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Wow. That seems unnecessarily harsh, even for Paul. Someone must have peed in his Toasty-O's this morning.

MS seems quite enamored with the technology, though. I love the quote, "Science fiction writers, filmmakers...they haven't been able to imagine what we're doing today". Apparently these folks don't get to too many films or read much science fiction. This thing doesn't even come close to the level of what was imagined in the 20-year-old TNG Holodeck.

xbox360.ign.com/.../lionhead_natalproject_e3.html

Then again, based on that demo, Microsoft seems to think that it's more compelling to play with fake people than, you know, real ones. It's interesting stuff to be sure, but I don't see the larger value here. Maybe I'm missing something.

Comment(s) from you know who to commence about how Ultimates was indeed the Ultimate, or barring that its was Apple's fault or UNIX or both.

3,2,1....

You can say pretty much the same about Molyneux (he is big on inflating stuff to be bigger then it is). And we don't have a release date. Why did Microsoft even announce this project (does it even have a final name, or are they going to call it Natal)?

There must be some leaks of this thing or the possibility of leaks before next year's E3, because Microsoft should know better then to announce this early (that is more Sony's style)!

Natal is great in concept, but I still have so many red flags at this point. I'll believe it when I see it.

"Maybe I'm missing something."

I think it's the apple that you're missing.

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Dude

First off, feel free to add some actual content.

Second, use a less confusing term. There's no such thing as "Ultimates".

There was Windows Vista Ultimate which had LOTS of features delivered right out (Like MUI and all the features of all the other versions)

There was Ultimate Extras which was a program to deliver some add-ons. While it DID deliver the key things it promised (like the animated background engine and three separate packs of animated backgrounds to run on it) on the whole it was badly done and hurt the brand.

So we've got an opinion of  "It doesn't work because somebody from the Ultimate Extras team is on the Project Natal team" from Paul who saw (as far as I know) has only seen the webcast demo.

versus

Two opinions that boil down to "It worked better than we'd have imagined possible, we haven't been quite this blown away by a tech demo in a long time and we want it now" fron two editors at the usually Microsoft-hostile Gizmodo who actually spent time playing multiple games on the prototype Project Natal system.

Gizmodo hands on testing article at i.gizmodo.com/.../testing-project-natal-we-touched-the-intangible

Jeez,  Paul, you playa hate much?

Nope, me and Tayme will be kicking back watching this one unfold.

@ mikegalos@msn

Thanks for the Gizmodo link. Not exactly sure whats up with Paul and Natal. I've read multiple hands on previews from other sites as well and even if Microsoft only pull off 60% of Natals potential at its launch, it will still be fan-bloody-tastic. As develops get more familiar with it, the applications available for it will only get more inventive and powerful. The Demo video that was shown wasnt saying this is is what it does, it was an indication of what is possible with the technology. Theres a disclaimer on the bottom left of the video for crying out loud. But MS alrady proved the driving sim was no pie in the sky with the hands on at e3, same with the block hitting game which was available to play behind closed doors. Other things in the video demo like virtual warddrobes are probably a few years off, but its only software. Natal provides the platform to realize these ambitions and thats the main point isnt it? and Project Milo is Peter Molyneus next game, thats FACT.

anyone who discounts the real potential inherent to Project Natal is a fool and dangerously narrow in their thinking.

Natal based technologies will change everything about how we interact with computers of every type. Touch and surface technologies are about not having to touch the screen at all - no matter how big, or small and married to zero-training speech, for context based actions - like play, stop, back, etc... they’ll set the standard for how we interact with all the devices we know.

While games and entertainment will change, certainly, what I find most exciting is how Natal interfaces will change computing in general.

By design, humans have stereo-optic binocular vision and all of our lives we have been "pointing" with our fingers to objects others can instantly distinguish. Heat sensors in an array - a compound array making up a field of imagery, can do in non-visible light exactly what our own eyes do routinely with visible light. We triangulate nearly instantly and can deduce what another is pointing at. Range and depth of field being used to help us understand our world in three dimensions. Time, speed and distance, are others, which is why we can catch balls in flight.

So picture an array of heat sensors interpreting a field and as you, your hands, fingers, toes, arms and legs move within it, make up differences in that field. It is not hard to process these differences and unlike very long wave lengths that are relatively slow, or others which are too reflective and subject to excessive bloom (as it is called) Natal can very precisely track differences in the established field and register them as valid. Specific differences are registered as commands which are recognized by a game’s or app’s API.

At very few times in life are a people able to witness such a significant change - enjoy this one for what it is; you'll remember it, without question. Phones one need not touch. Displays one need not dot with finger prints and tablets and pads that are as natural to use as the fingers with which we point.

Dude

And I'll be spending the day watching the Apple fans rewrite history so that whatever they're told this morning will have always been "what they've always wanted; brilliant, beautiful and the pinnacle of taste" while yesterday they were equally certain that the  identical feature was "something nobody would want; stupid, ugly and the epitome of bad taste".

See "color on a Macintosh" or "Macintosh with slots" or "video on an iPod" or "a phone that has a music player" or "native programs on iPhone" for a few of the more blatant examples.

WWDC Keynote day is always one of the most amusing days of the year.

Until we actually see an actual product here with a product name, delivery date, and games that can take advantage of "Project Natal", then I will be somewhat skeptical of this 3D controller system. However, considering what Sony did with the "EyeToy" video camera system, I don't think "Project Natal" is so far fetched from reality. Video games have been using motion capture technology for quite sometime, so bring that to the end user is the next logical step.

I'm going to reserve judgement. However, a coworker of mine feels that Project Natal is really for the next Xbox more so than the 360. Perhaps this will be like a public beta for the next Xbox. As scarry as that sounds, the first Xbox was the first video game console to successfully integrate a hard drive, is now becoming standard on consoles. The Xbox was also the first console to utilize Dolby Interactive Content-Encoding Technology in all aspects of the game and not just cut scenes. I also have to admit, riping your cd's to make custom intros and soundtracks was pretty innovative.

So, I'm going to not totall blast this thing unless its clear its vaporware or doesn't work as advertised. However, I'm not going to damn it completely yet. I'm willing to give Microsoft some time to make this happen.

Paul, normally I really do like your commentary. Howerver, I think you've prematurely jumped the shark here. Maybe in time your criticism will be justified, I just think its way too early. Now if by 2011 we don't have a ship date for Natall, its open season for you to rip these guys for it. Seriously though, it was just announced. Products do need time to be made.

Sharky, I expected "mikegalos" to bring up Apple first. Are you gunning for Head WinJihadist now?

Free Natal add-on for all Vista Ultimate Customers.... fools or what ever like me.!!!!!

No more amusing then everyday here that's for sure.

Paul - Since you didn't use the Humor tag, we have to assume that you were serious. That's an interesting assumption that you are making. As seen in mikegalos' link, tou may be the the only person that is thinking this right now.

--tayme

"Sharky, I expected "mikegalos" to bring up Apple first. Are you gunning for Head WinJihadist now?"

Actually, dude had already brought it up by the time I commented. He was being passive-aggressive about it, but that's really no excuse, is it?

Poor Mike. Taking a thread that has nothing to do with Apple and converting it into a "Macs suck" and "Mac users are idiots" flame, based on his fantasy of what  today's event might look like.

You have my sympathy, man.

I'm interested to see how this technology pans out in the future. I hope Alex Kipman does a good job.

Whether you're excited about it or just think it's a fad, Microsoft sure did steal the show at E3.

On a side note - Halo OTSD, to me seems like Halo 2.5 (what Halo 2 should have been. I didn't enjoy the game very much. Others most likely will disagree : )   )

"Thanks for the Gizmodo link. Not exactly sure whats up with Paul and Natal."

Listen to the last TWIT episode to hear Paul's comments. I think he makes valid points. At this point, in spite of a working demo, Natal is still vaporware.

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smoothebond

Another important thing about Natal was the notice during the keynote that the developer's kits were shipped to partners that morning. It may not be ready to ship but it's clearly not vapor when Microsoft is letting the press play with it and partners start developing for it.

That's so cute. Getting defensive already and the WWDC keynote's still 90 minutes away.

My thoughts on Natal.....

It will ship, but it will be a low adoption.

In my experience with consoles that unless the accessory ships with the console at launch and you can prove everyone has one to a developer little or any truly good software will be there for it.

even if they do start to pack it in the box, millions of people at this point won't have one and many won't go buy one.

Today will be interesting...the extremists on both sides will be spewing more than their normal unfounded vitriol...and its already begun. Nice...I'll stay out of the way and let you all go at it.

--tayme

@mikegalos

PREACH IT MIKE!

"And I'll be spending the day watching the Apple fans rewrite history"

Isn't this the company that you and Microsoft hardly ever think about, Mikey? Why would you spend the day giving them anything other than mere moments of your time?

Oh, that's right. You lost your job at Microsoft. You have nothing better to do.

"Actually, dude had already brought it up by the time I commented. He was being passive-aggressive about it, but that's really no excuse, is it?"

You're right, Sharky. You have my apologies. I also didn't expect Mikey to jump in so quickly and with such vigor, but I underestimated him.

Interesting crusade, Paul.  Perhaps you ought to point it elsewhere, though.... like at Apple, where it belongs! :)

Seriously, who among that Apple faithful wants to go on the record with things like:

Glossy black polycarbonate phones are the ultimate in taste surpassed only by glossy white polycarbonate phones or

Apple won't make Snow Leopard Intel-only. They'll support their PowerPC users for year to come. or

Any other statements of "goodfact" that you're sure aren't going to suddenly become "doubleplus ungood" in the annual "120 minutes hate" starting in an hour.

losta

"Isn't this the company that you and Microsoft hardly ever think about, Mikey?"

Well, aside from the Zune team that's true for Microsoft. As for me, I find the Orwellian Outer Party Member Apple fans who post here a source of unending amusement.

Paul is just pissed that he was out of the loop. Every outside source who has actually tried the thing loved it including the crews not particularly pre-disposed to buy *anything* MS is selling. They seem more excited by the experience than  anything else out there at the moment. He didn't get to try it, isn't speaking from any experience of the thing whatsoever and is just tossing tomatoes from outside the in crowd. Also, the fact that dev kits actually went out makes calling it vaporware embarrassing - you don't understand the term. Clearly something real exists.

If nothing else it is more ambitious than anything else MS is doing and personally I am happy to seem them swinging for the fences for once.

MikeGalos,

"Well, aside from the Zune team that's true for Microsoft."

Care to explain the "I'm a PC" ads, which clearly are referring to the "Im a Mac" ads that Apple produces...since, based on what you just said, other than the Zune team, Microsoft hardly ever thinks about Apple.

If MS hardly ever thinks about Apple, it's pretty weird they come up with a bunch of ads obviously designed to battle Apple, isn't it?

Can't wait to hear your response to this one.

"And I'll be spending the day watching the Apple fans rewrite history so that whatever they're told this morning will have always been "what they've always wanted; brilliant, beautiful and the pinnacle of taste" while yesterday they were equally certain that the  identical feature was "something nobody would want; stupid, ugly and the epitome of bad taste"."

Funny that you, of all people, should bring up the fact that Apple is one of the most successful companies in the history in turning technology that has previously been unusable, or at the very least badly marketed, into hit products with cult-like following.

It's true. And you're right. Asking consumers is the most useless thing you can do to aid your product development. Apple's customers are no different in this regard. Consumers won't know they want something until they see it, and see it done well, preferably. And that's extremely hard to do. Innovations are just as hard to come by as inventions.

And please don't try to say that iPhone, for instance, wasn't something new. Yes, it had very few features that weren't seen before. But if you know anything about product design, you know that features have little to do with how valuable a product is. And you'd be rewriting history more than anybody if you claimed iPhone wasn't something that had never been seen before when it came out.

Design. It's not what the product looks like, although what the product looks like is far from meaningless in evaluating its value to the user. In fact, research shows that out of two ATM machines that are similar in function, the one that has more eye candy and a more appealing design seems to be easier to use for people.

Although I hate the term eye candy. To me it means something that's distracting to the user. Visual design is about communication, leading the viewers eye where you want and getting a specific message through. Neglecting this is a message as well, but probably not one you want to send to your customers.

"Seriously, who among that Apple faithful wants to go on the record with things like:"

Heh, I repeat what I just wrote: even hc Apple fans have a hard time imagining Apple could actually come up with something new in all these areas (phones, mp3 players etc) they have in the past.

Off topic*, Project Natal, if it does see the light of the day, seems to be great for some scenarios like tennis, golf, boxing, fitness, etc. In fact, Its success depends on how Microsoft markets it.

*The topic of discussion seems to have changed.

panache

Care to explain how Microsoft putting out ads for a Microsoft product explaing why that Microsoft product offers a vast variety of product choices to fit any customer's needs is about Apple?

Just because Apple can't talk about Macintosh except by talking about Windows doesn't mean anybody talking about Windows is secretly talking in mysterious code about Apple.

I know it's confusing to you but sometimes an ad about Windows is just an ad about Windows.

Sharky- Passive aggressive? More like predicting the predictable.

MikeGalos,

Sometimes an ad about Windows is just an ad about Windows and not about Apple...except when that ad about Windows shows a girl walking out of the Apple store because she's not "cool enough" to own an Apple.

Or because a guy thinks that the "Apple is only about aesthetics"

Or because MS is taking the catchphrase of Apple's commercials and using it to fit their needs...remember the Mac commercials start with, "I'm a Mac, and I'm a PC"...and then MS's ads end with, "I'm a PC and ... " whatever that particular person uses to explain why they went with a PC in that commercial.  I wonder where they got that from?

What's funny is I don't remember any ads for Windows XP, or any Windows commercials at all until the "Im a Mac, Im a PC" commercials...I mean, "where do you want to go today?" were MS ads, but certainly didn't focus on Windows.

I know it's confusing to you, but it's clear to anyone with eyes and an open mind (which you don't have when it comes to MS or Apple) that the "I'm a PC" commercials directly have to do with Apple.

Which, is kind of funny that MS would come out with a whole line of commercials targeting a company that you just claimed they hardly ever think about.

I knew I would like your response.

MikeGalos,

What's funny is that in most of the "Im a mac, Im a PC" commercials, Windows isn't mentioned.  Some of them sure, Vista is mentioned...but in a bunch of them, only the guy playing PC is mentioned.

But how quickly you forget the showing of the Apple store, or a guy actually holding and touching a Mac in the "Im a PC" commercials.

I mean, just because MS uses Apple's catch phrase, or actually shows the Mac in their commercials is not some mysterious code that those commercials are trying to go head to head with Apple's commercials....I know *THAT* is confusing to you.

What if you play these games naked? Would my third leg effect the gameplay? Did they code that in there? I don't want a virtual player to be telling me to put some clothes on.

And with less than 10 minutes to go...

Glossy polycarbonate phones are cool. Glossy polycarbonate phones have always been cool.

Supporting multiple processor families in one image is cool. Supporting multiple processor families in one image has always been cool.

Of course, in two hours or so it'll be:

Matte polycarbonate phones are cool. Matte polycarbonate phones have always been cool.

Supporting only one processor family in one image is cool. Supporting only one processor family in one image has always been cool.

Doubleplus good that! (And don't tell anyone but I hear the chocko ration's been increased!)

And now you know why 2009 will be like Nineteen Eighty Four.

Enjoy the show...

panache

"I don't remember any ads for Windows XP"

Which just means the ads weren't memorable to your target demographic.  Windows XP had multiple large ad campaigns. And, despite you not remembering them, they must have worked since despite a slow migration (FYI: slower than Vista's) Windows XP did seem to do OK in the market.

MikeGalos,

Playing your classic games....

Even though by your picture you are a terribly ugly person, your personality makes you SO DAMN CUTE AND LOVABLE!

Enjoy the WWDC and your subsequent self-inflicted heart-attack.

Dude, that was a self fulfilling prophecy.  You baited him on, and he responded.  True, he probably would have brought it up anyway, but we all know what buttons we need to press in order to get a maelstrom of comments here.  Might as well just admit it and let it happen like it was bound to happen.

While Paul is assuming a lot, it certainly doesn't give me great confidence to know that guy in charge of Ultimate is in charge here.  Theoretical things that might happen is his specialty apparently.

Mike, we've been listening to your and Paul's endless blabbering about how Vista wasn't a catastrophically bad product launch, but quite the opposite, and then how Windows 7 fixes that all.

Please read my posts. You're just purposefully making yourself sound stupid as usual. You can afford to do it as most people can see that you're maybe not, it's just a strange thing to do.

"Which just means the ads weren't memorable to your target demographic."

Funny, I thought they were bad advertising. Got to stop using them as examples of such when lecturing.

I do remember some windows XP ads, but I remember loads of windows 95 ads.

Windows 95 hardly needed advertising (although there were an abundant amount). A drooling tech press did most of the legwork for them. The hype surrounding W95 all but assured its success. Mikey and the gang forget how the tech press used to fall prostrate at the feet of Microsoft while declaring Apple "beleaguered" and dying. The worm has turned, and Mikey's left like a spurned lover at the altar, wondering how much he can hock the wedding band for.

Sony had a ship date for their new controller, or at least I think they did.  Natel is like surface...great stuff but when can we get it?

Dont hate the player, hate the game:)

If I am reading this right, Mike brought Apple into this discussion and in a very negative way.  I could be wrong, to lazy to read through it all.

I just want to make sure everyone knows this.  Funny how the other day Mike was telling his new fan how he is a single minded anti-Apple hack.

Drugs Mike, lots of them, will get you over your obsession with Apple.

Wow...mikegalos has slipped into complete troll form today...he has been close before, but today takes him the final few steps...

--tayme

Sine Mike broke the Apple conversaion already....

What MS should do with 7 for Vista users.  I would say this is a "Big Announcement" you see Paul:)

10:47 am Family Pack available for $49. Will be released in September. A near-final developer preview available today.

10:46 am Snow Leopard will be available for all Intel Macs -- past and present. How should it be priced? Leopard was $129 and they want all Leopard users to upgrade to Snow Leopard. Snow Leopard will be $29 for those users.

Um, Lindy, Surface is available today, but it is not catered towards the consumer or even IT market.  And Lindy, aren't you being just as much of a troll as Mike today?  BTW, while I typically hate defending Mike, he didn't mention Apple until HIS third post in this thread, and Dude egged him on.

@Dip,

Lindy is just using mike as an excuse to post such messages.

"Glossy polycarbonate phones are cool. Glossy polycarbonate phones have always been cool."

Until they replace them with unibody aluminum phones....

@Dipsh I dont care how many posts it took, why do it at all?

Even if it works I have to wonder "what's fun about that" I like something in my hand preferable something with a trigger so I can kill things with it. Isn't that the point of video games?

Another bit of Microsoft vapourware. Like the dumb big ass coffee table that was announced early. Took years to appear. And then was just as big and dumb, and didn't work, as first thought.

"Even if it works I have to wonder "what's fun about that" I like something in my hand preferable something with a trigger so I can kill things with it. Isn't that the point of video games?"

i.gizmodo.com/.../project-natal-won-e3-and-maybe-the-motion-control-wars

Like Gizmodo said, this doesn't mean you can't use a controller. It's up to

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