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Paul,

That's not quite fair. Four of those HP laptops would have been 96 cents more expensive than one 17" Mac Book Pro.  :-)

Flame War commencing in 5 ... 4 ... 3 ... 2 ... 1 ...

I think the Lauren ad is as much about the coolness factor of the Apple as it is about the tax.

I have yet to run across an Apple owner (not author or tester) that simply thinks his/her machine is better because its an Apple. Same with iPhone users - they find immense value in applications that fart or tell you how much to tip

Of course if I spent that much monet on a device that told me how much to tip on a $15.31 meal at Buffalo Wild Wings would talk the thing up until I was blue in the face.

In all fairness to Apple, the HP Lauren bought is nowhere near equivalent to the MacBook Pro. So I went to the HP site and customized a dv7t series machine to get as close to the MacBook as possible in components. The only thing I couldn't get is the 1920x1200 screen as HP would only offer a 1600x900 resolution display but everything else is either identical or nearly identical from a performance/features standpoint.

The cost of the HP machine: $1224.99. Let's make it an even $1400 to compensate for the resolution difference and you can still buy 2 equivalent HP laptops for every MacBook Pro. That's pretty amazing. At least in this case the Apple tax is real.

I like that Microsoft is finally hitting back with this ad, but the HP leaves a lot to be desired.

There is no way I would recommend anyone pick up a notebook based on the AMD Turion processor. Additionally, the gimped screen resolution and poor battery life should be key factors to an "average" consumer.

In my opinion, Microsoft should have used something more in the $1500 price range that could have competed spec for spec with the 17" MacBook Pro.

Such a pick wouldn't have been as dramatic as the $700 HP, but at least it would have been more accurate and fair --- and they still would have won the price war.

Is it a requirement for OEMs to have all those stickers? It's a pain stripping them out too.

On the comparison chart, what is the actual battery life time in reality? I know the HP is very likely wrong, but I can't believe that Apple one is anywhere near accurate either.

Nonetheless, it also goes towards the idea how much power does the typical human being need? Personally, I'm not the biggest fan of the Turion as I have one myself, but still, the difference in price there is stunning. People aren't made of money, especially this day in age, so there's no reason they wouldn't look at that HP one more than the Apple.

the problem simply is that the applie product line is not diverse enough to meet the needs of most people.  Want a 17 inch screen well you got to take hundreds of dollars of other hardware/functions you don't need.

Want a small screen with real 3D graphics, can't get that either....

If you don't match apples "Mold" for it's users you can't find a machine that matches what you need/want.

Apple hardware can't comprehend that someone might want a 17 inch machine with only a basic feature set.

Comparing a Sony device might be a little bit better in this area, since they do offer machines of equivalent specs.  For $1429, you can get a fully loaded AW series Vaio, with BluRay and HDMI, but a smaller screen (16.4 vs 17) and slightly lower resolution (1080 vs 1200).  So you could still buy nearly two.

Either way, it is all about the value proposition, which the MBP just can't compete on.  That doesn't invalidate the choice, but once again, this is just ONE ad of many.

I've got the popcorn ready for all day eating, so let's flame on! ;)

"Just so we're clear: For the price of a single 17-inch MacBook Pro laptop, Lauren could have bought FOUR HP laptops."

I just imagined someone switching my Mac laptop for four HP laptops while I wasn't looking.

*Shudder*

"Just so we're clear: For the price of a single 17-inch MacBook Pro laptop, Lauren could have bought FOUR HP laptops."

For the price of a MacBook Pro, you can buy one of the HP Laptops and a Tata Nano.

"The tech world--especially the Mac world--is still aflame in some sort of weird controversy over Microsoft's latest "I'm a PC" ad, the one in which Lauren buys a $699 HP laptop."

You've got to be kidding me?

They are STILL?

What's left to throw at it? After calling her fat, ugly, a fraud, and God knows what was behind stuff like the asterisks laden comments on some sites, you would think their blood-lust over such a "disgusting" comment as "I guess I'm not cool enough to buy a Mac", or something to that effect would have been satisfied?

You know, this is a very stupid argument and is unlikely to change anyone's mind.

The people who were going to buy Macs are still going to buy Macs.  The folks who would never have bought a Mac, still won't buy a Mac.

I can't believe there's enough overlap in the two groups to warrant all this discussion.

"I've got the popcorn ready for all day eating, so let's flame on! ;)"

Right now in some lonely corner of the world:

((insert troll name here) checking RSS feed)

(eyes bug out of head)

"THAT SON OF A BIT**!!!"

* Post off-topic links

* flames

* more links

* Call Paul an idiot

* Yet more off-topic links

In the other thread on this topic, go read John Papola's final post. He said everything that needed to be said, and he said it very well.

community.winsupersite.com/.../is-pc-world-for-losers-too.aspx

I'll only add one point: A tax is something paid INVOLUNTARILY. No one is "taxed" by Apple; people pay for the products because they are perceived as worth the price.

The ad is a major strategic blunder for all the reasons that John already stated.

News at eleven: Machine with inferior specs costs less

Todd Bishop, who Paul quoted, seems very critical of the ads:

www.techflash.com/.../Next_up_for_Microsofts_real-life_Windows_star_7-Eleven_ads.html

www.techflash.com/.../How_real_is_real_life_Windows_ad_Apple_sidewalk_scene_is_fishy_42033192.html

www.techflash.com/.../Microsoft_keeps_Lauren_incognito_41998587.html

Ocean: I don't see how the cost comparison between a Mac and a PC is a stupid argument. These days the cost of anything is highly relevant.

And the Apple troll links fly!!!!!!

chuckb84, DavidR91, and perennial favorite Ocean, start out nicely with a throwback to an old thread, and slam at the HP computer and some links of some guy that sees a grand conspiracy from MS, and must rush in to protect Apple from this scurrilous assault!

So far, an 8.5 out of 10!

Master, I quoted the same guy Paul did.  Anything weird about that?

>>I don't see how the cost comparison between a Mac and a PC is a stupid argument.<<

Address my argument --> True or False?

>>The people who were going to buy Macs are still going to buy Macs.  The folks who would never have bought a Mac, still won't buy a Mac.

I can't believe there's enough overlap in the two groups to warrant all this discussion.<<

I went to HP and chose a HDX16t since it could option the same video card as the Macbook Pro.

Configuring it the same (RAM, HD, CPU, Network, Photo software, etc)  its 2030.99.  So it has a 1inch smaller screen but comes with a freed BD upgrade right now.

Oh and that included 15 months of AV software.  Not quite the same, but still less than Apple.

Yesterday I was suit shopping. I was looking at a Zegna and Abboud. Both were great, I mean fantastic suits. The Zegna was a little bit 'sech-seer' but only mildly and it was $2600 for the Zegna and $600 for the Abboud. Which do you think I bought??

I'm a PC and my clothes don't define me.

"Master, I quoted the same guy Paul did.  Anything weird about that?"

Ocean's right. Todd does seem critical of the ads. He was among the people that floated conspiracy theories about them last week.

"rush in to protect Apple from this scurrilous assault!"

Protecting Apple? How about protecting logic - where is the "LOL" factor in a machine with vastly inferior specs (barring HD / RAM / USB port count) costly less than a better spec'd counterpart?

Example: I found an old ThinkPad on IBM for about £50. $699 is about = £493. Therefore, ignoring the spec disparity, I could get nearly 10 ThinkPads for the same price. For some reason, that's grounds to "LOL" and criticise the manufacturer of the £493 laptop.

Or are you only able to see the flaw in this logic once we move away from comparisons with Apple? (Seriously, the whole "I ILLOGICALLY DISLIKE COMPANY [n]!! LOLOLOL" is old. Let's stick to logic and specs, not bullcrap. Pointing out the flaw in the comparison is not trolling, just because it disagrees with your opinion of it)

As I said before, this ad makes me wanna buy a Mac and Microsoft could as well have said: "If you can afford a Mac, get one!"

I'd happily pay 1000$ more for 8 (!!!) hours of battery life instead of 2.5 hours and another 1000$ for the better processor, reduced size and weight, better design and the ability to run Mac OS X.

So what's left of the so-called 'Apple-tax'? Nothing. You always get what you pay for.

Why doesn't MS just let her speak freely?  Why did they make her sign a confidentiality agreement?  Why wouldn't they release her name to the press or make her available for interviews?  It just makes it *seem* underhanded.

>>"Lauren" turns out to be Lauren De Long, a Los Angeles-based actress. We contacted her via phone to ask what she actually thinks about her HP laptop -- which one critic describes as "the epitome of what people dislike about PCs."

She declined to comment, saying she had signed a confidentiality agreement and wanted to check first to see if she was allowed to speak to the press.

Microsoft had declined to make her available last week amid questions over the company's claims about the authenticity of the ad.<<

www.techflash.com/.../Next_up_for_Microsofts_real-life_Windows_star_7-Eleven_ads.html

Ed Bott says she should have went with a Dell:

>>Of course, if Lauren had asked me I probably would have suggested she visit Dell’s website and look at the Studio 15 notebook, which is available with nearly identical specs to the HP model above but can be upgraded to an Intel Core 2 Duo P8600 CPU that will run rings around the P7350. When I configured that model at Dell’s website a few minutes ago, it cost a mere $874.<<

www.edbott.com/weblog

@DavidR91

A vastly more expensive than the budget she had to work with.

WHICH WAS THE POINT OF THE AD!

Notice how none of the Apple folks even dispute this. They have moved on to the new talking point of PC that cost less than a Mac are in effect, horrible machines that are useless for anything other than breaking down.

Never mind the hinge problems on those "vastly superior" machines or that pesky video card issue.

Or the many other problems that you can read on any Mac help messageboard.

The are superior by virtue of them being more expensive.

I say to Apple, run with that premise, especially in this economy.

They wont have to worry about any tech writer pointing out what I just did. They are too busy looking for the guy behind the grassy knoll in the MS ads.

Ocean: "The people who were going to buy Macs are still going to buy Macs.  The folks who would never have bought a Mac, still won't buy a Mac."

I think that was absolutely the case a few years ago. However, I'm not so sure that line of reasoning holds as true anymore. The advent of cloud computing means that the browser is increasingly becoming the default interface for users. The operating system and the hardware specs are not as important as they used to be because people are spending the majority of their computing time these days browsing online content. So, the average user who is buying a new computer is simply interested in getting something that is good enough to get online and in this economy why should they pay $1000-2000 when they can get a decent laptop that does the job for $500-$700?

I also think the distinction between Mac and PC is far less significant than it used to be. Sure you have your diehards on both sides who will never buy anything from the opposing side but 90% of people just want to pay as little as possible for a machine that does what they want with acceptable performance.

A year or two ago, I think many more people were buying Macs because they are very cool and more people could afford them. However, with this economy and how much PCs have come down in price, I still think    highlighting the cost difference between Macs and PCs is a perfectly sound argument make.

Oh, and did I mention the better screen and the included software along with a crapware-free computer that 'just works' out of the box?

No, really, this ad is sooo lousy.

Everyone knew that Macs are expensive!

Thus, this commercial only makes people feel that Microsoft has no arguments left except for the price!

It won't stop rich people from buying Macs and those who can not afford one would not have bought one anyway!

Moreover, it enforces people's feelings that Macs are just 'cooler' or, in other words, better.

And, frankly, I'd not even think about getting the HP if I had 3000$ to spend.

Sure, Macs are expensive. But comparing a cheap, crappy HP laptop to a shiny, powerful, lightweight MacBook with a great display, great battery life and great software included is just stupid.

This ad won't stop anyone who can afford a Mac from buying one, and people who don't have that much money would not buy one anyway. Why do they need those ads? The price tag on each computer does say enough because nobody (except those who don't care for the price) would buy a laptop without even looking at the price.

"Why doesn't MS just let her speak freely?  Why did they make her sign a confidentiality agreement?  Why wouldn't they release her name to the press or make her available for interviews?  It just makes it *seem* underhanded."

Because they know idiots like you, and similar idiots in the tech press, have been on a warpath trying to discredit her and MS over this spot.

MS took a swipe at Apple, so the tech media desperately wants to take her out for participating in this "evil" ad.

MS knows how dishonest and biased the tech media is, so let them choke. They are making complete fools out of themselves, and bringing more attention to this ad at the same time.

Maybe Microsoft understands what makes these Apple flunkies, and their press allies, tick, and are now harvesting their derangement for their benefit?

"Lauen" [sic] probably drives a used Ford Tempo because she's not cool enough to drive a VW Beetle like Paul.

We all have our preferences.

Good point, Master.

People, including tech journalists, seem to have the basic premise of the ad wrong. The idea of the ads is to show that "one size fits all" is not for everyone.

"No, really, this ad is sooo lousy.

Everyone knew that Macs are expensive!"

Well then you have nothing to worry about then, right?

All of this uproar from people like you has been over an ad that stated the obvious, huh?

And I suppose the sky is green and the sun rises in the west too?

The thing is that if the ad was soooooo lousy, as you are really trying hard to convince us that it is, then let it go, and let it have zero effect.

I mean it's not like people are opting for cheap PC when those, superior, and more expensive macs have seen such a sharp increase in sales lately.

Oops.

I will say that I don't particularly like the execution of the ad. I agree with its premise and the argument it is trying to make but there is something off-putting about the actress and the reality TV-style camera work. I think a similar but more professionally styled commercial could have been done far, far better and thus been more effective.

@kenmcnamee how many switchers (in that past) do you think chose a Mac instead of a new PC based on them being, in your words "very cool"??

The switchers I know chose them for the following reasons....

1.  Had lots of malware problems with their PC's and knew people that NO problems with their Mac's

2.  Said they did not want Vista for whatever reason.

3.  Felt (for whatever reason) that Macs lasted longer.

4.  Liked iLife apps.

None of them said they were "very cool".  

Only time will tell if this economy will stop the advance of Mac's.  Macs had been growing market share at a much higher rate then the PC market for almost 2 years straight.  Last month was a the first downturn for Mac, but this time a year (after the holidays) is a downturn for all computer makers usually.

>>So, the average user who is buying a new computer is simply interested in getting something that is good enough to get online and in this economy why should they pay $1000-2000 when they can get a decent laptop that does the job for $500-$700?<<

How far do you go?  Linux users could legitimately argue (and some have) that there is a MS tax on hardware that Linux doesn't incur.  

The big secret is: Most people are going to buy PC's that the majority of their knowledgable friends have.  

There was a blog entry this weekend where a guy talked about having to drive 50 miles from where he lived  just to see Macsbefore buying one, whereas the electronic stores in his little town all had PC's.  He'd have to drive 50 miles back to see a 'Genius' if it broke, but he wouldn't for a PC.

>>with this economy and how much PCs have come down in price, I still think    highlighting the cost difference between Macs and PCs is a perfectly sound argument make.<<

I think its a sound argument to make as well.  I just think it's dumb for techies to argue about price when we can argue the technical merits.

Ed Bott really rips it here.  He's such a Windows ideologue. :)

www.edbott.com/weblog

"A vastly more expensive than the budget she had to work with.

WHICH WAS THE POINT OF THE AD!"

Fair enough - a budget is a budget, and yeah, I would probably buy the same machine faced with the same choice. I haven't watched the entire ad though - and what I was critiquing was the logic behind the comparison on this page, not just the price of the machines.

I did not say that the price dictated the superiority of the Macbook in the comparison - but the specs are better. Whilst it may not be _that_ much better than the HP, I disagree that it's grounds for "OMG LOL!" to the fact it is more expensive. Why is it a surprise that more money gets you a better spec + more software?

For the price of a 17″ mac book pro I can purchase a 17″ windows laptop, a core i7 Windows desktop, and three 22″ monitors.

Insert Apple Fan boy reponse below:

>>It won't stop rich people from buying Macs<<

Like college students?  :)

>>Because they know idiots like you<<

Why can't we be civil to one another?

>>the tech media desperately wants to take her out<<

I actually haven't seen much from the tech media.  Just the so-called blogosphere, and there it's broken down partisan lines.

See my Ed Bott post, Pauls posts, Daring Fireball, Mary Jo Foley, etc.  

Todd Bishop is the only pro-MS person that's wary of the ad, and his argument is not that the premise is wrong, it's just that MS lied when they said she went in the store looking for a Mac at all.  

>>it's hard to escape the feeling that the ad was something less than a straight-up, by-the-book account of Lauren's search for a new computer. <<

www.techflash.com/.../How_real_is_real_life_Windows_ad_Apple_sidewalk_scene_is_fishy_42033192.html

"Last month was a the [sic] first downturn for Mac"

And you base this on....?

daringfireball.net/.../npd-macs-february

For those who don't want to click through to lotsas link, Jon Gruber says:

>NPD doesn’t have some sort of magic access to Apple’s sales numbers, and Apple does not release monthly sales data.<

bettieblu: Sorry, I didn't mean to suggest that "coolness" was the only factor in causing people to choose Macs over PCs a year or so ago - although I do know a few people for whom coolness was the deciding factor. The perception (right or wrong) was that Vista sucked, Macs were of better quality and that the Mac cache was worth paying the premium. For those reasons, and also because people simply had more disposable income, Macs were making modest gains in market share.

The situation is a little different now. Vista still doesn't have the greatest reputation but the hardware driver makers finally got their act together and the combination of stable drivers with Vista SP1 has quieted much of the bad press Vista was getting. The mostly glowing press that Windows 7 has received is probably also helping to change the perception of PCs in the media and in the public. Macs are still seen as being of better quality but how much is that quality worth when all you need to do is get online, check your email, and watch funny videos on YouTube of kittens and babies?

NPD numbers,

www.osnews.com/.../Apple_US_Mac_Sales_Down_16_Windows_PC_Sales_up_22_

But dont waste your time lotsa...I dont care really.  If there up great, if there down oh well, Apple is now feeling the pain everyone else is.

Know what would make the "Lauren" spot complete? Howie Long ridiculing the dude at the Genius Bar for leaving his "man-step" down. Or the guys who disavow their self imposed faux-hipsterism when they switch from Starbucks to McDonalds coffee. Or The Slowski's.

Have I just not been that observant of advertising before, or is this a new trend, these obvious attacks on the image leader's *customers*, not just the company?

Apple doesn't release monthly numbers.  NPD is guessing, even if it is an educated guess.

LOL. What exactly did Microsoft contribute to that HP bargain, Microsoft Works? Ugh. I also love how the HP's included software lists Adobe Reader as a value-add... wow, what an incredible freebie, eh?

Truth is, the only reason Microsoft can perpetuate this dogma is why their OEM's have chewed each others' margins down to next to nothing. Dell's now struggling after hollowing out their suppliers fighting a margins war with HP. Cripes, why do you think IBM sold their PC division to Lenovo?

This ad reeks of desperation on Microsoft's part. Chasing Google, chasing Apple, or chasing the boogieman du jour ... I'd rather they spent their ad dollars convincing me why their software is better than the other guy's. I mean, that's primarily what make isn't it?

Apple's come back ad should be....

The two guys in the I am a Mac ads sitting at a table with a sign above it, "Free Notebook to the first 100 people"  Each person has a choice of a Macbook Pro 17inch or that turdzilla 17inch notebook.  After 100 people come and go, Mac is getting up to leave and asks PC "you need a hand carry those 100 PC's to your car?"

Apple took the hit of rewriting its operating system for the modern era.  Microsoft is taking the hit of NOT rewriting its operating system for the modern era.

There is a Microsoft tax.  It's the time and satisfaction that using Windows burns out of you.  I'll happily spend a lot to avoid that.

The point of the ad is about the diversity of the market, and to point out the value proposition in financially trying times.  That is it.  Trying to read too much in to this is just plain dumb.  This is ONE ad out of MANY.  Some people seem to think that for an ad to be effective it needs to be 60 minutes long extolling all of the virtues of the Windows platform and explaining every little caveat about comparisons and the like.  They only get a small time slice to make an impression.  To the "normals" that have only heard from some hipster doofus that Windows sucks, this is the kind of thing that helps to change their minds.  To the "normals" they know nothing of the fighting in the Mac vs PC war that brews in the blogosphere everyday.  They are normal, and not obsessed like us.

Anyway, it doesn't matter.  MS could give out free B J's to every man, performed by Jessica Alba herself, and they still would get hammered by the iCabal.  In other news, bears are sh***ing in woods, the Pope is Catholic, taxes are due on April 15 and the desert is dry.

Ocean said: "The people who were going to buy Macs are still going to buy Macs.  The folks who would never have bought a Mac, still won't buy a Mac."

I think it's quite relevant.

I'm a Mac user, so don't jump me about it, and I will not flame.

There, with that said, I found the ad to be quite good. I think it points out (1) valid point - some Macs are overpriced. I enjoy the Mac experience, but can't see paying $2800 for a laptop either. My 4 year-old iMac G5 is doing just fine (paid $1199 for it), and in 3 or 4 more years I will get another new Mac desktop. So, even though I thought the ad was good, it won't convince me to switch to a PC - unless I can legally, and without hassles, install OS X on it :)

I want a Mac.  My wife doesn't see why I would spend the money.  Hence why I don't have one :) I use Vista and Linux and would add a Mac to that if it weren't for cost.  I may buy a Mac next though and install Win 7 on it and get the best of both OS's.

Ocean said: "The people who were going to buy Macs are still going to buy Macs.  The folks who would never have bought a Mac, still won't buy a Mac."

Absolutely!

Moreover, I think even more people are going to buy Macs (at least after this so-called 'economic crisis) because it seems Microsoft has got no arguments left other than the price, which makes Mac even more desirable.

"This ad reeks of desperation on Microsoft's part. Chasing Google, chasing Apple, or chasing the boogieman du jour ... I'd rather they spent their ad dollars convincing me why their software is better than the other guy's. I mean, that's primarily what make isn't it?"

So true... Microsoft is getting desperate as they notice that there is no reason left for consumers not to switch to the Mac - except for the price (but there are still enough people who can and will actually afford a Mac as even Microsoft now admits that Macs are 'cooler').

I'll be the first to admit that I bought a cheap laptop [my $399 ACER from BestBuy] and it does what I need and a bit more. Sure, it's not a MBP, but that's not what I need. Equal hardware configurations have been at least $1000 more for a non-upgraded MBP, but yet, my partners and family are buying them as they are tired of the malware and performance slow downs after 6 months to a year of use on a PC. The iMac is competitively priced and the Mac Pro Tower is actually less expensive than similar hardware. But here's a link that I found interesting, sorta making MS a bunch of liars. Note the reference to the bald guy:

"I am a PC Ad' was staged"

9to5mac.com/microsoft-ad-is-a-fake

The point of the ad is quite simple. For those of us who work for a living, work in a very tight budget,  and who are considered middle class probably under $50,000 a year, the prices for the Macintosh's, Macbooks, and iMacs are just out of our reach.

47 million Americans cannot even afford healthcare. Thats definitely more of a priority than a high priced computer. Yet those who do have health care, the average family making $50,000 is paying an average of $14,000 in health cost. That leaves you $36,000 to pay your rent/mortgage, car insurance, cable, internet, groceries, credit cards, cell phone service, landlines (in some cases), car note (in many cases), gas for vehicle, home insurance(in some cases), utilities, college loans(in some cases), and other maintenance or upkeep costs such as clothes, car maintenance, state and local taxes, existing debt, etc. The rest of the world doesn't even have our kind of income with a possible few exceptions.

With all that or any possible combination of the above, how does someone have the bucks to purchase a Mac which is at minimum $300 over the price of a non-Apple made PC? What good is all that percieved value if you simply cannot AFFORD IT?!?!?!? If you can't buy it, then the "percieved" value is just a moot point. If its beyond your grasp no matter how you try to justify the purchase, you're still no closer to buying one.

This is where Microsoft and its PC manufacturers have won and will continue to win this argument again and again for the last 16 years going forward to this year. Especially this year when the world recession has flatlined raises, unemployment is rampant, and excessive spending has been pretty much stopped in its tracks. Apple still has 3 percent world wide of the desktop market. In the U.S., they have made some strides, which I'd put at about 7 percent. However, the 6% drop in Jan and the 16% drop in February are all the proof that the Apple tax along with the recession is resonating with consumers.

Now don't get me wrong here and lets definitely not get it twisted here. The hardware features of the mac are impressive. There's no doubt. OS-X is a very good OS. I'd use it in a heartbeat. I simply cannot along with millions of folks justify the hardware expense. With everything going on today, most companies avoiding giving raises, and food prices continue to rise, a Mac isn't even in the cards. As much as I'd like to buy at least the Mini to fool around with, my existing dual core desktop and 64 bit notebook will do just fine for awhile. As long as I keep the OS updated, right now buying Windows 7 is way more economical than justifying a new hardware purchase.

"I am a PC Ad' was staged"

AAAAAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

The Mac cabal still can't believe someone would choose a Windows laptop.

@subzero I agree with you, except I would add these points.

To DRWAM's point, dont lie about your actor being a regular person, just dont say either way.  But to throw it out there in these times of internet information, your going to get caught.

MS could make that comparison with closer models of computers and still have a valid point.  17inch notebooks probably are the least sold size.  Pick the #1 sold size (15.4inch??) with as close as you can get them spec wise, then compare them.  I am sure the Windows one will be cheaper even then.  Instead they compare only the size and nothing else is the same, the cheapest 17inch you can buy and the most expensive.  They did this of course to get the biggest price gap.

Now Joe User probably wont know, but there are enough people that do that will understand the comparison is invalid.

"The point of the ad is quite simple. For those of us who work for a living, work in a very tight budget,  and who are considered middle class probably under $50,000 a year, the prices for the Macintosh's, Macbooks, and iMacs are just out of our reach. "

But that's exactly why there is no point. People won't stop going into the Apple store in order to at least look at a Mac and its price.

Those who want a Mac and can afford it will still buy one and those who can't afford it would not buy one anyways.

Thus, this ad changes nothing. It only shows how desperate Microsoft is as they seem to realize that their only selling point is the price.

It's sad when a company doesn't believe in its own products anymore...

"Pick the #1 sold size (15.4inch??) with as close as you can get them spec wise, then compare them.  I am sure the Windows one will be cheaper even then."

There's just one problem: You won't find any 15.4" laptop that can compete with a MacBook in terms of build quality and design and comes without crapware, preloaded with great apps like iLife and actually 'just works' out of the box...

Some people belive that hardware specs are all that matters. Apple has realized that a computer must provide a seamless experience out of the box, which means nice design an quality, no bloatware AND, very important, good HIDs like a touchpad that doesn't destroy your fingers, a keyboard that's nice to type on and a bright, high quality display!

Those things are at least as important as the pure specs. Microsoft and its partners still have not realized that and that's why Macs make people happy and lots of (if not most) Windows machines lead to frustration!

We were hoping to catch up with Microsoft's "Lauren," a regular gal who Microsoft surprised with $1,000 to buy a laptop...in a national commercial. And it ends up she's an LA-based, SAG-eligible actress.

UPDATE: Tracked down by TechFlash, "Lauren" (who is really Lauren De Long) says on her site "[she] booked what she thought was a "Market and Research" job regarding laptops. But that's not all she booked...actually Lauren found out they were shooting a national commercial! Tears, laughter and excitement greeted this new development."

The Wall Street Journal reported that the Microsoft test group had been assembled from "recruited prospective computer shoppers." Shoppers are distinctly different from people looking for jobs. Regardless-

Reading through De Long's resume, you find that her "special skills" include Cheerleading, Ear Prompter, Hula Hoop, and Stage Combat. So wait, she's an actress AND a cheerleader AND a stage combatant, but she's STILL not cool enough to use a Mac? No way. We just don't buy it."

Sure, actors aren't normal people.

"I'd rather they spent their ad dollars convincing me why their software is better than the other guy's."

Geez.  They have!  In other ads.  This is ONE, ONE, ONE ad!  Do you guys get the idea this is ONE ad?  And that there are MANY ads that they are producing?  Has that sunk in?  Because I don't think it has based on the commentary here.

To the "normals," you know, not us, the value proposition is very important.  This ONE ad reveals the value proposition.  The ad is obviously not geared towards the readers of this blog, nor is it trying to convert died in the wool Mac fans.  It is trying to remind normal people that have limited knowledge of computers, that Justin Long, while a known computer expert and Emmy winning actor, does not know everything and that maybe, just maybe, Windows is actually pretty good.  And look at that, you can buy a Windows PC for less.  So you family that just took that pay cut or saw the value of their modest home drop, that they can in fact afford a good quality computer for not as much change as what Apple is charging.  To a normal, this is news, and that is the market they are directing this ad at.  That Justin Long and his soothing voice are considered to be cool, and that being cool is not the only thing in this world to aspire to.  Didn't your mothers ever teach you guys that when growing up?

To think otherwise, and to think that just because they are bringing up the value proposition to normals is not expected in this economic climate... well, that's just plain dumb.

And FWIW, I do believe they could have chosen a better model HP or Sony, or Dell to make the comparison. They went for the cheap end, which given the economic climate is not really that surprising, is it?

My fav part is the NDA they made Lauren sign.  Walls, not windows.  And if you look closely at the 'Mac Store' the same guy is walking by as she's going in and coming back out.  Not saying it was staged, but it isn't like we can ask Lauren.  

I'm thinking about how Lauren could save even more money by getting Ubuntu instead.  let's compare apples to apples to apples if we're just looking at specs.

@ all mac carzies:

Are you STILL missing the very very simple point of this ad?

It's a simple story, someone wants a laptop. All they really want is a 17" screen, and they have NO MORE than $1000 to spend

Their budget means they can't afford a mac.

What is so fricking dificult to grasp about that?

"We were hoping to catch up with Microsoft's "Lauren," a regular gal who Microsoft surprised with $1,000 to buy a laptop...in a national commercial. And it ends up she's an LA-based, SAG-eligible actress.

UPDATE: Tracked down by TechFlash, "Lauren" (who is really Lauren De Long) says on her site "[she] booked what she thought was a "Market and Research" job regarding laptops. But that's not all she booked...actually Lauren found out they were shooting a national commercial! Tears, laughter and excitement greeted this new development."

The Wall Street Journal reported that the Microsoft test group had been assembled from "recruited prospective computer shoppers." Shoppers are distinctly different from people looking for jobs. Regardless-

Reading through De Long's resume, you find that her "special skills" include Cheerleading, Ear Prompter, Hula Hoop, and Stage Combat. So wait, she's an actress AND a cheerleader AND a stage combatant, but she's STILL not cool enough to use a Mac? No way. We just don't buy it."

Sure, actors aren't normal people."

That was just retarded.

i'm glad to see that TechFlash was hot on the case.....doing what exactly?

Not doing any actual news, but breathlessly trying to trash Lauren De Long as some airhead that is just some useless bimbo who is too dumb to to see the greatness that is Apple.

ALL BECAUSE SHE HAD THE NERVE TO APPEAR IN AN MICROSOFT AD AND TOOK A MILD SWIPE AT APPLE FOR BE TOO EXPENSIVE.

Which again, the cost of Apple computers arent even being disputed, it's just that Microsoft made an ad pointing that out.

AND THAT MUST BE ALLOWED TO GO UNPUNISHED!

Apple fanatics continue to display everything that people see them as. I say keep it up. Why not continue to discredit yourselves as the bullies and gutter dwellers of the tech world. Heck you already have a reputation as D-bags, why not go all in and become stalkers as well.

Can you guys dig into her sex history too? Maybe find an old boyfriend, and see if she had some parking tickets.

I bet that she smokes. Better get on that.

Oh, and dig through her trash too! that will teach her not to say nasty things about Apple.

How dare she! hooooow dare sheeeee!

maati, I just configured a Dell Studio 15.4" laptop with the same or better components for $1064. The MacBook Pro 15.4" starts at $1999. Also, the Dell has options for more memory and hard drive space than the MacBook and it also comes in a dozen or so different colors and designs. With the MacBook you get to choose from aluminum grey or... aluminum grey.

Don't get me wrong, the MacBook is a fantastic machine but my 5 minutes of research has come to exactly the same conclusion as the ad. PCs are much less expensive than Macs and you have many more configuration options to choose from.

That has nothing to do with being a 'mac carzie'. This ad is stupid, and I will explain why (again):

1) It won't stop those who can afford a Mac and want one from buying one.

2) Those who can not afford a Mac would not have bought one anyways.

3) They compare a cheap, crapware-loaded, slow HP computer to a fast, stylish, high quality Apple laptop with great out-of-th box experience.

4) The ad makes me feel like Microsoft is getting desperate, thinking that their only selling point is the price (because they still have not made any commercial highlighting any benefits of Windows!).

5) Microsoft should finally start to point out some real benefits of choosing Windows instead of wasting money on pointless ads - yes, this ad is pointless because anyone who considers buying a Mac knows the price!

Furthermore, I'd just like to point out that I am NOT an Apple fanboy. I'm the one who has constantly been teasing Paul for choosing an iPhone and I'm a heavy Tablet-PC (with Windows 7) user. But this ad really makes me want a Mac, because I can afford one and I want to be 'cool' - lol -

"Geez.  They have!  In other ads.  This is ONE, ONE, ONE ad!  Do you guys get the idea this is ONE ad?  And that there are MANY ads that they are producing?  Has that sunk in?  Because I don't think it has based on the commentary here."

No, they have not. Please, show me the ad where they tell us WHY Windows is better. They have shown us how easy it is to use Windows Live Photo gallery - iPhoto is just as easy. They have shown us lots of people saying they are PCs - that doesn't make PCs better. They have made some videos about what you can do with Windows (those 'life without walls' videos on windows.com) - but IMHO Macs can do all that as well.

WHERE do they tell us WHY Windows is better?

maati - Windows/PCs don't need to be better than Macs. They simply need to be just as functional and at least pleasing to eye. The fact that they are half the price of the Macs will pretty much take care of the Mac vs. PC argument for most people.

Staged or not, Lauren is a "10"... a "4" + a 6-pack. Heck, I would have GIVEN her my $399 lappy for a B J  :)

I'm just sayin'

But seriously, it was a very good commercial, but you only have to look at a retail flyer for almost any store, especially BestBuy to see the price difference between a Mac and PC. But the goal to appeal to the common people would probably not be needed as they couldn't afford a MBP anyway, so it was a waste of my share holders money...unless they throw in that B J for a dividend ;)

@gorath

They dont care about the point of the ad.

It took a swipe, albeit a mild one compared to to the ones Apple takes at Microsoft, at Macs, and this is what sent them over the edge.....again.

They will not stop until they can smear the ad, and Lauren, into the ground.

These are not sane people. They are fanatics.

The only thing they haven't done, that we know of yet, was to threaten physical assault on Lauren. I wouldn't put it past them at this point.

"maati, I just configured a Dell Studio 15.4" laptop with the same or better components for $1064. The MacBook Pro 15.4" starts at $1999. Also, the Dell has options for more memory and hard drive space than the MacBook and it also comes in a dozen or so different colors and designs. With the MacBook you get to choose from aluminum grey or... aluminum grey."

NO, NO, NO. You didn't get it! A Dell Studio is cheap, loaded with bloatware, its display is nowhere near as good as a MacBook Pro one, it doesn't look as good, it doesn't provide a nice out-of-the-box experience and it doesn't have that good (very good!) trackpad and keyboard.

It's not the hardware specs that make a nice user experience. This is why so many people are frustrated with Windows machines, particularly Vista. Because the OEMs don't realize that bloatware and bad input devices are even worse than a slow processor!

This is why people are satisfied and happy with Macs and this is why those who can afford a Mac will buy one, because they can be sure that the Mac won't frustrate them (in most cases).

"maati - Windows/PCs don't need to be better than Macs. They simply need to be just as functional and at least pleasing to eye. The fact that they are half the price of the Macs will pretty much take care of the Mac vs. PC argument for most people."

YES, that's right, BUT people who don't have enough money would not buy a mac anyways, so WHY this ad?

It also won't stop people who have the money from buying a Mac - and it even amplifies people's feelings that Macs are 'cooler' or better.

Oh, and let's not forget that this ad provides Apple with one more target for their next ad.

In my opinion, this ad is just wrong because it will hurt Microsoft instead of helping them.

@ maati

Show us the Apple ad telling me why OSX is better or why iLife is better.

in fact has an Apple as ever mentioned OSX by name in the past 3 years?

But MS has to now prove why they are better?

These ads are designed to counter the years of ads from Apple that did nothing but trash Windows, while again never telling us why OSX is better or really showing it doing anything.

Are they an informerical?  Nope.

Should they be? Nah.

Is Apple expected to prove why their OS is better? Never even hinted at.

Are these ads getting major play because Apple fans cant shut up about them? You bet.

Has the ad agency earned their bonus? Yep.

Wow, now after having looked at the MacBook options matrix I'm actually kind of shocked at how little you get for all that money.

store.apple.com/.../macbook_pro

You get a whopping 2 USB ports with the 15.4" MacBook?? Geez, my 6 year old Dell has 4 USB ports. My wife's 2 year old Dell has 6. The biggest hard drive you can get in the MacBook is 320GB and the most RAM is 4GB. With the screen you can choose from 1440x900 or... actually 1440x900 is the only option you have. The MacBook only has one DVD drive option and two CPU options. And by the way, they want $500 more to upgrade from the 2.4GHz CPU to the 2.66GHz CPU with a measly extra 70GB of storage.

I'm sorry but when I first watched that ad I at least thought that you were actually getting something for the premium cost of the MacBook. Now, I really don't see how the MacBook comes even close to being worth that premium. In this economy, Apple is simply gouging its customers by not providing more affordable options.

"Oh, and let's not forget that this ad provides Apple with one more target for their next ad.

In my opinion, this ad is just wrong because it will hurt Microsoft instead of helping them.

"

Yeah suuuuuuuuure, Maati.

oh an by "provides Apple with one more target for their next ad", are you saying that Apple doing ads taking swipes at MS in the past, and if you are correct, in future ones, are ok?

Did you find the ads Apple did in the past "just wrong"?

"@ maati

Show us the Apple ad telling me why OSX is better or why iLife is better.

in fact has an Apple as ever mentioned OSX by name in the past 3 years?"

Well, at least they said that Vista was worse than OS X, which is the same as saying OS X is better.

I don't think OS X is better but Apple's ads definitely are!

Uh, maati...

"Furthermore, I'd just like to point out that I am NOT an Apple fanboy."

And  few post down:

"NO, NO, NO. You didn't get it! A Dell Studio is cheap, loaded with bloatware, its display is nowhere near as good as a MacBook Pro one, it doesn't look as good, it doesn't provide a nice out-of-the-box experience and it doesn't have that good (very good!) trackpad and keyboard."

"This is why people are satisfied and happy with Macs and this is why those who can afford a Mac will buy one, because they can be sure that the Mac won't frustrate them (in most cases)."

Brother...

"oh an by "provides Apple with one more target for their next ad", are you saying that Apple doing ads taking swipes at MS in the past, and if you are correct, in future ones, are ok?"

Well, Apple knows that Microsoft is not able to make good commercials. Thus, they can provide MS with as many targets as they want because they can be sure that MS won't respond.

And it's true, MS never did respond. There were SO MANY LIES in all those Apple commercials. SO MANY TARGETS for Microsoft and they never responded.

Instead, they made those lousy 'I'm a PC' ads and now, this ever lousier Lauen ad.

" Now, I really don't see how the MacBook comes even close to being worth that premium."

Everytime I use the f**king trackpad on my Dell, and everytime I look at the paint that already comes off after 6 months.....

Wait - it's a Latitude XT for 2500$ and still the quality can't keep up with a 1000$ MacBook?!

Ken, they compared it to the 17in MacBook Pro, not the 15.4 in MacBook Pro. Using the link you gave you find this

Connections and Expansion

   * MagSafe power port

   * Gigabit Ethernet port

   * One FireWire 800 port (up to 800 Mbps)

   * Three USB 2.0 ports (up to 480 Mbps)

   * Mini DisplayPort

   * Audio line in

   * Audio line out

   * ExpressCard/34 slot

   * Security cable lock slot

However, they used the computer with the largest price difference, rather than an iMac or MacBook. As I stated, the Pro Tower is actually cheaper than  the same hardware from Dell or HP. But in all fairness, comparing the computer at the high end of the spectrum rather than the average is not a reasonable comparison. Although the point about that single product is true. Personally, I have posted here before, that I configured a 17in HP with the same specs as the MacBook Pro [17in base model] and got a $1000 difference, I actually found a $500 off coupon too, so I got it for $1500 less [for my nephew]. He had enough left over to buy lots of condoms for college, so he didn't mind the bloatware, which he deleted anyway.

"Well, at least they said that Vista was worse than OS X, which is the same as saying OS X is better."

So in short, they haven't. they said one was horrible, but couldn't tell me why theirs wasn't.

"I don't think OS X is better but Apple's ads definitely are!"

For peddling in stereotypes, unsubstantiated claims, and just being bash ads against the competition?

Okay.

Maati said, "In my opinion, this ad is just wrong because it will hurt Microsoft instead of helping them." Your concern for Microsoft is duly noted. ;)

"A Dell Studio is cheap, loaded with bloatware, its display is nowhere near as good as a MacBook Pro one, it doesn't look as good, it doesn't provide a nice out-of-the-box experience and it doesn't have that good (very good!) trackpad and keyboard."

Have you actually bought and used a Dell Studio?? I have and it is a very, very nice machine. The only crapware it came with was Acrobat Reader which I would have installed anyways and McAfee which I promptly removed. It's a great looking machine with an outstanding display and the keyboard/trackpad are perfectly fine. AND IT IS ONE THOUSAND DOLLARS CHEAPER THAN THE MACBOOK! I think you just seriously do not understand that most people do not subscribe to either the Mac or PC religion. They don't care, they just want something that does what they need for the lowest price and isn't ugly. There are plenty of people who can afford the Mac but still buy the PC because it is half the price in many cases.

Those Dell Studios are actually pretty cool looking - you should check one out. They come in more designs than just aluminum grey you know.

Master3, you don't get it. I'm a Tablet PC user and I like the possibilities that my Latitude XT provides. I'm definitely NOT an Apple fanboy. I also don't think that OS X is better.

But Apple's ad are - period.

And not even my 2500$ Dell Latitude XT can match any Apple machine in terms of design and quality - so where's the Apple tax? You get what you pay for, there's no Apple tax whatsoever, just a premium for nice design, good quality and a perfect user experience.

kenmcnamee - I've not bought a Dell Studio, but a 2500$ Latitude XT. I just can't believe that a Dell Studio can match any Apple laptop when not even my 2500$ Latitude can.

"For peddling in stereotypes, unsubstantiated claims, and just being bash ads against the competition?

Okay."

I know they're full of lies (e.g. OS X being more secure - lol!) but THEY WORK. Microsoft's ads don't.

"Well, Apple knows that Microsoft is not able to make good commercials. Thus, they can provide MS with as many targets as they want because they can be sure that MS won't respond."

Okay, I'm just skipping over that because it's just stupid.

"And it's true, MS never did respond. There were SO MANY LIES in all those Apple commercials. SO MANY TARGETS for Microsoft and they never responded."

MS isnt going to put out an ad for ad response. That's a waste of money. They (as I theorize) looked at the overall image that many ads created and are working the forest and not the trees. Ad Age recently hit it exactly when they saw how the more positive, MS ads have successfully painted the Apple ones a bullying and arrogant.

Random thought: If OSX is so great, why doesn't Apple sell it for use on PCs as well? Seriously.

Another random thought: This wasn't really a Microsoft ad. It actually came down to being an ad for HP I think.

kenmcnamee -  I like aluminium. It looks and feels solid and precious. Too bad my 2500$ Latitude XT is not made from aluminium, because then I woould not have to deal with paint coming off after 6 months already.

"MS isnt going to put out an ad for ad response. That's a waste of money."

No, that Lauen ad was a waste of money!

"Random thought: If OSX is so great, why doesn't Apple sell it for use on PCs as well? Seriously."

Hm, I don't think OS X is better. But having the choice would be nice ;)

I use OS X at home and Windows 7 on my Tablet PC and every OS has its strenghts and weaknesses.

It's not about OS X vs. Windows. It's about Apple vs. Windows-loaded computers. About cheap computers loaded with bloatware, slowing an actually pretty good OS (yes, Vista is good!) down, frustrating the user and about (very) expensive, but high-quality computers that provide a nice experience out of the box.

maati: "I've not bought a Dell Studio, but a 2500$ Latitude XT. I just can't believe that a Dell Studio can match any Apple laptop when not even my 2500$ Latitude can."

Wow, a $2500 Latitude XT. My condolences. That machine was a dog. Now I understand the source of your rage. But seriously, the Studio machines are actually very high quality and Dell's attempt at a comeback. I've also had good experiences lately with various configurations of Gateways, Acers and Thinkpads. But there I go again.. talking about vendor choice and hardware options. You know, those things that Apple doesn't provide.

"Wait - it's a Latitude XT for 2500$ and still the quality can't keep up with a 1000$ MacBook?!"

Well, obviously, the ads not for you.

I thought Microsoft's ad did a great job of not mocking Apple. I mean, it's like me going into a Porsche dealership and expecting to find a $20,000 car. Granted Porsches are great cars, but I guess I'm not cool enough (read rich enough) to drive one. Mac users want to have the cake and eat it too. That's the reason for all this umbrage.

maati: I like aluminum too. I just don't think it's worth $1000. "Precious" though? I think that is going a little too far.

Ken, in contrast, my $399 ACER [it was on sale, $100 off to be truthful] has 3 USB ports, and a multicard reader, VGA, Ethernet and modem ports, as well as a DL DVD burner. Also, if you put one of my kids in front of my Mac, they do the same things as they would on my PC's, just as most people would. I guess it's just another personal preference, which is why I drive a Benz ;)

maati: I like your last post. I think we've come to a reasonable agreement that having choices is better. And I do agree that in the past PC vendors loaded way too much crap on top of the OS and provided a bad experience for the user. That time is pretty much over though. The last few computers I have purchased have been a pleasure to use out of the box.

Like I said earlier, the line between Macs and PCs is beginning to blur and given the rise of browser-based computing, the most important difference between the Mac and PC is now cost in my opinion.

Well, everyone has his own preferences. In my opinion, aluminium and a good trackpad and keyboard are worth 1000$.

"Wow, a $2500 Latitude XT. My condolences. That machine was a dog. Now I understand the source of your rage."

Actually I'm pretty satisfied with that Latitude but now my hand hurts again because of that bad trackpad and I think a 2500$ machine really should be made from aluminium. The HP 2730p would have been a better choice, but whatever... (speaking of choices: Apple does not offer the choice of a convertible Tablet PC and that's why I probably will not choose an Apple machine as my next laptop).

That's those small things frustrating those who choose cheap Dells over expensive Apples - and even those who choose expensive Dells over expensive Apples, like me.

I don't blame Microsoft for bad laptops, but I think their ads are really bad. And HP, Dell, Acer and all the others should also have those small things that make MacBook users happy - like the multitouch trackpad. Because those small things are way more important than some 400MHz of processor speed or 2GBs of RAM. They may offer cheap machines, but they should also offer quality machines that can keep up with a MacBook.

As shark47 just mentioned Porsche: Apple seems to me like the Porsche of the computer world and ads like this won't stop people from buying an Apple, like even in this 'economic crisis' people still buy Audi and Porsche. There are always people who don't care for the price as long as they get the best quality. Those people won't choose an HP or Dell just because Microsoft tells them that HP and Dell are cheaper.

Price may be especially important in this new economy. But then throw in Windows 7, which should perform well on cheap hardware, and you may see my MS stock go up because of sales. It could be a game changer... Well at least an enhancer since MS already dominates the market. But you know what I mean. That line of difference between the two OS'es is certainly blurring as you state.

DRWAM's laptop is very nice indeed. I bought the closest equivalent we can get in the UK recently, and am incredibly impressed with it.

Anyway, Ken, keep it up, I'm actually finding maati quite amusing at this point.

Maybe we should do a sweepstakes as to when his head's actually going to blow up? Surely to god, he must be foaming at the mouth by now! Certainly comes across that way.

DRWAM: "I drive a Benz."

Nice choice. You actually are getting good value for the premium you're paying.

I wonder what it says about my "taste" that I find Lauren really cute?

Well, that last post was probably a bit confusing as I get tired, but I'd like to add one more thing:

Trust me, I'm not an Apple fan at all. I'm one of those who don't care whether their new PC costs 1000$ or 2500$ as long as it makes them happy. And I had to experience that lots of Windows machines tend to frustrate people and Macs in general tend to make people happy. It's not about the specs, it all about the experience of using the machine. Fast processors only make a small part of that experience.

Concerning your argument about browser-based computing: I don't user browser-based apps but I use Microsoft Exchange and I like it. Unfortunately it's not for consumers and that's one more point where Microsoft needs to improve. The live services are too limited (not even my Windows Mobile phone can sync the calendar), Google offers free services that work with all platforms (Windows Mobile, iPhone, POP3....) and Apple offers a very nice paid service for consumers (especcially those lots of iPhone users...) that is way ahead of all of Microsoft's consumer offerings - again, Apple's service is not free, but you get waht you pay for.

kenmcnamee: "DRWAM: "I drive a Benz."

Nice choice. You actually are getting good value for the premium you're paying."

I prefer my Audi ;-)

Yep, I do think that the laptop is fast, and I am picky about performance.  This makes my point about Windows 7 even stronger, since it should give even better performance and add to the value/performance ratio. Those will be some interesting commercials  that I bet John P would even like to make. Actually, he's kinda bright so MS certainly could use him.

But you get OS X with the Mac. Which is a far superior OS. You're not taking in to the account the inferior OS that the PC user will endure. There's a price for using Windows. The WIndows tax (security holes, viruses, spyware) should not be discounted.

The Mac is also for people that have taste. Those that care about aesthetics. The whole experience on a Mac (running OS X) is far superior. You get what you pay for. And in the case of the PC + Windows, you're getting cheap junk.

maati: "I think (Microsoft's) ads are really bad."

I can definitely agree with you on that statement. I did like the second Seinfeld ad though and the 2 ads with the little kids doing photo/video editing were good. Other than that, Microsoft ads are horrendous.

"There are always people who don't care for the price as long as they get the best quality."

True, but there are a lot more people these days that do care for the price and simply want good value, and it was those people that the ad was attempting to speak to. The whole point of the ad was that Lauren is supposed to be the typical computer buyer who actually needs to stick to a budget. She can't just walk up to the Genius Bar, whip out her black AMEX and walk out with a trendy logo bag.

I do think Microsoft needs to have more ads touting Windows features - maybe when Windows 7 comes out. Vista is a tainted brand.

@subzerohitman721: "47 million Americans cannot even afford healthcare."

That's your country's fault. You're being shat on by the drug companies. Nothing to do with the economy. Lots of people can't afford it when the economy is good.

"Apple seems to me like the Porsche of the computer world "

Speaking as a Windows user who drives a Lotus that easily outdrives Porsches costing twice as much, I'd totally agree with that analogy...

Windows 7 is nice.

gorath, you're amusing. My head will never blow up because I don't care what kind of computer people buy.

I just think that Microsoft's ads are really, really bad whereas Apple's ads are full of lies but at least they work.

I don't care if you are a Mac or Windows user. I use both. My laptop is a Windows machine and I won't buy an Apple as long as they don't make a nice convertible Tablet.

I just think that it's totally wrong to look at the hardware specs alone. Because it's not those specs that counts but the whole user experience. And lots of Windows machines provide a really bad user experience. I'm buying and configuring laptops for lots of people. Most people come to me and say: Get me a laptop for 600$ or 800$. Of course I don't try to get an Apple for that amount. But if someone came to me saying: "Get me the best laptop you can find, money doesn't matter", then I'd definitely choose a Mac. Because I already hate installing basic things for those people on their cheap laptops, I'd never want to use one of those cheap things.

Oh, please excuse any grammar/typing errors I've made. I'm not English and it's already 01:11 here :)

Ok, robertsjoe is home from school. I'm outa here. Good discussion maati. ;)

kenmcnamee: "True, but there are a lot more people these days that do care for the price and simply want good value, and it was those people that the ad was attempting to speak to."

True, but my point was that the ad is useless because the price tag on the machines in the Apple store already does enough - Microsoft should rather point out some reasons why PCs are better, or at least as good, as Macs.

"Speaking as a Windows user who drives a Lotus that easily outdrives Porsches costing twice as much, I'd totally agree with that analogy..."

Frankly, I'd not even take a Lotus if they'd pay me!

lol, Mike and robertsjoe are here, let's get the Popcorn! :D

Touche Mike.

I gotta go to since I've been sitting here with my heating pad and my time is up. G'night gang.

Lenovo ThinkPad W700ds for Professionals

List Price: $5,553.00

Your Price: $4,659.00

Is there also a "Lenovo tax"?

kenmcnamee said:

"Random thought: If OSX is so great, why doesn't Apple sell it for use on PCs as well? Seriously."

I'll answer that...because Apple is a hardware company, always has been. I am not defending Apple, just stating a fact. I think it would be great (from a consumer point of view) if Apple were to sell me it's OS for use on whatever hardware I chose.

subzerohitman721 said:

"The point of the ad is quite simple. For those of us who work for a living, work in a very tight budget,  and who are considered middle class probably under $50,000 a year, the prices for the Macintosh's, Macbooks, and iMacs are just out of our reach."

Some Macs ARE definitely high priced, but not all.

Here is a Dell desktop configured quite close to an iMac =

i41.tinypic.com/2qtzkue.png   i43.tinypic.com/154906p.png

with that set-up you do get a bigger HD and faster disc burner than an iMac. They are almost the same in price.

subzerohitman721 also said:

"47 million Americans cannot even afford healthcare. Thats definitely more of a priority than a high priced computer. Yet those who do have health care, the average family making $50,000 is paying an average of $14,000 in health cost. That leaves you $36,000 to pay your rent/mortgage, car insurance, cable, internet, groceries, credit cards, cell phone service, landlines (in some cases), car note (in many cases), gas for vehicle, home insurance(in some cases), utilities, college loans(in some cases), and other maintenance or upkeep costs such as clothes, car maintenance, state and local taxes, existing debt, etc. The rest of the world doesn't even have our kind of income with a possible few exceptions."

Just want to know where you come up with 14k in healthcare costs. That is way off base, at least for me. But you are correct, it is more of a priority than a computer.

"Speaking as a Windows user who drives a Lotus that easily outdrives Porsches costing twice as much, I'd totally agree with that analogy..."

Hahaha.

maati, you're right. If you can afford a Mac, go for it. If you can't take a loan and buy it. Oh wait... isn't something like that what got us into this financial mess?

I would've loved to buy an Audi S4, when I was looking for a car 2 years ago, , but I decided to stick to my $20k budget and went with a Civic. Yeah, it's not as shiny as an S4 and yes, it won't turn any heads, but it's a great car that gets me from point A to point B, just like the Audi does.

In the end, it's about living within your means. A $2500 MacBook Pro might be great, and if you can afford it, good for you, but most people can't and mocking someone for picking a $700 HP laptop over a $2500 MBP, is irresponsible, in my opinion. Mac cabalists are behaving like those rich, spoiled high school kids. How many Windows ads does it take to turn the Mac tech crowd into robertsjoes?

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"Random thought: If OSX is so great, why doesn't Apple sell it for use on PCs as well? "

Because Apple then gets to control the hardware. They also then don't end up with having to run their OS on trashy hardware (like much of the PC hardware).

It's precisely that it is so great that they don't let it run on PCs.

If you have enough taste and intelligence to see that OS X is far superior, you'll also see that you want it to run on great hardware too.

" I'm one of those who don't care whether their new PC costs 1000$ or 2500$ as long as it makes them happy"

Good point. This is why this ad is good, because someone after seeing this ad may buy the HP and "happily" think s/he saves a lot of money.

BTW, what is "happiess" anyway? It's basicly nothing. It doesn't matter what the truth is. It doesn't matter which is better. It's all about one's perception. This is how ad works.

Microsoft besides the flat out farce about their actor, hit the nail on the head.

If you cant afford a Mac, buy a PC.  The message is loud and clear and congrats to them.

Like any ad MS chose the perfect storm, if you will, to compare their product or a product running Windows, to the competitors and made this comparison based on price alone .  Knowing Apple has a very limited product line MS chose to compare a cheap, if not the cheapest 17inch Windows notebook with the most expensive Apple notebook.  It gives them the best chance to lure the consumer into overlooking all the negatives of Vista/MS.  The consumer ends up thinking "I would love to have a Mac but its not worth it at that difference" or so hopes MS.  The choice of what to compare was a very good one.  An analogy would be comparing a stripped down Chevy Malibu to a BMW M5.  They are both mid sized cars and the Chevy is much cheaper.

Never mind the fact that 17inch notebooks are the least popular or that something like this comparison below would not draw the same conclusion or not get that same effect they have achieved.

www.bestbuy.com/.../olspage.jsp

vs

www.bestbuy.com/.../olspage.jsp

(btw the most expensive notebook 14.1 inch or smaller on the Best Buy web site is a Windows notebook.  www.bestbuy.com/.../olspage.jsp)

So my hat is off to MS or the ad agency.  Joe User wont know the difference and they have made their point.  Much better than the Bill and Jerry disaster.

I am a Windows user at work as a Windows System Engineer, and a Mac user for the most part at home.  I have a unibody Macbook, paid $1299 for it and it is he best notebook I have every used.  The fit and finish is second to none.  Its loaded, or at least for the components on a notebook that cant be replaced.  The battery lasts twice as long as my Vista notebook provided by my employer.  The glass trackpad is simply amazing once you have used it, I think every notebook maker should copy it, seriously its that good.

I'm sure HP, Dell, etc. are loving this ad, since it basically says why spend more than $700 on a low margin machine.

In the meantime, apple is not even running the mac versus PC ads.  They're running iPhone and iPod touch ads.  Where is MS's "cheap"version of those?  Oh yeah, nowhere.  

Apple's next act won't be a mac either.  Apple isn't going to fight MS on the PC versus mac front, they're going to outflank them with stuff that replaces the PC and the mac.

This pretty much sums up whinny PC users

www.geekculture.com/.../1227.html

Very accurate.

Cool or not - I don't need Microsoft to help me add up, and I don't need to be told I'm 'dumb' for spending money on a Mac - for me it's been worth the extra money.  An ad from Microsoft that basically insults me in order to try to change my mind is ... poor.

@shark

I would never buy a Lotus and I'd never buy a Civic. I'd buy a Bugatti if I could afford one, but I'd definitely not buy anything less than an Audi. Taking the 'user' from A to B is not everything, the question is HOW my car takes me from A to B.

And it's the same with computers: Of course the HP gets the job done, too. But the question is, HOW. Is it loaded with bloatware, sluggish and makes it's trackpad hurt my hand and it's display hurt my eyes?

@robertsjoe

"Because Apple then gets to control the hardware. They also then don't end up with having to run their OS on trashy hardware (like much of the PC hardware)."

Absolutely. It's sad that you can't run OS X on non-Apple hardware because Apple's hardware choice is limited, but as long as the other manufacturers only make trashy hardware (and they do), it's probably better for Apple.

@SnakeDoctor

"If you cant afford a Mac, buy a PC. "

And if you can afford a Mac, get a Mac. So what does this ad change? Those who can't afford a Mac would not have bought one anyways, and those who can and want one will still buy one.

"I am a Windows user at work as a Windows System Engineer, and a Mac user for the most part at home.  I have a unibody Macbook, paid $1299 for it and it is he best notebook I have every used.  The fit and finish is second to none.  Its loaded, or at least for the components on a notebook that cant be replaced.  The battery lasts twice as long as my Vista notebook provided by my employer.  The glass trackpad is simply amazing once you have used it, I think every notebook maker should copy it, seriously its that good."

Abolutely. EXACTLY. And that is well worth those 2799$ instead of 799$. Period.

@MLomaslcomm

"Cool or not - I don't need Microsoft to help me add up, and I don't need to be told I'm 'dumb' for spending money on a Mac - for me it's been worth the extra money.  An ad from Microsoft that basically insults me in order to try to change my mind is ... poor."

Exactly. I hate the Apple "Mac vs. PC" ads because they are full of lies and arrogance, but I hate this one even more!

"Lenovo ThinkPad W700ds for Professionals

List Price: $5,553.00

Your Price: $4,659.00

Is there also a "Lenovo tax"?"

Exactly. There is no Lenovo tax. By someone's logic "You always get what you pay for", Lenovo Thinkpad must be better than, at least not worse than Macbook.

"In the meantime, apple is not even running the mac versus PC ads.  "

Oh really... I always though Apple's PC vs Mac ads funny but full of lies.

"Cool or not - I don't need Microsoft to help me add up, and I don't need to be told I'm 'dumb' for spending money on a Mac - for me it's been worth the extra money.  An ad from Microsoft that basically insults me in order to try to change my mind is ... poor."

That's the point of every single ad right? Apple's ads also try to changes users' mind to "switch" from PC to Mac... poor.

""If you cant afford a Mac, buy a PC. "

And if you can afford a Mac, get a Mac. So what does this ad change?"

That's not so true on the other side. I guess Bill Gates could "afford" a Mac but he is not using a mac. In fact a lot of people who can "afford" a mac do not get mac. From the the posts above we just see that you hate ads, whether it is Apple ads or MS ads. That's all. From the ads producers' point of view, "as long as it makes them happy" and they can "afford" producing the ads there is nothing wrong with them.

@maati, I think our world view is completely different!

Are you suggesting that a lotus is the car equivalent of being "loaded with bloatware, sluggish and makes it's trackpad hurt my hand and it's display hurt my eyes?"

The Lotus elise, and exige are renowned for being quite possibly the best handling cars currently in existence. I would rather have an elise, any day, at any price, than an Audi.

Not, that there's anything wrong with Audis, they are great cars, and I would happily own one. But if someone came up to me and offerned me either a free lotus elise, or a free Audi anything, I'd go for the lotus. every time!

Well, the Lotus just looks ugly :)

Audi has that 'aluminium unobody' look, whereas the Lotus looks more like 'HP imprint finish' on cheap plastic casing.

And IMHO, nothing can challenge any VW (Audi, Porsche, Skoda, Seat, Bugatti) in terms of handling. GM, Toyoty, Honda... they all feel cheap, at least to me. I know people who prefer a Toyota over an Audi, but I do not.

The car comparison, however, does not work, because there's more than one quality manufacturer. In the computer world, there's only one (OK, there's Lenovo and some professional laptops, but they're even more expensive as Apple and look ugly).

Amazing...130 posts to an article about a TV ad. Don't you idiots get it? It is advertising. So, Lauren is an actress....wooooo, big news. And all this time, I thought that those guys in the Apple switcher ads really were a PC and a Mac. My world has been crushed. I was still trying to figure out where the keyboard or click wheel or mouse was on them. And all of those NFL moms on the Campbell's Soup ads...I always believed that they were all really the mothers of who they said they were. What about Snap, Crackle, and Pop. Are you telling me that really isn't them making the noises in my bowl of cereal. How will I go on???

All of you who are so loyal to a computer OS are really simple minded...it amazes me!!!

--tayme

Maati, I hope you realise the irony that the Elise actually IS the car equivalent of "aluminium unibody"?

Monocoque aluminium, chassis you know.

Anyway, I have no problem with the build quality of Audis, but their handling leaves a lot to be desired. They're comfortable, sure, but every Audi I've driven 'in anger' so to speak has understeered quite dramatically.

To compare to GM is laughable, they're not regarded as being good at anything at all, in most countries!

But you got my curiosity going, where are you from, maati?

Have you ever driven some achingly cheap, and terribbly built, but fantastic handling French cars?

Serioously, the French have a knack for knocking out seriously cheap cars, that are like party-sized sportscars in terms of handling!

Well and Audi is certainly more practical than a Lotus.  But the Lotus has a very singular design principle and very much a limited purpose kind of vehicle.  You'd be crazy to have a Lotus as your daily driver, but even something like a SL65 Black Series can be a daily driver, in a perverted kind of practical way.  The Lotus really needs to be a second car.  And gorath, I'm pretty sure you'd take the Audi R8 over the Lotus...

So, rj, what is your "taste" in cars?  When you learn to drive, what kind of car do you want?  A Ford Transit?  Vauxhall Agila?

Back on topic, what is missing, once again, from many comments, is that the ads are targeted towards normals that have only heard how bad Windows is from a supposedly cool and hip Emmy award winning *actor* (and never heard how good OS X is either).  The recession hits, people's budgets are restricted.  It's OK, Windows has got your covered.  And we have more than just a lower price.  Go to the WindowsVideos YouTube channel.  We'll hook you up.

And Lenovo mentioned earlier is designed for true professional users, and has a second screen and Wacom tablet on that ds model.  It certainly is not for everyone, but the diversity of the market allows Lenovo to produce the SL, IdeaPad and ThinkPad lines catering to different markets and price points.

"But you got my curiosity going, where are you from, maati?"

Germany, I think that's what you would have guessed ;)

I've driven a bunch of French, Asian... cars. Seat is okay but that's VW, again - lol :D

I prefer comfort. Most of the time, I'm on the 'autobahn'... :D

Well, I realise the irony, but you can't transfer this Lotus/Porsche comparison to computers. Lotus may be acceptable quality despite looking cheap, but that HP laptop in the ad is cheap and cheap quality.

"nothing can challenge any VW"

Now thems some fighting words.  BMW is arguably better in the handling department over Audi.  I'll give them the R8 though.  And certainly the P-cars are great.  A 911 will outhandle anything in it's class.  Bugatti is in a class by itself.

If I were reasonable rich, I'd get a Nissan GTR for sport, RR Phantom for luxury, and a Range Rover for the weather and something like a Honda Accord for driving where these other cars aren't really appropriate.

Most GM's will not compete, although some of the Caddy's are actually quite good.  And let's not forget the Corvette.  Although many will disparage it, performance per dollar it can't be beat.  A ZR1 will give most sports cars a run for their money, all they while costing thousands and thousands less.  Hey, this sounds a little familiar to something that has been discussed lately.  I can't remember what it was, but it was something about value and lower price...

Also, the Lotus is plastic on the outside^^

What you can transfer to computers from the Lotus/Porsche comparison is the part about comfort. It doesn't matter IF a computer gets the job done, but HOW it gets it done. Comfort is often more important than speed, I think SnakeDoctore described that very well:

"I am a Windows user at work as a Windows System Engineer, and a Mac user for the most part at home.  I have a unibody Macbook, paid $1299 for it and it is he best notebook I have every used.  The fit and finish is second to none.  Its loaded, or at least for the components on a notebook that cant be replaced.  The battery lasts twice as long as my Vista notebook provided by my employer.  The glass trackpad is simply amazing once you have used it, I think every notebook maker should copy it, seriously its that good."

I think pudzer said it best:

"they find immense value in applications that fart or tell you how much to tip"

....and that's the problem with American Capitalism.

....or maybe the American educational system....take your pick.

FYI:  Most notebooks with the odd sizes (16.4, 14.8, etc.) are usually true 16:9 screens, not 15:9 like the others, making them truly proper screens for widescreen video.  It's funny that, given how much Apple gloats about their penetration in the multimedia market, they still don't embrace proper multimedia standards.

Dipsh

"You'd be crazy to have a Lotus as your daily driver"

I've been doing that since 1995. First with a 91 Elan and now with a 2005 Elise. Both daily drivers.

But I'm not crazy! No! I'm totally sane! Hahahahahahahaha....

(Seriously, they're actually fine as daily drivers although the Elise requires being a bit limber to get in and out of)

"not 15:9 like the others"

The others are 16:10

"given how much Apple gloats about their penetration in the multimedia market, they still don't embrace proper multimedia standards"

The only reason for 16:9 instead of 16:10 is that the panels are cheaper to make.

16:9 displays are a waste of space, because you need a 16" laptop rather than a 15.4" one in order to provide the same screen real estate for working.

And most people use a laptop for working rather than watching movies.

A realistic comparison of Lotus:Porsche as x:MacBookPro17 would have x be something like an Alienware M17.

And the point of the ad is that in the Windows ecosystem, there are choices for someone like Lauren who wants an economy 17" laptop and choices like a fully loaded M17 that make the MBP17 look like an econobox. With a rich ecosystem you can get what you want rather than justifying why you needed to buy features you didn't want or needed to live without features you needed.

Or, put another way, Porsche may make cars that are a wonderful choice for a small group of people but for most people they're not going to be a good fit.

Expecting everyone to only choose from one limited range and saying "pick the one that's closest to what you need and deal with it" is not as good a choice as saying "there's a vast range of choices from many manufacturers so there's sure to be a good match for whatever your needs actually are"

"The others are 16:10"

My mistake.  It was desktop widescreen monitors are used to be 15:9 though.  That's why you have resolutions like 1280x768 and the like.

"The only reason for 16:9 instead of 16:10 is that the panels are cheaper to make."

Ya, you know, cuz they were making widescreen laptops before widescreen TV's.  </sarcasm>

The Audi R8 really is very nice. but I'd still go for an elise (or more specifically, an exige) over it, given the choice.

See, I live out of the cities, and get to drive along fantastic twisty, winding B-roads every single day of my life :)

A suziki GSX-R 1000 would be my first choice, but practicality means that the Exige would be (marginally) better!

"16:9 displays are a waste of space, because you need a 16" laptop rather than a 15.4" one in order to provide the same screen real estate for working."

FAIL!

You actually get an extra 2&2/3 square inches of space to work with, not to mention that most 16" laptops also come with a numeric keypad, which completely shoots apart your "less productivity" argument.

gorath

Speaking as a long-time Lotus owner (4 Lotuses so far), I'd have to say that when the Exige is your choice because it's practical, you've moved very, very close to the edge.

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