SuperSite Blog

Nice to see it finally on the outside.

I didn't think they let you on the outside, galos.

Whoever came up with the name should be fired. Wow. Bing? That's the best they could do?

I liked Kumo better.

I also think Kumo is a lot better. I don't really like either of the names IMO.

Naming aside, the results look impressive.  I like that the travel thing is like having an Expedia subset site built into search.

Any plans for mobile yet?

does this company have an original thought?

Bing looks like it does a good job on generalist queries.   How does it perform on precise queries like IT-related problems or obscure problems?

Stuff like message boards or knowledge bases.

Geesh, nice comments. So now the Apple morons have moved over to Google and just slam anything Microsoft.

Nice.

Once again, you could slap an Apple logo on this and you guys would be in love.

So once again, using the best tool available doesn't make sense to you. It's all about the Apple.

I'm eager to try it out and compare. Competition is good!

Just curious if Bing means anything silly in foreign languages like Zune does....

Or Kumo for that matter.

Something interesting:

The word for "bing" translates to 冰 in Chinese, which is the same glyph for "ice".

Isn't "bing" the sound that tells you it's safe to remove your seat belts when the plane lands? Or is that more like a "ping"?

"Isn't "bing" the sound that tells you it's safe to remove your seat belts when the plane lands?"

According to Google Translate, "bing" is the Japanese word for "cooking in a microwave".  In North American, that's known as "nukeing" (I doubt the Japanese like using that term), so it's a bit contrary to the Chinese definition.

Bing let's you decide where you want to go out to eat.

"What are you doing?"

"I'm binging to decide where to eat tonight."

Gives a new meaning to "binging", I guess.

It is a lonely Friday night and I have no idea what to do, I guess I'll go home and bing it.

The thought of cherries comes to mind...now, what could we construe from cherries? I wonder what you would find if you binged "cherry"?

--tayme

"I wonder what you would find if you binged "cherry"?"

Wouldn't the word be "banged" there? ;-)

Bing it on, beeeaaatch. I kid!!!

@shark/Waethorn/hamiltonstallings - I'm gonna bet that Paul does some moderating on this thread  soon!  ;-)

--tayme

@tayme:

why?

We're all on-topic.

One question about it though:  What's the deal with the images in the background?  Are they random?  Can you set them?  Or are they based on search tracking?

Something interesting going on here too:

Microsoft is using some nice AJAX stuff on here, what with integration to Live Maps (is that still the name?).

When you figure that the iPhone 3rd-party developer support was supposed to be entirely AJAX web apps, it's funny that so much of the Google location information is still standard application code with custom Google API's and almost nothing is pure AJAX running in a browser or HTML app.  Microsoft is essentially embracing what Apple said they would, but didn't.

I'm wondering if Microsoft will leverage more AJAX with this and Windows Mobile in WM7....

"I didn't think they let you on the outside, galos."

They don't let him in the inside anymore.

@Waethorn,

I have the same question. But it would be really cool if it was somehow based on search. Like if you searched for 'surfing', you got a nice picture of an ocean or something. I doubt it, but it would be neat.

"The word for "bing" translates to 冰 in Chinese, which is the same glyph for "ice"."

In Canada it stands for "poutine", so Wae's gonna be all over this like a sesame seed on a McDonald's bun.

Back on topic: This actually doesn't look bad. I mean, if you're gonna stand up and shout "Me Too!", you might as well at least have something to back it up. Looks like they may have gotten a lot closer this time.

@losta:

Once again, you've proven yourself a complete troll.

You provide nothing relevent here.  Go away.

"When you figure that the iPhone 3rd-party developer support was supposed to be entirely AJAX web apps"

As you would say, Wae, "WRONG!"

From the beginning, Apple indicated that there would be third-party apps, and that web apps were a stopgap. I know you know this...but you'd rather live in your little WinJihadist fantasy.

To wit: Steve Jobs at the D Conference, May 30th 2007:

"… we’ll find a way to let 3rd parties write apps and still preserve security on the iPhone. ...If you can just be a little more patient with us I think everyone can get what they want."

www.engadget.com/.../steve-jobs-live-from-d-2007

Again, that was on May 30, 2007. The iPhone was introduced June 29, 2007. So a full month before its introduction, Apple (through Jobs) was indicating that there would be a 3rd party SDK. That's hardly saying, "iPhone 3rd-party developer support was supposed to be entirely AJAX web apps".

Quit making sh1t up, Wae. It's eroding your already thin-ice credibility.

Gee, Lotsa,

I was on Microsoft Campus most of Tuesday afternoon.

When was the last time you got out of your basement?

(On the other hand, it IS amusing how little I have to post here to remain a major topic of discussion and annoyance to the more insane of the fanatic wing. Keep it up. Fame is fun.)

"I was on Microsoft Campus most of Tuesday afternoon."

Hanging around the hot dog stand and peering through cracks in the door doesn't count.   :-)

I kid. I'm a kidder.

The place wouldn't be the same without you, mg@msn. I'm glad we can make your life just a little more enjoyable in return.

Uh Oh Apple fanatics:

Steve Wozniak likes Bing:

finance.yahoo.com/.../Woz-Bing!-Apple-Co-Founder-a-%22Big-Fan%22-of-Microsofts-New-Search-Engine

"That was the most astounding software demo I've every seen," Wozniak tells Tech Ticker after seeing Microsoft CEO Steve Ballmer unveiled Bing at the All Things Digital Conference here.

"Apple indicated that there would be third-party apps, and that web apps were a stopgap."

Stop playing Apple apologist and history revisionist losta.

The webapps were the only option Apple wanted to give to developers until they were torn a new one at WWDC.

"Apple (through Jobs) was indicating that there would be a 3rd party SDK"

Nowhere does he mention one.  You're the one making stuff up.

"Again, that was on May 30, 2007."

Fast forward to June 11, and Jobs stood in front of developers at WWDC and told them to use Ajax and CSS to develop apps.  That was the only mention of 3rd-party development options at WWDC:

www.macworld.com/.../iphoneapps.html

The so-called "stop-gap" issue was something that Apple wanted to judge reactions on.  Steve never even announced an SDK at that WWDC.  They had no solution available at launch and probably had no intention of releasing an SDK were it not for developers drilling them for one at WWDC and after launch knowing that AJAX would limit their options, otherwise Apple could've announced developer support and early beta access.  Instead, they didn't announce an SDK until March of 2008.

So Apple DID NOT indicate that third-party apps were going to be available from the start.

You are so full of manure that you could keep an Alberta farm fertilized for the summer.

"I kid. I'm a kidder."

You are a kid.

@hamiltonstallings:

"It is a lonely Friday night and I have no idea what to do, I guess I'll go home and bing it."

Maybe if you didn't stay indoors browsing the internet on a Friday night, you wouldn't BE alone :)

(Just kidding, of course, I don't actually think us geeks belong in the 'outside')

Wae, apparently you can't read. Or listen. Or pay attention.

Shall I repeat it for you again?

"… we’ll find a way to let 3rd parties write apps and still preserve security on the iPhone. ...If you can just be a little more patient with us I think everyone can get what they want."

Get. Over. Yourself.

Lotsa,

You are completely and totally wrong.

Apple offered only the option of AJAX as a developer option when iPhone came out. Nothing else except for a hand-picked select group of partners (like Google). And the developers at WWDC were told effectively to pound sand.

Read ANY contemporaneous stories from any source and that's clear.

The only difference in the coverage was the reaction ranging from horror and shock from those who had a clue about development and felt that Apple had once again screwed over their developers to parroting the line that "AJAX is fine for anything and Apple should preserve the integrity of the platform" from the hopelessly brainwashed (who apparently now pretend it didn't happen like every other Apple 180 that became "doubleplus unfact" in Apple's best Orwellian "goodfact vs truefact" style).

"...if you're gonna stand up and shout "Me Too!", you might as well at least have something to back it up. Looks like they may have gotten a lot closer this time."

According to CNet, it's even better:

"Google keeps improving in the area of in-search collation and display as well, but Bing makes Google look complacent, and that's not good for Google. For the moment, Bing's on top in this game. Try this search engine. I do not think you will regret it. "

news.cnet.com/8301-17939_109-10251432-2.html

"… we’ll find a way to let 3rd parties write apps and still preserve security on the iPhone. "

....and he answered that with statement a few days later at WWDC:  Web apps with AJAX and CSS.

Nowhere did he mention an SDK for native apps.  NOWHERE.

Show me where he specifically said that - you can't.

And.  Using.  A.  Single.  Word.  For.  Each.  Sentence.  Doesn't.  Make.  You.  Any.  Less.  Wrong.

@mike:

I do recall they even called Safari "the developer platform for the iPhone" somewhere during WWDC 07.

@Waethorn; hamiltonstallings: I think the background image has no meaning, just eye-candy? It's been on Live Search for a while.

@hamiltonstallings: I like the idea of having a image background based on the search.

_

I don't like the name but I guess Microsoft was going for something catching, like, say, oh... I don't know. Google, perhaps? ;-) "Bing it" has ring to it better than "Kumo it", it rolls off the tongue.

Usually when I want to shop for something I head on over to Amazon, so I don't know if I'll use Bing for it's shopping but I'll give it a spin.

@Thurrott: I thought there were no news today? ;-) (Well, that's what I saw when I came to the SuperSite earlier.)

@wae

"You need to go into the "All users" option on the compatibility tab, then elevate the all user privileges to admin level."

Okay, I've done that. Turned on "requires admin access" option in the shortcut properties not only for myself, but for all users too. Had to answer UAC prompt for that too, as expected.

You know what? The app STILL BRINGS UP THE DAMN UAC DIALOG EVERY TIME I RUN IT.

Will you acknowledge now that you know nothing about Windows Vista basics, Wae? ;-)

Here it is in all the truthful glory, losta:

www.youtube.com/watch

"The app STILL BRINGS UP THE DAMN UAC DIALOG EVERY TIME I RUN IT."

That app doesn't have a valid digital certificate.  What is the app?

The app is called Abit AirPace, it's a Wi-Fi SoftAP utility for my desktop's Abit AirPace Wi-Fi card.

Can I add the certificate myself?

Where can I read about UAC and digital certificate interaction? Never heard that UAC could be turned off this way.

Can I use that digital certificate trick to shut UAC off for a few select admin-access-requiring apps that I run regularly?

Terrible name. One letter of bong.com.

Then again, Microsoft is not known for much (other than being evil). Especially not their naming.

The most important thing about this is that Google has nothing to worry about. Absolutely nothing to worry about.

What's with the decorative wallpaper background?  Microsoft has a tendency to over engineer everything they do to the point where it becomes distracting.  The beauty of Google is in it's simplicity.

Bing is the final part of 'badda bing', so it seems appropriate. See below.

"badda bing"  A common phrase usually used by an Italian when you are excited or ancy. Also, is uses as an exclamation

www.urbandictionary.com/define.php

@DRWAM isn't the term "Bada Bing" followed by a really bad joke where no one laughs?  I see a guy standing there hands/arms in a wide open expression leaning forward, smile on his face waiting for someone to laugh at the joke.....crickets chirp.

On topic, I think is looks really great visually.  Google is boring but super efficient .  Only testing will tell.  Google blew away Live search when I needed to use it for real searching.  IT people will know pretty fast.  Google has become my first support call these days and has not let me often.

@mikegalos - I'm glad to see you acknowledge that Apple listened and delivered what their customers wanted.

--tayme

"Microsoft today will announce Bing (previously codenamed "Kumo"), it's next generation Windows Live Search service."

Interesting branding message here, they've removed anything that associates Bing/Kumo with "Windows".

Same problem as in all the laptop hunter ads. They know they have brand issues, so are now avoiding not just the Vista label, but also Windows.

I was surprised that the bing video demo was in flash (using Firefox and Chrome).  I opened bing.com in IE8 expecting to see the video in Silverlight but instead got nothing.  

@a:

Digitally-signed apps are treated differently from signed apps.  And no, you can't digitally sign code without being the original developer as well as having access to the source code to recompile it.

Abit is notorious for not digitally signing drivers and apps though, so I'm not really surprised that you're having problems with it.  Why Fatal1ty allowed his name to grace their hardware is beyond comprehension.

Judging by what you want to do there may be other options though.  I'll have a look into that.

"One letter of bong.com."

That's the best compliment they can receive, short of naming it that!  ;)

"A common phrase usually used by an Italian "

The full phrase is: "Badda bing, badda bang, badda boom.", used like "Ta da", as in a conclusionary "There you have it".

@a:

What is the wireless controller chip maker in that wireless adapter?

If you don't know, grab the longest Hardware ID from the Resources tab in the device properties sheet in Device Manager.  I can look it up from that.  If it's the same as another maker, you can use another driver or app for it.  Common controller makers are Atheros, Marvell, Realtek, etc.  Abit only made the card, but the drivers will have been written by the original controller chip maker.  A compatible app may require a driver from another vendor though.  If it's the same as one of the Asus cards, for instance, you could use one of their drivers and AP apps instead.

Actually, the definition provided does not agree with your own. I guess that you need to be Italian to understand;) Didn't you ever see the Sopranos?

Doc

"What's with the decorative wallpaper background?"

That's where the innovation in bing lays. In the background.

As for not using Silverlight in the demo... that shows how little confidence they have in their own product. No better way to get people to use it than to put it on there. But they don't. Because people won't bother to download Silverlight.

tayme

"@mikegalos - I'm glad to see you acknowledge that Apple listened and delivered what their customers wanted. "

Partly. Let's look at some cases:

Developers wanted the same SDK that Apple and their favored partners got. They didn't get it but did get a subset missing key functionality. (Score that as partly responding to the developer partners)

Developers wanted freedom to develop what they wanted. They got an opaque approval program that blocked apps that competed with Apple or their favored partners. (Score that as a no)

Developers wanted to distribute through multiple channels. They got a license that gave Apple total control over their air supply. (Score that as a no)

Developers wanted a controlled review system for the Apple store rather than popularity based listings open to flooding. They got price pressure that drove the profit out of the market so that the only way to compete was to make less than a dollar for an app no matter how complex. And a "reviewing process" that tends to favor flashlights, tip calculators and fart apps. (Score that as a disaster)

Developers wanted the ability to ship demos so that people could try apps before buying them. Apple said no way. (Score that as damaging to everyone involved but Apple)

Developers wanted equity on refunds so that when the people who had to buy their app when they couldn't try it first could get a refund with no cost to the customer or the developer. They got a system where every refund meant the developer paid Apple their cut no matter what and so they lost money on every return - even the ones their competitors bought and returned just to screw with them. (Call that a total disaster)

Developers wanted their customers to be able to unlock the phones they'd paid for if the Apple straightjacket was too tight or the customer wanted to run an app that didn't get blessed by the often arbitrary Apple "review" process. Their customers got bricked phones if they dared to cross Apple and threats that it would be done to them again whenever Apple felt like enforcing their control over their customers. (Score that as a heavy handed no)

So, when it hurt Apple badly enough, they were willing to do a total 180 and count on their fanatics to pretend that was the plan all along while ignoring all the other limits. And when it was in Apple's best interests, they did what they've historically done to all their partners and that sure isn't "listening to them".

But, hey, you'll probably not remember any of that...

DRWAM

"I guess that you need to be Italian to understand;)"

Not necessarily true. But spending time in New York or New Jersey does help if you aren't...

And yet the iPhone is an unqualified success or are you saying that it isn't Mike?

^ This should be an interesting response.

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After thinking about it more, Bing is better than Kumo, since it can be used to describe the process, whereas Kumo could not as easily..  Since "Google it" is such a part of the average lexicon, you can't see "Kumo it", but you could hear "Bing it".  Better than I thought.  The stuff looks impressive, but time will tell.  

I've been switching between Live Search and Google for some time now.  In either case, the search results are not that different, and they both have strengths and weaknesses.  I like Live Maps much better than Google Maps, but the breadth of different search areas and extensions such as CustomizeGoogle make that better for some tasks.

I used to live near where the "Bada Bing" was/is located on Route 17 in Hasbrouck Heights.

In terms of the dropping of Windows from Windows Live, I would argue, as I'm sure that they did, that it just muddied the waters and confused people, which it did.  It had nothing to do with dropping the Windows brand because it was tarnished, but rather, it was just plain confusing, and quite frankly, dumb.  Let's hope that with this renaming, that they actually stay with it for a long time, like, you know, forever.  You can't convey a brand if you keep on changing the names, which MS has been notorious at doing here.

I think some of you need to ask yourself what value to you actually bring to these discussions?

A few of you really need to grow up. Do you really think you're being taken seriously? Do you like others having zero respect for you? Do you like presenting yourself as a moron? If you expect to make it in the I.T. industry, you need to grow up.

Wae and lotsa,

Can we sign you guys up for Wrestlemania 26th and end the constant bickering between you two? God, you both sound worse than a husband and wife.

Jeez.

"Jeez."

losta would put a [sic] beside that and say that it's spelled "Geez", short for "Gee whiz".

@sub:

Besides that, I was only telling the truth.  If losta wants to dispute the truth and make himself look like a fool when I correct him, then so be it.

The point was not about making Apple look silly (they do a good enough job doing that on their own), it was this:

"Something interesting going on here too:

Microsoft is using some nice AJAX stuff on here, what with integration to Live Maps (is that still the name?).

When you figure that the iPhone 3rd-party developer support was supposed to be entirely AJAX web apps, it's funny that so much of the Google location information is still standard application code with custom Google API's and almost nothing is pure AJAX running in a browser or HTML app.  Microsoft is essentially embracing what Apple said they would, but didn't.

I'm wondering if Microsoft will leverage more AJAX with this and Windows Mobile in WM7...."

Ok, well maybe it does make Apple look silly.  Anyway, I'd like to see more of this on Windows Mobile 7.  AJAX is good on a mobile platform if done correctly, but Apple doesn't "get" it yet.  Instead, they did a 180 and copped-out/gave-in/failed-to-deliver/etc. on the web app platform - take your pick.  I think Palm webOS is headed into territory that Apple couldn't go.

I'd like to see Microsoft leverage Expression Studio, XAML, and Silverlight towards the mobile space too.

FWIW, I'd also like to see a list of developers that decided to use AJAX and CSS for web apps tailored to the iPhone.

"@mikegalos - I'm glad to see you acknowledge that Apple listened and delivered what their customers wanted. "

mg@msn will never acknowledge that. He's still fuming that the App Store has been such a success for both developers and customers in such a short period of time. Yes, Mikey, the developers hate Apple which is why WWDC sold out (again) in record time (again) this year. That's why the App Store is racking up sales that leave whatever competition it has in the dust. That's why Microsoft, Palm, RIM and others are scrambling to catch up to Apple.

To read his post, you'd think it was (and is) an unmitigated disaster, which couldn't be further from the truth. "Revisionist Mikey" needs to take off his WinJihadist™ brand spectacles.

Dude

Somewhat successful? Sure.

"Unqualified success"? Hardly.

Imagine what would have occurred if they hadn't abused their developers. I know that I hear developers saying "Android or Palm Pre or WinMo - anybody but Apple" more and more lately which is NOT where you want to be when your "unqualified success" has only resulted in capturing 11% of the market in two years (and that's using the pro-Apple numbers).

Do you think treating partners badly has no reprecussions or are you claiming Apple hasn't treated developers badly? Seeing which justification of Apple's policies you're going to fall back on should be an "interesting response"

lotsa

I did respond. No need for you to continue revising history by telling people what I would say when I already said it. Guess you prefer debating a straw man of your own creation to a reasoned response. No surprise, it's what you're used to in the Apple echo chamber.

What I didn't see was you responding to revising history or all those ways Apple abused their partners and the likely costs in the long run.

I hate the name but I thought Google sounded pretty stupid when I first heard it so what do I know. Cnet gives it a good review so that's encouraging, (thanks to Shark for that one) I use Live search as well as a few others once in a while but I usually end up on Google. I'm not sure why Microsoft pursues this at all, why not concentrate on their strengths?

But I'm glad they make the Zune and the Xbox they probably make more profit on search so what the heck.

"it's what you're used to in the Apple echo chamber."

@mike:

In Steve Jobs's's defence, he might've had no clue about the backlash from developers when he told them to make web apps instead of native apps.

He might have just as well said "let them eat cake".

Ignorant or evil - take your pick.

whiplash

" I thought Google sounded pretty stupid when I first heard it "

And I hate that they've taught an entire generation to misspell googol.

waethorn

It's not as though this is the first example (well, first dozen or so). Apple has a very long tradition of abusing their partners including 3rd party developers.