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Paul,

Once again thanks goes to you, MJ, and Tom it was the best part of the keynote.  Yesterday Apple set the bar low and tonight MS tripped over the bar and fell flat on its face.    What the hell was up with Robbie and the 12 year old?

Anyone know if Zune downloads are DRM free now?

Actually, Yawn!, I thought the keynote was better than Apple's. Newsy? No. But then, even if they announced a Zune phone, it still wouldn't have been a surprise; too many people all over sniffing out big news from Redmond and Cupertino. So keynotes really aren't more than just entertainment and a chance to show how cool a company is.

Loved Tripod. And damn, Charlotte Jones. I loved her 'top'. And I don't mean her sweater.

>>The Windows 7 Beta will be available in English, German, Japanese, Arabic, and Hindi, and each language will be available in 32-bit and 64-bit versions (except Hindi which will only be available in 32-bit).<<

Curious why Spanish would be left out.

@Sevenmack

I think yesterday Apple started the nail in the coffin of Keynotes and MS finished driving it in tonight.

I agree with you about Jones' 'top' but if Balmer did not steal Bill Gates sweater he would have had the won the battle of the tops.

Yawn!

I missed the keynote because of a production problem at work - and no, it wasn't with a Windows box, it was actually a Solaris problem...and from the recaps, I didn't miss much. No big announcements, and no Zune Mobile...but they did feature some cool shots of the Samsung Omnia...and talked about some cool sounding gadgetry to come. So it looks like Balmer took notes yesterday on how to give a boring keynote...oh well...I'll keep watching both companies and others for cool new gadgets.

--tayme

Interestingly enough, the "final" release of Live Essentials are all the exact same as the last RC release.  When you run the setup, there's nothing to update.

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What do you think about apparent double speed of Windows 7 in comparison to Vista in this article http://tinyurl.com/9zg7jb

Went... it's pretty comprehensive. As for the files transfer rate, I'll have to agree.

djRob

What's most interesting is that despite all the Microsoft bashers talking about how much faster Windows XP was than Vista, Windows XP was fastest on exactly NONE of the 23 tests done on either test computer and was generally the slowest of the three operating systems..

Maybe we could start a petition to get Infoworld to bring back honest editors?

That keynote was 100 times worse than Apple's. What a joke. Then again, it is Microsoft. "Truly pathetic." - (tm Microsoft)

The most amusing thing was how all you Microsoft fanboys built this up as being a big keynote. Microsoft showing off this and that. And it was a total boring snooze.

What you guys have to remember is to lower your expectations. Because Microsoft is always bound to disappoint.

Paul, what's the matter with the link for "Windows Home Server news"?

No surprise that Paul Thurrott claims that the Mac address was "no excitement" but fails to note that the Microsoft keynote as being "incredibly boring".

After all, he likes to make positive Windows vs Mac comparisons.

I mean, the Apple keynote was not exactly inspiring (new MacBook Pro late out of the gate and fixed software packages) but WTF the MS keynote was basically here's a public beta and look how many X-boxes we have sold!

ZZzzZZZZzzz

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Pics of Charlotte Jones or ban!

I saw the Keynote and I felt that Steve Ballmer upstaged Phil Schiller's keynote. I felt the Microsoft keynote was informative and a lot more lively than the snorefest that Schiller gave. Schiller gave a glorified slideshow with some demos. Boring. Microsoft gave us a working version of Windows 7, Windows Live Essentials, videos with products, showed the hardware diversity, new services, and new stuff for Xbox. I really did like the small Surface demo. I could see the school and college potential for that device.

I pretty much called it. Without Steve Jobs as the pitchman, Apple loses all its style and its signature character. Schiller doesn't have the "IT" quality to be an effective pitchman.

While not very exciting, it was a pretty decent and average keynote. Not much different than Bill Gates's typical keynote speeches.

I wasn't surprised about the lack of Zune Mobile, Zune Xbox,  as it is supposed to debut in late 09. Overall, I have to give this one to Ballmer, barely.

So, who will be a "sissy" and install 7 on a  virtual and who will be "manly" and install it on standalone hardware? I think I'll go the hardware route...

--tayme

Double Speed of 7 sure.  Vista now faster than XP?  I guess he would first have to explain how Vista SP1 suddenly got faster from his last review where Vista SP1 was trounced XP.

blogs.zdnet.com/hardware

Has there been yet another "performance update" to Vista post SP1?  Did XP SP3 slow XP down?  I had read that SP3 actually sped up XP.

"o, who will be a "sissy" and install 7 on a  virtual and who will be "manly" and install it on standalone hardware?"

VM the whole way for me.  The best place for Windows is behind VWware.  

If you are going to run 7 as your OS then put it on hardware, if you want to check it out...VM....on VMware.

"I think yesterday Apple started the nail in the coffin of Keynotes and MS finished driving it in tonight."

I think Mike predicted that troll a couple days ago when he said that all of a sudden that Apple users, because Jobs did do a keynote, would say that keynotes would all of a sudden be no big deal.

I tried installing Win7 to hardware last night. Worked much like my Vista SP1 experience -  I installed it manually (when SP1 wouldn't show up on WinUpdate even though my machine didn't have any of the conditions that MS listed as a cause), and after an hour or so, it failed & rolled back with no indication as to why in the event viewer (there was a filename listed called "empty.txt" in one entry, but it was no longer there after rollback)

Thing about that is, it takes a long time for me to try something like this (took a month after SP1 went to universal release before I risked wasting my time on an update attempt) when they hide details as to the problem.

@subzero, what exactly did MS show that you can buy today?  A beta of Windows 7?  Yet another Windows Mobile phone in the sea of WM phones?

Apple's keynote was boring yes, but out of it came stuff you can put your hands on today (or in the case of iLife 09 at the end of Jan) if you want it.

I read a good article yesterday about Apple wanting to get out of Macworld mainly because they are such control freaks, which I agree and that what they gave at Macworld was what they promised the event organizers and nothing more.  The article said that Apple wants to control their press releases as in what, when and how.  Which correctly pointed out the do except for Macworld.  

Something else I did not know is that the 25th anniversary of the Mac in Jan 24th and the article speculated that Apple will host a event around that time to release Mac updates that most thought would come out at Macworld.  Again the what, when and how controlled by Apple, which would seem plausible.  

@Master3 - Nope, that was me in the Apple Tax thread. Its a given...if Apple does not do it or allow users to do it, its not cool.

--tayme

@Lindy - "Again the what, when and how controlled by Apple, which would seem plausible.  "

Which is alos how they treat their customers that use many of their products. I'm not saying that is good or bad...just that it is Apple's business model.

--tayme

@tayme I am not saying its good or bad either.  I think they are control freaks and that mostly stems from Jobs, which is bad in most cases.

However I think tight control of the OS and Hardware, drivers etc is something that can be argued as good in the case of Joe User.  Windows must be made to run on lots of hardware and MS does not have control of that which can/has caused problems in the past.

As far as controlling their press releases, I think every company would like to have that control.  Apple has that now, when they announce a press release they get the IT press flocking.....right now.  Someday that might not be true, so they should use it now while they have it and use it wisely.  

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"what exactly did MS show that you can buy today?"

The majority of products are not available to buy today.  Most will be available around the summer time for back-to-school, which leads into the holiday season.

BTW:  The Vaio P looks nifty, as does the Webbie camcorder.

Also, BTW:  The 17" Macbook and iLife '09 is available for preorder only.  It is NOT available for sale now.

Lindy, most of the things at CES are months out at best.  That's the nature of the show.  However, the MacBook Wheel is at least 3-15 months out ;)

While the Vaio P is cool, I'm looking at the OQO Model 2+.  The pricing is now much more competitive.

Why don't you comment on how boring the Windows CES keynote was. Nothing special was announced. Live, we knew about. Windows 7, we knew about. I find it very hypocritical to call every Apple Keynote that doesn't revolutionize the consumer electronics world boring, and then not hold MS to at least the same standards.

@rkpatrick

If you are doing an upgrade make sure to uninstall your anti-virus or any software that might be locking files.

"The 17" Macbook and iLife '09 is available for preorder only.  It is NOT available for sale now."

I knew about iLife 09 not being available until Jan 31st, because I will pick it up.  I would never buy a notebook bigger than Macbook.  

If I were to pick a Windows notebook I would go with a Sony Z series.  A bit pricey ($1499-$3399) but I have played with one and they are super nice.  The new Sony Netbook looks nice, comes with 2gig of RAM and a 160gig drive...and Vista, but its pricey as well $899 I think, and I doubt I will ever own something that small that would be hard for me to type on.

@Dipsh....when I can I get that surface stuff?  It was in the latest Bond movie, I think.  It was very cool in the movie.

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>>No surprise that Paul Thurrott claims that the Mac address was "no excitement" but fails to note that the Microsoft keynote as being "incredibly boring".<<

Agreed.

>>I saw the Keynote and I felt that Steve Ballmer upstaged Phil Schiller's keynote. I felt the Microsoft keynote was informative and a lot more lively than the snorefest that Schiller gave.<<

Are the fanboys now arguing about who gives the better presentation.  Talk about no life...

>>Pics of Charlotte Jones<<

images.dailytech.com/.../10026_large_Charlotte_Jones_Presents_Windows_7.jpg

www.blogcdn.com/.../keynote-0184-ballmer.jpg

On MS hardware problems:

>>Q: Do you own a 30GB Zune?

Bach: I do, actually. It turns out my daughter has it, and she didn’t have it with her on the 31st. So it was fine.

Q: There are people who look at that last week and then make the connection to the Xbox 360 problems, and say, “Do these guys really know what they’re doing in consumer electronics?” What do you say to that?

Bach: I say to it, look, it’s an unfortunate thing that happened, we’re certainly not excited about it. It’s the type of thing that can happen in a complex product. You wait a day, and it’s fine. The two things aren’t even vaguely related.<<

@Ocean - You still harping on the Zune outage? Talk about no life...

--tayme

>>Q: I went to Macworld right before this, and one of the things that struck me was the energy around the iPhone app ecosystem. It actually reminded me, frankly, of Windows. How are you going to deal with that on the Windows Mobile side.

Bach: It’s one of those ironies. We have a great app ecosystem. There’s something like 20,000 apps on Windows Mobile. So it’s not for lack of applications. The thing that Apple did – which we did on Xbox, so it’s not some big, new thing – is they created a specific marketplace for people to buy apps in.

That’s work we have to reflect on and decide how to address it going forward. We have a very vibrant development environment. That’s not the issue. It’s ease of purchase that is the difference between the two things, and that’s something we have to address.

Q: With the iPhone, Apple is combining the music side with the phone side. It’s all becoming one big offering. How are you going to counter that?

Bach: Those are things I can’t talk about.

Q: Are you going to try, or do you think you have what you need with what you have now?

Bach: Let me say it this way: I think certainly, when it comes to competing with iPhone, RIM, others in that space, I think we absolutely have the assets we need. Putting those together in the right combinations for consumers, that what’s fun.<<

Compare the 17" MBP to a Sony Vaio VGN-FW290 series, almost same screen (16.4" vs. 17"), full 1920x1080 display, upgradable to 8GB DDR2-800 RAM. The VAIO can be fully maximized with 8GB RAM and 512MB discrete ATI GPU and comparable HDD AND a BD-R/RE drive for about $2,100. The VAIO equivalent of the base model MBP with 2.66GHz C2D, 4GB DDR2-800 RAM, 320GB 5400rpm HDD and 1920x1080 screen comes out to $1,600 - that is including a rewritable BD drive. The VAIO is also drop dead gorgeous, and almost identical weight and battery life as the MBP.

Can you say effin' Apple tax?

"when I can I get that surface stuff?  It was in the latest Bond movie, I think.  It was very cool in the movie."

I'm waiting for the remote controlled 7 Series myself.

Tayme, actually it was Todd Bishop of the Seattle Tech Daily.

Thanks for playing.

* Yawn! *

@Ocean - But it is *you* dwelling on it and trolling a website to post it in an attempt to make yourself appear informed. Several of us have suggested this already, but why not get your own blog to repost that kind of stuff. Then people can read it and give you all the credit that you deserve!

Thanks for entertaining us...

--tayme

CES and macworld were both huge snoozefests.  Too bad paul's too committed a partisan to call both that.  

What is the morning line on whether Microsoft gets to keep the primary CES keynote slot, or whether it starts rotating around the industry?

That's assuming, of course, that CES doesn't join the great trade show die off.

"Can you say effin' Apple tax?"

Or you could call the Sony offer a "We feel sorry for you running Vista rebate" "Or a sorry we cant provide OS X with our computers discount"

Its all how you look at it.

Microsoft seems to have released a list of devices supported by device stage in windows 7 here.

www.microsoft.com/.../devices.aspx

"What is the morning line on whether Microsoft gets to keep the primary CES keynote slot, or whether it starts rotating around the industry?"

Excellent question. Especially after snorefests like this one.

Microsoft isn't the 900-pound gorilla in the Entertainment room these days. Time for some new blood.

robertsjoe and Ocean trolling yet again!  Maybe they should get a blog.

@ Lindy:

Are you for real? When shown the most blatant example Apple's price-gouging on similar spec hardware, you have the gall to suggest Sony is discounting Vista?? You are truly shameless. Happy trails paying a grand more for subsidizing Apple's aluminum unibody manufacturing gimmick.

One item that didn't make the keynote but was announced is an update to Windows Live Search Mobile. This is the free app for Windows Mobile (and to a limited degree Blackberry) that lets you do voice driven search (say what you want to find) that lets you: Find local businesses and restaurants, and click to call them

Get turn by turn driving directions

Explore interactive maps with satellite imagery

View current traffic information

Find the cheapest nearby gas stations

See movie showtimes by theaters

The new version adds location based info for phones that don't have a GPS (it already supported location based info on GPS equipped phones), predictive text input for when you aren't using the voice input feature and Bird's Eye View in addition to the existing map and aerial views.

It's available now by going to wls.live.com from your phone.

Also announced at CES was Microsoft Research's new SongSmith application that "Helps Novice Musicians Discover Their Inner Songwriters"

Basically, you sing into your computer's microphone and the software creates and lets you tweak the background arrangement for a 5-piece band.

The demo version is availabe for download at research.microsoft.com/songsmith

If you're looking for information on the Live Search Mobile family, there's an info page at http://livesearchmobile.com/

@mikegalos - That has been available for a week or so, I think. I downloaded on my Omnia - version 3.5.8198.0, is that the one? It works great!!! I have used the click to call several times. Now, what I want is the shake my phone to scroll through the responses...oh, wait, no I don't. That is one of the reasons that I didn't get an iPhone...that is just too cutesy for me. My daughter thinks its cool, though. She'd get an iPhone in a second, if I'd subsidize the AT&T contract.

Unfortunately, until Verizon frees up the GPS service, I am limited to inputting my location by hand, but that works great too. Stupid Verizon...rumor is that they are going to do that soon.

--tayme

@Raaj yes I am serious not about thinking that Sony is cheaper because they can only give you Vista, that was sarcasm.

I am serious in that some people want to run OS X, and the hardware is way less important to them, to the extent its the thing the OS runs on.  If you want OS X and not Vista then the fact that the Sony notebooks are cheaper really does not matter does it?  Like I said its all how you look at it.  For you I guess its all about the gadget its features and its price....then the software, which is ok.

When I got my Macbook, 11/07 time frame I was looking at 13.3inch notebooks that had Wireless N and Bluetooth.  The Dell MX1300 or whatever was only $100 cheaper at the time compared to the Macbook, and the Sony TZ series was way more expensive than my Macbook.  The ones I saw that I wanted were $1800ish.  So pulling specs/price out of the air today does not mean they will hold water even tomrrow.

tayme

Yeah. I think of Live Search Mobile as THE must have mobile app. Say what you're looking for, map it and get turn-by-turn directions along with current traffic conditions. All for free and without being tied to one device or one carrier.

(I think the announcement was at the show despite the download showing up early - at least LiveSide it as a show release)

Hey Paul, during the keynote, the first lady on stage that was demoing stuff talked about "play 2" and she said "or to my xbox" take a listen, and if she just didn't mess up then we know that play 2 will be coming to the xbox.

also the netfix on windows mobile look interesting, since I uverse and can control my DVR from my phone it would be awesome to line up some shows while I'm out an about and see something I want to watch. very cool. it's those little connections that make everything much more enjoyable.

@ Lindy,

If you didn't pay attention, the Windows Live Essentials are available now. Its free, by the way for Windows XP, Vista, and Windows 7 users. Thats more than what Apple is offering new and available now. Also for the Technet and MSDN customers, they have full access to Windows 7 Beta 1 and Windows Server 2008 R2 beta 1. Windows Server 2008 R2 beta 1 is also available people participating in Microsoft Connect.

@Tayme,

As for me, I'll be installing it on my home desktop's second hard drive. I'm also planning a hard drive upgrade for my Fujitsu Lifebook, to run Windows 7 and Vista.

@Raaj

Great job on the comparisons between Sony and Apple equivalent hardware. Once again, Lindy and other Mac Fanatics has failed to answer my question about the hardware.

Hardware for computers have been dropping for decades now, except for Apple. It is nothing more than artifical inflation and price gouging. Unless Apple can prove that the same processors, memory, motherboards, displays, speakers, keyboard, trackpad, ports, battery, and other components are manufactured specifically for Apple cost significantly more and offer a significant performance gain, then its nothing more than artifical price inflation or an Apple Tax. Yet all the Mac Fanatics are in denial. Either that or they are way overcharging for Leopard. Considering the over 250 plus patches in 2008, thats still less stable than Vista.

Many of the reports noted reduce or minimal applause for the new Macbook Air and its $2799 price point.

I wonder how many of DRWAM's legendary $400 notebooks you could buy without outspending for one Macbook Air? 6 I believe?

tayme

Actually, I just checked and the version I just downloaded is 4.0.12158.1 so it looks like Live Search Mobile is now up to version 4. Time to upgrade that old 3.5 version!

@reddragon72 - Yeah, I'll be getting that NetFlix app, too. When I first saw the screenshot, I was thinking to myself...Cool, streaming movies to my phone!!! Not that I would get too much of a kick to watch a movie on a 3 inch screen. But queue managment will have to do for now!

--tayme

@mikegalos - Cool...thanks, I'm on it now!

--tayme

I guess WLEssentials was released with all its bug and new quirks-disguised-as-features?

I like WLEssentials, especially WLPG and WLM, and wish some of the latests bugs had been fixed.

Subzero

You're missing the "Apple Fan's Guide to minimizing Microsoft announcments" key rules:

If Microsoft announces a beta, say "it's only a beta"

If Microsoft announces a release, say "that's nothing new, it's been in beta for a while now"

It works well since Apple typically beta tests their major products by selling them as released products and issuing service packs for six months.

Comparing CES and Macworld Keynotes:

They were equally unexciting or exciting depending on what side of the fence you sit on.

The main reason that Macworlds was more of a "snooze-fest" than CES is that Apple has built up a reputation of exciting keynotes, and therefore the difference is so much more pronounced.  Microsoft rarely bring out anything unexpected and revolutionary that hasn't been talked about plenty beforehand.

In terms of meeting mainstream expectations of the keynote, Apple disappointed whereas Microsoft probably hit expectations pretty closely.

techfan

Remember that in a Software + Service world like Windows Live Essentials, a lot of bugs get fixed without updating the client bits. If you're still hitting bugs, report them but I've seen the ones I had in beta fixed by server updates.

truffoo0

One other big difference in expectations beyond that is that Apple has traditionally only done major announcements at a few major events per year. Microsoft does major announcements every few weeks and ones at the level of app refreshes several times per week.

"It works well since Apple typically beta tests their major products by selling them as released products and issuing service packs for six months."

I can agree with that.  I also think that Vista was a beta test that people paid for.  It helped greatly to flush out bugs so that Windows 2008 server (same kernel Vista SP1) was done when it shipped.  In fact if you see that Windows 7 is enthusiastically adopted compared to Vista, and there will plenty of reports on whether this happens or not, you could easily argue, as some have (Paul?) that Windows 7 is Vista done right, or Vista finished.

@subzero what is it I did not answer?  Did you go back and read that article you linked about OS X using all 8 cores on a Mac Pro and that specific apps were faster on the 8 core box, vs a 4 core?  You linked I only copy and pasted proof from it.  

To your point is hardware that runs Windows cheaper in most cases....YES most of the time it is.  I have said that already.  There is no question at all about it.  If you want to run Windows and you can find machines that will do it cheaper, lots of them.

Conversely I and others have shown you examples of hardware at the same cost or more that Apple products.  The Dell 7400 workstation is way more expensive than the MacPro and the HP equivalent is as well.  This Sony Z notebook 13inch....

www.sonystyle.com/.../CategoryDisplay

Starts at $1499 and goes up to $3399.  Can you find other 13inch Windows notebooks cheaper?  Yep.  Is that more expensive than a Macbook?  Yep.  Is it "Tax" if you choose to purchase a Dell 7400 or Sony Z notebook, when there are cheaper alternatives?  I mean you have said your self that people should not buy Apple products in this economy, so I guess those two I listed should not be purchase either using your socialist/communist logic?

Using your logic why would anyone buy a 5 series BMW?  I mean a Honda Accord or Toyota Camry are fine cars, that are about the same size and if you are following the speed limit like any socialist should they will get you from point A to point B in same amount of time right?  At what 1/2.....1/3 the cost?  Man in this economy they should stop making BMW's.....according to your logic that is.  Oh and according MS they are the Toyota of operating systems so they got your back.

Mike is as big a troll as that joe guy,

Lindy

"if you are following the speed limit like any socialist "

Re "socialist": You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

"I wonder how many of DRWAM's legendary $400 notebooks you could buy without outspending for one Macbook Air? 6 I believe?"

Setup a table in a mall in any major city in the US.  Put DRWAM's Acer note book on the table and a Macbook Air next to it.  Put up a sign..

"They are free pick the one you want, but only one."

I am going to bet that the Acer gets picked less.  Just a guess and nothing against your $400 Acer Doc, I am sure it wont rust, bust or collect dust its just that dam good:)

>>"It works well since Apple typically beta tests their major products by selling them as released products and issuing service packs for six months."

I can agree with that.  I also think that Vista was a beta test that people paid for.<<

So that's just the state of technology, eh?

@Mike the definition from a search I get...

a theory or system of social organization that advocates the vesting of the ownership and control of the means of production and distribution, of capital, land, etc., in the community as a whole.

2. procedure or practice in accordance with this theory.

3. (in Marxist theory) the stage following capitalism in the transition of a society to communism, characterized by the imperfect implementation of collectivist principles.

What I mean by it...is that Sub said a few days ago that people should not buy Apple products in this economy.  As in he thinks we should not be allowed to.  The stuff that Paul posted the other day inferred that as well with this statement from MS ""Around the globe, people need to balance the interests they have with the realities of the economy."

I need to balance my interests with MY economy realities, not with the rest of the world.  Subzero may think we should ban or stop selling Apple products because some are having economic problems, but to me that is called socialism. ........"control of the means of production and distribution, of capital, land, etc., in the community as a whole".

@ Mike his exact comment from the other day (man this site need a search engine...sharepoint???)

"As for the auto bail out and livng beyond our means. Apple is a perfect example of living beyond our means. Do you really need to spend $1,200? Or could you buy a cheaper machine that does the same thing."

Living beyond our means because we buy a $1200 computer.  Yeah ok Joseph.

Lindy,

The question was:

Setup a table in a mall in any major city in the US.  Put SIX of DRWAM's Acer notebooks on the table and one Macbook Air next to it.  Put up a sign..

"They are free. Pick either the Apple with no drives and little I/O or all six Acers. You are free to give away any extra Acers you don't need  to friends or family or just return up to five of them for a full cash refund"

Lindy,

So, what does that have to do with obeying speed laws while driving?

Are you saying Apple users are above the law? Or that they should be?

Or do you just have a bunch of words you like to throw out at people as generic "insults" (I'm assuming you think being a Socialist is an insult which hundreds of millions of people would strenuously argue.)

The Apple store has refurbished Mac Airs for $999

1.6GHz Intel Core 2 Duo

13.3-inch glossy widescreen display

2GB memory

80GB 4200-rpm PATA hard drive

Built-in 802.11n Wi-Fi and Bluetooth 2.1 + EDR

Built-in iSight Camera

@Mike daily you prove your self to be a tool.  

Your analogy of the Acer and Air are dead wrong.  His argument is about price.  My counter is that price is not the only factor, its a big one for some, but people choose differently for different reasons.  Personally the Acers I have looked at/used look/feal like cheap junk.  Many will look right past that to the price tag and nothing is wrong with either.

Do the same in the parking lot with the BMW 5 and a Toyota Camry.  I think the BMW will chosen more often.

No Apple users are not above the law.  I guess you just cant keep up with my sarcasm.  A good socialist would bow to whom ever is running the show and buy the products their fearless leaders tell them to buy "for the good of the economy/people" and of course the would follow the speed limit "for the good of the poeple".  I poking fun at his logic.

I dont consider it an insult, its a form of government that I dont want to live under..  If that is your choice then move out of the US because the last time I checked the US was not a socialist country.  Although I think that recent moves by the Bush administration look like the government wants to socialize our financial system rather than create sensible laws and enforce them, but that is a topic that I am sure would start a fire here.

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@Mike: I, as well as others, have sent feedback to MS regarding WLEssentials bugs and/or feature requests and nothing has come out of it.

As of the release of the final (out of beta) version of WLM, I haven't experienced some of the bugs though. For example, when you have messages in thread view, WLM will revert to individual view. The US Hols cal in WLM disappears. Some messages posted on Newsgroups done make it to the client side (though messages appear on the ui version on microsoft.com).

I have to say, not counting some of the missing/removed features, I think MS hit a homer with WLM. I love it! Like Paul said, after installing AV, it's WLEssentials that I install next.

Mike, Google Mobile app on the iPhone does the same as Live Search Mobile and also uses voice recognition. It's prett handy when driving to keep hands free, although yuou need to hold it to your ear and talk. I got directions toa Nenz dealer in North jersey using it, then found a place to take the wife for lunch.

Ocean, my Acer has better hardware than that refurbed MBA, but does not have a built in camera. The screen is bigger and the carn thing actually looks very nice, not cheap. Obviously, I would rather have a MBA if I could tolerate a smaller screen, but my wife has presbyopia, or is getting farsighted, and the kids like the bigger screen and are used to Windows. But dang, does it work well. It's kinds shocking considering the price. Coming from me, a guy that owns a Mac Pro Tower because I demand power, that is truly a compliment. Go Acer!

Sorry for the typos. Let see if I can post the sack that we used to collect walnuts in our backyard, or our ***, which is green checkered. Will it get edited out?

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DRWAM

Yep, the Google Mobile iPhone app is a fair 1st try at catching up with where Live Search Mobile was a couple of years ago. The difference being that Live Search Mobile is already up to version 4 and works on lots of phones and lots of carriers.

Why do I get the feeling that mikegalos could honestly claim Windows Notepad to be a better featured text editor than Mac OS X's Text Edit?

The Google app ain't flawless, that's for sure. I thought that I carefully annunciated but got incorrect results. Close enough to the desired word, but wrong enough to be a useless search. This happens more frequently than desired.

I can't believe that the compound word of nut and sack gets filtered, but someone posted dipshit and it was not filtered. Go figure! Also, my fish is not cooperating for an avatar pic, but I am still trying.

One other thing. that Acer computer actually does run very well with Vista, so I can only imagine how well Windows 7 would run on it. It's fine with Vista, but my quest for light speed has me curious. I really am getting a little excited about 7. It sorta reminds me of 7 of 9 ;)

Well, in the mobile space at least, Palm just outdid both MS and Apple with the announcement of the new Palm Pre and new OS.  MS better get moving on the Zune Phone or WinMo 7 if it wants to be at all relevant in that space now.  And from all accounts, the new Palm is a pretty damn good iPhone killer.

Dipsh

And the new Palm Pre has Cut/Copy/Paste and a real keyboard just like my Windows Mobile device.

It'll be interesting to see how what they do for their developer program since they stressed developers at the launch.

@Lindy,

You have definitely jumped the shark. Never have I ever said people shouldn't buy Apple products. EVER.

I have said that I personally wouldn't buy Apple products because I think the price point is too expensive.

My only argument against Apple is that I feel strongly that their price point is artifically inflated. As an second generation American, I would never subscribe to any Marxist or Socialistic policies. However, your ignorance about Socialism just shows strongly. Did I advocate the complete and total takeover by the government to take over Apple? No. Did I ever advocate that every computer should be sold at the same price point? No.  Did I ever indicate that Apple should ever stop doing business or be shutdown? No.

Also in my links about the Mac Pro, it showed a minor improvement over the previous model. Not enough to justify the additional expense. Re-read my statement and you'll see that was my point.

If anything, your advocacy of an almost totalitarian company that tells you exactly what you need, limits your hardware diversification, restricts what gets produced on that platform, and artificially inflates the price is  suspect and questionable. Yet you ridicule advocates like me who value freedom of choice, hardware diversity, a platform that any software can be made should be suspect and questionable. If anyone is acting contrary to free market principles and less than democratic business practices, just take a good look at your friends at Apple and yourself.

That Palm Pre does look cool. Some of the features are sure to rival the iPhone.  I would love to get my fingers on one of them to compare it to my Omnia.

BTW - I thought that I read somewhere that only the forst so many people to sign on get to download the public beta. Anybody know what that number is? They also said available on 1/9...does that mean at midnight:01 tonight, Redmond time?

--tayme

Tayme,

The number is 2.5 M.  

Yawn!

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