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Microsoft: Seriously, we're listening to your Windows 7 feedback (Part 2: The Quickening)

LOL. Microsoft is now so hell bent on proving that it is listening to user feedback that it has actually published a comprehensive list of the changes it is making to Windows 7 between the Beta release and the coming Release Candidate (RC). The changes are the result of Microsoft "working through all the feedback [they've] received on Windows 7" so they can "deliver a refined RC where the changes we made are all the reflection of feedback we have received."

So it must be a pretty impressive list of huge changes, right? I mean, the dangerously deficient default Taskbar view where multiple sub-windows are all hidden under a single obscure icon, thus uncluttering the system while simultaneously making it harder to use, has been changed, right? Right?

Not exactly.

Instead, what we get is a laundry list of tiny changes, much like one of the "300+ NEW FEATURES!" lists that Apple makes every time it ships a new version of Mac OS X. "It's like getting a new computer ... for your computer!"

Anyhoo. Obviously, any improvements are welcome. And some of what they're changing is certainly valuable. Some of it, however, is silly. I'd point out this little bit of "doing the opposite of what they should be doing" as an example:

3. Needy State

“Needy window” is the internal term we use for a window that requires your attention. Since the ‘90s, the taskbar has always provided some type of visualization to alert the customer to this state such as by flashing the button. A careful balance must be struck between providing information and not irritating the customer. With the new taskbar, we received feedback that Outlook reminders or a Messenger chat sometimes went unnoticed because needy windows were too subtle. For example, Mudassir opened a bug to say “The flashing is not obvious enough to get user's attention. Sometime I don't even notice it. It flashes for a little bit and then stops. If I am away the icon flashes and stops before I come back. The icon is not noticeable.” We’ve made three changes that should address the issue. First, we changed the flashing animation curve to make it more noticeable (from a sine to a sawtooth wave). Second, we used a bolder orange color. Finally, we wanted to double the number of flashes which is currently set to three. As a nod to Windows 7, we decided to go with seven flashes instead.

Um. Right. As any Windows Live Messenger user will tell you, what we really need is a way to turn off the flashing "needy" notification, not make it more prominent. In fact, it's so annoying in Messsenger--I don't think it ever stops blinking until you address it explicitly--that I'm ready to stop using the application. So ... they're doing the reverse. They're making it more annoying. Nice!

Here's the thing: I have a fix and it actually addresses all usage needs, not just my personal preference (nice that Mudassir over there is getting Windows 7 to change for him specifically, by the way). But they won't do it, because this is in fact an actual change to the system, the type of thing they aren't doing: Just make the blinking configurable. Put in a switch. If you want it to be worse, make it worse. If you want it off, turn it off. But Windows 7 isn't about doing things the right way. Windows 7 is about simplification. And adding that bit of UI would add clutter to the system. It will never happen.

You see this in so many places in Windows 7. The tray area that hides application icons but doesn't give you a way to stop them from running in the first place. The cleaner taskbar that hides windows under a single icon all while making new window opening undiscoverable . Etc.

Still, check out the list. There are a slew of changes coming in the RC. As we expected.

Comments

 

weedmonk said:

Wow, I was thinking the exact opposite.  These are very functional changes and they aren't marketing this as new features. I think you might trying to underplay these to validate your blanket generalization which is losing water.

You need to climb down and give them some credit here IMO. About 4 on that list were part of my personal feedback which was pleasantly surprising.

February 26, 2009 9:05 AM
 

Dipsh t Admin said:

I agree with weedmonk.  Paul, you're trying too hard in this case.  And a clarification.  You say this is a "comprehensive" list.  It is not.  They explicitly say this is a "sampling", which is not meant to be comprehensive.

If there is one thing that I've learned from reading the blog, is that this stuff is hard.  A minor change or a change that an individual might think is the "correct" way to do things may not be possible because of a a slew of reasons that the individual is not aware of.  Will a change cause problems for corporate installations?  Will there be security implications?  And, are there other blocker bugs in the queue that can cause real problems in certain cases that are just more important than a smaller change an individual might be suggesting?  They have to ship the software eventually.  And, they can't let features out of the bag too early.  The thing is, this is no different than the way any other software is developed.

February 26, 2009 9:20 AM
 

nutts said:

Why can't they do some sort of 'badge' system like you have on Macs, where a number in red on the taskbar application icon indicates at a glance how many new emails or IM messages etc you have.

Also for each application, like for example Skype, in the preferences you can set if the application icon 'bounces' on the dock to get your attention for each notification type (user login, first message, message etc) and how many bounces etc. And you can of course disable the bounces and just have the 'badge'.

February 26, 2009 9:41 AM
 

Rasken said:

This whole blog entry read to me like you're airing your minor annoyances with Windows 7.  

This goes to illustrate the classic problem that Microsoft faces when they make a UI change.   They can't please everyone.  If they please the majority of the people, then good for them.

As well, you're a smart guy.   You've always been able to find ways to tweak your system to eliminate those annoyances when you run into them, Mussadir might not be as able to do than then us.

One last thing..  With all the airing of the grevances, it really sounds like you would like to have the Vista UI layed over the Windows 7 guts.   Am I wrong in this assumption?

February 26, 2009 10:05 AM
 

lotsamystuff said:

Time for your medication, Mr. Thurrott.

February 26, 2009 10:34 AM
 

rjohn05 said:

Since Paul really wants them to change the task bar, he feels like they are not listening to him. I like the task bar. Is it different? Yes. It will take some getting used to just like the ribbon in office did. I think Paul needs to give the Windows 7 team some credit here. Just because they are not going to change the task bar or tray notification area does not mean they deserve to be pissed on.

February 26, 2009 10:36 AM
 

rjohn05 said:

I think these are some really good changes. Default .mov support is a big one in my personal opinion. And I do not see how Microsoft is marketing these as new features for the OS.

February 26, 2009 10:37 AM
 

BrightrevCarl said:

I agree with Raskin and I guess this proves the point I made over here:

community.winsupersite.com/.../microsoft-seriously-we-re-listening-to-your-windows-7-feedback.aspx

The Windows 7 default taskbar view is fine for new users.  In fact, I'd argue that it's better.  Maybe it's not OK for experienced users like yourself, but those are precisely the people who know how to change it.

February 26, 2009 10:39 AM
 

stimshady said:

i like the new taskbar, a lot.  it's way of the future and they ain't gonna change it... so get used to it and enjoy.

i think not embracing new technology is a sign of... getting old!!!!!!!!!! ;)

February 26, 2009 10:50 AM
 

tayme said:

@Paul - You've "jumped the shark" on this taskbar thing. You rmind me of those people that whine when they need to learn a new way of doing things. They are generally from the older generation, like you and I. I have become accustomed to the new taks bar and tend to like it better than the old version.

--tayme

February 26, 2009 10:50 AM
 

DRWAM said:

All of you are doing it, and so Paul is also allowed to exercise is First Amendment rights.

Now I will. I'm ticked off at Google [again] because I just used my browser to sign in and check Gmail and now notice that Gmail decided to block ALL my WindowsLive mail as spam!!!! I never turned it on and never choose to block anything. I have been checking it on my iPhone for months, so I never noticed what it was doing. Obviously, google is not playing nice with MS. Stuff in the Gmail spam folder gets automatically deleted in 30 days, so who knows what it blocked. frakin jerks!

February 26, 2009 11:30 AM
 

lotsamystuff said:

"All of you are doing it, and so Paul is also allowed to exercise is First Amendment rights."

Absolutely. And we're allowed to gently tell him that his rail car has slipped the tracks.

His obsession with this non-issue isn't that much different in tone and tenor from his Safari "review" where he spends as much time snidely chiding Apple (and those who use their software) as he does actually reviewing the product*. His resistance to any kind of paradigm-shifting change is clear, but his rants are baffling. He's starting to sound like the crazy Uncle at the family picnic who b1tches about how much mayonnaise is in the potato salad.

At least (much like the Uncle) he's entertaining. But (also like the Uncle) it's hard to take him seriously.

*In fact, I'd wager that he probably spent more time writing the "review" than he did actually using Safari.

February 26, 2009 12:08 PM
 

techfan said:

@nutts: I thought about the badges, too. I think that would be a better visual indicator of the number of windows/tabs opened.

Paul Thurrott complaining about the taskbar: *sigh*

Are there others complaining about the taskbar as much as el Paul is? I mean, I read a lot of Windows-related news sites and it's here on the SuperSite Blog (and the site proper) where I almost always read something about the taskbar in a negative way.

I cannot wait to get my hands on the new Windows 7 taskbar.

I love that WMP 12 will support .MOV files. Opening QuickTime in XP is much slow and I have a lo of .mov files.

February 26, 2009 12:10 PM
 

de Silentio said:

Paul, not that you listen to your readers (much like Microsoft allegedly not listening to their beta testers *cough* hypocrite *cough*) but I am compelled to agree with the rest of the posters here in stating that you have gone over the edge. (or over the hill, I haven't decided which one)  

February 26, 2009 12:17 PM
 

cgdams said:

Like most who already commented on this post, I do like the new taskbar in it's default setting significantly better than the labeled look we know from Vista.

And that's a result of actually using it, because after reading about the new task bar and it's behavior for the first time, i couldn't imagine liking it. That changed in the first two days of using it, and after 4 weeks of usage, i don't see it changing back any time soon.

February 26, 2009 12:31 PM
 

yipcanjo said:

Simmer down, Paul :)

February 26, 2009 12:41 PM
 

DRWAM said:

Holy cow lotsa! I was typing on my old G4 AGP [with an upgraded CPU] and your post reminded me that I can try Safari 4 beta on it. Thanks dude...and away we go [faster]!

February 26, 2009 2:26 PM
 

yert said:

I haven't looked over the list just yet, but one of the changes is native .mov support. No more codex packs maybe? In any case, we won't need QuickTime anymore. Yay!

February 26, 2009 2:42 PM
 

Microsoft: Seriously, we’re listening to your Windows 7 feedback (Part 2: The Quickening) « Windows 7 Help - Tutorials, News, Software & More! said:

Pingback from  Microsoft: Seriously, we’re listening to your Windows 7 feedback (Part 2: The Quickening) «  Windows 7 Help - Tutorials, News, Software & More!

February 26, 2009 3:19 PM
 

runner7775 said:

I think that everyone is getting a little too worked up over this.  Vista's development phase included a lot of feature changes during development, that were undue and it really didn't help their image in the end(with all the dropped features and such).  The Windows 7 development phase seems like a reasonable reaction.  I expect Windows 8 development to be more open than 7 yet less loose than Vista was.

February 26, 2009 3:25 PM
 

techdribble said:

I am not a fan of the new taskbar but having said that it wasnt difficult to get it and the quick launchbar into a more useable (for me) state.

Good to see they addressed the hide desktop items/gadgets issue.

Would like to switch of "favorites" and "Libraries" in Windows Explorer some of us are organised (on the PC anyway) and know where all our photos, music etc are and yes I am old and dont want to change :)

Still no sign of podcast support in WMP. No I dont want a zune (cant get them in Australia anyway) so I hope the WMP team catch onto this podcasting fad.

February 26, 2009 3:51 PM
 

Waethorn said:

"No more codex packs maybe? In any case, we won't need QuickTime anymore."

It all depends on which codecs Microsoft licensed.  .MOV files are just container files with a simple header.  They are not a video stream format.  Microsoft would have to license all of the codecs for inclusion in Windows.

February 26, 2009 4:07 PM
 

Waethorn said:

FYI:  Microsoft did license several older codecs long ago in prior Windows versions.  Some of those were Indeo, MPEG-4 Level 1-3 baseline profiles, and a few others that were also included in old versions of Quicktime.

February 26, 2009 4:13 PM
 

Waethorn said:

Hmmm....

I wonder if Microsoft is licensing the MOV file format in order to get a sublicense of MPEG-4 AVC/H.264 cheaper through Apple than directly from MPEG LA....

February 26, 2009 4:17 PM
 

shark47 said:

Paul's entitled to his opinion.

BTW, I'm one of the people who asked for "more annoying" needy Windows.

There's one thing, though. Windows 7, at this point, probably has 10 times as many users as all Linux builds combined. It's almost impossible for MS to address all the feedback. I think they're doing a fine job. I hope Media Center gets fixed, because that thing is waaaaaaaay too buggy.

I also think they should make the Zune player a part of the Windows Live suite.

February 26, 2009 5:05 PM
 

weedmonk said:

"I also think they should make the Zune player a part of the Windows Live suite."

Hmmmm. That would be very interesting.

February 26, 2009 6:57 PM
 

screechi0784 said:

I agree with most of you here. I think MS is making a big step forward of doing something with the feedback they get. I haven't followed Vista development as closely as 7, but I think that MS is listening and making some changes.  I think paul need to chill a little. I do understand that some of the new  changes in the taskbar are at first a bit hard to understand. But when you work with it a bit you can be as productive as you are in other versions on windows.

I hope firefox could make the necessary changes to their browser so it could display the same way IE does on the taskbar. Has any of you heard if they are planning on doing this?

February 26, 2009 8:02 PM
 

Victek said:

I've read every response above and not a single person addressed Paul's specific complaint, which is why not make something like icon flashing configurable?  It seems to me that the flexibility of Windows has been one of it's great strengths.  The simple solution to the fact that different people like the OS to behave in different ways is to make options configurable.  Does it seem unreasonable to want this?

February 26, 2009 9:16 PM
 

techdribble said:

@Victek yep that makes perfect sense. If people want advanced options make them visible eg have an advanced button rather than have people have to resort to hacks which may affect system stability which in turn reflects badly on windows.

February 26, 2009 9:48 PM
 

RunTimeError said:

Paul locked up the last post so...

Here we go again. Just like the Longhorn "train wreck", Paul is going to get his panties in a bunch over how MS is handling the next version of the OS.

Doesn't really matter though. He'll rant and rave until it's released and then he'll give the final product four out of five Paul Heads (c)(r)TM and go back to bashing Apple.

Fun stuff!

February 26, 2009 10:21 PM
 

arainla said:

I agree that the build is probably done.

But I think Microsoft is listening to some extent.

I have 2 laptops running Win7.

I just got a Dlink DNS-323 2 bay hard drive storage device.

Setting it up as iTunes server and secure site for my data was easy.

Windows 7 handles network drives so much better than XP.

But as I was using Microsoft SyncToy 2.0 after 5-10 minutes Windows 7 crashes with BSOD. This happened on both laptops.

After several tries at removing certain software, such as Cisco VPN client, I probably had the OS crash aboout 6-8 times.

I was worried that my new shared storage device may not work with Win7.

I searched a bit on the net but to no avail.

Suddenly I had a Windows 7 update appear pointing me to a KB fix.

I filled some info out and had a link in my email with a password and download link.

Installed it on one laptop and synced my files in 30-40 minutes and it didnt blink!

I installed on the other laptop and that one was working like a dream too.

This type of proactive support is excellent.

Maybe I should expect Win7 beta to not crash when accessing a shared drive.

But the fact that I had my issue addressed is very valuable to me and I give kudos to MS for it.

I think Paul may be hard on MS but if nobody was we would get bad software in general. I thank Paul for being the devils advocate and pushing MS to be a bit more nimble and faster to innovate.

February 26, 2009 11:33 PM
 

Angel Of Death said:

I have to chip in here and express my support for the new taskbar. I really like it and find it so much more productive than any previous version.

If you tend to have many windows open, your desktop is going to be cluttered, one way or the other. With pre-7 taskbars, it was still difficult to find the right window if you had many open, and had to resort to ALT-Tab or flip. Why take up space if you can combine Quick Launch with open windows? Want to quickly start a new session of an open program? OK, I agree that right click or drag on the task bar is not as quick as the Quick Launch, but hey, there are numerous other ways. IE and Explorer opens through keyboard short cuts, a new document is easily opened in Word, etc.

If you want windows to be simpler, why not make the simple choices? Don't get hung up on the things that are non-simple.

I believe that Windows is rapildy becoming a cutting edge OS, and I agree with the previous post; the direct feedback and support you get directly from the OS may not help you in 100% of all cases but it is stil top notch. That deserves some cred.

February 27, 2009 6:04 AM
 

Dipsh t Admin said:

screech, I hope Firefox inherits the jumplists as well.

February 27, 2009 7:28 AM
 

firas66 said:

I agree with weedmonk. Stop harping on the task bar, you're beginning to sound like a child.

February 27, 2009 7:34 AM
 

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