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"SD Cards across the lineup" is ridiculous for a pro line. Most high-end digital cameras (you know, the ones the pros use) utilize CF cards, not SD. With the plethora of card formats available, standardizing on ONE out of the dozen or so that are out there is just ridiculous (especially when you can buy a multicard reader for, what, around 20 bucks? Come on...). At least FireWire is in there, as God intended.

Correction: SD SLOTS, not SD cards.

Paul, I gotta compliment your style and informative 'no nonsense' posts. Although I use Windows most of the time because of work, I still mostly use my Mac at home.  But I would rather get my Apple info at your site, rather than sifting through the rose colored view that other sites can give. Also, I come hear to learn more about Windows. I just wanted to applaud you...and you made me chuckle too!

Thanks,

Doc

That's funny. "Reality Check" used to be Paul's moniker when he trolled the Macworld message boards way back when, acting as the precursor to "robertsjoe" on this board. Ah, those were the days.

"Hypocrisy around Vista/7 and Leopard/Snow Leopard. "

I like the way you put it. It won't go down well with the guys at Engadget, though:

www.engadget.com/.../apple-digs-into-microsoft-at-wwdc

lotsa, the world has more or less standardized on SD.  Take a look at the high end Canon's, and they nearly all run SD, and a diminishing amount use CF.  Heck, even Sony is getting the "picture" and moving to SD.  The dozen or so formats really are whittled down to three, with SD in the lead, and CF and Sony withering away.

And how many non-professionals use the MacBook Pro?  I'd guess a lot.  Long overdue feature.

Pingback from  Twitted by dovella

Yep. Too many application mentions. Who cares.

They keep mentioning features for the iphone that won't be available for at&t. Does this mean it will come to a new carrier?

"a diminishing amount use CF"

Point taken. Still think it's a mistake, but whatever. Odd to find us on opposite sides as usual, eh? At least the price drops were welcome (and overdue).

"Apple needs to tone down the boring stuff. Look guys, here's another iPhone app."

Oh, the horror! Focusing on developers and applications at...A DEVELOPER'S CONFERENCE! What were they THINKING?

I wonder if the voice control responds to "Hurry the $%^& up and SYNC, already!!

Why does Apple feel the need to keep jabbing AT&T. Apple wasn't forced into this contract. They made their bed, now lie in it and quit whining.

Oh yeah, where is that tablet? And where is that update to Apple TV that does both more than just view stolen and overpriced downloads, and allows me to record TV that I've already paid for? Microsoft is about a decade ahead of them on video.

"A DEVELOPER'S CONFERENCE! What were they THINKING?"

Lol. Because clearly only developers are paying attention to this...

Taking Jobs out on a date tonight?

To call iPhone OS 3.0 a minor upgrade is false.  It's quite a big major upgrade.  Tons of news features added.

Honestly though this WWDC was a dissapointment.  I kinda expected jobs to make a quick appearance even to say Hello at the end.

OK so if Leopard was so perfect why fix it. I can still point out many problems some that are BIG with leopard. I hope that they did fix them with snow and snow should be free.

The new prices for the iPhone 3G is nice the iPhone3GS is also nice, but AT&T WTF I think that is the only reason why the other half of the country don't have one. I don't know how much ATT is giving apple to stay with them but is it worth it. Becasue of this they are making it easier for other developers to catchup

Voice dialling in iPhone.... LOL!!!!! that's at least a 10 year old function!

Just stopping by to see of the sun still rises and sets. Yep. No change. At least we've got some strangely personal name calling in there, just in case there was a single person not sure of the bias.  Splendid work, Paul.  You never disappoint in your disappointment with all things Apple.

"Hypocrisy around Vista/7 and Leopard/Snow Leopard. "

100% Microsoft sucks for doing exactly what apple pats itself on the back for doing

"Developers Conference"

It's it just me? or would you expect some news on oh say development technologies, frameworks, dev tools, etc..... at one of these.... not consumer product announcements.......

looks like apple fails at understanding a Dev conference vs a Consumer Conference.....  I guess all windows uses should tune into TechEd and such next year

note, at least form the feeds I was watching mention of the Pre at all.....

Paul's pat argument these days is that apple's new stuff is "minor".  It's a subjective claim he can whip out selectively (apply to Apple, don't apply to MS).

I don't see how iPhone os 3 is minor though, mainly because of all the new APIs.  These things will show up in the apps, expanding their power greatly.  Everyone agrees the app store is the biggest part of the iPhone's success, and the new APIs take this to another level.

cesjr

Agreed but right now Microsoft also has an app store and their APIs are more mature than the iPhones. Palm is also making one as well as RIM, so as a developer you want to build an app that will sell in all top devices. Right now it is apple, but that device is limited no buttons. Games I think sell more than any other form of software. I think Microsoft is positioning themselves to attract developers interested in selling their games in the xbox, zune, and windows mobile.

Wow. Was that boring.

Not even enough new to make it worth being snarky about it.

So, maybe we'll see something new in OS X 10.7 which, if Apple follows their normal schedule, will release in Fall 2011?

The iphone definately has the ease of api use factor going for it when developing applications. Just 1 phone.

Speaking from experience, it is a lot more difficult to make applications for blackberry smartphones. Does the phone have a touch screen? What network is it on? Does it have wifi? Which OS is it running? etc...

@mikegalos

agreed...... could have been over in 30 minutes if not for showing a bunch of apps to fill it out time wise

"Snow Leopard pricing. Apple is finally charging the right price for the latest in a long list of minor upgrades: $29 to Leopard users."

I'd say that this is just Apple's way of admitting that Snow Leopard is lipstick on a toy pig failure.

"Apple copies Microsoft Sync, no one notices."

Actually, they copied Microsoft Voice Command(TM) which is much older.  I had that option on my Pocket PC PDA long before Windows Mobile was actually referred to as "Windows Mobile".

Darksages

One vast difference is whether the vendor's store is A channel for distribution or THE ONLY channel allowed for distribution.

I was "watching" the keynote on Engadget and Ars Technica. Ars had a CoveritLive blog going like y'all did at PDC, which I thought was better than refresing the page, like I had to do with Engadget. I thought both did a great job.

That jab at MS and Windows 7 was typical Apple, but this time the hypocracy on Apple's part was a new low. Diss Windows 7 for being just an upgrade and then go on to talk about SL as an upgrade to Leopard? Really!

It's strange that Apple is selling SL at $30 bucks! I think they have forgotten that their sheep are willing to pay top money a bag of Jobs diarrhea as long as it has a fruit stamped on the bag.

A poster on Engadget made a good point about Apple's Windows 7: No mention of a specific feature that MS copied from Mac OS X. Just a diss. Nothing to *** about the new version of Windows.

QuickTime X does sound nice! I hope Windows users can also use the quick editor.

It did seem boring...

But please, Mike Galos.....you are such a lying hypocrite it's unbelievable!

OPENCL!..Talk about something new and innovative that your favorite company doesn't support!

What does MS have that is equivalent to what Apple calls "Grand Central"?

Meanwhile, creating an OS that has OpenCL support right out of the box to harness the power of the GPU is something you call "not enough new to be snarky about"...

How's those Aero Snaps!

Give me a break you lying hypocrite.

Hey Wae,

What is MS's pricing plans for it's minor point release?

I guess if they over charge for their point release it means it's a great new experience, but if Apple charges a SMALL amount for their point release, with some actual REAL innovation (GrandCentral, OpenCL), it's admitting that it's putting lipstick on a toy pig failure...

Talk about double standards.

The cheapshot on Windows 7 backfired. Somebody on UStream sent a live shot from the WWDC. When Bertrand Serlet did his cheapshot, the crowd groaned in disapproval. Seriously, if Apple execs are underestimating Windows 7, they might be in for a world of shock when Windows 7 outsells OS-X 10.6. Focus on your products and stop the cheapshots. It doesn't make Apple look like a professional company when they resort to these tactics.

Overall, a decent WWDC, but this was stuff that should have been in the iPhone, new features to OS-X that's for the most part technologies already in Windows Vista and Windows 7, and really nothing earth shattering. If anything, this still puts SnowLeopard behind Windows 7. While the price drops are decent, it does nothing for the average joe whose not going to shell over a grand for this stuff. Microsoft already had code for taking advantage of multi-core in Windows Vista called Processor Power Management. Now 2 years after Windows Vista's launch, they're just getting to it? Its more like SnowLeopard is catching up to Windows Vista, mostly.

Very disappointing. No Jobs, more expensive hardware, factually inept statistics, and cheap shots. Way to go there Mr. Schiller.

Subzero,

No one will be surprised when Windows 7 outsells OS X 10.6

In fact, I think everyone would be surprised if it was the reverse!

"OPENCL!..Talk about something new and innovative that your favorite company doesn't support!

What does MS have that is equivalent to what Apple calls "Grand Central"?"

It's called Direct X Compute in DirectX 11.  The CUDA API is also an API built into NVIDIA drivers, and has been available for some time now.  Where was Apple with their NVIDIA partnership on CUDA adoption?  

*crickets*

"some actual REAL innovation (GrandCentral, OpenCL)"

"REAL" innovation that NVIDIA and Intel have had for years now - in Windows.  You're just embarrasing yourself by thinking that Apple invented this stuff.

Wae,

You aren't always such an obnoxious douche bag, so why start now?

Is CUDA an open standard?  How many graphics cards support it?

I NEVER said Apple INVENTED it.

If I were you, I'd read a little bit more about CUDA instead of just spouting off at the mouth to try to prove how right you are....because it seems like you are the one embarrasing YOURSELF.

"Q : What are the advantages/disadvantages between using CUDA vs. OpenCL vs. DirectX Compute?

A : CUDA is NVIDIA's GPU computing architecture and it runs C with CUDA extensions, OpenCL and DX Compute. The differences between these are stylistic. Today the only one available to develop applications with is C with CUDA extensions. OpenCL and DirectX_Compute are NOT competing against CUDA… they are different ways of accessing CUDA (in addition to C, Fortran, etc.)."

read that again wae..

"OpenCL and DirectX_Compute are NOT competing against" CUDA....

So in case you haven't realized...an open standard, in most cases, such as this, is better than a closed proprietary  (DirectX) method of accessing a technology...

Wow, I live in Sydney and I cannot believe I sacrificed sleep over this bore of a keynote. Two hours is a joke - and most of it was filler or a rehash of the lengthy March event earlier in the year.

1. The Microsoft ads have clearly caught Apple where it hurts - which explains the dramatic slashing of prices. Yes, they're still overpriced hunks of metal though.

2. iPhone 3.0 - overrated. It is a fantastic device, but the constant wild applause, cheering and "oooooohs and ahhhhhs" over features that other phones have had for half a decade is just rank silliness. The camera still lacks a flash, Safari still doesn't support flash....bla bla bla. I could go on and on. It's been two years already Apple, get with the program.

3. Stupid jabs at Microsoft. I mean, seriously, the height of hypocrisy. They say Windows is old tech, yet applaud and gush over Microsoft Exchange, and boast that Snow Leopard builds on a three year old Leopard! Please Apple, your conga line of front-row iCabal ***-lickers might have been born yesterday, the rest of humanity wasn't.

Wae,

"CUDA provides both a low level API and a higher level API. The initial CUDA SDK was made public 15 February 2007. NVIDIA has released versions of the CUDA API for Microsoft Windows and Linux. Mac OS X was also added as a fully supported platform in version 2.0[9], which supersedes the beta released February 14, 2008.[10]"

Whatever Wae, you're a real moron sometimes....stay calm and you're alright, go off the handle once you realize that Apple has something built into their OS an open standard and you go nuts off the walls...ridiculous.

Oh and one more thing, since Apple forgot, when they compared the availability of apps for each platform, it was utterly contemptible and disingenuous of them to completely exclude Windows Mobile from such comparisons. But you won't see the iCabal mentioning that.

"What does MS have that is equivalent to what Apple calls "Grand Central"?"

A multiprocessor thread scheduler that wasn't broken in the first place.

Giving a fancy name to your fix for a broken thread scheduler doesn't change it from being a catch-up bug fix to replace obsolete code.

RobertC

Shhhh. You weren't supposed to notice that.

It's like the Sometimes they're combined, sometimes they're not OS X usage numbers that Paul caught.

I especially love the fact it's gonna cost existing iPhone users $18 and an additional $200 just to upgrade. Also you have to be "qualified" for that privilege.  

What a kick in the nuts especially since a lot of these people were the morons who paid $600 to beta test the original iPhone.

RobertC

they also did not account for 99% of them being tip calculators

If you ignore all the innovation, this was a boring keynote.  OpenCL is a major advance that is going to have a huge affect on CPU-intensive applications such as video rendering.  Can't wait.  (Gee, and at a developer conference.  Maybe Apple isn't as dumb as you claim, lotsamystuff.)  

And darksages, that MS and Palm and RIM sort of have app stores now, I guess they've closed the gap.  Yeah, that's the ticket.

Paul neglected to mention the $99 iPhone 3G.  That's a bullet aimed at Palm's heart.  Apparently some investors found the keynote newsworthy, as they bid Palm down 6.5% today.

@meason, yes fart apps, tip apps, and so forth seem to be all the rage for iPhone owners.

It just seems to me that Apple is needing to say things that are more out of touch with reality to keep people interested in these press events. Sad thing is how all of these clueless media outlets give creedence to this crap by covering it second by second. I have a feeling that blog that covered Jobs' bodily functions would find a following.......

Must be sad to be a sheep in the apple flock.

[Paul neglected to mention the $99 iPhone 3G.  That's a bullet aimed at Palm's heart.  Apparently some investors found the keynote newsworthy, as they bid Palm down 6.5% today.]

Bold strategy by Apple, but Palm is working off a low base. It doesn't need to sell a bajillion phones, it just needs to sell enough to keep the company afloat and on a sustainable path of growth. The Pre has a lot going for it and it's early days yet.

MikeGalos,

Once again your pathetic bias put blinders on those sexy eyes.

Grand Central isn't just a "thread scheduler".

If you do ANY reading at all, it's specifically optimized for multiple cores, not just multiple processors, and not just a fix of a "broken thread scheduler" as you claim.

You're so pathetic it's laughable...but your beard is damn hot!

Uh. Hate to break it to all of you saying "Look at all the innovations announced today with OpenCL and GrandCentral, etc" but, seriously...

Apple announced those OS X changes (for what little they're worth) a year ago.

Apple announced the iPhone OS 3 changes three months ago.

So, today's innovation was what?

Rebranding Mac Book to Mac Book Pro?

Adding back a Firewire port they said you didn't want?

Adding an SD port?

Charging for a minor service pack?

Seriously. What was announced today that you think actually was technically significant.

@Panache...

"What does MS have that is equivalent to what Apple calls "Grand Central"?"

It's called DirectX. the mature version of it, which is fully capable of utilising the GPU, is in directX11, called DirectCompute (Or something very very similar).

In fact, if you use media player or center in Win7 to transcode videos to a portable device, you're ALREADY using it.

Also, Adobe's Photoshop CS4 makes use of GPU processing for various (but admittedly not all) image processing.

On a very similar note, a directX GPU has been capable for many many years of manipulating 3d geometry (Hardware T&L) for what seems like an eternity - arguably, this was an early step into GPU based processing.

PhysX computing - processing physics simulations - has been around for a while, and is now built into Nvidia drivers for windows.

There has been a GPU client for the folding@home project (and others) for several years.

So, erm. Unless one of us is completely mistaken, GPU-based processing has been available in windows for a very very long time indeed, and has recently come to fruition with a complete set of APIs.

MikeGalos,

Just curious, what is technically significant about Windows 7 over Windows Vista?

I also like how you keep throwing in "charging for a minor service pack", but I haven't heard you say one negative thing about MS's "minor service pack" called Windows 7 (it is a point release after all, isn't it?)

Will they be charging standard upgrade prices for a point release?

Let's hear you talk about that.

Panache

"Grand Central isn't just a "thread scheduler"."

Right. It's a thread scheduler with a pompous name.

Mike Galos,

How about including the full quote....

What makes "Grand Central" pompous anyway?

I guess "Aero" for the windows desktop isn't pompous?  Was it innovative?  Hmmm...let's see...Mac OS X had a desktop compositing engine way before Windows...hell, even LINUX had one.

Pretty amazing what that "teletype OS with only stdin, stdout, and stderr" was able to accomplish years before Windows.

LOL!  Dude....you start this crap and then can't keep up...lame.

How's that beard?

I wouldnt call SL a service pack, it does have a lot of changes in it but not enough to warrent the full $129 apple charges for.  I thought $29 is a good price for it.  I honestly expected the price to be around $50 for the os.

This was not show for the techies.  

It was a show for the shareholders, who will be very, very happy with parts of the business one year from now when the fruits of the show are made obvious.  Anyone disagree?

Apple has positioned itself well to keep both it's mind and market share...and that's all it really had to do -->  Keep the OS x and iPhone/touch businesses from going stagnant, keeps its fans interested, keep the media and its best developers from developing a wandering eye.

Mission accomplished.  Anyone disagree?

Panache, are you actually foaming at the mouth? Cause that's the impression you're giving off.

I urge you to go away for a few hours, maybe grab a beer, or get laid, watch some TV, then come back.

If you still feel this vitriolic then, then by all means, carry on.

But right now, your sanity appears to be collapsing in on itself.

"Is CUDA an open standard?"

No, and it doesn't need to be.  ATI has been in the "sh1tter" (that's a Jobs term) since AMD bought them up.  NVIDIA rules the roost in graphics and CGPU/GCGPU/whatever.  Intel is nowhere close to that unless they can pull a rabbit out of their a$$ with Larrabee - and Intel's onboard graphics use too much "CPU-like" functionality, which is bad for 3D graphics.  They are fine for 2D graphics and multimedia, including high-bandwidth video such as Blu-ray, but not that much moreso than their CPU's if they weren't offloading it all to their minimal graphics chips.

@panache:

I know what CUDA does.  You pretend that Grand Central is something special, but it isn't.  It accesses CUDA.  CUDA was there all along - on Windows.  So was PhysX for that matter (is that anywhere on OS X??).  It's just another developer API for clueless coders built on top of C.  That adds extra overhead in coding.  People are using CUDA - and NOW!  The Windows multi-threading scheduler already works just fine, thank you very much.

Maybe you should honestly look at multi-threaded CUDA apps on Windows before you give Apple any credit here, because they certainly don't deserve any.

....although I'm sure you could figure that 12 years olds can optimize their f4rt apps for multi-threading and GPU acceleration on that shiny new v1.0 64-bit kernel that Apple is releasing in Snow Leopard.

Ocean, that makes perfect sense, I agree wholeheartedly.

However, I did expect more from a "developer's conference"

Wae,

Thanks for bringing the conversation back to normalcy.

I'm pretty sure Grand Central doesn't access CUDA, but OpenCL doesn.  Grand Central is supposed to be the newly optimized thread scheduler for multi-core CPUs, no?

Either way, I stand by the fact that it's better to access a technology through an open standard than not.  As a developer, I'd rather target an open standard than a proprietary one.  I'm sure you could understand that.

Still not one of my iphone friends has had to have it fixed or replaced, but, all but one of my Treo friends had the Treo replaced. Palm = junk and with stinky service and support. I guess that's why they would sell extended warranties, because they would be out of business. My Treo had a 3 month warranty from Palm. ATT picked up 9 months, but it dies right after the 3rd month of use, much like my friends. My buddy's  BB Storm has battery death every day in or reading room, while the iPhone users enjoy service, even in leaded walls. Active sync makes it grweat for me, but all the Blackbarries don't get an Exchange calendar unless you pay RIM $20,000 for their server/software or whatever extortion you wish to call it. Partenrs with MS is a good thing for Apple, and now with Snow Leopard "update". At least Apple had the common sense not to charge too much for an update....I mean upgrade ;)

"OpenCL is a major advance that is going to have a huge affect on CPU-intensive applications such as video rendering."

Already done:

www.nvidia.com/.../cuda_home.html & Audio

panache

Wow. Cutting and pasting snippets from old posts and making my point for me in the process.

Actually, my comment on "teletype OS with only stdin, stdout, and stderr" was that the underlying 1960s architecture was still there and everything modern was hacked on top of it.

And the broken scheduler that didn't properly deal with large numbers of threads on large numbers of processors is a great example.

You see threads (also known as lightweight processes) were created by IBM and Microsoft in 1987 for OS|2 1.0 as an improvement on the costly Unix requirement of having every new task require a full heavyweight process.

The need for Apple to create "Grand Central" as a fix is at least partly tied to that ancient Unix architecture. (Note that other Unixoid vendors have already had to redo their old-style "process model" schedulers. Apple was just insanely late to the party.

Oh, and my beard's fine.I notice that you're afraid to use your real name or show your face. That says a lot.

Wae,

It's funny you bring up the fart apps instead of bringing up the other apps...for example, the games that are being developed and any other applications....the amount of fart apps is pretty small compared to some of the others.

I mean, it seems like there are a lot of big developers getting on board the iPhone/iPod Touch with whatever technologies they offer.  Why criticize it over some stupid fart apps?  Are there any fart apps for WinMo?  I sure hope not because then that would make you a huge hypocrite.

Would people stop saying "This was not show for the techies." or "this was for developers" the thing is that this is it, they announce everything "major" for this year. So we have nothing else to see this year. I wish I was wrong

"Grand Central is supposed to be the newly optimized thread scheduler for multi-core CPUs, no?"

According to Apple, Grand Central was a set of API's (or an SDK, depending on where you read) that focuses on multi-threaded floating-point computing that is inherent to GPU's.  It leverages OpenCL as a base API.  Grand Central is just Apple's branding for it.

At least, that was awhile back....

Now it seems they've separated the two.  Now it's called "Grand Central Dispatch", and they've segregated the label from OpenCL.  

Previously, "Grand Central" was supposed to encompass all aspects of multi-threading and parallel computing in OS X.  Why they've separated the two, I have no idea.

And for everybody who is confusing Grand Central Dispatch with other features like OpenCL, GCD is a new thread scheduler for the core OS.

It does add programming commands to make writing multi-thread apps easier but still not as easy as Microsoft's Parallel Extensions which includes PLINQ (Parallel Language Independent Query) and TPL (Task Parallel Library) and which was introduced in 2007 (and their latest generation are included in .NET 4.0)

See: www.apple.com/.../technology if you are confused about what Grand Central actually is.

MikeGalos,

MS invented threads?!  LOL!  You GOTTA Provide information to back this one up!  PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE!!  For the sake of us all!

You're whole point of the "hacking in" of things on top of stdin, stderr, stdout is absurd, and a RIDICULOUS reason to bash anything.  It doesn't even make SENSE!

You still insist "Grand Central" is a fix without providing any PROOF that something was broken to begin with!?  Come on man, you gotta do better than that!

"Are there any fart apps for WinMo?"

Not to my knowledge.  But then if you have to ask, I'd say that it isn't something so common that the users are so enamored with something so frivolous.

@mike:

During the beta periods of last year, the wording for "Grand Central" was that it was a library/API/SDK encompassing all technologies.  OpenCL was mentioned on the Grand Central page as being a component of it.  That page has since been changed.

>>we have nothing else to see this year.<<

If your interest wasn't piqued, you were not in the target audience.

I did gloss over the changes in 10.6, and it doesn't look too interesting, especially to normal users. Too much of it is evolutionary.

On the other hand, they are making it easy to upgrade from 10.5. Small price, get installer. Compared to the licensing and availability maze on the Windows side. I'm still not sure I want to upgrade Vista.

@mikegalos & panache1023 - This could go on all night....you are keeping the masses entertained here.

@mikegalos - It seems that you were wrong about who has a man-crush on you.

@DRWAM - Very good, honest review form you. Thanks for the sanity.

Interesting that Apple pointed out that Palm had only 18 applications in their "store" on the day of the release...how many did Apple have on day 1 of the iPhone?

"Are there any fart apps for WinMo? "

Yup, in fact this one got a facelift in January - devphone.net/.../new-design-for-ufart-windows-mobile-fart-app

Enjoy your evenings, everybody...its beer time here!!!

--tayme

panache

No. I said IBM and Microsoft jointly invented threads and they were first used in the jointly developed OS|2 1.0.  I don't know whether they came from Microsoft in Redmond or IBM in Boca Raton or Hursley.

Maybe you can dig out a copy of Gordon Letwin's excellent book "Inside OS|2" and see if he mentions which of the three dev labs came up with it. (Most likely Redmond or Boca since Hursley pretty much focused on the graphics engine and not the kernel)

tayme

" It seems that you were wrong about who has a man-crush on you."

Hey, I never said only one mac fanboi qualified. (Sorry if that makes you jealous.)

But, thanks for showing your cross-platform expertise in fart apps.

Waethorn,

I guess I just double checked to be sure I was right.

:-)

Fart apps? I once used speech recognition with a Performa 6115 around 1996. I let out a loud fart and it closed my browser. I didn't think that it sounded like "quit Netscape", but maybe I'm wrong. I hope that the technology is better now. I used 2 or 3 iPhone apps for voice dialing and was not impressed as I had to open the app first. It's easier to click favorites and choose someone from the list, then getting the speech recognition to work 75% of the time. Still, iPhone favorites was easier than the Treo or Black Berry. I'm glad that the price was lowered for the 8GB 3G down to more acceptable levels. Fully subsidized would be better, but ATT would then raise the wireless rate $10/month. Duh!

DRWAM

"I let out a loud fart and it closed my browser. I didn't think that it sounded like "quit Netscape", but maybe I'm wrong."

Maybe it sounded like Alt-F4 and the code still had desktop items in its grammar?

BTW: Speaking of Ouch, the rumor mill is that the unlimited data with tethering plan will be $70/month when AT&T gets their act together to offer it.

@lehenbauer:

I recently tried a pretty amazing little program for video editing recently on an Atom 330 system with NVIDIA Ion and CUDA doing all the work (including HD rendering).

This was the program:

http://loilo.tv/sp/en/

Pretty slick system.  If video editing could be made "fun", this would be the program to do it.

panache

"the amount of fart apps is pretty small compared to some of the others"

When you have to qualify "the amount of fart apps" with just "pretty small" that says a LOT about the app domain out there for iPhone.

Well, at least now even the most rabid Apple fanbois stopped saying "Apple won't abandon their PowerPC customers" like they still were a month ago.

"the unlimited data with tethering plan will be $70/month"

Still sounds better than here.

Here, it's either $8/MB (you read that right) over your regular smartphone data plan, or you have to add a separate data plan normally used for PC Card/USB devices which only goes up to $60 for 3GB - that's ON TOP of your smartphone data plan, which can be as much as $45 for unlimited on your phone only.

WOWWW !!!

The level of technical knowledge of so-called tech geek here regarding the 2 major personal computing platform is quite astounding, including from Paul and Mike MS Galos.

For people like Doc and me who are quite fluent and daily users of both platforms for decades, it's consternating...

Let's do some justice here...

IMO a service pack is, as mentioned in the name, a service update... it is here to make an OS work as it should have been, fix the bugs. No new technologies introduced here. That's what 7 is in regards to Vista. Vista introduced slew of new techs and feature vs. XP. Many things were not done right, 7 changes that. Same kernel, driver model, UAC... few tweaks here and there.

Granted Leopard introduced many new features, hence major update. Snow Leopard introduces few visible improvement for the user. hence the name Leopard still. Where the major work has been done is in the kernel here and for the developer. Of course the major tren is to bring the OS in line with the current trend in hardware: allow softs to make use of lots of cores (>8) even when the soft is not optimized for it (grand central technology), and use of GPU to accelerate computing. Apparently everybody knows s**t about grand central here...

The interface will be revamped to be much more uniform unlike what Paul claims and will sport the elegant new grey buttons as in iTunes (exit aqua).

So yes Snow Leopard will be a major update but not a service pack, hence the $29 and yes Win7 is a service pack to Vista... let's see how much they charge for it...

Hardware side -> nothing exciting

iPhone: 32GB and faster processor and memory : needed.

iPhone OS 3.0: They did what they had to do to stay relevant in front of Android and WebOS. Nice feature added here though is voice control (Anybody has heard of SYNC on a smartphone ?? I thought it was in the Fords...). Spotlight on the iPhone is good too. All the rest was overdue.

So the price of the update is right here: $0 Can't wait for it.

I also like the 64/32 bit spin of Paul here:

How to turn a feature in disadvantage: Apple goes through great lengths to make sure people with 32 bits apps will still be able to run them in Snow Leopard and that sucks...

Win64 cannot do that but that's better of course !!!! ;-)

1)  I'm far from a mac fanboi...I just don't like Mike Galos

2)  The reason I don't know if there are any fart apps for WinMo is because nobody give's a crap about it...so it gets no attention whatsoever from anyone

3)  Galos, I only heard about two fart apps.  How many have you heard of?  If I only know about 2, out of the "50,000" apps Apple claims exist, I would classify that as pretty small, close to 0, right?  You're the one that espouses "choice"...but as long as it's from MS.  Typical hypocrite.

Anyway, I'm done for now, more important stuff to do than listen to MG claim MS invented everything.

Hey I just thought of it: this blog should be called FOX computing news !!!! :))) or the O'Thurrott spin zone !!!

"So yes Snow Leopard will be a major update but not a service pack"

Sorry I meant Snow Leopard will be a minor update...

DaveInLa

As somebody you think has quite astounding technical knowledge let me issue a few corrections...

If Leopard with very few real user features is a "major update" then saying Windows 7 with a new UI and dozens of major features is certainly a major release and not a service pack.

As for the 64-bit comment, you have it backwards and Paul is right and not just spinning. Windows Vista 64-bit and Windows 7 64-bit can absolutely run 32-bit applications despite being 64-bit operating systems. That level of compatibility is always handled during a transition (as it was from 16-bit to 32-bit several years ago) It's Snow Leopard that is still missing some pure 64-bit components according to Paul which means it will have to run the 32-bit conversion layer even when not running 32-bit applications. This is surprising considering Apple announced earlier that it would be pure 64-bit and spent a full OS rev cycle with no user feature improvements with this goal as one of the keys to justify that delay.

You also are attributing magic powers to Grand Central that it doesn't have. I'd suggest reading the PDF paper on it on the Apple site page that I already listed. Unfortuately you'll find that it doesn't do what you think it does.

@mike:

With Snow Leopard only offering partial 64-bit stuff for it's "core components", what else has changed in Snow Leopard over Leopard besides the kernel?

Or, does that mean that Snow Leopard just has more 64-bit core components over Leopard?

Does that also mean that the "64-bit" label applied to Leopard was just a lie?  ;)

Also, with this *new* "Grand Central Dispatch", and the segregation of OpenCL, it no longer has any luster.  Grand Central was going to be this all-encompassing many-threaded, unified SDK which leveraged OpenCL for parallel processing on GCGPU's along with future "many-core" processor technology - together (think Larrabee).  Now it isn't.  And they changed the name to boot.  *YAWN!*

"elegant new grey buttons"

LOL!  

Funniest.  Post.  EVAR!

Welcome to Windows 95 all over again.

"elegant new grey buttons"

LOL!

That should be the humourous title for Paul's next Windows Weekly, when he reviews Snow Leopard.

Now that tech reviewers know what Apple thinks about Windows 7, they can go ahead and write their reviews.

Apart from that, from what I've read, Apple did what it had to. The $99 iPhones might hurt their profits, but we'll see. The cheap shots at Microsoft weren't really warranted, but Apple has to keep its fan base energized.

I'm reading that iPhone 3.0 has 'Voice Control' which can dial a contact and also play a song. I wonder what my fart would play? Mike, you're the gaslinguist. What song do you think it would play? I guess it would depend on the pitch, tone and/or multiple rips. Maybe it would just call my mother. ;)

A little upset today Paul? First off, Engadget deffinitly has the best live blogging as always and hopefully they'll make it better someday instead of refreshing a million times (Google Wave perhaps =] ).

While I found the large amount of Microsoft bashing a little much, I think this was a pretty standard keynote and the products rolled out were as expected. Sure, lots of people expected a "One more thing..." which never came but they did give a lot of excitement to the iPhone crowd and only having to wait a week and a half.  I really wish Microsoft would release a Office app. But again, all around I liked todays keynote and can't wait for the new phone and 3.0 especially.

Although, I do get disappointed again and again from the lack of support for developing iPhone Apps on Windows....

I don't understand what is different about the iphone. Does it have different hardware?

You'd be an idiot to actually believe Apple's claims.

@mikegalos - Sorry to burst your bubble...I'm not a "mac fanboi" as you said....but I am glad to see that you consder yourself a "fanboi"....gosh, I feel so young using that word!

fanboi fanboi fanboi fanboi fanboi fanboi fanboi fanboi fanboi fanboi fanboi fanboi fanboi fanboi fanboi fanboi fanboi fanboi fanboi fanboi fanboi fanboi fanboi fanboi fanboi fanboi fanboi fanboi fanboi fanboi fanboi fanboi fanboi fanboi fanboi fanboi fanboi fanboi fanboi fanboi fanboi fanboi fanboi fanboi fanboi fanboi fanboi fanboi fanboi fanboi fanboi fanboi fanboi fanboi fanboi fanboi fanboi fanboi fanboi fanboi fanboi fanboi fanboi fanboi fanboi fanboi fanboi fanboi fanboi fanboi fanboi fanboi fanboi fanboi fanboi fanboi fanboi fanboi fanboi fanboi fanboi fanboi fanboi fanboi fanboi fanboi fanboi fanboi fanboi fanboi fanboi fanboi fanboi fanboi fanboi fanboi fanboi fanboi fanboi fanboi fanboi fanboi fanboi fanboi fanboi fanboi fanboi fanboi fanboi fanboi fanboi fanboi fanboi fanboi fanboi fanboi fanboi fanboi fanboi fanboi fanboi fanboi

That was fun!!!

--tayme

I see an app to view medical labs, but I hope it's better than the MIMvista app that requires a $20,000 MIMvista license as well as having a WiFi account on the server and that the patient actually had to have the study imported to MIMvista [Windows only..go figure] . And yes, I bought MIMvista to make 3D fusion imaging CD's of PET/CT for the referring doctors, because our PACS [GE Centricity] cannot make one. WinMo 7 can have a great advantage if it is supported by apps that will allow a doc to use CPOE [computed physician order entry]. As posted before, Zynx is Windows only and is a large set of customizable pre-canned order sets. It cost a lot, but having to build it yourself would be a daunting task to say the least. I gotta tell you that if WinMo 7 can do CPOE, there are very few doctors that would not own a smartphone with it installed. They wouldn't blink to give it their iPhone to have this capability which would safe them time and aggravation of calling in a verbal order.

Hmm, seems some folks are right. Grand Central's details have changed somewhat.

now, Grand Central "[makes...] all of Mac OS X multicore aware..."

Wow. this is the kind of stuff I'd have thought we'd have had to wait until 1990 AT LEAST to see.

wait, what year is it?

And as for 64-bit OS. I remember seeing plenty of Mac G5 ads proclaiming it to be the "world's first 64-bit desktop computer".

Not only was that so desperately wrong at the time, but it's still incorrect, and should read something more along the lines of "the last major OS to fully support native 64-bit"

(So, I'm in a bad mood, so what?)

"It should, after three years of development on a point release."

Why don't you also mention that Windows 7 is also a point release. It's Windows 6.1. From 6.0 to 6.1 is a point release. Can't you see that?

Microsoft Sync copied Nokia. Microsoft fanboys with fanboy websites fail to mention it.

But seriously, this sort of post is why the SuperSite for Windows is not taken seriously by anyone.

" And they added Firewire 800. Seriously, how about two more USB ports?"

Maybe because FW800 is faster than USB 2? Yes, it is. For things like video, or high volume transfers, it performs better than the up and down USB 2.

This sort of post makes Paul a troll.. on his own blog. No one thought it could be done. But he has. Jumped the shark a long, long time ago.

This post also shows how much of a hypocrite you are. Would you even dare post such things when MSFT are at Mix or some other show? Of course not. If you did you'd get a memo from Microsoft telling you to back off. And you'd wilt when they do.

Anyway, all looked great. Much better hardware, software and mobile devices than Microsoft. Nothing Microsoft has comes close.

Another point on this post, it's all about the jealousy that Microsoft and their fanboys (like Paul) have towards the press Apple gets. Has been going on for years and still happens. When Microsoft demos something (even the Natal vapourware) there is silence. Jealousy is what that is.

"In Microsoft's case, Windows 7 is a nice revision to Windows Vista. And Snow Leopard is a minor revision (service pack) to Mac OS X Leopard"

"www.winsupersite.com/.../win7_toosoon.asp"

"Here's what we do know. Windows 7 can and should be considered Vista Release 2 (R2). In fact, I think Microsoft should market the business versions of the OS under that very name. Beginning with the release of Vista SP1 and Windows Server 2008, Microsoft no longer forks its Windows code tree for new releases. So the next versions of Windows client (7), Windows Server (2008 R2), and Windows Home Server (WHS) will all be based from exactly the same code. Microsoft will simply combine the right components to create the Windows version it wants and ship it. It's a much simpler system than before.

In fact, at least one Microsoftie, speaking off the record during my trip to Redmond last week, explained that Windows 7, in many ways, would simply be Vista SP2. From a compatibility standpoint, all the work Microsoft is doing will show up in Vista first and will work identically in Windows 7. It's not changing the underlying platform at all, so if a hardware device or software application works on Vista, it will work fine on 7 as well."

"Engadget deffinitly has the best live blogging as always and hopefully they'll make it better someday instead of refreshing a million times"

www.macrumors.com their main page auto re-refreshed during the entire event.  I just left it open in a space:)

"Safari 4 today for OS X, Windows. Yawn."

I guess if acid 3 test compatibility at 100% is not important.

"Um. They sound the same to me. Jerk."

Hey Paul got your panties in a wad??  There is an app for that:)

Oh wait you gave up the iPhone.  I am sure the Zune HD will come up with a "un-wad panties app" real soon.  410 Microsoft points it will be!!!!

"www.macrumors.com their main page auto re-refreshed during the entire event.  I just left it open in a space:)"

That's nice and all but I'd really like something a little nicer that doesn't need to be refreshed... auto-refresh is kind of the same idea and sucks just as much.

"I guess if acid 3 test compatibility at 100% is not important."

Or rather, if having 100% acid 3 compatibility is not more important than having a secure browser.

you know apple has hit it out of the park when it roils paul the-pissant-critic thurrott THIS terribly.  

""Um. They sound the same to me. Jerk."

Hey Paul got your panties in a wad??  There is an app for that:)"

The thing with the internet is that grown-ups that act like kids, throw tantrums and are basically child-like have a much bigger audience. Where it was just close friends and family that saw how they acted, they now have a world-wide audience seeing how childish and stupid they are. Welcome to the SuperSite for "Windows" blog.

Safari and Chrome are changing the browser landscape. WebKit is the important component. This included mobile devices -- both Android and iPhone also using WebKit. Paul doesn't get that.

"That's nice and all but I'd really like something a little nicer that doesn't need to be refreshed... auto-refresh is kind of the same idea and sucks just as much."

Umm if you dont have to do anything how does that suck?? The macrumors site refreshed its self, it was not something I had to do, it was not browser specific.

"Or rather, if having 100% acid 3 compatibility is not more important than having a secure browser."

I so agree.  Lets please list the know exploits that actually have succeeded (as in done something to a computer) with all versions of Safari and all versions IE.

"Exchange support in Snow Leopard. Apple makes fun of Microsoft to comic effect (see above) ... Unless, of course, they need Microsoft. Which they do, to add Exchange support to its products. Oh, wait. "With Exchange support built into Snow Leopard, there is no extra charge for Mac OS users while Windows users usually have to pay extra." There it is."

What does this really say?  Mac are used more and more in the corporate environment (just google it) where Exchange is the defacto email system.  Oh and Entourage sucks and now Mac users at work don't have to use that crap anymore.

Believe it or not Lindy, I really like Entourage. It was easier to set up than Outlook 2007, which took several tries. I just preferred it over iCal and Mail. If I get a copy of Snow Leopard [SL] I will give it a try, but you may get the idea by my posts that it's hard for me to change:)

Please note that I still use Office 2004, although I have the media version of Office 2008. i just felt no need to upgrade since 2004 works very well for me. I have been told that 2008 has similarities to Office 2007 for Windows, which is on all of my Windows PC's, but I have yet to try it.

tayme

In being called a Mac fanboi with a man-crush on me, you were upset by "fanboi"?

That's disturbing.

"I guess if acid 3 test compatibility at 100% is not important."

Then you'd guess right. Seeing how ACID3 isn't an official test of any official standards done by any official standards body, yeah, I'd say 100% compatibility is pretty seriously unimportant.

"I guess if acid 3 test compatibility at 100% is not important."

It isn't important in the "grand" scheme of things.  Although I'm happy to see the WebKit engine be as standards compliant as possible.  Still, I'm sure their download servers won't be overly taxed today, except for the morbidly curious and robertsjoe.

Still, pretty typical Apple, and nice to see the very typical Apple rumor mill be pretty much out of there minds.  I saw one prediction that Apple would buy EA.

As Paul mentioned, calling out MS for the improvements to Windows from Vista to 7, and then announcing the exact same thing in OS X is hilarious.  Also, calling out Palm for their small app store is also funny, since Apple started somewhere too, and I'm sure there weren't alot of apps on it.

The cheap shots were also a good indicator that the MS ads are working, and that 7 is a solid product in the eyes of the general computing echo chamber.  They never really mention at all why OS X is better, just cheap shots.  It's quite telling really.

Still announcing 64-bit?  Wasn't it like 2-3 years ago when the Moscone Center was littered with big and fanciful "64" signs.  Aren't we already there?  Why still mention it?

"Believe it or not Lindy, I really like Entourage."  Call Microsoft and let them know, you could be in a TV ad.  

At my place of work, the marketing and advertisement departments wont touch it, they use webmail even in basic format.  Exchange 2010 will support full feature webmail that only IE users see today.  The recent SP2 update for Sharepoint fixed the remaining Safari and FF quirks in Sharepoint.

@miguelgalos: " I'd say 100% compatibility is pretty seriously unimportant."

That's the attitude that resulted in the crap browsers that came out of Microsoft.

@RobertsJoe:

MikeGalos will start loving the acid test and standards compliance as soon as MS makes it a priority.

Isn't that right Mike?  You are your beard looooove anything MS tells you to love, right Mike?

@panache1023: "MikeGalos will start loving the acid test and standards compliance as soon as MS makes it a priority."

That is true @panache1023. Both Mike and Paul run according to the memos that come from Microsoft. They are sheep blindly following the Borg.

iPhone 3G Sucks

(See what I did there?)

Totally off topic, I have been seeing a commercial on TV for Bing.com ....actually pretty good commercial....kind of funny.

I wonder how effective the commercials are....I don't remember seeing any TV commercials for Google...but hey.....

personally, not really a fan of Bing so far...but the commercial was good!

Wow. 105 comments as of my reading of this. Nice to see Windows 7 doesn't really get this much attention in one post ;)

mikegalos and waethorn take up the most defending ... uhhhh ... whatever. (roberstjoe was in third place but he doesn't count because no one really pays attention to him anyway).

Nice to see the Supersite blog truckin' right along :)

OS X Server is just $499.

Look at Windows Server:

Windows Server 2008 Standard $999

Windows Server 2008 Standard $1,199

Windows Server 2008 Enterprise $3,999

The Microsoft tax at work.

Leopard : Snow Leopard :: Vista : Windows 7

A point upgrade of OS X, to Snow Leopard is only $29.

A point upgrade from XP to Windows Vista (and it will be similar from Vista to Windows 7) $219!!!

Microsoft tax at work, yet again.

Kia Rio is just $6000.

Look at Corvette:

c6 is $50,000.

z06 is $70,000.

ZR1 is > $100k.

The Chevy tax at work.

@panache1023: "I wonder how effective the commercials are....I don't remember seeing any TV commercials for Google...but hey....."

There are no commercials for Google because they have the best search engine out there and the most users. People google for things, they don't "live" them or "bing" them. Hence why Microsoft has to buy users via commercials. Or when they were paying them to use their inferior search.

Bing stands for "Bing is no good"

@hamiltonstallings: Chevy? Are they still in business?

New MacBooks with even better battery life. Something Windows can't get even close to. Bad battery performance is a trademark of Windows.

Overall, thanks for the great review of this "revolutionary" event Paul. The voice dialing is even possibly on my piece-of-junk Samsung, I mean, come on! Either way, I still think 7 is reasonable at a 50/100 dual price point, I mean, isn't that pretty much repeating the XP era pricing to an extent.

@robertsjoe,

I hope so. I don't want to have to use an inferior product like a small niche of people do.

Paul, can't you ever tell the truth? Here is the REALITY CHECK:

Apple did not claim that the OS X user base *magically* jumped from 25 million to 75 million active users in two years, as you put it.

He speaks plainly about where the numbers come from. This is the exact quote from the keynote:

" ... And this is what's happend: With iPhone, with iPod touch, we've tripled, tripled the number of active users of OS X across these products. We've tripled installed based customers to run all of your amazing applications. It's just astounding. No wonder everyone's trying to race behind us and follow in our footsteps. No wonder there's so much excitement around what's happening."

At no point does he try to obfuscate where the numbers come from. He states they come from the iPhone and the iPod touch. But he is making the point to developers that they now have triple the number of customers than they did just did two years ago BECAUSE of the new iPhone/iPod touch platform. That is true. And for those developers it IS exciting. And yes everyone wants their own app store. Microsoft should have done this years ago but they didn't, and yes everyone IS now following in the footsteps of Apple because of the APP store.

Seriously, Paul? You didn't understand what he was saying?  

@hamiltonstallings: "I hope so. I don't want to have to use an inferior product like a small niche of people do."

Or as in the case of Windows, a much inferior product used by the majority of uneducated and tasteless people.

@mikegalos - no, I wasn't upset by any of it...I had fun with it and I felt young again. You see, its you liberals that are homophobic...not me!

--tayme

Wow, panache, the fact that you seem to have a huge problem with mikegalos, but not with robertsjoe, seems to indicate that the problem is with you.

"Wow, panache, the fact that you seem to have a huge problem with mikegalos" honestly who does like Mike?  His 4th wife?

"The batteries are non-replaceable."  

I guess this one hit home with Paul.  I mean he is running Vista on Macbook.  Vista is HORRIBLE on battery life (compared to XP and Leopard) on a PC and that is from a vendor trying to tweak their drivers to make Vista look better.  I am going to go out on a limb and say the bootcamp Vista drivers dont have the same goal.

So yes Paul in your case I bet having a non-replaceable battery on the new Mac would be a bad thing for a non-OS X user.

"Umm if you dont have to do anything how does that suck?? The macrumors site refreshed its self, it was not something I had to do, it was not browser specific."

The point I'm making is that I don't want to have to have a page load over and over again, especially like Engadget with all its pictures... I want something that shows up in real time (aka Google Wave).

All the Apple users listened to the WWDC, then thought to themselves, "Off to the Win supersite to defend my loyal corporation".

Wooooooooooo!

No but really. I would like to have an iPhone if it wasn't for At&t's insane monthly fee. I just don't understand why data is 30 bucks a month - for any smartphone. Once upon a time when I was on Verizon, I felt that I used my BB quite a bit, yet when I went online to check my data usage it was very low. So low in fact that I could have gone without the data plan and saved money - BUT THEY WON'T LET YOU.

Why people!

"All the Apple users listened to the WWDC, then thought to themselves, "Off to the Win supersite to defend my loyal corporation".

Wooooooooooo!

No but really. I would like to have an iPhone if it wasn't for At&t's insane monthly fee. I just don't understand why data is 30 bucks a month - for any smartphone. Once upon a time when I was on Verizon, I felt that I used my BB quite a bit, yet when I went online to check my data usage it was very low. So low in fact that I could have gone without the data plan and saved money - BUT THEY WON'T LET YOU.

Why people!"

Although that may be bad, it doesn't COMPARE to the text message rates these companies charge! Text messages are limited to 160 characters typically so that they are able to piggy-back on cell signals and use  little to no footprint on bandwidth for the cell company, yet they still charge outrageous fees. I pay $30 a month for unlimited text on my family plan (which is 2 phones) for something they could do for FREE.

Also, have you ever seen the data prices for international? I don't understand why rates should change international data, you're still access data as if you were sitting at home. Its understandable to charge for international minutes, but not data. It's like the world's infastructure of a little thing called the web doesn't exist... This is what BACKBONES are for, jesus...

@shark47: "Wow, panache, the fact that you seem to have a huge problem with mikegalos, but not with robertsjoe, seems to indicate that the problem is with you."

I think that would actually indicate that the problem is with the @miguelgalos, not anyone else. The Borg's top drone is on quite a rampage these days. It

s quite obvious that he has gone back in to Microsoft for further brainwashing and re-programming.

"Although that may be bad, it doesn't COMPARE to the text message rates these companies charge! Text messages are limited to 160 characters typically so that they are able to piggy-back on cell signals and use  little to no footprint on bandwidth for the cell company, yet they still charge outrageous fees. I pay $30 a month for unlimited text on my family plan (which is 2 phones) for something they could do for FREE."

Yes I forgot about the crazy text rates also. Seriously how much does it cost to send a text? Also some AIM, ICQ etc on phones use text messages instead of data. That is a slap in the face right there.

"A truly pathetic poster, you are.  

"Maybe you can help pick out and eat some of the knits from MikeGalos's sexy beard!"

"You are probably the biggest douche on this board."

That confirms my suspicions. The problem indeed is with you. What's with all those personal attacks? And what's with your obsession with mike's beard? Geez.

"Yes I forgot about the crazy text rates also. Seriously how much does it cost to send a text? Also some AIM, ICQ etc on phones use text messages instead of data. That is a slap in the face right there."

This is fun:

www.techcrunch.com/.../atts-text-messages-cost-1310-per-megabyte

and this is where I read it originally: www.nytimes.com/.../28digi.html

So sad... I've always been a strong believer in "Pay what it costs". Doing web development over the years, in much of my free time I enjoy making little scripts or improving upon things under GNU that help me, that doesn't cost me anything, so why shouldn't I offer it up for free? This is a horrible practice in the cell phone realm, hopefully it'll end soon with cell towers planned to be completed by 2013 with 100 mbps rates...

@shark47: "And what's with your obsession with mike's beard?"

He obviously has a man crush. :)

To get back on topic though...

www.neowin.net/.../marshymellow-apples-hypocrisy-is-blinding

I don't see problems with the way Apple or Microsoft behaves with each other, but in the neowin post i found this point rather interesting: "No, I don't expect Apple to support "old" hardware forever. Except, it's really not that old. The first Intel Macs were released in January 2006. The last Power PC Macs were sold in August 2006. That wasn't even three years ago. The switch happened in between version 10.4 and 10.5 of Mac OS X and right around the same time Windows Vista was released."

I think it is EXCEPTIONAL on Microsoft's end that Windows 7 is so usable on older hardware, hell I've used it on 800mhz, if it was possible it could probably be used on some older smartphones even...

Don't bash me for the point on Microsoft's side, I have an iPhone and love it and really want a Mac to do some dev on, but you must admit, 7 has some incredible benefits over OSX.. and vice versa.

Paul, you're yawning over Safari 4? Yawning is what you'd be used to with the much slower IE. Safari is the fastest browser out there.

@robertsjoe: "Safari is the fastest browser out there"

Fastest to be dumped by users?

Fastest to need security patches?

Fastest to meet 'standards' that no actual user cares about?

Surely you'd realise by now (but probably not) that the performace of all the major browsers is pretty much even.  Who cares if there is a one second difference in rendering a page anyway (not that there would be that much between browsers).  Each will outperform the others in certain tests, that's what marketing does ... pick a test that makes their numbers look best and claim that they are the fastest.  All browser companies have done it.

A large percentage of Mac users replace Safari with Firefox, so pre v4 obviously wasn't that great.  It'll be interesting to see if that trend continues even with Safari 4.

"I think it is EXCEPTIONAL on Microsoft's end that Windows 7 is so usable on older hardware, hell I've used it on 800mhz, if it was possible it could probably be used on some older smartphones even..."

Crack ruins yet another life.  it's amazing what that drug will make people believe.  I have an old IPAC with Pocket PC on it.  You can have it for you next triiiiip.   Then you can come back here and tell us how great 7 was on it.

@truffoo0: The one with the leas security vulnerabilities. The one that is actually the fastest (plain and simple) in the world. All those seconds and milliseconds add up. Then again, when you're used to such inferior products like IE, you wouldn't know what fast is.

And most importantly, the standards which IE never cared for, totally trashed or ignored, until the rest of the world shouted at the bad ass job they'd done. The thing they now have to get right because people DO care about standards.

"Crack ruins yet another life.  it's amazing what that drug will make people believe.  I have an old IPAC with Pocket PC on it.  You can have it for you next triiiiip.   Then you can come back here and tell us how great 7 was on it."

Really? Exactly how well does OSX run on it?

let me know, thanks

@truffoo0: I spend at least 10 hours a day doing web development and test everything both locally and hosted on all major browsers and (even though it's young) Chrome has a significant speed advantage over all others.

@robertsjoe: IE is typically used as the base of comparison of speed and function for all browsers to show home many times better the other browser is so why would you compare Safari to it? How about doing a real comparison like Safari to FF or Chrome? or are you scared? IE is an afterthought in the browser world, so why are you trying to use it on the forefront of your argument?

To those on here launching personal attacks against me rather than saying where my posts are wrong, I'd quote Ben Bradlee when the Washington Post was being savaged for telling the truth during Watergate...

"They doubt our ancestry, but they don't say the story isn't accurate."

Seems like that's good company for me. You might want to consider that using Haldeman and Erlichman and Mitchell and Hunt and Colson and Nixon and Liddy and Agnew as role models might not be something to brag about.

@miguelgalos: Comparing yourself to the Washington Post and the Watergate reports? Wow, you're living in a dream world.

@miguelgalos: The problem with pointing out your posts which are lies, incorrect or FUD is that when someone does, you ignore them. You move on to delivering more FUD. So it makes it difficult and pointless trying to point them out.

@mikegalos - That made absolutely no sense. You seem pretty flustered today. I haven't seen anybody say that they consider those people their role models...there you go again, saying that somebody said something when it obviously didn't happen. Wasn't it you complaining about exactly that a while back?

--tayme

Microsoft to announce Windows "7" pricing as soon as next week

blogs.zdnet.com/microsoft

I guarantee that it will not be as nearly as competitive as Apple's desktop and server prices. Especially considering that both Snow Leopard and Windows 7 are just point upgrades.

Sorry I was away all day folks, had a day of driving around... I did catch some of Apple's WWDC....

"As Paul mentioned, calling out MS for the improvements to Windows from Vista to 7, and then announcing the exact same thing in OS X is hilarious"

It is, if you didn't get the message: Vista sucks, Windows 7 is more of the same. Leopard is beautiful, Snow Leopard is more of the same.

"Seriously. What was announced today that you think actually was technically significant."

Nothing. Apple sparsely announce anything technically significant, as "technically significant" sounds like an excuse to a product being unusable. Vista springs to mind.

"To those on here launching personal attacks against me rather than saying where my posts are wrong, I'd quote Ben Bradlee [...]"

What would you say to people who do point out where your posts are wrong, Mike? Nothing, as usual?

@Daveinla stated

"Granted Leopard introduced many new features, hence major update. Snow Leopard introduces few visible improvement for the user. hence the name Leopard still. Where the major work has been done is in the kernel here and for the developer."

Sorry pal, but this doesn't pass the smell test. It maybe new features to OS-X users, but similar functionality has been in Windows for awhile now. For them to finally implementing features that were in Windows shouldn't be considered a major upgrade. When MIcrosoft does this, they are criticized for "copying Apple." Yet when Apple copies MIcrosoft, nobody calls them out for it. Well, I am calling it like it is. SnowLeopard is essentially copying functionality that has been apart of Windows.

If anything, Apple should be criticized for being the "Johnny Come Very Late" to the party here. Microsoft has had a full working 100% 64 bit operating systems here for quite sometime now, going back to the XP era. Apple still hasn't got SnowLeopard 100% 64 bit. You're believeing this marketing hype when the facts do not suit the case.

As gorath pointed out, Direct X does very similarly what Open CL does and has been in Windows as far back as 1995. Apple's just implementing a similar feature almost 14 years later? Wow. Yet we are supposedly lead to believe that OS-X is superior, when its just doing things that Windows has been doing for a decade and half now? That's really not worth saying thats justification for a major upgrade.

As I pointed out Processor Power Management is code for taking advantage of multicore CPU's or threads. That feature was available in January 30, 2007 for Windows users. You guys won't see it until September 2009. Thats 2 years and 8 months later that Apple finally gets this done. And thats supposedly "new and revolutionary?" No. Its a copied feature. Nothing more, nothing less. Even Linux variants have code for similar features going back quite sometime.

So you can believe the marketing or the cold hard facts. In my opinion, SnowLeopard is a cheap upgrade that people should get, but it doesn't make a compelling case against Windows 7. Thats why the audience groaned at the cheapshots against Windows 7 because they were't justified.

Great so SnowLeopard does not support PowerPC processors. That is just great not wonder they said that it saves disk space it no longer supports powerpc processor nor does it support 32bit. So now i can't fix computers with problems that are running leopard I guess I will just roll them back to 10.4 tiger. This really sucks...

OK so they are making fun of Microsoft for "fixing vista" when Windows 7 runs better than vista on the same old hardware. Snow leopard their fix does not work on half of computers that were sold when leopard was first out. Let me guess many applications will break just like they did from 10.4 to 10.5. Also on the next version 10.7 will only work on 2009 hardware and on and will also brake half of 10.6 apps.

So once again why are people so eager to trow money at this company?

->DarkSages

If you require OS X for some reason, say, iLife, you need to buy a Mac, or they can try Hackintosh if they're feeling lucky. Same idea with the iPhone. If you get it, you can only use it with iTunes, and if you want apps, there's only one option: Apple.

All of those make it harder to switch away, therefore, they can either lose what they have, attempt to find a workaround, or live with it. #1 is undesirable and #2 may not be possible.

I personally thought Harry McCracken from Technologizer did an excellent live blog during the keynote. That in combination with pictures from gdgt.com and macrumors.com was even better. Later I noticed Leo was streaming live with video from the keynote and Alex Lindsay, Geoff Smith and iJustine commenting. Apparently Andy Ihnatko was there too...

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Reality Checking Paul's Reality Check

"75 million Mac OS X users"

Phil Schiller never made this claim. He said specifically that there are 75 million OS X uses and that included Mac OS X as well as the iPhone and iPod touch. There was no attempt to pass that off as Mac growth.

"Hypocrisy around Vista/7 and Leopard/Snow Leopard. "

Paul takes quotes out of contexts and gets outraged. If you want to know what was actually said I suggest actually watching the video.

"QuickTime X for OS X, Windows"

Has this gem " I especially like how the UI looks like no other OS X app". This is an excellent point if you ignore the DVD player in Mac OS X. You know, the app that has similar functionality as the quicktime player and now has a similar UI.

"Mac OS X is not fully 64-bit."

And Apple didn't claim that it was.

"iPhone 3G S ... Surely there's an upgrade program for existing users. "

Paul who likes to deride people for not doing just a little research when making claims doesn't seem to feel the need to follow his own standard because an upgrade program was announced by AT&T.

At one point this blog used to be kind of interesting. The Apple coverage was crummy but the windows stuff was good. But now the Apple coverage is just B.S and the Windows coverage is largely regurgitating M.S PR. The only thing Paul really seems to add are his hissy fits. I would fault him for that but reading through the comments he clearly knows his audience and given them the website they want. I guess it is good that all twenty of you who feel Mac Vs. PC is still relevant have a place to call home with your MC to keep the conversation going.

@subzero are you high?

www.microsoft.com/.../ProcPowerMgmt.mspx

vs

www.apple.com/.../technology

This is your brain, this is your brain on drugs.

"75 million Mac OS X users"

Phil Schiller never made this claim. He said specifically that there are 75 million OS X uses and that included Mac OS X as well as the iPhone and iPod touch. There was no attempt to pass that off as Mac growth."

Paul did not watch the video before he made his comment.  Phil CLEARLY SAID, something to the fact "not BECAUSE OF iTouch and iPod we NOW HAVE 75million users of OS X".

Hack job journalism.  

From mherm88's link:

www.neowin.net/.../marshymellow-apples-hypocrisy-is-blinding

"But, it wasn't enough to take a swipe at Vista. Serlet decided to key us all into what is perhaps Apple's new spin on Windows 7... that it has "even more complexity" than Vista. Why? Because it's based on the "same old tech as Vista." Basically, they've gone out of their way (and I think will continue to do so), to try and label Windows 7 as "Windows Vista 2.0""

Rabid Apple fans have been doing this for quite a while now. Now, Apple has joined the bandwagon too. After all, Apple has to pander to its fanatical fan base.

"Vista sucks, Windows 7 is more of the same. Leopard is beautiful, Snow Leopard is more of the same."

...And with Steve Jobs calling himself an artist, all the pieces fall into place.

WOAH!

Subzero...the DirectX of 1995, which wasnt yet called DirectX (I don't think), is NOT AT ALL what Waethorn said.  DirectX back then was NOT capable of GPGPU, which is what OpenCL and DirectX 11 Compute (or whatever Waethorn pointed out) makes accessible, so that statement is in error.

@Shark...the reason you are a douche is because of statements like...when I mentioned I have railed against RJ many times, you say, "Anything that makes you feel better"...but if you had actually paid ATTENTION to posts I've made, or went back to re-read some, it's all right there...*THAT* is what makes you a douche...

Regarding MikeGalos's beard....what?  You don't think it's sexy?!

Regarding MikeGalos's claim that people should point out where he is wrong and lies...it happens all the time, but then he just ignores it, or spins it in such a way that he convinces himself he was right all along

@Shark,

Again, you prove your douche-iness...

"Rabid Apple fans have been doing this for quite a while now. Now, Apple has joined the bandwagon too. After all, Apple has to pander to its fanatical fan base"

Meanwhile, ON THIS VERY BOARD, your God Paul Thurott has said the following

"Here's what we do know. Windows 7 can and should be considered Vista Release 2 (R2). In fact, I think Microsoft should market the business versions of the OS under that very name."

Meanwhile, who here besides RJ has said things like "Vista sucks, Windows 7 is more of the same. Leopard is beautiful, Snow Leopard is more of the same.", which is what you claim the "fanatical fan base" says?

And it's THIS VERY HYPOCRISY that frustrates me to the point of calling people "douches"

Lindy, he might be high, but he's just confused, and got the wrong name for the windows equivalent.

Processor power management is used to lower the processor clock speed when it is not in use, etc.

What he is referring to (I guess) is windows' thread scheduler/mnager - which as far as I know, has no fancy name.

I mean, most other OSs don't have a fancy name for it, it's just something that's built into Kernels by default.

I must say though, that although there has been thread management in windows since time began (not literally of course), the advancements that came with the scheduler in NT6 - vista and server 2008 - made a hell of a difference.

Before that, I believe every thread was assigned equal priority unless it specifically requested otherwise.

In vista and later, threads are assigned to processors dynamically depending on the workload, or somesuch.

Whatever, the inner workings of it themselves are far to complicated, and way over my head, but the difference in responsiveness from XP to vista was night and day.

So, I was mistaken, in that I hadn't realised that "grand central" had changed it's name / split up or whatever, but what I said still holds true. What "Grand central" does NOW, has also been in windows for a very long time, although it really came of age with vista.

Subzero just seems confused about the name - probably because it has no fancy name - but I could be wrong.

There's been a bit of controversy in Linux for some time regarding it's thread scheduler. Some were arguing that server benchmark results showed great performance in the scheduler, whereas others were maintaining that server benchmarks meant nothing for the desktop user, and that the scheduler should be overhauled to allow much higher immediate responsiveness.

MikeGalos,

Regarding your ridiculous assertion that threads were created by MS and IBM in 1987....Maybe the two of the collaborated to incorporate threads into their new OS they were going to work on together...but read this..

"[93-04-21-13-32.11] [92-01-27-17-05.54] The notion of a thread, as a

sequential flow of control, dates back to 1965, at least, with the

Berkeley Timesharing System.  Only they weren't called threads at that

time, but processes [Dijkstra, 65].  Processes interacted through

shared variables, semaphores, and similar means.  Max Smith did a

prototype threads implementation on Multics around 1970; it used

multiple stacks in a single heavyweight process to support background

compilations.

Perhaps the most important progenitor of threads is the programming

language PL/I, from about the 1965 time frame.  The language as

defined by IBM provided a `CALL XXX (A, B) TASK;' construct, which

forked a thread for XXX.  It is not clear whether any IBM compiler

ever implemented this feature, but it was examined closely while

Multics was being designed; it was decided that the TASK call as

defined didn't map onto processes, since there was no protection

between the threads of control.  So Multics took a different

direction, and the TASK feature was removed from PL/I by IBM in any

case, along with the ABNORMAL attribute and lots of other weird stuff.

Then came Unix, in the early 1970s.  The Unix notion of a `process'

became a sequential thread of control *plus* a virtual address space

(incidentally, the Unix notion of a process derived directly from the

Multics process design [Saltzer, 66]).  So `processes', in the Unix

sense, are quite heavyweight machines.  Since they cannot share memory

(each has its own address space), they interact through pipes,

signals, etc).  Shared memory (also a rather ponderous mechanism) was

added much later.

After some time, Unix users started to miss the old processes that

could share memory.  This led to the `invention' of threads: old-style

processes that shared the address space of a single Unix process.

They also were called `lightweight', by way of contrast with

`heavyweight' Unix processes.  This distinction dates back to the very

late 70s or early 80s, i.e. to the first `microkernels' (Thoth

(precursor of the V-kernel and QNX), Amoeba, Chorus, the

RIG-Accent-Mach family, etc).

On a side note, threads have been in continuous use in

telecommunications applications for quite a long time.

See also:

[Cheriton, 79]

 Cheriton, D. R., `Multi-process structuring and the Thoth operating

   system', Ph.D. Thesis, University of Waterloo, 1979.

[Daley & Dennis, 68]

 Daley, R. C., Dennis, J. B., `Virtual memory, processes, and

   sharing in Multics', Comm, ACM 11, 306-312, May 1968.

[Dennis & van Horn, 66]

 Dennis, J. B., van Horn, E. C., `Programming semantics for

   multiprogrammed computations', MAC-TR-21, 1966.

[Dijkstra, 65]

 Dijkstra, E. W., `Cooperating sequential processes', in `Programming

   Languages', Genuys, F. (ed.), Academic Press, 1965.

[Saltzer, 66]

 Saltzer, J. H., `Traffic control in a multiplexed computer system',

   MAC-TR-30 (Sc.D. Thesis), July, 1966.

"

NOWHERE does it say anything about MS...and look at the dates!  Please...give me a break...I'll find more info to debunk your nonsense.

Now show me where MS and IBM created "lightweight" processes and called them threads?  You mentioned the name of a book..how about excerpting from it?

Give me a BREAK!  MS did NOT invent the concept of threads.

Panache, DirectX 1 was released in 1995 sometime, possibly with windows 95, although it's so long ago I can honestly not remember.

However, you ARE right, back then, it couldn't do anything at all resembling GPGPU.

However, around the time of DirectX7 IIRC, hardware transform and lighting was added to the spec.

hardware transform meant that the actual GPU had to (in order to be DirectX 7 compliant) be able to handle the calculations for 3d mesh deformations, among other things, in order to reduce the workload of the main CPU.

(I might be wrong about which specific version of DX this came in with)

Now, this STILL isn't really GPGPU, although it could well be seen as the first tentative steps towards GPUs which could do broader things than just very fast image processing.

Of course, the first DirectX version to truly support GPGPU is DX11 - which ships with windows 7 - but similar features began appearing in DX10.

""...but if you had actually paid ATTENTION to posts I've made, or went back to re-read some, it's all right there...*THAT* is what makes you a douche..."

And if you had actually read my past statements, you would have seen that I have criticized Microsoft and praised Apple's products like the iPod Touch on several occasions. Considering how busy you are obsessing over mikegalos, I won't hold that against you.

@Shark,

I don't care what you call other people...but I don't see you calling MikeGalos a Windows fanatic!  It's *YOUR* Hypocrisy, not mine.  I have not once been hypocritical about ANYTHING!

And to make this clear..I never said you don't say things against Apple products.

Not to mention, and maybe you disagree...but I find it much much easier to ignore RJ's posts than MG's...RJ's posts are usually nonsensical drivel constantly repeated...MG's posts are condescending rude outright lies and hypocrisy spoken as fact.

Much much easier to ignore an RJ post than MG post.

Name calling occurs out of frustration.  On topics other than your and MG's hypocrisy, I'm also quite reasonable....obviously you haven't noticed but when MG isn't being a 100% biased liar, he seems like an OK guy.....MOSTLY.

"I wonder what my fart would play?"

Something that stinks.

"For them to finally implementing [sic] features that were in Windows shouldn't be considered a major upgrade."

If the reverse were true, Windows 95 would never have been called a "major upgrade". Or, for that matter, most successive versions of Windows.

"I don't care what you call other people...but I don't see you calling MikeGalos a Windows fanatic!  It's *YOUR* Hypocrisy, not mine.  I have not once been hypocritical about ANYTHING!"

Likewise, I don't see you calling lindy out when he goes into his anti-MS phase. Mikegalos is being used as an excuse to troll here. Even before he says something, there's a hundred people ready to pounce on him. I don't always agree with his views on MS, Yahoo, or the Democratic party, but even his most harmless statement is taken out of context and used as an excuse here.

I am a hypocrite. Fair enough. But then, so is everybody else here. tayme gets bashed equally by both sides and doc seems reasonable. Apart from that, everyone has a bias. Some are more biased than the others, but that's expected.

@gorath, sub is just clueless.   He needs to stick to the sky is falling in the OS X security world.  At least there he gets it right 20% of the time.

To get down the grit of  it all Open CLI and DX11 are first time that a programer can use the GPU to do things the CPU can when writing applications.

Example would be something you do toda in Photoshop CS4 that rails all the CPU cores in Windows or OS X.  If Adobe wrote a patch or a whole never version then in OS X that new version would use all of the CPU cores and the GPU cores to do the same thing via Open CLI, and DX 11 in Windows.

I wonder, will MS give Vista users a deal now in light of the $29 upgrade price of SL?  $49 for a family pack?

If so that would be a "Big Announcment".  Even if they do it now it would look like they are doing because of what Apple did.

@Shark

Well said!

I do like the Doc...I actually like Tayme too, but not when he goes on his "It's entertaining" rants..  LOL!

You know....regarding Lindy...Im not always a fan....doesn't really bother me though...something less abrasive about they way he/she posts....

Or maybe I just can't stand that horrible picture of MikeGalos...maybe that's what drives me so crazy!

HAHAHAHA  :)

Lindy, you're not quite 100% correct there, on you rcomment about photoshop.

CS4 on windows at least, does already leverage the (Nvidia) GPU for certain processes, I believe they do this via CUDA.

Although, yes you are correct, DX11 and OpenCL are the first such interfaces built into their relative OS. I don't disagree at all about that.

I was just pointing out that it's been a long time coming, and some first tentative steps were made towards this several years ago.

Of possible interest on the subject is Universal Audio's DSP cards for professional audio processing. Whilst these cards could only actually run UA's own signal processing software, they are in fact, run entirely on what is basically a repurposed graphics card.

As for the OSX upgrade pricing, Apple have done their users proud on that one, and I can only hope that Microsoft offers a similar price for 7 upgraders (although I doubt that they will).

@Panache.

No, you're Wrong.

MikeGalos is not as you said a "Windows Fanatic"

He is simply a microsoft Fanatic ;)

@Gorath,

You're right.  I should have said MS fanatic, not Windows Fanatic...but he is a Windows fanatic too!  LOL!

Wow, this thread could set a record, either for length or name calling. Well, probably not, but perhaps close.

However, you've gotten off point, and that point is the drivel that Paul calls "commentary". For example, he calls out Apple for supposede hypocrisy

"Hypocrisy around Vista/7 and Leopard/Snow Leopard."

and then gives us this gem,

"For the record, Snow Leopard looks just fine to me. It should, after three years of development on a point release."

In his own words,

"In both cases, Windows 7, and XP, the system was essentially a highly tweaked version of its predecessor. And in both cases, the underlying core of the OS (the kernel plus support code) is largely unchanged from that of its predecessor. So from a technical standpoint, Windows 7 is a minor upgrade."

"Windows 7 is a minor upgrade."

Furthermore, it didn't take 3 years, it took 8, or 9 or 10, depending on how you count, to get from the previous clearly distinct Microsoft OS, XP, to a usable version of Longhorn/Vista/Windows 7. Oh wait, it isn't even released yet, and won't be until after Snow Leopard ships.

Which of the two will be "better"? That's entirely a matter of opinion. I find the RC of Windows 7 "okay", and clearly much improved over XP, but again, after most of a decade, I would sure hope for that!

I don't know why Paul is so rabid and hypocritical on the subject of Apple, and I've previously noted the bizarre congnitive dissonance. He notes the Mac "usage share" of 3.5%---as if Apple is irrelevant----and is then just frothing at the mouth over what was said by this "irrelevant" company. Methinks he doth protest too much. And he doesn't even seem to know it....

Paul, you look upset, dosen't serve tour cause to write when you're mad...

Paul is a bad source for Apple Information.  He writes to the Windows faithful, and his tone is intentionally spiteful to keep the Fan-Boys happy.  It's an old Jedi mind-trick!  "This isn't the OS you are looking for.  Move along."  It only works on the weak-minded.

panache

Threads <> Processes

Even your cite says that.

Sorry. You're just flat out wrong on this.

Lindy

Here's a deal for you. Compare the following:

Leopard-> Snow Leopard - $29

Vista SP1 -> Vista SP2 - $0

Unlike Apple, Microsoft doesn't charge for Service Packs that don't add features.

obviously you didn't read it mikegalos.

Anyone with any computer background knows that threads and processes are not the same thing.

You still haven't shown me ANYTHING that says Microsoft helped invent (you use the word "create") threads.

You are the one that is wrong.

MikeGalos,

Here's a comparison for you

Mac OS X 10.5 -> Mac OS X 10.6 - $29

Windows NT 6.0 -> Windows NT 6.1 - ???  how much?

Until MS says $29 or less,  it's time to take your beard and shut up.

panache

Actually, I gave you a cite with Gordon Letwin's book (He was the architect for OS|2 and one of the earliest Microsoft employees). You could also look at the OS|2 SDK documentation from the time which goes into long explanation of what these new "threads" are.

The problem is that anyone who learned about computers recently doesn't understand that threads are relatively new. You're apparently in that group.

I (having been at IBM and Microsoft during the relevant time) am not.

panache

When you find a product named Windows NT 6.0 or Windows NT 6.1, let us know.

Otherwise spreading ignorance is really not a rare skill here so you won't be missed.

MikeGalos,

You NEVER gave me a site, you said, "look up..."

I guess MS also invented Mutexes as well?  Semaphores?  Critical Sections?  And your whole POINT of that nonsense was that MS had a mutli-processor thread scheduler that wasn't "broken"...as if a UNIX based OS has a broken thread scheduler...please!

Are you now saying there is no such thing as Windows NT 6.0?  Windows NT 6.1?

Oh right, it goes by the public name "Vista" and "Windows 7"...

Are you now denying that Windows Vista is NT 6.0?

Are you denying that Windows 7 is NT 6.1?

Again, this is a perfect case where your hypocrisy is evident, but you spin a small issue to deny your own hypocrisy.

You are so see through.

I hate to repeat myself but

At least Microsoft Windows 7 supports the same hardware as Vista and in some cases xp. Thats alot of hardware.

Apple 10.6 does not support half of the computers that were sold when 10.5 was released. Huh how many computer types? let's say 20 and that high becuase most of them have the same hardware.

"I guess MS also invented Mutexes as well?  Semaphores?  Critical Sections?"

Nope. Those already existed for processes. That's why I didn't make those claims.

"And your whole POINT of that nonsense was that MS had a mutli-processor thread scheduler that wasn't "broken"...as if a UNIX based OS has a broken thread scheduler...please!"

Well, seeing how the Unix process scheduler predates threads, yeah. On the other hand, most Unixoid implementations have a thread scheduler added in or have replaced the process scheduler with one that supports threads.

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