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Yes, I've installed 7137 and 7201 and they are both extremely, boringly stable with no new features or obvious differences with the RC. It seems like any of these builds could easily have been the RTM. I wonder what they're waiting for? It must simply be that they want to get as close to 100% software/hardware compatibility as possible. Commendable but probably unnecessary at this stage.

At this point in the dev cycle - post RC - I'd expect to see very little change except for bug fixes and maybe some updated drivers. The bar for getting new code into the build this late is set very, very high and anything not meeting that bar will likely be postponed for a service pack or Microsoft Update patch rather than risk destablizing the build.

i guess the main difference we'll see with the RTM will be the end of the Betta Fish and possibly a shiny new colour scheme, including new background & lock screen? Can't see much else changing really, it will all be 'behind the scenes stuff' presumably...

I recall sometime back on Windows Weekly, Paul mentioning that he thought Microsoft might change the UI, he's seems to have laid off of that for now.

He also mention on Windows Weekly, that Microsoft would drastically change Windows 7, I don't see anything like that from Beta to RC.

There seems to be some other things, such as the Min Win Kernel that haven't been addressed.

And what about the big surprises in store for the final release?

Joe,

What I said was that I'd heard from two TAP customers that Microsoft planned a UI change, a new UI skin, post-RC. Obviously, we've not seen that and I've not heard anything new one way or the other.

MinWIn has been addressed,and long go: It is part of Windows 7 as Microsoft has already admitted.

The "big surprise" I mentioned earlier was XP Mode. People try to downplay this, but a fully licensed copy of XP that you get for free with Windows 7 is indeed a big deal, as is the compatibility effects of that inclusion.

Any other questions?

I'm pretty happy with all the current features that are in the RC. I'll be very surprised if they actually add anything else into it from now until they ship.

Any reason why I should or should not get the 64-bit version of 7 instead of 32-bit when it ships?

I know some people say there's no point for getting 64 if you have >4GB of RAM, but would it be worth getting for future-proofing even if you have >4GB?

"I recall sometime back on Windows Weekly, Paul mentioning that he thought Microsoft might change the UI, he's seems to have laid off of that for now."

Perhaps you didn't read his crying over the new taskbar and how he hates combining active and inactive programs together.

A new UI skin wouldn't much surprise me. I think it would help keep average consumers who may not understand the real differences between Vista and 7 from making superficial comparisons, as it wouldn't appear so similar to Vista if the skin was changed. And it obviously wouldn't be hard to do.

Just fix Media Center, people. There's something wrong with the DRM scheme. It's a little better than the Beta. In Win 7 Beta I wasn't even able to watch movies.

Also, Paul, I'm thoroughly enjoying the Windows Weekly podcast. ( I have been listening since October 2007 ).

You're in the top 2 of 15 podcasts that I look forward to listen to.

I don't care if that sounds like I'm sucking up.

Wae

Of course, if you don't want any inactive apps on the new taskbar you can remove the ones that are there and not add any. And you can create a new taskbar and put shortcuts on it for favorites (just as you could in earlier versions) and end up with a very similar UI.

With these, you get the normal taskbar showing active apps (as before) and a favorites folder for quick launch (again as before)

A pretty flexible system.

@ kenmcnamee

I actually hope that they keep working on it alittle longer. I have a few problems with some of my media cetner pcs. Two of them dells new boutgh with vista they wont find the IR Blaster so I can't use them to watch/record live tv. The other problems is with lenovo laptops they wont allways turn off compleatly. I have reported these problems since beta and so far no fix. So thats four computers that I wont be able to install windows 7 untill that is fixed.

Grannyville - make sure your chips are x64 compatible!

Waethorn - kinda rude aren't ya? do you speak like that to people's faces or is it just easier to 'big and cool' on the internet?

I only have one simple request for Windows 7...I wish it would support the use of different wallpapers on multiple displays.

MS needs to adds native support for mounting ISO files like OS X/Linux does.  I cant imagine these needs a license or anything.

"People try to downplay this, but a fully licensed copy of XP that you get for free with Windows 7 is indeed a big deal, as is the compatibility effects of that inclusion."

Sorry its not a big deal.  Free version of a 8 year old OS, running in VPC and only for certain versions of 7, and its totally targeted at business.

"Big Surprise" would have been free upgrades to Vista users.

stimshady - Cheers! : )

The only bug I have is just sleep/hibernation on my desktop machine. However, it works fine on my laptop so I think the problem is hardware related.

The only thing I would change, agreeing with what Paul T. has said in the past, is to change the default taskbar to 'Combine when full' instead of  'Always combine'.

I just preferred it that way in my opinion.

Also, more wallpaper choices. I love to have loads of choice for wallpapers.

I would really like the option to use third-party codecs in Windows Media Player and Media Center. I've pretty much had to stop using Media Center in favor of ZoomPlayer because the Media Center codecs frequently cause the audio and video to go slightly out of sync for TV shows that I've downloaded.

I'm pretty happy with Win7. The more I use the taskbar and Start Menu the more I like it, and I always used to switch my interface to classic mode.

I'd like to see an option or reghack to move the Aero Peek 'icon' from the bottom right to the bottom left, where the old 'show desktop' icon used to be.

I've had a bad time with offline files in the RC as well...so I'm willing to keep letting them work on 7 before they RTM it ;-)

My main problems are that it doesn't seem to respect "Administratively Assigned Offline files" when set through a domain Group Policy, though it works if you set the same data in gpedit.msc on the local machine.  Also, I had an odd issue a few weeks ago where some files (which are available offline, but should have been online at the time) suddenly went offline and wouldn't sync back.  Eventually, it deleted BOTH versions (computer and network versions), and even now remains a little two-headed (some files are still labeled as offline).

Now, I haven't re-initialized the offline files database, and I'm not really complaining.  I'm just saying, it's not perfect yet, give 'em time...GPO issues would be serious if they persisted in RTM.  Though I admit, once the FTP stuff was fixed post-beta, and other than the issue I mentioned, 7RC has been amazingly stable.

I even started playing with the RSS-based wallpaper slideshow stuff yesterday...it made me smile all over again and love 7 just a little more ;-)  It's basic, yes...but it's very cool.

@Lindy

"Sorry its not a big deal.  Free version of a 8 year old OS, running in VPC and only for certain versions of 7, and its totally targeted at business."

I guess you've been under a rock. Windows XP is the most popular and used OS in the world.

@grannyville

"I know some people say there's no point for getting 64 if you have >4GB of RAM, but would it be worth getting for future-proofing even if you have >4GB?"

On the contrary, if you have >4GB of RAM you have to have 64 to utilize the extra RAM. Even though I build my own computers, when I go to the local shops to *** around, I always find they are selling PC's with win64 on them. When win7 hits, I think I will go 64.

Lindy

'"Big Surprise" would have been free upgrades to Vista users.'

And a free pony for people named Lindy.

hamilton

I think grannyville got the less than and greater than symbols reversed and that sentence was meant to be, "I know some people say there's no point for getting 64 if you have less than 4GB of RAM, but would it be worth getting for future-proofing even if you have  less than 4GB?"

(In which case, I'd agree that if your hardware is 64-bit, this seems to be the time to abandon the 32-bit only world. Even if you don't have 4GB+ of RAM, you likely will soon enough.)

I'm extremely satisfied with Windows 7 RC. It does everything I expect and then goes beyond that. I am not expecting anything major or new in Post RC builds. If they are going to do a new UI theme, you absolutely know they're keeping that a tightly sealed secret and will keep that close to the vest. I doubt we'll see this new UI in any of the Post RC builds. It will probably be only seen in the RTM build.

If I remember correctly, because of Vista, Microsoft was planning some post RTM testing of the next version of Windows. I'm assuming that meant Windows 7. I bet those testers of the RTM build will see the new UI, but I bet they'll have to sign NDA agreements.

Paul, do you know if they're planning to test Windows 7 post RTM?

Pingback from  Windows 7 Blog » Windows 7 builds 7137 and 7201

@hamiltonstallings - Cheers : )

@mikegalos - What are your opinions on Windows 7? I'm sure you've mentioned it some time in a past blog post but I've only just joined and quite curious on your opinion, if you don't mind :)

@mikegalos - also,  cheers for your input :)

I use the 64-bit version of 7 with 2 GB of RAM, and it works fine.  I plan on upgrading my desktop to 4 GB, and keep my laptop at 2.  In either case, I can't think of any reason not to go with 64-bit assuming you have some reasonable hardware.  The only cases for 32-bit is when your hardware doesn't support it, maybe if you have less than 2 GB of RAM, and when you have an app that will just not work on 64-bit.  But, then see XP Mode.

And while I was also waiting for something breathtaking when Paul was holding out on the XP Mode feature, it does in fact remove any last reasons not to upgrade from XP.  That and the better performance of 7 make it an easy jump for corporate customers as well as regular consumers.

"And a free pony for people named Lindy."

That's funny.

I wouldn't mind a free or a cheap upgrade, though. I've got two retail copies of Vista. Does anyone know if you can upgrade from Vista Ultimate or Vista Business to 7 Home Premium?

I'm quite chuffed I joined up now. People have been really helpful.

Clever these little blog things

I tried Win7 64, thinking I would finally make the change, only to run into problem after problem, typcially with all of the old 32-bit software I tried to run (some ran fine, some didn't) and all of the printers I have on my network.  

For a home user or small office, I see the benifits of 64-bit without a doubt.  But when you manage a network with all 32-bit pc's, it's hard having one or two computers be 64-bit.  In my limited experience, at least.

Does Windows 7 allow hte /PAE switch in the boot config?  I know Windows 2003 server does.

Then you can run a 32-bit OS with more than 4 gigs.

"And a free pony for people named Lindy."

Or a case of greshen formula and six pack of slim fast if your name is Galos?

"Any reason why I should or should not get the 64-bit version of 7 instead of 32-bit when it ships?

I know some people say there's no point for getting 64 if you have >4GB of RAM, but would it be worth getting for future-proofing even if you have >4GB?"

Really only two reasons:

1)  If you only have 1GB of RAM (x64 requires 2GB, unlike Vista which will work on 1GB, although I don't recommend it)

2)  If you're using an Atom netbook or other processor that doesn't support x64.  Atom nettop processors (currently, the 230 and 330 - which don't have Z or N letters beforehand) both support x64, but make sure you follow the previous point and have at least 2GB installed.

Remember that Atom systems with Intel chipsets (the 945GC or 945GSE, depending on whether it's netbook or nettop-based) only support a maximum of 2GB of DDR2-667 (I think) of RAM anyway, and only in single-channel.  The NVIDIA Ion platform, such as what is used on the Zotac nettop IONITX motherboard, supports a maximum of 4GB DDR2-800 in dual-channel.  The Ion platform itself can also support DDR3 RAM, but the only DIY part shipping with Ion right now is the Zotac board.  Name-brand OEM's may be already supporting DDR3 in their customized hardware though.

It's safe to say that if you are building a system, you should target it towards 64-bit.  32-bit is something that you'll only find with lower-end name-brand systems.

If you want to know if XYZ hardware is compatible, just list it and we'll be happy to answer.

shark

"Does anyone know if you can upgrade from Vista Ultimate or Vista Business to 7 Home Premium?"

Microsoft hasn't announced pricing yet but seeing how every version of Windows since Windows 2 has had a discount for people upgrading from the previous version it's a pretty safe bet that will continue.

(For those wondering about what happened before Windows 2, there was no Windows to ugrade from with Windows 1. The scary thing is that some might not find that obvious.)

Grannyville,

I'm sure this will get lots of posts (primarily from Microsoft bashers) who will tell you that I uniformly like anything made by Microsoft and hate anything by anyone else. It isn't true but they'll say it anyway.

That said, I've been fairly happy with Windows 7. It's added some nice tweaks to Windows Vista without being a major change in the underlying OS itself. I think of it as part two of the transition from Windows XP. Vista had the architectural upgrades but held off on major changes to the UI (although a lot was there - much of which people didn't know about - intentionally). Windows 7 adds the UI changes that, if combined with Vista's major rewrites, would have pushed the transition beyond people's comfort level.

Of course, it's more complex than that but that's a good quick summary. Feel free to contact me via email or Live Messenger (my address should be fairly obvious)

And thanks for the nice comments.

XP Mode = VPC running a XP VM in Windows 7.

If this is such a "big deal", why haven't corporations, with software agreements installed VPC7 with a XP VM in Vista, so they could move to Vista?  Its essentially the same thing.

The answer it simple.  If you are doing things right then that XP VM is just another workstation that needs to be maintained., patching, anti-malware software, management software etc.  Add to that it will eat up at least 512megs of RAM, so now your Vista/7 box needs more resources.

I am betting that outside of a few examples, mostly installed by MS resellers/partners, that medium-big corporations will move to 7 when all of their applications have been certified, and not deal with XP mode.

For consumers there is simply no reason to run XP mode.  I am sure some hobbyist's will, those that want to play some game from 1998 that wont work with Vista/7 and requires nothing better than the lame graphics that VPC and other VM solutions provide.  Most people would rather switch to a different app that works under Vista/7 that performs the same function as their old XP only app.

@kenmcnamee:

Your issues with the codecs are curious. I have no problem using 3rd party codecs in media center or media player in Vista (using Nvidia's Purevideo for the most part) but I haven't tried them in 7 yet.

But, for what it's worth, my downloaded TV shows from the BBC or E4 play back fine under media center in 7.

de Silentio, PAE allows the use of more than 4 gigs of RAM, but with a performance hit.

However, the nature of the performance doesn't hit servers as noticeable as a desktop machine (so I've been told).

PAE can also cause some weird compatability issues.

"I'm sure this will get lots of posts (primarily from Microsoft bashers) who will tell you that I uniformly like anything made by Microsoft and hate anything by anyone else. It isn't true but they'll say it anyway."

I will be the first to say it.  You have Mike on the Microsoft far left or right or whatever and robertsjoe on the Apple far left or right or whatever.  Everyone else is somewhere in between.

"Does Windows 7 allow hte /PAE switch in the boot config?  I know Windows 2003 server does.

Then you can run a 32-bit OS with more than 4 gigs."

It's disabled by default because of stability issues caused by incompatibilities.  Moreso than migrating to 64-bit.

If you want to run with more than 4GB of RAM, use 64-bit instead.  If you can't because of compatibility reasons, get on the horn with your software and hardware vendors to fully certify their stuff for Vista.  If they do, it'll work on both.  If they don't want to for whatever reason, then ask them why they're dragging you behind.

"kinda rude aren't ya? do you speak like that to people's faces or is it just easier to 'big and cool' on the internet?"

Not really.  Paul is making a big assumption that the change is there for no reason and that users will find it hard to adapt.  What it also assumes is that Microsoft themselves never do their own UX testing and user case studies.  Instead, he mocks their value proposal by defining "users" in general as people that he knows that he personally thinks would have a hard time with the change.  I'm sure that handful of people that he *thinks* would have issues would pale in comparison to the numerous people that Microsoft has had testing it both internally, externally, as well as TAP members, and the general public that they get to perform usage test cases on in their testing research labs.

As Mike says, it's a very flexible system.  If you don't like it, you can change it.  But I would wager that the number of people that would recommend that you change it to the exact same alternate options over and over again are very small.  They found the option that worked for the majority of users and developed it.  They still left customization options in for those that are complacent with the old methodology too.

Mike, I think the upgrade question was specifically regarding going from a "higher end" version of Vista, to a "lower end" version of 7. for example, from Vista Ultimate, to 7 Home Premium.

My assumption (which could well be incorrect) is that a "windows 7 home premium upgrade" licence, will allow you to go from ANY version of Vista to win7 home premium.

Anyway, as for some of the niceties that Vista (or the NT6 generation) bought about, I have to say, that I love search folders.

I use them so regularly that when I had to work on an XP machine without them today, I felt a bit lost!

Search folders (or virtual folders / saved searches) are the mostest awesomest things to happen to windows in a long time, and can help you work much much faster, once set up.

Grannyville, I ran into problems with sleep. Dell Studio shipped in April with Vista 64 bit. Win 7 was OK with sleep until one day it started waking itself shortly after either auto- or manual sleep.

I started using shutdown instead, then noticed that the problem started after I accepted a Microsoft update driver for the NIC. A look at a suitable MS forum hinted at the solution: turn off the feature which allows wake from LAN. Since I don't need that active, I turned it off and sleep has been fine.

It would almost certainly also have worked to roll back the driver update.

That, I think, counts as a driver flaw not a Win 7 flaw (but either way it is broken).

 --John

 pthurrott said:

Joe,

What I said was that I'd heard from two TAP customers that Microsoft planned a UI change, a new UI skin, post-RC. Obviously, we've not seen that and I've not heard anything new one way or the other.

MinWIn has been addressed,and long go: It is part of Windows 7 as Microsoft has already admitted.

The "big surprise" I mentioned earlier was XP Mode. People try to downplay this, but a fully licensed copy of XP that you get for free with Windows 7 is indeed a big deal, as is the compatibility effects of that inclusion.

Any other questions?

Thanks for answering that, I'm honestly very happy with Windows 7,I did watch the Min Win Video on Chanel 9 and thought it was very enlightening.

Though the thought of Microsoft  doing a UI change so late in the game would be risky..but then again Microsoft seems to be in the mindset to surprise its  competitors.

Lindy, XP mode means that a licence for XP is INCLUDED in 7. It was not in Vista, which means that you would have had to have two OS licences for each machine.

Also, the integration between the two was not available.

XP-mode allows apps installed on the VM to appear alongside native win7 apps in the start menu, as if there was no VM there at all.

It's not just for gamers who want to run games from 1998 (although should I point out that I recently played the original Quake 1 + 2 and the original HalfLife under Vista recently whilst reminiscing?) it's for the many people who have perfectly functioning ancilliary hardware, such as printers, scanners or in my sister's case, a computer controlled embroidery machine.

Many of these devices are discontinued, and will never get drivers for vista or 7.

With XP mode, these devices are no longer expensive pieces of junk, they are still usable, and do not have to be replaced.

Honestly, your dissmisive attitude towards people who don;t live in your little world is getting as tiring as the many arguments on this site.

JohnBaxter, a likely better solution that works in most instances is to go to device manager, find your network card properties, go to power management, and check the box that says "Only allow a magic packet to wake the computer"

In Vista this was called "Only allow management stations to wake this machine"

Anyway, if this is UN-checked, then the NIC would wake the machine on any activity, including a router checking it's routing tables etc.

turning this ON means that unless a specific WAKE command is sent (for example, from an XBOX media center extender) the PC will stay asleep until told otherwise.

hope that helps.

"why haven't corporations, with software agreements installed VPC7 with a XP VM in Vista"

Simply because you can't run VPC7 on Vista.  You CAN run Virtual PC 2007 SP1 on Vista though.

"If you are doing things right then that XP VM is just another workstation that needs to be maintained., patching, anti-malware software, management software etc.  Add to that it will eat up at least 512megs of RAM, so now your Vista/7 box needs more resources."

If you've already set up centralized management of PC's, adding an additional simplified environment for legacy apps to the list doesn't take much.  SMB's without large infrastructure investments can take advantage of MED-V.  Large enterprise companies would likely use APP-V instead.  

APP-V is easier to manage because it's centrally deployed, but it requires a larger investment and the initial setup is more complicated.  

MED-V is easier to deploy because it's centrally managed, but it requires a smaller investment and the initial setup is less complicated.

See how that works?

@gorath:

That's very true.  Since USB hardware is supported, you can use it as a support platform for legacy hardware on the new OS.  Not all USB hardware is supported as well as it would be on a native install though, and you would still need those extra resources for running the VM, but it would work as a helper app for your migration path, which is all that XP Mode was designed to be.

XP being included for any company with a MS service agreement means nothing.  For example my company could technically upgrade  XP machines to Vista, or only half or them, or 10% and I am pretty sure our agreement is up in late 2010 so that means to 7 as well.  Free XP would be helpful for small companies wanting to go to 7 but run XP in a VM.

Your point about old hardware is somewhat valid for the rare cases like your sisters with the sewing machine app.  I am willing to bet that some competing vendor makes a product that will do the same thing on Vista.

However they are willing to buy whole new computer with Windows 7 but not a new scanner, or printer?  Both of which are now at least 4 years old, because it wont work with 7, which means it wont work with Vista, which means the scanner/printer was bought at least in 2006 or before.

I can see XP mode for a small company, that bought a new PC because they had to (old one died or it was an impulse buy) and now they want to install something like Quicbooks 2003 because it works fine, and was working great under XP.  Then again the same question comes out, you can buy a new PC buy your not willing to upgrade your 6 year old Quickbooks?

APP-V, MED-V, Citrix, ThinApp, Terminal Server are all reasons NOT to install XP mode.  They remove that "extra workstation" in your environment that you have to  to manage on every 7 box with XP mode.  Exactly my point.

"Then again the same question comes out, you can buy a new PC buy your not willing to upgrade your 6 year old Quickbooks?"

In many cases, upgrading is not as simple as inserting a CD and clicking the mouse 4 or 5 times.

It takes a lot of money to hire consultants, train users, etc.

"Mike, I think the upgrade question was specifically regarding going from a "higher end" version of Vista, to a "lower end" version of 7. for example, from Vista Ultimate, to 7 Home Premium."

That's exactly what I meant.

"Then again the same question comes out, you can buy a new PC buy your not willing to upgrade your 6 year old Quickbooks?"

Yep! PC's are cheap!

"It takes a lot of money to hire consultants, train users, etc."  I totally agree, and that is why I think most corporations will wait until all apps used by a company are 7 compatible before migrating users to 7.  This is probably the biggest reason Vista was not adopted by corporations.

www.amazon.com/.../B001ECGT8A

Quickbooks 2009 is cheaper :)

Actually, Lindy, given the option of using old hardware for free, then yes, I would go down that route, rather than buying new hardware. I don't have your unlimited corporate funds at my disposal.

Another situation that Virtualisation has helped with recently, is in allowing one of our graphic designers to use our prehistoric, but still perfectly functioning CD printer, on a brand new workstation The CD printer is quite an expense to replace.

The worksation was a necessity because of the size of projects these days, but the software accompanying the ancient printer would only just work with windows 2000.

So, cue a virtual machine inside Vista x64, running a copy of win2K for using the printer.

Win 7's integration into the shell would have made using the printer more straightforward.

regardless, we can now continue to use the printer, until it dies of natural causes, which may be quite some time away.

See, this stuff is REALLY useful for some folk.

I'd even go so far as to say it's useful for quite a lot of people.

Don't knock it because YOU don't see any value in it (or because you've got enough disposable income to spend on new peripherals, for that matter).

"Free XP would be helpful for small companies wanting to go to 7 but run XP in a VM."

That's the target audience actually.

"I can see XP mode for a small company, that bought a new PC because they had to (old one died or it was an impulse buy)"

That's the reason why most people buy new computers instead of upgrading.  Buying a new computer is often less expensive in the long run (what with a new warranty and whatnot), over the relative cost of upgrading.

"now they want to install something like Quicbooks 2003 because it works fine, and was working great under XP.  Then again the same question comes out, you can buy a new PC buy your not willing to upgrade your 6 year old Quickbooks?"

I think you already answered that.  They buy a new computer because that's all that's available.  They get the OS that comes with it, and it takes better advantage of the new hardware and offers new features, but LOB applications will often cost a lot, so they only upgrade when support ends.

Many LOB applications cost more than the machines that they run on.

"APP-V, MED-V, Citrix, ThinApp, Terminal Server are all reasons NOT to install XP mode."

Take MED-V off that list.  It turns XP Mode into a centrally-managed setup.  It still uses locally-running VM's on each workstation though.  The other options are centrally-deployed (ie. they run from a remote server and are "pushed" out to workstation by way of a synthetic link to the server).  When you need better performance of applications, and don't have a big-a$$ server to run them on, or massive network bandwidth, but need to run them in a legacy environment, but also need to manage those environments centrally, MED-V is the solution to use.  If you only need an unmanaged solution, Virtual PC/XP Mode is the answer.  If you want total control over images and can afford to run them from a central server location, then a remote solution like what you listed (excluding MED-V) is a better option.  They are different choices for different markets.  MED-V doesn't require any extra purchases beyond your standard AD network setup and SA for your desktops.  All the others require a very large infrastructure investment.

MED-V fits into a niche between an unmanaged local VM setup and a remote VM or presentation virtualization setup.  It also has a price to match - the cost of Software Assurance.

nothing new?

Have you tried FTP from a console in 7100 and higher?

If not, I'd check it out. You'd have something to comment about...

I got Quickbooks Pro 208 on sale for $75 (CDN) last year.  This year I switched to Simply Accounting Pro 2009.  Simply Accounting (since 2008) requires a MySQL server connector instance running either on the local PC, or a server.  I have it running on my SBS server since it takes very little in the way of resources or network bandwidth, and the SBS Backup picks up a copy of it as well.

In Canada, there are few programs available for low-cost accounting.  You basically have the two programs listed above, and that's about it.  Above and beyond those, the price for accounting software skyrockets into the thousands.  I looked at cloud solutions for accounting, but the cheapest option was a customizable ERP solution "designed for businesses from 2 users to 1000 users", and the best price they could offer with the same options (inventory, point-of-sale, etc.) was $99/user....PER MONTH!

I would love if Microsoft would bring Office Small Business Accounting to Canada.  It's currently US/UK only.  I tried it once and found it EXTREMELY easy to use.  The basic version is also free, but Action Pack subscribers get the Pro version too.  It won't work for Canada though, because the taxation rules are completely different from the US, and it's not customizable enough to compensate.

Simply Accounting is ok, but as with most accounting packages, I would bet that they spend all of about 5 minutes on UX design.  It would take Microsoft to show them how to improve it with a Ribbon-based UI to keep it simpler.

@gorath, let me say this XP mode, coming free with specific versions of a 7 is a good thing and I applaud MS for it.

I just dont think it qualifies as a "big announcement".  I think it will be used by 10% of Windows 7 computers, especially since it wont come with the home version.

The "big announcement" I was looking for was something like.....

*June launch as was hinted by Paul

* Free upgrade to Vista users of the consumer type (excluding software insurance/enterprise customers).  This I doubted but thought possibly because of the bad rep of Vista and the very low penetration of Vista.

* One or two versions at the max with just a very small difference, ie can join a domain or not.

XP mode is good, but not huge IMHO.

Thanks, gorath.  I saw the wake only on magic packet option, and would have tried it had I had a need to.  But I didn't feel a need to experiment further, as I presently use nothing which would give that value.

The original setting (which I'll try again in general availability or if Microsoft pushes another driver update to RC) was "Pattern Match & Magic Packet".

Lindy

"the very low penetration of Vista"

Of course you've been around here long enough to know that's a myth and that Vista's adoption rate has been faster than XP's.

Why are you spreading false premises that you know aren't true?

Lindy,

"XP mode is good, but not huge IMHO."

Soooooo, what is your point again? You sure have written a lot trying to convince us that you yourself don't think its a big deal.

Do I sense that you actually feel the opposite? (The answer is yes.)

"Free upgrade to Vista users of the consumer type (excluding software insurance/enterprise customers).  This I doubted but thought possibly because of the bad rep of Vista and the very low penetration of Vista."

Starting in July, royalty OEM's and System Builders will be able to offer coupons for free upgrades ala the Vista Express Upgrade program.  The Windows 7 program will have a slightly different name but the upgrade paths will work in the same way.  AFAIK, only Home Premium, Business, and Ultimate will have free upgrade paths.  Enterprise already has an upgrade path because in order to get Enterprise, you have to get SA, and SA includes upgrade rights already.  Also AFAIK, Vista Home Basic won't have an upgrade path, probably because 7 Home Basic is designed for developing countries, and Starter->Starter won't be available because of the reverse of that.

I would imagine that Microsoft will offer retail buyers some kind of coupon, or else an online upgrade form if they purchase Vista after a certain date as well - possibly the same date as for OEM's/SB's.

"One or two versions at the max with just a very small difference, ie can join a domain or not."

Home Premium and Professional.  That's what most buyers will see.  Pro has domain join.  Home Premium doesn't.  There are other differences as well.  Home users should look for Home Premium.  Small businesses and enthusiasts should buy Professional.  Pro is a total superset of Home Premium with no features missing.  That was all true with XP, so you should be familiar with that concept already.  What you won't find is a specific "Media Center Edition" available preloaded on consumer PC's though, so it's actually a bit simpler that way.

You won't see Home Basic in North America, and Starter will only be on very limited hardware.  Ditto for Ultimate, but "limited" meaning very few systems.  

Enterprise is just "Ultimate for SA customers".  Why they differentiate the name for different purchasing channels is a decision left to marketing.  I don't think calling a retail product "Enterprise" or a business SKU "Ultimate" really fits though, so I guess that's one way to look at it.  They wanted to keep a similar naming scheme to Windows Vista also.

One question that I know people have been asking is whether or not the retail packaging would include both 32-bit and 64-bit discs for all versions (namely Home Premium and Pro).  I would like to see that happen.  You could argue that Vista retail purchasers probably weren't the most savvy users in the first place, so avoiding any potential confusion or 64-bit compatibility issues with older hardware that didn't ship with Vista was probably a good idea for those buyers.  Whatever.  Retail buyers make up such a small percentage of overall buyers that it probably won't matter anyway.

@johnbaxter:

What kind of ethernet controller is it?

Looking at XP Mode, it's going to be easy to manage.  

It's simple to setup, so you don't have to worry about deploying the image which is normally half of the work, and you can lock it down and install applications after deployment with just some GPO's.

"@gorath, let me say this XP mode, coming free with specific versions of a 7 is a good thing and I applaud MS for it.

I just dont think it qualifies as a "big announcement". "

I agree with that. It's good, but not "big".

Mike,

"I'm sure this will get lots of posts (primarily from Microsoft bashers) who will tell you that I uniformly like anything made by Microsoft and hate anything by anyone else. It isn't true but they'll say it anyway.

That said, I've been fairly happy with Windows 7"

And contrary to what many Apple bashers may say, I'm fairly happy with Win7 running under VMWare. At the least, it is MUCH nicer than XP, and there is even some chance that my workplace will allow us to use it.....they wouldn't touch Vista. It will be a big improvement on XP.

Not to re-start the wallpaper thing, but is it really true that you can't have different wallpaper on different monitors? It's certainly not a functional issue; I'm just surprised if that is true...

@johnbaxter

Cheers for the help, I'll give your advice a crack tomorrow to see if that resolves my problem : )

I do think it's the same problem you have because I remember doing a clean install of WIndows 7 and having no problems with sleep/hibernation but after doing a Windows Update, the problem appears.

I'll see how it turns out tomorrow

If XP mode signifies the line in the sand, where extraneous backwards compatability is dropped from future versions of windows, and is instead replaced with virtual machines, then it has the potential to be very big news indeed.

ChuckB, Sadly, no, you can't have different wallpaper on different monitors - at least not directly from windows. Nvidia drivers allow you to choose a different wallpaper image per monitors, and I'm pretty sure ATI does as well - but the functionality is not actualy built into windows itself.

This has been a curious omission from windows since as far back as there's been wallpaper images.

Another curiosity is that you can't make the taskbar span across multiple monitors.

Official word on this (Via the engineering 7 blog) is that it's impossible to know the positional relationship of different monitors.

To that, I call bull****, because the multiple monitor setup window, has had the facility of dragging little screens around to represent your real world layout since at least windows 98 (I never had multiple monitors before 98, so I can't confirm the existence previous to it).

gorath,

"ChuckB, Sadly, no, you can't have different wallpaper on different monitors - at least not directly from windows. Nvidia drivers allow you to choose a different wallpaper image per monitors, and I'm pretty sure ATI does as well - but the functionality is not actualy built into windows itself.

This has been a curious omission from windows since as far back as there's been wallpaper images.

Another curiosity is that you can't make the taskbar span across multiple monitors."

Huh. Macs have done that multiple wallpapers forever and I'm quite surprised at the absence in Windows, especially in Windows 7. As you say, it just isn't that hard to implement.

To my great annoyance, and analogous to the Taskbar issue, you can't replicate or extend the Mac single menu bar across multiple monitors. It's the only reason I know that favors the "menu in a window" approach of Windows, but that cure is (IMHO) worse than the disease. (See Togg on the Fitt's law aspects of menubar positioning.)

I think the "menu bar only on the main monitor" is an example of too much of Apple's sometimes obsessive minimalism. Like the one-button mouse this UI decision made sense once, but doesn't anymore.

It's true about not really being able to have different wallpapers on different monitors.  You have to so some not-so-trivial image editing to accomplish it

Here's an wallpaper I made a few years ago, when I had two monitors at different resolutions, where the left (primary) monitor was somewhat "below" the right monitor.  You have to set the wallpaper to "tiled" so that the right monitor's view "wraps" vertically and re-connects the split image on the right.

i277.photobucket.com/.../OffsetWallpaper.jpg

Not pretty, is it?

...Groan...

For what it's worth, this is the method used by UltraMon and the like, which offer such functionality...they simply automate the process.  My guess is, they'll have their work cut out for them if they want to be able to support 7's Desktop Slideshow functionality.

...and I, too, pine for a native taskbar that has the OPTION of spanning multiple screens, or even better, a taskbar on each screen.

"Huh. Macs have done that multiple wallpapers forever and I'm quite surprised at the absence in Windows..."

Ooooh, condescending. Reminds me of the Mac guy in the Mac ads.

"Of course you've been around here long enough to know that's a myth and that Vista's adoption rate has been faster than XP's.

Why are you spreading false premises that you know aren't true?"

Get us some hard numbers Mike.  I am talking corporate adoption where they have a choice (for now).  The corporate world can choose XP (their own build) on new PC's today 6/4/2009 .  My company has over 200k XP clients.  We own right to Vista.  If the hard drive died in my work provided Windows computer it would be replaced with a new HD containing XP.

Come on Mike give us some numbers, walk down the hallway at MS and get that info.  Last I read, in say December, was that Vista was at 4% in the fortune 500.

I would never compare XP numbers to Vista numbers in terms of looking at each of them after X amount of time.  XP had users coming from Win9x (98 SE and ME because ME was a failure) and 2000.  2000 was not very old When XP hit.  The transition from XP to Vista could not be more clear if you are sticking with Windows.  Leave XP in its 6-7th year of life and go to Vista.

Give us some real numbers on say fortune 1000 as of right now.

@hamilton I disagree with Paul's statement.

"The "big surprise" I mentioned earlier was XP Mode. People try to downplay this, but a fully licensed copy of XP that you get for free with Windows 7 is indeed a big deal, as is the compatibility effects of that inclusion."

I also think that less than 10% of 7 users will ever use XP mode.  Could I be wrong sure.  However even Paul has said this it targeted towards business owners that have business apps that wont run on 7.  I agree with that statement, and would take it even further.  It will be used by smaller business owners that dont have the resources to replace a app they use at work.  Larger corporations will probably throw their resources into either updating apps (home grown) or replacing apps (shrink wrap) with versions that will work with 7 rather than use XP mode.

So I think XP mode while good DOES NOT = big surprise.

Lindy,

"Sorry its not a big deal."

"If this is such a "big deal", why haven't corporations, with software agreements installed VPC7 with a XP VM in Vista, so they could move to Vista?  Its essentially the same thing."

"XP being included for any company with a MS service agreement means nothing."

"I just dont think it qualifies as a "big announcement"."

"So I think XP mode while good DOES NOT = big surprise."

Sooo, you DO or DON'T think XP mode is a big deal? I'm still confused.

shark,

""Huh. Macs have done that multiple wallpapers forever and I'm quite surprised at the absence in Windows..."

Ooooh, condescending. Reminds me of the Mac guy in the Mac ads."

Actually, not. If you want to see condescending, go check some of the other threads. That was genuine. Windows does surprise me sometimes, there are things I take for granted that are absent, and I'm sure you feel the same about Macs.

It isn't a big deal, and with all the other cosmetic stuff/eye candy in Win 7, I'm surprised they didn't implement this. Not flaming, not condescending, not saying it's a big deal, just surprised.

@shark47: "Just curious, what do you think is the worst company in America today, robertsjoe?"

Can I nominate the US Government as being the worst?

@miguelgalos@ "Why are you spreading false premises that you know aren't true?"

This has to be the funniest line of the week. This from the Borg-fanboi himself, it's quite amusing. You're a legend for spreading false premises and outright lies.

Here wego again...feuds.

@hamilton the only big deal is your reading comprehension.  I have stayed on message.  I am still waiting for a "Big Announcement" from Paul about Windows 7.

Perhaps I could suggest www.rif.org  It will help you down the road.

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Wow, Bobbyjo is a Limbaugh/Cheney faction Republican. Not exactly a surprise there.

Lindy

So, in other words you know the adoption rate of Vista is better than the adoption rate of XP. (Otherwise why would you ask for numbers and then explain why you wouldn't accept even the specific numbers you ask for.

It's pretty silly to say the equivalent of "I was right about the adoption rate and you're wrong about the adoption rate and I wasn't lying and besides, adoption rate doesn't matter so even if you can prove it, it's not true." Kind of like you didn't expect anyone to call you on it.

Sad.

Lindy,

Hint: I was being sarcastic.

Lindy,

A June launch for Windows 7 is absolutely impractical for a number of reasons. You being in the IT business should understand especially considering how shaky Windows Vista development was, that it is essential to Microsoft's business that  Windows 7 has to be one of its highest quality OSes. It is impractical because as Paul and other places have noted, there are still builds and fine tuning of the OS code is still taking place. Also, almost 99 percent of folks are going to want a physical DVD. Once the RTM is mastered, it is going to take months of burning those DVD's, packaging, server setups for Windows Genuine Advantage, and of course shipping the product.

However, I also suspect that Microsoft is working right now on the marketing. "Wow is now" was a complete and total bust. So, they need a proper marketing strategy not only to sell to the XP stallwarts, but I suspect that Microsoft is probably working to get Mac users to buy Windows 7. Since you guys can use bootcamp to run Windows 7, its an easy sell if it works with Mac's existing hardware. I'm sure a lot of Mac users would like to play the latest PC games or take advantage of Windows specific software. So if I'm Microsoft execs, I'd really want to analyse both the ineffective and effective advertising. Also, I consider hiring a new advertising company just for Windows 7.

Also we have a predictable pattern of launches of Windows in a large scale. Launches tend to happen in a pattern that's been fairly consistent. So I wasn't expecting anything like that.

However, as impractical of a "free Windows 7" for Vista users, I'd really like them to give a discount for Windows Vista Ultimate users. Microsoft really shafted those users with the very lame ultimate extras. There was so much that could have been done, but ultimately was never done. If anything, those are the guys who really need to be compensated. I'm just hoping for some sort of 2 pack licensing deal to make it easy for folks. Similar to the Microsoft Office Home and Student Edition two licensing deal. Also, I hope Microsoft will step away from the $399 and $299 price points. Those are just really high especially in this economy. It would be in their best interest to have a special launch price to get everyone onboard.

Yep, a multi-machine licence like office 2007 home and student would be great for 7 - especially considering that some of it's networking features work best when used with other win7 machines, like homegroup.

Microsoft has already realised that many homes have more than 1 PC, which is apparently why homegroup came about, but it would be really neat if their pricing and licensing reflected it too.

What? You don't have multi-machine licenses with Windows? Macs have had it forever.

subzero,

On marketing Win7, "I'm sure a lot of Mac users would like to play the latest PC games or take advantage of Windows specific software."

Yep. I run XP under VMWare for Dragon Naturally Speaking (now supplanted with Macspeech Dictate, which uses the same voice recognition) and for the Polar Precision Fitness software. Not interested in games, but their are still a few specialized vertical market categories where a PC, real or virtual, is useful.

However, as a marketing strategy, going for Mac switchers is silly; there aren't enough of them. And, no offense, but I think there are very few Mac users who are going to switch to Windows for any reason.

The thing that would just redefine the perception of Microsoft in the eyes of many would be a free, or very cheap deal, to upgrade Vista to Win7. VERY cheap if not free. Suddenly the greedy rapacious corporation would have much friendlier face.

The game here is not converting Mac users....that won't happen. The game is new purchases/upgraded hardware. Mac or Windows?

Despite all the flaws, Microsoft at least has an argument with the price issue. If they position WIn7 (at least implicitly) as a cheap fix for those who purchased Vista, it puts a lot of heat on Apple with the upcoming Snow Leopard. Microsoft could draw a legitimate distinction there and put Apple in an awkward spot.

However, I think this is all fantasy. Microsoft won't do it, anymore than they can get that the plethora of Win7 versions looks like a strategy of forced upgrades. Paul's own words, "Windows 7 Starter? That's How They Get You." And,  the plan to force purchases with the entirely concocted phrase, "low cost small notebook PC'.

www.digitimes.com/.../a20090602PD221.html

Same old, same old. They're going for profit optimization via a contrived version system (Zune points, anyone?) and they're missing a golden opportunity to look like the good guys and make Apple look like the uncaring corporation.

It will probably just be a missed opportunity.

"Can I nominate the US Government as being the worst?"

Yes, yes you can.  I feel dirty for agreeing with rj...  Let me take a shower and rinse off the grime.

Of course, it isn't much different than any of the other governments around the world.  Slow, bloated, costs too much, and boring.

"The thing that would just redefine the perception of Microsoft in the eyes of many would be a free, or very cheap deal, to upgrade Vista to Win7. VERY cheap if not free. "

That might have worked if there hadn't been two service packs to improve Vista compatibility and performance. The service packs were free, by the way.

It also gives the impression that Win 7 is nothing but a fix for Vista, which it isn't.

" Microsoft won't do it, anymore than they can get that the plethora of Win7 versions looks like a strategy of forced upgrades."

They aren't forcing anyone to upgrade. Windows Starter can't even be installed on hardware that supports the other versions, so there's no point upgrading those PCs. Most people will get Windows 7 Home Premium and will not upgrade to Professional or Ultimate.

Wow...I haven't missed anything here by being gone yesterday...same old trolls on both sides of the knuckleheaded "OS War" spewing thier sycophantic drivel in order to impress Balmer and Jobs...the only thing is that they are sitting back laughing at all of you....just like I am!

--tayme

"Can I nominate the US Government as being the worst?"

It's funny that even the worst US Government is orders of magnitude better than the best Governments in many countries. Of course, the US is responsible for bringing some of these Governments into power.

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tayme,

Comparing and contrasting two operating systems that can technically run on the same platform and trying to determine which one is the best suited for your needs isn't "sycophantic drivel." It what we technology enthusiast do. Its fair and right to have a healthy discussion of Windows 7 vs OS-X "SnowLeopard." I think its kind of sad and disappointing that you've allowed the genuine trolls to effect you in such a way that any Windows vs OS-X discussion is rendered as pointless.

There are very obvious and technical merits to such a debate. From games, information, system performance, security, and many areas, this is an important debate for consumers and enthusiasts to make. Did I make fun of Apple in any of my commentary? No. I'm equally as harsh on Microsoft as I am to Apple. To compare, contrast, and analyse Windows 7 and OS-X "SnowLeopard", since we're about to have two brand new versions of this operating system makes logical and complete sense.

I would recommend that you think clearly about your statements and not dismiss healthy discourse and debate. None of us who are true technology enthusiasts, are going to shy away from these arguments. What would be helpful from you, is going after the extremists and the trolls on this forum. But to carte blanche dismiss any and all debate, isn't a very smart or intelligent addition to the discussion. IMO.

@sub - I agree with you...it is good to discuss the technical merits of various OSes. But I don't consider statements like the following "healthy discourse and debate". You decide who are the trolls in your mind. To me they are the ones that automatically dismiss the notion that there are no merits for on OS or the other...or for that matter, one company or the other. They tend to hijack nearly every thread on Paul's blog because they are either afraid to start their own blog or they have and it has failed. No names mentioned.

"Wow, Bobbyjo is a Limbaugh/Cheney faction Republican. Not exactly a surprise there."

"And a free pony for people named Lindy."

"Or a case of greshen formula and six pack of slim fast if your name is Galos?"

"You're a legend for spreading false premises and outright lies."

I'll admit that I have fallen into the arguments several times...but as you'll notice, I no longer favor Windows over OS X in every case like I did back in the Bonch days. Why - because I have tried OS X and see a great value in it for the basic home user that wants to read email, listen to and edit music, play and edit video, safely surf the web(as long as they aren't idiots), and not have to call me for support on a weekly basi9s because either they messed something up or thier PC just crashed, or it is slow, or whatever. In the Enterprise, Windows is great for a lot of things, so is Unix(Solaris, HPUX, AIX, etc) and some Linux distros. zOS or OS/390 also continues to run many large companies OLTP systems. I support all of those and more on a daily basis, so I think that I know a bit about their strengths and weaknesses in real world production.

--tayme

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"It's funny that even the worst US Government is orders of magnitude better than the best Governments in many countries. Of course, the US is responsible for bringing some of these Governments into power."

Does the devil do his own dirty work, or does he get his evil minions to do it for him?

@tayme:

I disagree. I think Windows there are a lot of scenarios where Windows is useful outside the enterprise:

Most people I have helped out don't seem to have too many problems with Windows becoming slow, or PCs crashing, or viruses.

@shark - Of course there are many great scenarios for Windows outside the enterprise. I am just saying that its true advantage over OS X is in the enterprise. Other than the price of a Mac and the amount of malware targeting Windows because of its dominance, both are fairly equal for the basic home user. On the other hand, Unix, Linux, and zOS have major advantages in many areas in the enterprise. Not everything is as black and white as some like to make it out to be. Companies and consumers alike need to look at the cost/value of a system for their needs and wants. not every person or company will arrive at the same answer every time...and that is great. Some people here cannot accept that.

--tayme

@Sub "A June launch for Windows 7 is absolutely impractical for a number of reasons."

I agree.  However it was Paul site where I first read of a possible June launch.  Hence that is why I thought the "Big Announcement" was possibly the launch.

I have not been involved with Windows 7 enough to judge whether its close enough to launch yet.

Mike G, as you normally do, you cant answer my question.  Thanks for being predictable.

Shark,

I'm really talking about perceptions. Microsoft could do something bold and it would put Apple on the defensive, something I think most here would like. Oddly, I'd like it to, because a robust competition would be a good thing.

subzero,

Yah, I think this discussion has been substantive and civil, certainly compared to the usual devolution that takes place. You've been reasonable and I said something about Apple's "obsessive minimalism", which is their corporate DNA issue, just as excessive featurism seems embedded in Microsoft. Among other things, some tension between those views is inevitable and could lead to improvements in both product lines.

"excessive featurism seems embedded in Microsoft"

There are many examples where minimalism through integration is one of Microsoft's strong points though.