in public and now you've grown up (sort of) an angry and bitter adult.  Apple fans should be ecstatic over Apples recent successes, but instead you torture yourself coming to winsupersite blog and whine and snivel or make stupid snarky  and inane comments. I'm embarrassed for you. You guys would have done well in Germany in the 1940's or in the former Soviet Union in the 30s. Anyone stepping out line or questioning correct dogma needs to be disappeared or at least discredited. Heil Steve!

tayme, it's one workout at a time. You don't need a years work in one day. Let the goal be small increments.

tayme,

I think he's telling us we can stop dieting which works for me since I picked up some great Ethiopian take out on the way home from the conference...

Oh, and in case anybody gets to Seattle and is looking for Ethiopian food, I'd recommend Assimba on East Cherry Street. Great Ethiopian food and good prices. (We got told about it by one of my wife's former coworkers from Addis Ababa who used to eat there whenever he got homesick.)

@mike

Thanks for the tip Mike, I'm from California (Cupertino actually) and I'm going to tell EVERYONE to head up there and check it out!

whiplash

As I said, if you get to Seattle, I'd advise it.

Mike, do they deliver to New Jersey?

DRWAM

I doubt it but I'm not sure since the subject of delivery to New Jersey, not surprisingly, never came up.

Maybe you could look them up on maps.live.com using your $400 Vista laptop and ask!

I never thought of that [you beat me to it]. But I would rather search with Windows 7 beta on my 2nd partition on my $400 Vista laptop. So when you hear of a public beta, please, pretty please with sugar, send me a link. We just ordered a $649 Vista laptop today for one of the docs. He was too cheap to spring another $50 for the 64 bit version model.

Lawyer speak time,

The reality is that in the legal system there is a concept of a "Reasonable Man" or today "Reasonable Person." The legal dates back to the late 1800s and became one of the basic ideas in legal formalism.

The idea is how would a "reasonable person" react under certain circumstances?  For example, if you are being tried for murder and are using the self defense as your legal defense, you will be held to the actions of a "reasonable person."  That is, would a reasonable person under similar circumstances behave in a similar manner?  If the answer is in the affirmative than you should be acquitted, if the answer is that you did not act in a manner that was reasonable, than you should be convicted.  

So Apple's defense MUST be that a reasonable person would accurately interpret the ad as being a optimistic in the performance of the car.  For example, VW had a commercial  a few years ago showing one of their Passat's driving insanely around town, making jumps and doing amazing stunts, would a "reasonable man" believe that their Passat could do such things without being damaged?

Thus, the criticism of the lawyers use of reasonable man is just wrong, You could argue, that the ad was wrong and it misrepresented the product in which case Apple's lawyers side would lose.  

As for whether Apple's ad was deceptive, I would first argue that ALL advertising is to some degree deceptive.  Beer doesn't make me more attractive.  Axe body spray is NOT going to make women chase me down the street.  If I buy a Porsche I am not suddenly going to become a F-1 driver.  

On the one hand, I can see why Apple would speed up the phone, because, after all they are trying to demonstrate what the phone can do, but only have 30 seconds to show the ad.  However since the ad stresses the speed of the phone, and the discrepancy is  so great, I would argue that at the least Apple should pull the ad, and end some of this negative publicity.

As far as settling the lawsuit, I think the real difficulty is for the plaintiffs to actually show some monetary harm.

Regards  

Joe Dokes

joe-dokes

The problem is that Apple demonstrated speed in an ad that featured improved speed as the primary claim of the ad. That's where most of the analogies break down.

If the Porsche ad you talked about, for example, showed an average person driving a Boxster lapping Monaco faster than Mario Andretti in a Lotus 79 (to use a non-current example) but talked about race bred engineering it would be OK since the demonstration does not reflect the claim being made. If that same ad talked about race level performance, it would be deceptive since the demonstration could reasonably be said to validate the claim being made since it was a demonstration of race level performance.

But IANAL

@DRWAM - Actually, I am just about to go hit the gym now...45 minutes on an elliptical and a couple of rounds on the circuit machines about 5 times a week now for a few months...Its working, but I do tend to like food...and I have no self control. I need to either increase the number of calories burned or decrease what I eat...I think I am right up there with Michael Phelps on caloric intake!!!

-tayme

Again, IANAL so please correct me where I'm wrong but...

Since the plaintiff purchased both the device and contract based at least partly on the ad, the entire contract for the device and services could be considered at issue since the demonstrated performance was an implied part of the contract that was false. Since Apple did not attempt to meet the terms and in fact has shown that they had no intention of meeting the terms of the contract at the time of the offer the contract could be considered fraudulant. The contract thus has monetary value as does the plaintiff's time used in selecting a replacement contract to replace the fraudulent one.

Since value passed in both directions, the contract is in force and the terms subject to enforcement.

Signing a contract with intent to not provide the services that are a part of that contract is a clear violation of contract law and thus there are additional damages that could be levied by the court.

Again, IANAL but I'd guess that this is the monetary basis of the plaintiff's claim against Apple.

I did not see the new disclaimer about speed, but I think that a reasonable  or average person could easily believe that the iPhone was as fast as advertised. The old disclaimer was just not enough as posted many times, that the shown speed were never achievable. Damage would be the cost of the phone and early termination, but I can't see much more. It could be less if someone was already a customer of ATT and stated that they were not going to switch providers.

OT, keep it up tayme. I'll save a pair of speedo's for us;) Also, decreasing fats would result in less calories in the same volume of food. Still my mom lost weight better when she actually weighed her food portions. Before kids, my wife and I would cook just enough to eat. Therefore, we would not over-eat. 3 kids later and she now has to use the treadmill, since there's tons of food and even more junk. God it's good to be an ectomorph!

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