SuperSite Blog

Opera is an interesting company, but with the introduction of WebKit their momentum has slowed down.

Plus the update mechanism in Opera sucks a bit imo. :P

Opera is good browser, if a bit fussy.  It's fast and the rendering engine is very good.  Their problem is twofold; 1) the vast majority of people have never heard of it. 2) even among those who have heard of it, there's really no compelling need for yet another browser.

FWIW, Opera accounts for 0.48% of the traffic to my company's website in a typical month.

Well, it looks nice and seems fast but has some little problems like not actually letting you post comments here!

WebGuy

That's about typical usage for Opera in the US.

Interestingly, while Opera 10 renders the ACID3 test correctly, it fails to render most pages I've tried to view with it.

So much for the value of "official" standards (ACID is NOT a standard by any actual standards body) over "de facto" standards.

Personally, I care a lot more about whether the sites I actually visit render reasonably than whether a browser supports extentensions that nobody actually uses.

I've found that issue with opera in the past as well.

I really liked the interface, and the speed was excellent, but when most pages I visited didn't display correctly, I had to turn my back on it. Shame.

I have heard a lot of good stuff about their mobile browser. Since I don't use a mobile browser at this time, but am considering jumping on the smart phone bandwagon, can anybody confirm for me?

--tayme

OT - BTW, the phone I am looking at is the Samsung Omnia. It is a Windows Mobile 6.1 Professional based Verizon phone...Thoughts???

--tayme

"It is a Windows Mobile 6.1 Professional based Verizon phone...Thoughts???"

Umm...yeah. It is a Windows Mobile 6.1 Professional based Verizon phone.

'nuff said.

;-)

Well the Windows Mobile 6.1 Professional works for me but Verizon's data plans aren't competitive here.

You might want to check plan pricing in your area.

Omnia's a pretty nice phone, although the interface is a little sluggish.

The data plan is pretty competive here...using the discount that I get based on my employer helps that out a lot!!! Their 3G network here is better than the others, too...so for me, Verizon is the best choice.

--tayme

Tayme,

There are two different Opera browsers for mobile phones, so you have to figure out which you want.

Opera Mobile is pretty much a regular browser which attempts to render web pages on your phone as written.

Opera Mini is a different beast.  It's a thin client that uses some smarts at Opera's server side to display pages using OBML.  Here's how it works: You request a URL in Opera Mini. Opera Mini makes the request to a proxy server run by Opera. Opera’s proxy server connects to the web server hosting the requested URL, and renders the page into an image. This image is then transmitted (in a proprietary format called OBML — Opera Binary Markup Language) to the Opera Mini client. Opera Mini displays the rendered image on screen.

I have no experience with either, so I can't say much useful beyond that.

@gorath - The one that I played with for several hours the other night was not sluggish at all. I did learn that you have to bring up task manager and kill your web browser if you aren't using it and that helped a lot. I also had an iPhone side by side with the Omnia, and the Omnia was actually more responsive than the iPhone. Could have been a fluke, but I had the owner of the iPhone reset it to see if that helped...and it still seemed slower.

@ WebGuy - Good info. Thanks!!!

I'll quit with the OT posts now...just wanted some opinions, and even if I do argue with the lot of you, I do value the input --> most of the time!!!

--tayme

I thought the Omnia didn't receive good reviews on Gizmodo or Engadget. One of the minuses, they claimed, was of course, Windows Mobile.

The reviews on phonedog and phonescoop were much better...

--tayme

Interesting, Opera seems to be pretty popular here in Europe.  Not as popular as IE or Firefox to be sure but still well known.  I have tried it a few times on OS X, XP and Linux.  Nice but I don't intend to change from OmniWeb or Firefox.

Opera has always been a contender but the issues with rendering has always plagued it. Thats why I've had to pass on Opera so many times. Its ashame because they do a lot of things well, but they need to resolve its lack of reliability versus I.E. or Firefox.

Second, Opera's lack of popularity is the fault of the Opera software company. They don't advertise in any of the magazines, websites, or on television. How the heck is anyone to know if you don't advertise?

Hopefully Opera can fix these issues and get a browser to challenge the Big 3 of browsing.

Avro

Paul had browser share numbers in a post on Nov. 23rd. Worldwide, Opera has 0.55% global usage share. (They didn't even make the list on US usage which bottomed out with Netscape at 0.50%)

See community.winsupersite.com/.../google-chrome-takes-one-half-of-one-percent-of-the-web-browser-market.aspx for more.

@ tayme. hmm. fair enough. The one I tried felt a little sluggish to my mind, but not enough for me not to want one!

Put simply, Internet Explorer is by far the world's leading browser with Firefox a very distant second and everybody else is pretty much lost in the noise.

(less than 5% total for all other browsers combined in both US and worldwide markets)

subzero

"Opera's lack of popularity is the fault of the Opera software company."

Realistically, they're competing with Microsoft's money power and influence and Google's money, power and influence.

(Remember that Google pays most of Firefox's bills despite all the "we're community driven and not corporate" chatter)

>>Put simply, Internet Explorer is by far the world's leading browser with Firefox a very distant second <<

Kinda like how McDonalds sells more burgers than anyone but would never ever recognition for making and selling a best in breed burger.

Mike,

It all depends on where you are.  Opera has 17.6% market share in the Ukraine and is ahead of FireFox.

diary.braniecki.net/.../central-europe-marketshare-situation-short-analysis-part-5-ukraine

As of September 2008 browser market share in Europe was

IE 60%

FireFox 31%

Opera 4%

Safari 3%

So it is a bit more popular than Safari here, but way behind FireFox.  Most people I know are familiar with Opera and use it occasionally, but not as their primary browser.

Avro

Right. There are markets that vary wildly in almost all product categories. Sometimes due to differences in localization, sometimes by an early introduction in a previously untapped market, sometimes just due to a local cultural leader picking a product. I'm sure with very careful selection there's a place where Opera is the leading browser (For example, it's likely that in some parts of Opera's home town of Oslo it does exceptionally well)

Still, in the overall, global market, (and the Internet is nothing if not global) it's:

81.36% - Internet Explorer

14.67% - Firefox

03.97% - Everybody else combined

Mike

Agreed, I think you will find that Opera has its biggest following in Europe.

Keep in mind too that the majority of people stick with what is loaded on their computer.  Most Linux users go for FireFox, most Windows users IE, most Mac users Safari,  this is not an indication of worth, just one of human nature in that they need to go out of their way to install and use something else and all that is a bit too much effort.

If Opera came preloaded on Linux, Windows or OS X that would be the most popular browser on the platform.  Sad, but true.

"McDonalds sells more burgers than anyone but would never ever recognition for making and selling a best in breed burger."

The new angus burgers are actually really good.

www.mcdepk.ca/AngusBurger.htm

I can honestly say without exaggeration that they do come out looking like the picture.  That's a major step up for a fast food chain.  Combo's aren't cheap though:  it's $7.99CDN for a bacon&cheddar angus burger combo.  You can get side salads instead of fries, which I like.  I had one of those combo's for lunch today with some of that Paul Newman Italian Dressing.*  It was yummy!  :)P

*I would've got the Balsamic Vinaigrette, but they discontinued it awhile back for some reason.  It was my fave.

On a side note, they're also doing a corporate "Re-imaging":

www.mcdepk.ca/Re-ImagingImages.htm

Some of the places look pretty swank.  Almost (perish the thought!) date-worthy.  ;)

....and now for something completely different:

http://tinyurl.com/6gwz87

;)

Waethorn

The McDonalds Angus Burger seems to be a Canadian only product or at least isn't in nationwide distribution in the US.

McDonalds is amazingly good at localizing their menu for each country. When I was in Brazil a few years back I used to grab a hot banana pie and a glass of guarana there on the way back to the hotel after work. In New Zealand the premium burger had a fried egg and a slice of beet on it.

Angus burger is a Canadian only product! LMAO!

Mike, they're supposedly made of Scottish beef, from highlan' coos. You know, the big hairy buggers.

So I'll let you figure that one out ;)

Actually, gorath, Angus Beef in the US (and likely Canada) is a marketing name that actually no longer designates that the beef is actually from the Angus breed cattle.

Most of the beef for McDonalds North America-wide comes from Alberta cattle.  Alberta also is one of the main sources of Angus beef.

In the East Coast, McLobster is my fave.  They have them in Maine too, but from all the pics I can find, they don't look anything like that in Canada.  The Canadian McLobster doesn't have celery - just lettuce, real lobster chunks (a seafood connoisseur can tell), and mayo.  The bun is the same type they've used for the Toasted Deli Sandwiches (tell me you guys in the States had those at least!), not some glorified hot dog bun like the pics indicate.  Those buns were like an Italian mini-sub bun, but were about half-way crusty on the outside, and were toasted on the inside.

www.mcdonalds.ca/.../food_tds_landingpage.jpg

These are what the TDS's looked like.  They don't carry them around here anymore though.  They've moved on to the premium angus beef and chicken sandwiches now.  Kind of a shame.  When they introduced the premium beef and chicken sandwiches, they had brought the Turkey BLT from the TDS menu to the new square bun type to match the beef and chicken.  After the Canada-wide Maple Leaf deli meat recall, they discontinued them.  The new Southwest chicken sandwich is nearly identical to the old TDS one, except for the bun.  The Chicken Caesar TDS has moved to a Chicken Snack Wrap menu.

AFAIK, they no longer use the TDS/McLobster-style buns around here.  They still use them for McLobster in the East Coast though (at least in Canada they do).  The new buns are good.  I liked the old ones too though.  They're both different, so I dunno if I could choose a favourite.  I could see the new ones being easier for them to use for the current menu since they only have beef burgers and chicken on them.

I actually like McDonalds now.  I wouldn't have said that 10 years ago.  It's changed for the better, and I like it.  I certainly won't eat at Burger King anytime soon though.

I kind of wonder if the result might be different now if they did a sequel to the movie "Super-Size Me".  If they don't have this kind of menu in the US, it'd be interesting to see what result the Canadian menu would have.

Oh come on, you know that's what it means. You're just being a pedantic *** now.

What the hell else does Angus beef mean then?

Even moreso, when the product is called "Aberdeen Angus"?

gorath

It's a trade name of Certified Angus Beef LLC which sets some specific requirements for membership and for beef to be sold with that trade name. It does signify specific quality requirements but no longer a specific breeding requirement.

At least that's what I heard from some local farmers in the business.

Funny, we go from a discussion about Opera to a discussion about Angus beef. I had to scroll up to see who was responsible. No surprises there - our resident troll made another senseless remark.

Actually, it would seem that we eat more beef than we use Opera.

DRWAM

I think we eat more pomegranate than we use Opera.

Hey, pomegranate juice is good...I'll take a Roy Rogers, please.

--tayme

Aberdeen Angus is a particular breed of cattle.

Opera is a particular breed of web browser.

It's tenuous, but it's much stronger a link than some subjects covered here in the past.

Paul,

Just a question - why haven't we seen anything from you on the Blackberry Storm?  I mean you have a lot to say about the "flaws" of the iphone, but you're apparently afraid to say a word about its nearest competitor from RIM, the king of the U.S. market for smartphones.

Of course this is a rhetorical question - we all know why you're silent.  RIM failed - utterly - with the Storm.  See

www.nytimes.com/.../04pogue-email.html

Which only shows how big an achievement the iphone.  It ain't easy to duplicate what apple did.  Even almost 2 years out from release.

Um... Maybe because it isn't a Windows product?

Paul also didn't review the latest Dell computers based on the Intel p7 and that would be a LOT more relevant.

oops Need more coffee.

Obviously that should read Intel Core i7.

Multi-core with hyperthreading!

Now that's the way to run Windows!

mikey - and the iphone is?

@cesjr - This has already been discussed. In Pogue's "review", he mentions the iPhone nearly more than the Storm. I like the way that Pogue lists all of the comments from people that agree with him; but when it comes to those that don't, this is all he says, "Not all readers agreed with me, however. About a dozen new Storm owners wrote to say that, while they, too, found some bugs and sluggishness, they liked the phone nonetheless." He does however list a few from people that haven't used a Storm, but posted jabs at him. I liked; "Having you comment on technology is like having Tom Cruise comment on religion. You stretch and distort facts to fit your opinions. Your biases are obvious to any objective person." Of course, those are probably in the "article" so that he can say it was objectively written, which it obviously wasn't.

Have you used a Storm? Tell us your thoughts? See above for my thoughts when I did a side by side of an iPhone and a Samsung Omnia.

--tayme

@mikegalos - in all fairness....the Blackberry is a device that a lot of Windows users may also use - with Windows...and that is how Paul explains his blogs about iPod, iPhone, and other Apple products.

--tayme

"mikey - and the iphone is?"

Something that Paul bought and owns.

tayme, I'll tell you my thoughts.  I can read.  I read the following reviews:

NY Times’ Pogue reviews RIM’s BlackBerry Storm: ‘I’ve got a better name for it: BlackBerry Dud’ - November 26, 2008

InformationWeek reviews RIM’s BlackBerry Storm: ‘Tiresome, slow, severe bugginess and problems’ - November 24, 2008

TIME Mag reviews RIM’s BlackBerry Storm: ‘Novelty screen feels cheap; steer clear of this storm’ - November 20, 2008

Chicago Tribune reviews RIM’s BlackBerry Storm: ‘Can’t compete with Apple’s iPhone’ - November 20, 2008

Gizmodo reviews RIM’s BlackBerry Storm: ‘Heavy, laggy, sluggish, unstable, clunky, and tiring’ - November 20, 2008

Engadget reviews RIM’s BlackBerry Storm: ‘Frustrating, inelegant, uncomfortable; a disappointment’ - November 20, 2008

PC World reviews RIM’s BlackBerry Storm: ‘Awkward, disappointing; a failed experiment’ - November 20, 2008

Really, what more do we need to prove a point to you guys?  You can't accept reality.

another thing tayme -

it doesn't have wifi!!!!!  unbelievable.

Guess what, I didn't have to use it to know that.  So I don't have to use it to know it's a complete nonstarter.  Complete and utter nonstarter.

You can thank Verizon for that one.  You know, the nazi like company that is the only viable alternative that paul never mentions that has a better signal strength than ATT.  And no, I don't count sprint (lucky if they stay alive 18 months) and t-mobile (talk about poor coverage) as options.

"@mikegalos - in all fairness....the Blackberry is a device that a lot of Windows users may also use - with Windows...and that is how Paul explains his blogs about iPod, iPhone, and other Apple products. "

Yes, but these are products that he pays for with his own money. He doesn't get review units like Pogue does. I don't think he can buy 15 different phones and review them.

Aww....what happened to the food talk?  It was far more interesting.

I'm probably making tayme hungry, and the Doc is checking his own blood pressure....  ;)

@mike:  The i7 is awesome.  A Core i7 920 beats a Core 2 Extreme QX9770 in performance and efficiency tests and costs about a third of the price.  The Intel X58 chipset for it supports both ATI CrossfireX and NVIDIA SLi, but manufacturers have to pay the licensing fee to have SLi enabled.  Unfortunately, Intel themselves aren't doing this on their own board, favouring ATI (AMD) instead, which is kind of awkward.  Luckily, EVGA - NVIDIA's closest partner - offers it on theirs in a Tri-SLi configuration with more options than Intel's board, but for about the same amount of money.

Oh, and FYI for all you Mackies out there:  Core i7 mobile processors won't see the light of day until about next summer, so you won't see those in an iMac anytime soon, unless Apple starts making their iMac's much bigger to accomodate desktop processors.

@cesjr - You must consider me one of the "winjihadist"...well, you are wrong...but I'm not a member of the "iCabal", either. I like technology...it don't matter to me. Like I said above...I was able to do a side by side with an iPhone and a Samsung Omnia. Guess which one I am going to buy? The one that was less sluggish and met my needs better...and it has wifi, thanks, Verizon!!! Plus it has an FM radio...hmm I think I'll use that at the gym to tune in the TV's while I'm on the elliptical(See, Doc, I'm still taking your advice).

--tayme

@waethorn - "so you won't see those in an iMac anytime soon"

In that case, the i7 sux...

mmm, think I'll have a protein shake!!!

--tayme

@cesjr - Before you accuse the Verizon store where I was of providing a shabby iPhone for the side by side...you should know that the iPhone belongs to my nephew...not the Verizon store. So, I'll get a snappier phone, on a more reliable and fast network, with a spot for a micro SD card...soon to be up to 32GB...plus the 8GB on board. Lets see, that's 40GB...how much space does the biggest iPhone have again???

--tayme

"Core i7 mobile processors won't see the light of day until about next summer, so you won't see those in an iMac anytime soon, unless Apple starts making their iMac's much bigger to accomodate desktop processors."

My question, then, is: why buy an all-in-one PC? Wouldn't a laptop be better? I mean, it's not like these things are cheap.

"why buy an all-in-one PC? Wouldn't a laptop be better? I mean, it's not like these things are cheap."

I don't see the purpose in getting an all-in-one PC, now with Mini-ITX form factor making it possible to get desktop quad-core performance in an extremely small desktop system, so the space argument isn't valid anymore.  The performance in today's desktop PC's is far greater than what you get with any MoDT all-in-one computer or notebook system.  If you're getting a desktop, it doesn't make sense to get an all-in-one when the performance, component value/cost, and modularity of todays Mini-ITX SFF PC's is far greater.

I mean, if you look at most all-in-one's, the only way to get a quad-core is by way of an expensive Core 2 Extreme mobile chip.  That's ludicrous.

If you want portability, buy a laptop.  Short of that, you get a better computer with a modular desktop than with an all-in-one.

I'm not surprised that the Storm doesn't have Wi-Fi. Doesn't need it. After all, Verizon, for all its flaws, has the best network in the states. The rest -- including Cingular and Sprint (my new carrier of choice) -- are also-rans in one way or another. Buying a phone on the Verizon network generally means stellar service in NYC, DC and the Northeast and pretty good service everywhere else. Why bother with WiFi except to avoid going over the soft data use caps?

[Although I will say that Sprint's 3G service is sweet; with my Samsung Instinct and Samsung Rant (love both; beautiful phones that actually get the job done and I generally prefer over either the iPhone or Blackberry), the streaming is really good (at least in New York, Indiana and DC, my main haunts).]

Why make an all in one?  Space, less crap on the desktop, looks.  Apple, HP, Dell and Sony all make them.  HP has a touch screen version.

Honestly with today's software who needs a QuadCore?  So few apps will really use more than one core.  Sure the OS will spread it around but that will only work so far.  You have 1.8ghz dual core Intel CPU's that blow away 3 year old 3.2ghz hyper threaded P4's, using less than half the power.

Unless you are ripping DVD's 24/7 or running a busy VMware Workstation box with 4 or more VM's, a dual core mobile CPU rips through browser pages and spell checking Word.

Lindy,

Of course, you'll also hold those same opinions on all-in-one designs if Apple decides to actually produce a mainstream desktop. Right?

And, of course, you'll also hold those same opinions on quad cores when Apple decides to actually use the i7. Right?

No chance you're just saying the grapes are sour...

Now. Onto the misinformation part of the post rather than the sour grapes:

"Honestly with today's software who needs a QuadCore?  So few apps will really use more than one core.  Sure the OS will spread it around but that will only work so far. "

Who needs quad core? Pretty much everybody.

Right now, runing just Outlook, IE and some background apps, I'm running 489 user threads and that's not including threads run by the OS itself.

Now, if I happen to run on a quad system, those threads get split between the 4 cores so each one gets about 122 threads each.

If I start running an old, crufty, single threaded high performance app that hogs the processor, one core will get that app and the other 3 will split those 489 and I've still got 163 threads shared on each of the other 3.

If I add another old, crufty, single threaded high performance app, now I've got 1 app on core 1, 1 app on core 2 and cores 3 and 4 are splitting the workload of all the other threads.

Now, as an exercise for the reader, how does this compare with how things would work if my 489 threads plus two old, crufty single threaded apps were running on a single core?

Would things be even better if those old, crufty, single threaded apps were better written? Absolutely.

Do I get huge benefits even if they're not? Absolutely.

Who needs quad core? Everybody with a modern OS that knows what a thread is (and threads have been around since IBM and Microsoft released OS|2 1.0 in 1987 so most do by now)

And just to add kernel threads, my system currently is running 99 processes which have 1371 threads.

I wonder if Lindy still thinks that would work better on a system with only one core or wouldn't gain performance with a few extra.

And to answer some questions that may show up during the night...

Windows Vista, depending on version, can support 1 or 2 physical sockets.

Each socket with a Core i7 has 8 threads of execution (looks like 8 processor cores and is sometimes called an 8 logical processor chip)

A system with two Core i7 processors running Vista has 16 logical processors (looks like it has 16 processors)

The current Windows kernel happily works with up to 32 logical processors so a 16 logical processor system isn't even making it breathe hard.

Windows 7's kernel (and Windows Server 2008 R2's) has an improved scheduler that supports up to 256 logical processor systems (which would be 16 of the current 8 logical processor Core i7 chips) - of course, nobody's making those yet but they almost certainly will during Windows 7's lifetime

It's worth mentioning that Mike is right.

Another neat thing with multi core is that you can render video, whilst still using your machine at seemingly full speed - Since most video encoding currently only uses one core.

"In the East Coast, McLobster is my fave."

I see your lack of taste extends beyond your choice of Operating System.

Well cesjr, you just proved Godwin's Law.  Sorry, you just lost credibility, at least any that you had left.

en.wikipedia.org/.../Godwin%27s_Law

And for what it's worth, Paul has never discussed BlackBerry all that much from what I can see, at least here on the SuperSite.

And since we are also talking about burgers, White Manna for the win!  offthebroiler.wordpress.com/.../nj-dining-white-manna