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from www.winsupersite.com/.../pricing.asp

"Note that these "E" versions do not apply to the UK."

What does that mean, Paul?  Does it mean the UK won't see any of that nonsense "E" versions and will get the proper versions that the US are getting (complete with IE)?

So, we have:

The consumer version (Windows 7 Home Premium) is cheaper than it was for Windows Vista

The business version (Windows 7 Professional) is the same price as it was for Windows Vista

Ultimate is only $20 more than the business version.

Let the whining of "It's so unfair that I should have to pay more than I want for a commercial product" begin...

Wow,  what a missed opportunity.  It sure would have been nice to see some sort of household licensing ala the some of the virus makers products.

As far as pricing goes, I guess it is good they didn't raise prices but jeez, why not move the pricing down on consumer versions?  It could have been a coup.  I guess they are hoping that disgruntled users of vista will pre-order 7 and everyone else will get it with a new PC purchase...

I am going to check the retail pricing for OSX as I wonder what that costs....

How could the UK be excluded from the E editions? We are part of the EU - you do know that, Paul, right?

(The lack of Euro and Schengen-area are just to confuse you guys!)

What is unfair, is that in the UK, we usually pay the same price as Americans, except in £.

so... Home premium full = $199 in US, or £199 in the UK.

Have they never heard of exchange rates?

@Mikegalos - You realise the tremendous profit margin on these things don't you?

And the competition has been priced EXTREMELY competitively. I'm not talking about Linux.

Do you think the price disparity will show up in an Apple ad? I'm pretty sure Justin Long & John Hodgman are currently practicing their lines.

I think if they priced it more competitively, it would be better for Microsoft, better for the rest of us and bad for Apple.

And in comparison to their OEM pricing, it's a ridiculous amount to charge. Why should it cost so much more if I go into a store and buy it than it does if I buy a new computer?

@Mikegalos - oh come on, I know you defend Microsoft to a ridculous degree on this blog but surely you can't say in complete honesty that those upgrade prices are realistic, especially for those of us poor sods that actually went out and bought Vista at retail?

Fact is, Vista has still, even today, got some fairly serious issues. My own machine is refusing to run Windows Update and still suffers from horrible file transfer speeds (5 hours to transfer over about 10gig of data is ridiculous). Windows 7, by contrast, seems to be a pretty good OS and a big step in the right direction but $120 (which will probably end up close to £120 when it comes over here) to basically fix Vista is far too much.

From my perspective as an end user, Windows 7 and Snow Leopard have a lot in common - they're both more about overhauling the underlying code base than introducing a slew of new features, they both give performance increases and both offer a few nice new UI features. Sadly Microsoft have gotten greedy, especially as they've shown they could knock out upgrades for a decent price with this 'limited' offer. At the end of the day it's moves like this that result in such a large number of pirated windows installs. Me, I'll either go back to XP (I now have a licence free which I didn't when I bought Vista) or see what educational discount I get through my employer (I love working for a uni, I really do).

benjwah

Let's see. The pricing on Windows has either stayed the same or has dropped. Yeah. That's sooooo unfair.

So the biggest problem here is that it will cost the same to upgrade from XP to Win 7 as Vista to Win7.  

Considering the cost of Snow Leopard, MS now looks like a bunch of asses.

OT but I have seen it mentioned here before and I KNOW you guys can clarify this for me.  I currently have Vista Home Premium 32 bit OEM License (came with the laptop).  I want to move to Windows 7 Home Premium 64 bit.  Can I purchase the Windows 7 Home Premium 64 bit and upgrade from 32 bit?

Currently I actually have the Win 7 RC installed...which means I will have to install HP's bloatware Vista, update to SP2 then do the upgrade.  In 18 years of using Windows, i have never done an upgrade.  Should I uninstall all of the extras that HP installs before the upgrade or will the upgrade remove that crap?

Thanks in advance for reading this!

Landon

smiddlehurst

So what you're saying is that if you ignore the hundreds of new and improved features that Paul documents both on WinSuperSite www.winsupersite.com/win7 and in his book, then Windows 7 is the same as a bug fix with virtually no new consumer features.

That's a bit like saying "If you ignore that whole bit about flying an Airbus and a bus are pretty much the same"

(Is this really the state of logic in the university systems?)

"And the competition has been priced EXTREMELY competitively. I'm not talking about Linux."

Oh you must mean the 20$ OSX that cant be installed on my PC? But if I go out and pay 8 times as much as I payed for my computer, then I can pay 20$ for an OS upgrade.

I lose money in order to save money on an OS? Cool...

125.00 for an upgrade is not a lot of money seeing that most people in the 21st century do not go out and buy an OS from the store and are likely to get it new with their new PC anyway. If you have Vista, it's a darn good price. It's the same price Apple sold OSX for until they pulled the $20 "new OS" service pack stunt where we are now supposed to expect MS to sell their OS for the same price.

And if you wanted to stay with an almost 10 year old OS because you either kept an old computer that couldn't run Vista, or just fell for the BS FUD about it, then I suggest you save your pennies. MS has been more than generous with keeping XP alive to accommodate people, but they cant keep stringing XP along forever.

smiddlehurst,

If you work for a U. why not just simply purchase via the U and get your U discount.

Pretty easy to me.

Hey my Dad works for GM. But he refuses to use his GM Employee discount when he purchases a new vehicle and then complains about the cost of retail.

LandonAB, going from 32-bit to 64-bit means you'll have to do a clean install.  But I think you'll still be able to buy an "upgrade" edition disc.  You'll just be restricted to wiping Windows before it'll install.

"So the biggest problem here is that it will cost the same to upgrade from XP to Win 7 as Vista to Win7.  

Considering the cost of Snow Leopard, MS now looks like a bunch of asses."

Uh, because Snow Leopard is just a minor upgrade to a point release of OS 10. Why do you think they named it "SNOW LEOPARD" and not Mountain Lion? They explained it themselves. Yet Microsoft are "asses" for not selling their OS for nothing?

And Snow Leopard  it still more expensive than what Microsoft charges for their actual service packs which is ZERO.

Paul, there's a typo in there or they decided to go back in time...

"...Microsoft also announced that it would allow consumers who purchase a Windows Vista-based PC between June 26, 2009 and January 31, 2009 to receive a free copy of Windows 7...."

Still, this is kind of a disappointment, though I suppose that means I better preorder rather soon

I've never got the complaints about pricing of Windows or Office. I mean, its a lot, but they offer upgrade pricing, and with that the price is usually competitive with the other home OS or Office suites out there. OSX doesn't even need to offer a full version because you can't buy it unless you've already purchased the full version anyway.

Any word on the anytime upgrade prices Paul?

Is anyone actually surprised by this pricing structure? Really?  I mean, it's in line with what they've always charged (slightly less in some cases), and I doubt they'd sell that many more at retail if they dropped the price.  They'd be leaving money on the table.

Seems to me that the people most likely to buy a retail upgrade or full OS are the same people most  likely to take advantage of the early discount  window.

Thanks for the info Paul, and no thanks Microsoft.

Can I upgrade from Window XP professional for $49?

hmm.... what about us poor Vista Ultimate victims?.....

>>I went back to my office and tried to write this article on a PC on which I'm running the beta version of Windows 7, the brand-new version of Microsoft's operating system. I'd written a paragraph when the PC crashed, for no reason. I started up again, rewrote the paragraph, and then the PC froze—again for no reason. At that point I gave up and just wrote the story on my Apple MacBook Pro, a pricey but rock-solid little notebook that runs on an operating system I can't remember ever crashing. I have no idea what makes one operating system work better than another, except that I know you need to have someone in charge who keeps telling the engineers that it's not good enough—go back and do better. And that, my friends, is why Apple, and all of us, need Steve Jobs.<<

www.newsweek.com/.../2

- Vista seems to run fine on over 300 systems on my network.  I'm happy with the way Vista turned out and I'm more happy with the way 7 is turing out.

- It would be great to have cheap Windows 7 upgrade prices, but I do think that Microsoft is being fare.  They are a business and need to make money.  Supply and Demand probably justifies their pricing strategy.

- Microsoft does not owe anyone for upgrading to Vista.  Anyone who sees Windows 7 pricing this way is working of falacious business principles.

- Apple was smart to price Snow Leopard at $29 per upgrade, but the Apple price should not be expected to influence Windows 7 pricing.  

My two cents (though, I'm sure it's worth less than two cents!)

@Delmont - that's what I'll be doing but that doesn't help the regular consumer does it?

@Mikegalos - I knew you'd have a pop, well done! I am saying that for ME, as a regular home user, Windows 7 is going to offer me very little in the way of functionality that I really need. There's business uses for it (and we're evaluating it at this moment) but as a home user the real benefit is that it actually works properly where Vista didn't (in my experience). Those 'hundred of new features' only apply IF YOU USE THEM! It's the old argument over Office offering so much more power than, say, Works, but really, how many users really NEED all those features? If you go under the hood Snow Leopard also offers 'hundreds of changes' but for me as a user the main benefit is increased speed of use. Heck, even Paul in his FAQ says that Microsoft's internal language suggests this isn't really a major release. About the only features that I'm looking forward to that aren't speed / reliability focused are the GUI tweaks to something that works (unlike Vista's tweaks that looked pretty but didn't really help day to day) and the new media centre.

To put it simply, in this day and age the OS as a product is pretty clearly defined. We know what functionality it has to provide and, more or less, Microsoft got it right with XP. Sure there are rough edges to tweak (wireless networking for instance) but the basic GUI has progressed to the point where most end users are fine with it.  All an OS update really needs to deliver is improvements to the speed, stability and security while tweaking areas that don't work as well as they should. For me, both Windows 7 and Snow Leopard accomplish this very well but Windows 7 is VASTLY overpriced considering what the average user will get out of it.

Oh, and us Europeans have just gotten another kick in the private area as we're not even getting upgrade editions... Microsoft claiming that they can't do one because of the need to unbundle IE8. Total and complete cobblers! Even if that's 100% true the only difference between upgrade and full is upgrade needs to, well, upgrade an existing install. You could have sold us 'upgrade' discs at upgrade prices even if they have to have a big 'you need to do a clean install because of the evil EU' stickers on the front. XP it is then, at least until I get round to replacing this computer in a year or two.

Will you have to have a previous release of Windows installed in order to do a clean install using the upgrade version, or will you be able to stick in your Vista DVD as validation? Also, what prior products qualify, just XP or VIsta?

Ocean

Which is why Fake Steve Jobs (or Real Dan Lyons) shouldn't be using beta software since he's apparently not quite aware of what "beta" means.

It's really pretty emabarassing that somebody supposedly tech-aware thinks that a beta being less reliable than a released product is newsworthy.

(Oh, and quoting an entire "article" is probably not fair use)

Anyone have info on whether it's possible to "downgrade" via the preorder, e.g. I have Vista Business , but only need Home Premium. Can I just get the home premium upgrade?

smiddlehurst, you are cutting off your nose to spite your face.  Why complain about things that don't matter one iota?  In the EU we'll still getting Windows, in fact for a short time we'll be getting the FULL version at upgrade prices.  So your complaint is just that, a complaint and not even a justified one.

You talk about the features being OK only if you use them.  That's why Microsoft provides cheaper versions with less features.  Simply pick the Starter Edition or Home Premium and there you go.

Some people really like to rant and rant and go on about minor things and you're one of them.

smiddlehurst

You Europeans are getting Full Product at the Upgrade price according to what Paul wrote so, at least this time, you're hardly getting kicked anywhere.

mikegno, I can't be certain but I'd bet that you'd be able to get an "upgrade" disc as you're going from Vista to 7, however, you'll have to do a clean install as you're going down editions.

Please someone correct me if you know this to be wrong.

smiddlehurst

You say the pricing doesn't apply to you (in your reply to Delmont) but you're speaking on behalf of other people and then you're complaining (in your reply to me in the very same post) that this is about how you, personally, have no use for any of the hundreds of new and improved features.

So, which is it?

"I went back to my office and tried to write this article on a PC on which I'm running the beta version of Windows 7, the brand-new version of Microsoft's operating system. I'd written a paragraph when the PC crashed, for no reason. I started up again, rewrote the paragraph, and then the PC froze—again for no reason"

So a guy that is supposed to be writing about tech, used a beta OS, and says " the PC crashed, for no reason"? And we are supposed to take what hew says after that with any credibility?

Let me guess, you posted this to somehow run a line of BS that Windows7 is a terrible OS and that we need to go scamper over to the Mac Store and buy ourselves a Steve-puter, right?

Everyone knows Apple's flunkies in the press are going to try to run their FUD engines on Win7. Their not bright people to begin with, and they never miss a chance to remind us in their writings.

Oh, and didnt you get booted for spamming with Off-topic stuff just recently?

So, use the pre-order offer if the "regular" upgrade price seems too high. Somewhere among Amazon, BestBuy, Microsoft, and 'other' is likely some entity from whom you are willing to order.

And yes...the price structure seems high, but Microsoft has to pay their portion (half?) of the cost of the new bridge over State Route 520 somehow.

The Apple Snow Leopard upgrade pricing announcement *can't* have influenced Microsoft, since Microsoft's pricing was set in recycled plastic (stone is so old fashioned) well before early June.

>>(Oh, and quoting an entire "article" is probably not fair use)<<

That was page 2.

For what its worth, Windows 7 has never crashed on me.  XP doesn't even crash much.  It just slows down and needs a reboot weekly or every 10 days.

Ocean, your quote is pure FUD too.  Not sure if you're posting it to disparage Windows or to support your view that some people are stupid but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume the latter.  That person who you linked to in your post is an idiot, especially as he seems to think that running a beta version of anything should be stable.  Shows that he is clearly not a tech guy by any measurement and cannot speak for informed, intelligent users.

The E editions don't apply to the UK? This is the complete opposite of what I'm hearing everywhere else. The BBC just blogged on the Upgrade pricing for the Full Version.

Vista Ultimate users really got screwed, ugh. Paying $300 for it OEM, then getting the privilige of paying another $219 to upgrade to 7 Ultimate. Over $500 for 2 generations of Windows OS's what the crap!?

Thank God I'm a Uni student or else I'd be obtaining this through more illicit means...

Looks like I'll have to get Windows 7 before July 11. $50 is a pretty good deal for me. Only thing is, I'm not sure if I can upgrade from Windows Vista Ultimate to Windows 7 Home Premium.

Ocean

You're right about it being page 2 and thus probably fair use.

btw: Page 1 is even funnier where Lyons talks about how he'll buy anything Apple makes even if he has no possible use for it.

>>That person who you linked to in your post is an idiot, especially as he seems to think that running a beta version of anything should be stable.<<

1, this is a RC, not a Beta.

2. Paul said:

>>the Windows 7 RC is a shining star of performance, usability, stability, and maturity. <<

and

>>Windows 7, in release candidate guise, is already a towering achievement that casts Windows Vista immediately in its shadow.<

AND

>>The Windows 7 RC could literally ship as the final version of the product. <<

and

>>in treating Windows 7 as final code, I've found that it has risen to the challenge by responding like final code. It is now, in pre-release form, in roughly the same shape as is Windows Vista with SP2.<<

www.winsupersite.com/.../win7_rc.asp

www.winsupersite.com/.../win7_rc_04.asp

Shark47, no, you'll have to do a clean install.

Whether you can still by upgrade media to do this or have to get the full version, I'm not sure.

>>Page 1 is even funnier where Lyons talks about how he'll buy anything Apple makes even if he has no possible use for it.<<

Agreed.  He is the guy that deserves all the scorn that Paul regularly heaps on Pogue.

i agree with Gorath, here in the UK we get screwed. there is no exchange rate as far as MS UK are concerned, what the price is in the states will be the same here.

@realtestman

Thanks for the response!  If that's the case, that works for me.  I will have to dig into it more.

resplendant, if users want Ultimate, they'll have to pony up.  No one is forcing them to get it and most people will not need it either.  A bit like any car: if you want the top-of-the-range one, then you're going to have to pony up like everyone else and stop complaining.

And as you're a student, I'd say you really wouldn't need it either, just like students don't need a top-of-the-range car.

Cool LandonAB.  Either way, it's a clean install as you'll be going from 32-bit to 64-bit, which doesn't allow for an in-place upgrade scenario.  The only thing you need to worry about is whether you can get an "upgrade" or a "full" version disc, which I'm sure someone will confirm 100% later.

Apple needs Jobs because pre-release software from Microsoft crashes? Nice.

Ocean, your quote said "beta".  You can't assume he means the RC version, as for all we know he really is running the beta version, as he specifically said.  If he meant RC, then he's an even more terrible inaccurate writer.

>>I went back to my office and tried to write this article on a PC on which I'm running the beta version of Windows 7, the brand-new version of Microsoft's operating system...<snip><<

Ocean

1) No. Lyons says he was running the beta.

2) So if the RC is relatively stable for beta code it should be treated as though it was released product? That's just bizarre.

shark

Maybe he meant that without Jobs yelling at them and firing people at random Apple's released, commercial products would actually be even less stable than other people's betas.

Windows 7  is a fantastic OS and well worth the $49 upgrade. Being a Microsoft fanboy, I'd pay the regular prices as well. However, beyond the promotional pricing, I think it would have been a huge positive for Microsoft among its average users to keep the price low. I wish they had done that.

Can anyone confirm that you can use the upgrade media to do a clean install as long as you have the previous O/S?

Thanks!!!

mikegalos, I pretty much agree with all your points, but if you think thats going to stop Apple from using this pricing to ridicule MS in their commercials, you're dead wrong. Since when have the facts mattered to Apple? Perception is reality, and they will create the perception that the pricing is obscene and ridiculous, logic be damned. You know they will, and nobody will listen to or care about the facts.

Looks like I'll be taking up the discount for students after all. I would have thought the upgrade edition of Home Premium be under $100, at least.

I had hoped that pricing for the Home Edition would be better and include a much needed family pack.

On the upside, the retail pricing won't reflect reality pricing.

You know, there's the "pony up" logic then there's actual logic. Charging Vista Ultimate users the same price to upgrade to 7 Ultimate as they are to XP Home users is insulting.

rlcronin, then more fool Apple.  Intelligent people will see Apple for the lying untrustworthy idiots that they are if they decide to mock and will simply ignore them.

Does anyone think the timing for the upgrade promotion is a little odd.  It seems arbitrary and rather short.  Is there a point to doing the promotion the way they did?

Master3

I never said MS should match the OS X price, which by the way only applies to upgrading for leopard. It's $129 otherwise. I just said they look like asses by comparison.

Fact: Win  7 is version 6.1, so is a "Minor" upgrade from Vista, 6.0. Yes it’s still more of a minor upgrade then SL, but none the less, a minor upgrade.

I paid $200 (on sale) to upgrade from XP to Vista Ultimate, a Major upgrade. Should I really need to spend an additional $220 to upgrade to Win 7?  $420 for me to upgrade from XP to Win 7?  Seems a little steep.  $100 Vista Ultimate to Win 7 Ultimate is more palatable.  I would even go as far as saying $50 since they mostly failed with Ultimate Extras, but that’s wishful thinking

Congratulations Microsoft, you screwed you're best Windows Vista customers.

I purchased Windows Vista Ultimate, in part due to the great "Ultimate Extras" that were suppose to be delivered.  Microsoft abandoned that effort.

Now that Windows 7 is coming out, the only edition that I can upgrade to is Windows 7 Ultimate.  Yes, that's right - I got screwed on Windows Vista Ultimate and my reward is to overpay for Windows 7 Ultimate.  An upgrade to Windows 7 Home Premium is not allowed.

Thanks Microsoft.  You really blew it!

ricronin

Well, I certainly am not counting on Apple's advertising division to change practices and stop being deceptive and manipulative and playing fast and loose with the truth. But, hey, I guess it is technically not impossible.

They've been pushing the "Snow Leopard and Windows 7 are both just equivalent upgrades" for about a month or so now and you can already see people repeating it as though it were true.

@resplendent: "You know, there's the "pony up" logic then there's actual logic"

How does "actual logic" dictate that Vista Ultimate users should get an upgrade discount?

Big whoop. There's no real change here in retail pricing. You do kind of have to feel bad for Windows 6.1...er, I mean 7...beta testers (aka "Vista Users") who have to pay the same price as their XP counterparts after having done all the legwork for this maintenance release.

Still, "mikegalos" is correct. The pricing really hasn't changed. The Microsoft Tax remains stubbornly in effect.

Damn... Microsoft came 'so close' to getting it right this time. Oh well...

rickhuizinga and pmcgrath said it better than I did. The fact that Vista Ultimate users get absolutely no benefit to having bought in to it is insulting.

rickhuizinga, if you were stupid enough to buy Vista Ultimate just to get Ultimate Extras, then that's your loss.  Fact is, Ultimate contained every single feature from all the other editions and was marketed as such.  The "Extras" were that, just extras, little bonuses.

You should be able to upgrade to any version of Windows 7, just can't do an "in-place" upgrade (where you keep your settings - and even then apparently the clean install will copy your settings anyway).  So stop whining and get with the reality.

>>So if the RC is relatively stable for beta code it should be treated as though it was released product? That's just bizarre.<<

Paul said it, not me.

You're right.  I'd still bet it was the RC and he said 'Beta' because the article was written for a general audience.

@pcmcgrath: "Win  7 is version 6.1, so is a "Minor" upgrade from Vista, 6.0."

So, was XP (5.1) a minor upgrade to 2000?  And was Win 2003 Server (5.2) a minor upgrade to XP?  That doesn't seem to be the case.

I don't know about Apple, but Microsoft kernal point versions don't seem to dictate minor/major upgrade status.

Wow...this has to be a record pace for so many comments. This is not a major deal. Microsoft is smart to not let Apple set the price of Windows. If you think its too high, don't buy it. If enough people skip it, the price is bound to go down...

--tayme

ocean, well we can't assume, cos he was the one that said "beta", not RC.  If he wrote incorrectly, then he's not a good fact-checking journalist, is he?  Hardly a ringing endorsement of his article.

"rickhuizinga and pmcgrath said it better than I did."

Actually, Paul said it best:

"And as I previously expressed (see Pricing Malfunction: How Microsoft will Bungle the Windows 7 Launch in WinInfo), Microsoft's byzantine approach to this could seriously derail excitement..."

The fact that Paul needed three pages, two product matrix charts and over 1,300 words to describe Microsoft's pricing scheme in his overview is really telling. I know his motto is "never write one word when ten will do", but still. Pretty remarkable that it's so complex.

I'm not surprised but I am a bit disappointed. They should have been way more aggressive  in this" economic reset" we are going to be in for years to come. It isn't that big a deal for me but for a lot of people this will be beyond the price they will be willing to pay.

I wonder if the OEM for system builders is going to be the same, looks like it, will MS continue to allow this loophole? These prices will simply encourage more piracy in the long run.

I'm so glad I switched and only have to pay $29.

de Silentio

"I don't know about Apple, but Microsoft kernal point versions don't seem to dictate minor/major upgrade status."

Well, as far as Apple goes, they're all point releases since they've been shipping Version 10 of their operating system since March 2001 and are still on Version 10. They have also charged $129 as the upgrade price for four of these "point releases" (going to 10.2, 10.3, 10.4 and 10.5), nothing for one (10.0 to 10.1) and $29 for one (10.5 to 10.6) so it's pretty much impossible to tell just from Apple version numbers which "point releases" are major version changes, which are minor version changes and which are service packs.

This is all a bit confusing.

If I've got 5 machines here at home running XP, what will it cost me to upgrade to Windows 7?

Is there a discount for XP users? And how about a bulk discount?

And where would be the best place to buy them?

Anybody?

"They've been pushing the "Snow Leopard and Windows 7 are both just equivalent upgrades" for about a month or so now and you can already see people repeating it as though it were true."

Oh, come on. "People" are just repeating what Paul's reported ("here FIRST on the PAUL THURROTT'S WINDOWS SUPERSITE FOR WINDOWS") months ago: Windows 7 is an evolutionary upgrade. There's nothing major going on here; the name change and interface tweaks are designed to remove the stigma of Vista. Time will tell if it succeeds, but let's at least be honest, "mikegalos": they really ARE equivalent upgrades in every area except pricing. That's the one area where Microsoft is definitely overreaching.

kent909

Well, if you really think that $29 is a good price for an upgrade to QuickTime, support for Microsoft Exchange and bunch of kernel bug fixes, that's lovely. I'm sure Apple is happy to take your money.

tayme, sadly I think that's exactly what will happen (lots of people who might actually have bought it based on the extremely positive buzz thats been created for Windows 7, won't), and that's a shame.

I don't know if you can call Vista to Win7 equivalent to 10.5 to 10.6. The real question is why would anyone care? How does it make any difference if it is or isn't?

kent909

Well, if you really think that $29 is a good price for an upgrade to QuickTime, support for Microsoft Exchange and bunch of kernel bug fixes, that's lovely. I'm sure Apple is happy to take your money.

Mike: If you think that is all that has changed in SL then you have clearly demonstrated that you do not know what you are talking about.

Microsoft is not going to screw the OEMs by offering cheap upgrades forever. Most people get Windows with the hardware purchase. Few people upgrade. If you're one of those that does want to upgrade, get Windows before July 11. Big deal.

chipwinter, you get to pay upgrade prices x5 (so yeah a discount of sorts).  There's no (and never has been) bulk upgrade prices, beyond what you may be able to haggle from your usual seller.

I'm sorry but if MS thinks they can get away charging this much in this economy then there going to see Windows 7 sales be far lower than they expect.  I use Windows Vista Business so I'm forced to pay $200 if I want to use windows 7?  Thats way too much.  As paul said in his article, the prices should be half that.  The promotional pricing is nice but you have to wonder exactly how many people know of this deal and will take it.  

Anyway queue up the Apple ads that I'm sure Apple will run mocking the price.

Most people will make a big deal out of this. Apple's charging $29 for Snow Leopard whereas Microsoft is charging >$100. Well, Apple controls hardware and software pricing on the Mac side. The company has a lot more flexibility in the area. In the end, Microsoft has done what is right for both consumers and OEMs.

lotsa

Really. If you're going to echo the Apple marketing line at least be honest about it.

How about this, Why don't you compare the new features and enhancements on www.winsupersite.com/win7 with the changes in OS X 10.6. Feel free to use the actual Apple page at www.apple.com/.../refinements if you need to look desperately for any new features. You'll end up with such trivia as "Improved resolution in iChat" and "Automatic Time Zone Update"

Seriously, the user level features added in the upgrade from OS X 10.5 to 10.6 come down to an update to QuickTime, an extra icon layout mode usable in a couple of utilities, support for talking to Microsoft Exchange servers (for those few Macs in corporate use) and the kind of trivia that normally don't even get mentioned beyond footnotes in the documentation.

But, hey, prove me wrong. Tell us all those major user level features that make going from 10.5 to 10.6 a compelling upgrade that's equivalent to all the features Paul lists for Windows 7.

Also I would like to say that if Windows 7 ultimate gets anymore expensive it'd be almost cheaper to buy a technet subscription and use windows 7 ultimate that way.

CyBrett,

According to microsofts FAQ you can do a clean install from the upgrade media (you of coarse just need legit copy of XP or Vista).

kent909,

I did notice you didn't actually bother to list any of those compelling user level features in your reply and, instead, just huffed about how I didn't know what I was talking about.

Feel free to take up the challenge I offered to lotsa and tell us all those user level features that were added with the upgrade to 10.6 that make it an equivalent upgrade comparable to what Paul lists in his Windows 7 features pages.

adamb1000, don't be silly.  The prices are pretty much the same as Vista and they were selling in larger volumes than XP.

You can buy the upgrade edition of any, you'll just won't be able to perform an in-place upgrade if 7 isn't Professional or Ultimate.

adamb1000

You're pretty much on the money for which users Windows 7 Ultimate targets. It's not meant for general users. It's meant for precisely the kind of Developers and IT Pros who get an MSDN or TechNet+ subscription because they need to have access to every possible feature set for testing the apps they write or manage.

Check this out at engadget.com

"Microsoft's hooked us up with 100 special pre-order codes for Windows 7, which are good for a 48-hour period starting tomorrow, June 26th, 2009. These codes (only available to U.S. residents) will guarantee you a pre-order of Windows 7 at the discounted prices of $49.99 for Home Premium and $99.99 for Professional, even if it sells out -- and it might"

"Mike: If you think that is all that has changed in SL then you have clearly demonstrated that you do not know what you are talking about."

Well, duh.

@realtestman "rickhuizinga, if you were stupid enough to buy Vista Ultimate just to get Ultimate Extras, then that's your loss"

Stupid enough?   How about defrauded?

Anything but an in-place upgrade is insufficient.  I have terabytes of recorded TV stored on my Windows Home Server that will not playback under a new operating system installation.

Oh mikegalos. You never, EVER cease to amaze and entertain.

Whatever the Microsoft equivalent of the "Apple Cool-Aid" is, you, without a doubt, go through a couple of kegs a day.

I guess I'll just use my Windows 7 RC till it expires, then go back to Vista Ultimate. I was really looking forward to the Win 7 'upgrade'... But at that price I can see no reason to take that route.

Interesting. I've had multiple personal attacks about what's in OS X 10.6 but nobody's been willing to list those mythical user level features that make it "the equivalent upgrade" to Windows 7.

Well, that's pretty much par for the course.

>>I guess I'll just use my Windows 7 RC till it expires, then go back to Vista Ultimate.<<

I'll be buying myself a new laptop when the RC expires.  Giving it away for almost a year was stroke of genius on MS' part.

"nobody's been willing to list those mythical user level features that make it "the equivalent upgrade" to Windows 7."

We've learned to swim past your bait.

I am pleased to see Microsoft respect themsleves and their pricing.

It is business rule #2: Respect your pricing, or no one else will.

Windows is worth the price. Windows 7 is very solid certainly worthy of being presented as a major upgrade for both XP and Vista users. It is not as monumental an upgrade as XP to Vista was, but it is still very significant.

Microsoft, most especially Microsoft, needs to drive their own case in this race. They need to largely ignore those they seem to chase after - chase the market, perhaps, but never the guy in front of your, or pull the guy behind. The pricing is more than fair.

All in all, not bad for 29 bucks (particularly the new features for people with disabilities):

www.apple.com/.../accessibility

www.apple.com/.../refinements

www.apple.com/.../refinementsenhancements-refinements.html

www.apple.com/.../technology

"Ocean

1) No. Lyons says he was running the beta. "

Oooh, he's a bigger idiot than I thought he was. Beta software crashes? Wow! That's news.

Instead of cribbing about the $120 upgrade, why don't you guys just buy it for $50 before July 11 instead? (Of course, if you were actually planning to buy it, that is.)

"Being a Microsoft fanboy, I'd pay the regular prices as well."

There are no Microsoft fanboys. "mikegalos" and others repeatedly tell us that, Jabba. Stop pretending.  ;-)

lotsa

You were the one who made wild claims about equivalence and then got huffy when you were asked to back up your own claim.

Of course you still haven't been able to back up your claim with facts. Not a big surprise.

I love getting upgrade disc for free with a new computer. It gives a choice to move to the new OS or stay with the old if you prefer.

Sharkster has the right optimistic attitude, pre-order and get the upgrade disc for $49. You know you want it, so buy 3 less pizzas and get the upgrade!

"Everyone knows Apple's flunkies in the press are going to try to run their FUD engines on Win7. Their not bright people to begin with, and they never miss a chance to remind us in their writings."

Oh, yes, "their" not bright people. That's what I here two.

I'm embarrassed for you.

de Silentio

Coming from Win 2000 on the Professional side, XP was a minor upgrade, a broken one at that. It wasn't until SP 2 that it was worth deploying.  It was only a major upgrade for those coming from Win 9x.

Server 2003 is also a minor upgrade.  It added some features and the XP interface, but still basically Win 2000 server under the covers.

So bottom line for me is I think the price is too high, especially for those of us who have already purchased Vista

i am definitely going to be buying (even if they do screw us in the UK!) - this is an awesome product.

i think some people expect Microsoft to be a charity - it's business and they're in it to make money. end of.

i wouldnt carry on it business just to make people happy and provide them with give-aways, in these tough times MS are standing their ground, if they give in now, it will stick with them for future versions of windows. fair play.

they sell most new windows with new machines and to corporations, so even if you do upgrade (1% of users probably will - and pretty much 100% of people on this site are part of that 1%) then you're going to have to bite the bullet and shell out.

one thing's for sure, there is not chance in hell that i'm going back to Vista after using 7 for the last 6 months. no effing way.

crank

Why not buy the upgrade for the somewhat reasonable price available starting tomorrow.

"Do you think the price disparity will show up in an Apple ad? I'm pretty sure Justin Long & John Hodgman are currently practicing their lines."

Count on it. You can almost imagine the script.

Microsoft has just thrown away whatever traction they might have gained from the Laptop Hunter ads.

And, Mike, I'm afraid you've missed the point. No one outside this group, and a few other 0.1% of the users are going to know or care about whether S.L. is "a few kernel upgrades" and/or Win7 is "user interface tweaks", etc.

What everyone will see is $29, one low price, vs. higher prices, a complicated, version and time dependent upgrade system, even region dependent. You can here it now, "Upgrade to Snow Leopard for $29, instead of up to $319 to move to Windows 7." True statement. although not very relevant to most users. It won't matter.

This walks right into the place where Apple wants Microsoft to go: complex, expensive, hard to understand, punitive to early adopters, etc. Set in context of the Vista fiasco, this will look even worse. Whether or not Vista WAS a fiasco is irrelevant; the perceptions will be the whole show.

Microsoft had a golden opportunity to change its image and they were too dumb to take it. They could have taken the 'we're on your side" position, and probably at a fairly low cost. Consider the free PR that Microsoft could have gotten by making upgrades simpler and cheaper and weigh that against the $300M they are  spending on advertising.

Corporate DNA strikes again. They just can't help it.

"Oh, yes, "their" not bright people. That's what I here two.

I'm embarrassed for you."

I'll give you a minute before the rocks start to do damage to your glass house.

" chuckb84  said:

"Do you think the price disparity will show up in an Apple ad? I'm pretty sure Justin Long & John Hodgman are currently practicing their lines."

Count on it. You can almost imagine the script....."

So in other words, Apple is going to lie. Again.

"Our OS service pack upgrade is only $20! It wont work on your PC and you will have to buy our more expensive hardware to use it! So in the end you will lose money on the whole exchange, but we think your are too stupid to notice, cause we are Apple, and we are too cool to be honest!!!!!"

Yeah, Chuck, you guys just go roll with that. It'll be killer...

Microsoft had a chance to really make a difference for once and they blew it.  

Had they done something for consumer Vista users with a special upgrade price for those on Vista, as in like Apple did they could have made the "new windows" release even more special and capture even more POSTIVE press.

This pricing will just get ridiculed in the IT press world, especially after what Apple did with Leopard upgraders.

I agree that Apple is already filming "The Price" ad ready to drop on the day Windows 7 ships.

At least the bing ads are good.

chuck

"Microsoft has just thrown away whatever traction they might have gained from the Laptop Hunter ads."

You think someone buying a new laptop will suddenly find a $2,200 Apple laptop an appealing choice because the $700 Windows Vista laptop that meets their actual needs now includes a coupon for an upgrade to Windows 7?

Care to explain how that works.

Master3

You forgot, "Oh, and to those of you who bought those insanely expensive Power Mac G5s three years ago because we told you how Intel sucks and PowerPC was the future... Oopsie. No upgrades for you. Maybe you can dump it on somebody on ebay who hasn't heard we've abandoned it."

rickhuizinga, you paid for Ultimate.  If you want to keep it all, then you'll have to pony up.  In fact, why did you even buy Ultimate in the first place when you didn't need the features?  Oh yeah, cos of the "Extras".  That's your fault for being misled.  Everyone else buys Windows for the features it has, not for the features they THINK it's going to have.

""And as I previously expressed (see Pricing Malfunction: How Microsoft will Bungle the Windows 7 Launch in WinInfo), Microsoft's byzantine approach to this could seriously derail excitement..."

The fact that Paul needed three pages, two product matrix charts and over 1,300 words to describe Microsoft's pricing scheme in his overview is really telling. I know his motto is "never write one word when ten will do", but still. Pretty remarkable that it's so complex."

Exactly. It's "If MIcrosoft Made the iPod Product Packaging" all over again. Just amazing that that video was made internally at Microsoft and they Still. Just. Don't. Get it.

Apple and the IT press will have fun with this. Paul really tried to warn Microsoft and they walked right into it, just as he said they would.

chuck

Actually, the Windows 7 packaging is very simple. See: windowsteamblog.com/.../check-out-the-new-windows-7-packaging.aspx

"rr0de74@live.com

Microsoft had a chance to really make a difference for once and they blew it.  

Had they done something for consumer Vista users with a special upgrade price for those on Vista, as in like Apple did they could have made the "new windows" release even more special and capture even more POSTIVE press."

By what? Selling their OS at the same price as a minor service upgrade? What third-rate hack tech writer is going to really make a total idiot of themselves by making such an argument? (other than the usual idiots)

"This pricing will just get ridiculed in the IT press world, especially after what Apple did with Leopard upgraders."

Ok, I see. This was the whole point of Apple doing this.

In the past they charged 120 dollars for all of their new OS releases. So they pump this service upgrade as if it is a whole new OS, which it is not, but charge 20.00 for it, knowing that MS isnt going to charge $20 for a major OS release. H3ll, Apple, when they release the real successor to Leopard/Snow Leopard isnt going to charge 20.00 for it, but that's not the point they want people to pay attention to.

What they are hoping for is that their legion of trolls and biased tech writers completely ignore all of the above and basically lie on their behalf pushing the talking point, that I have seen on several boards today, that while "M$" is being evil and charging you oh so much for their OS, holy Apple wants to just make you life better by practically giving their OS away! Hugs!!!!!

And the astonishing thing is that, as we have seen here, Apple's dingbat fans are actually hoping for them to blatantly lie in a TV ad making this same claim!

Apple knows the machine it has, and how brainlessly easy it is to get their little cogs to work their magic on cue. Give them a talking point and watch them breathlessly run with it.

It looks like the points, rebuttals, and rebuttal-rebuttals have been made. Now we wait and see what the world at large makes of this. Paul predicted this scenario and what the consequences can be. I think he was right in principle, but the question is the size of the effect. Dramatic? Irrelevant? We'll see:

windowsitpro.com/.../pricing-malfunction-how-microsoft-will-bungle-the-windows-7-launch.html

"Apple and the IT press will have fun with this. Paul really tried to warn Microsoft and they walked right into it, just as he said they would."

They're going to mock Windows 7 whether it costs $0 or $200. So, Microsoft should ignore them and do what's best for OEMs, shareholders and users. All three groups obviously have competing objectives, so the optimal solution is one that sort of pleases everyone. Good job, Microsoft.

No one is mentioning the fact that if your PC supports it your basically getting free XP on the higher end versions of 7. Also I wouldnt class it as a minor update. However as someone said this morning why is it is somthing is $200 its £200 no exchange rates?

Oh and is there offical MS links yet for the pricing if its offical and offical uk pricing?

Since kent and lotsa seem unable or unwilling to justify their silly claim that Windows 7 is no more significant an upgrade than OS X 10.5 to 10.6, I'll make it easy for them. Paul's already listed the major update changes both on the WinSupersite Windows 7 section and in his new book. By comparison, here's the list of user level features being added or improved in OS X 10.6 that kent and lotsa claim is the equivalent to what Windows 7 adds to Windows Vista:

* Updated QuickTime

* Support for Microsoft Exchange Server

* Added an additional view in Expose and Stacks

* New Chinese character set input method

* Higher resolution support in iChat with new codec

* Improved Services menu

* Automatic printer driver update

* Automatic time zone setup

* Improved text selection in PDF files

* Upgraded preinstalled copy of Safari to version 4

* Blocked disk eject now identifies the blocking app

* Wake on LAN support

* Dropped support for PowerPC based computers

Maybe they honestly think these really do make a compelling and major upgrade. But I'd love to see their thinking to justify that.

Notice how the price of Snow Leopard was decidedly low during Jobs leave. When he found out, it probably put him in liver failure!

One could argue that Exchange server support could pay for the upgrade, but there's really only a handful a customers that actually use Exchange on a Mac, compared to the user base.

DRWAM

I agree that support for Exchange is a big feature for the few Mac users on corporate networks.

As for Jobs, your theory does make sense in terms of explaining how he went from having a cold to needing to replace a major organ.

"As for Jobs, your theory does make sense in terms of explaining how he went from having a cold to needing to replace a major organ."

Really, it was originally pubicized as him having a cold? I must have missed that.

But really...in the case of the pricing of W7, mikegalos is mostly right. I still stand by my opinion that Microsoft would have been dumb to let Apple dictate the price. One has to keep in mind, that Windows is installable on an almost infinite number of configurations of hardware, including those made by Apple(the Intel variants, anyway). OS X SL is limited, legally, only to Intel models of Macintosh computers, and the price of those negates the price difference of the OS. People should just buy what they want and quit worrying about what others are buying. If you don't like what the other OS offers, don't use it...but quit assuming that one side is better than the other...it is petty and simple minded.

--tayme

@Mike

"But, hey, prove me wrong. Tell us all those major user level features that make going from 10.5 to 10.6 a compelling upgrade that's equivalent to all the features Paul lists for Windows 7."

Speed,  Snow Leopard is fast, old hardware feeling like new hardware fast.

The funny thing is that all the people who complain about the pricing are the sort of people who will complain about anything and are in the very very small minority.  Considering the price is virtually the same as Vista (and in some cases cheaper), it'll probably sell more than Vista did in the same timeframe, which will be more than what XP sold in the same timeframe.  So Microsoft will make even more money, people will STILL use Windows in their overwhelming droves and their prices will be completely justified as a result.  And at the end of the day, no one will care about the people who have whined about the price because they want a free ride.

mikegalos@msn.com said:

kent909,

I did notice you didn't actually bother to list any of those compelling user level features in your reply and, instead, just huffed about how I didn't know what I was talking about.

Feel free to take up the challenge I offered to lotsa and tell us all those user level features that were added with the upgrade to 10.6 that make it an equivalent upgrade comparable to what Paul lists in his Windows 7 features pages.

Mike: Why do you even care what has or has not been added to SL or how much it will cost to upgrade. You are a Windows guy and you are not going to use SL even if it was free. So if you would like to talk about how fortunate you are because MS is giving you everything you could ever want in Win 7, then fo for it.

"Speed,  Windows 7 is fast, old hardware feeling like new hardware fast."

I fixed it for you.

Of course, the comparison is not entirely fair.  Since Snow Leopard removed PowerPC compatibility, the overall breadth of processor choices is much smaller and recent.  To make the claim that SL works on old hardware, we only need to go back a few years when they switched to Intel.

@master, you need to step back before you have an aneurism.  I wont or don't care to argue wether 7 is a major or minor upgrade, or wether SL is a major or minor.  The spin here will depend on your bias, and my bias is for neither, or I guess I just don't care that much.

I am simply saying, that the average consumer will probably see what chuck is stating.  On one side you have Apple with a $29 upgrade for its single OS choice.  On the other side you have Microsoft with much higher upgrade prices, depending upon which version you have or want to go to etc.  The price and complexity are glaring for the average consumer.  

The technical details are ignored by the average consumer.  Unless they are stated something like "starts up in only x seconds, shuts down in only x seconds" or "8 hours of battery life"  Anything more technical and you start to loose them quickly.

Mabye we are underesitmating consumers

"Considering the price is virtually the same as Vista (and in some cases cheaper), it'll probably sell more than Vista did in the same timeframe, which will be more than what XP sold in the same timeframe."

I agree.  If it does not, then Microsoft is in trouble.  Windows 7 sales have a built in boost, or they should.  XP is old as dirt now and people want off of it.  Vista has a horrible stigma with it and people want off of it, if they ever went there.  7 should have record sales.  The angst that has built up to get to something better is felt by almost all Windows users and should work in Microsoft's favor.

Had 7 shipped 3 years after XP then it would probably be a much different story.

@ ChipWinter

It will cost approx. $50 per machine to make the move if you take advantage of the early retail discount. You will have to download the ISO and burn it to disc. Microsoft will somehow provide you with the Product Keys. Print them out.

You will be able to choose between 32 and 64 bit, but unless you are running machines 64-bit capable *and* with more than 2GB RAM each, stick with the 32-bit version.

As well, Win7 will go on "clean" and then you use Windows Transfer to bring over the files from the old installation to the new. This means you will have to reinstall your apps.

It's a lot of work doing five machines - you will have to have an Install Day - maybe some Saturday.

That said: line-up hardware drivers beforehand and burn them to disc (Windows Vista drivers should work if no Windows 7 are available on the manufacturers' websites), make sure you have the various CDs for your apps available and their product keys, make sure to have any 'numbers' ready for things like your ISP and email accounts, and have paper and pencil handy. 'Should be fun - have lots of coffee brewed.

No family pack.  Don't Windows Users have kids and multiple computers?

Microsoft, this is 2009.

Wow. Microsoft really blew a huge opportunity here. I am very disappointed.

I was really hoping that Microsoft would match what Apple was doing. But here they go again, trotting out an expensive version of Windows 7. All I can say is that I'm extremely disappointed. Looks like I'll be holding off on a Windows 7 for awhile. If the prices were reasonable, I would have gone out and bought a full version. This is pretty close to the standard pricing by Microsoft and no consideration that 9.4 % of the  American workforce is now unemployed. Thats millions of folks who definitely cannot upgrade, and millions more struggling.

It's really too bad, because Windows 7 would be worth that price in a normal economic situation. If folks were working and everything wasn't so expensive, then I could see that.

But in 2009, this pricing absolutely sucks. Microsoft has really hurt the buzz on Windows 7 for many who wanted this OS. Very truely disappointing.

Microsoft doesn't offer "family packs" - it offers "service packs" for free / no charge.

@ subzerohitman

I would have to agree.  Microsoft's problem is that they pretend that OS X and Ubuntu don't exist.  Mate, you have competitors.  No one expects Microsoft to match Linux pricing, but Apple's - Yes.

@ Saucy - a family pack is a multiuser pack, not a bug fix.

Avro,

Completely agree with you. You cannot pretend they don't exisit. If anything, I feel that Microsoft just tossed both Ubuntu and SnowLeopard a "huge freaking bone" here. This was really bad in terms of PR.

Once I make an adjustment to my PC, I will have to check out the current version of Ubuntu.

BBC website mentioned that there will be something akin to a "family pack"

@ Gorath

Why doesn't  Microsoft mention it?

"This is pretty close to the standard pricing by Microsoft and no consideration that 9.4 % of the  American workforce is now unemployed. Thats millions of folks who definitely cannot upgrade, and millions more struggling."

I doubt they even care about Windows 7. They're not standing in the unemployment line waiting for a copy of Windows 7. For the few people that do want to upgrade, they can do so before July 11. For everyone else, they will get Windows 7 when they buy their next PC.

This is all starting to get silly now. Why Apple? Why not follow Canonical and make Windows free? That would definitely make people happy. Yes, it would send about 20,000 people to the unemployment line, but who cares? After all the economy is so bad. Then again, why only Microsoft? Why doesn't Sony give me my next TV for free?

Shark has a point. Also, only people that own a Mac already will be enticed to upgrade for only $29, but it will not increase the sales of the hardware, which is still more expensive, especially the laptops. I will agree that the iMac is at least close in price, but MBP has a 50 - 100% difference, just in base models. Therefore, the cost of an upgrade to Win 7 may not make much of a difference in sales.

Has anyone seen any announcements regarding any early discounts for Ultimate full or upgrade?

@DRWAM don't forget that most Mac buyers get education discounts and throw in an iPod Touch and cheap 3 year AppleCare and the price looks very competitive indeed.

For anyone eligible don't forget the Employee Home Use deals. I think we'll get Win 7 for about $20, and even I will buy it at that price :)

The Microsoft tax at work. This is a rip-off for such a minor upgrade.

At least Apple treat the customers with intelligence and only charge $29 for a minor upgrade.

MS is taking care of those who are buying new computers. new buyers will be getting windows 7 when it releases!

the prices are a little on higher side for upgrades.. but this is business. MS has more compulsions than apple..

biggest competition for windows 7 is not apple or ubuntu.. its windows xp or windows vista... apple has no such situation..

MS cant make upgrade too cheap, in which case DELL, HP and other computer manufacturers will find it tough to get people to buy a new hardware...with windows 7 on it..!

windows and office is bread and butter for MS (like adSense for google; hardware for apple) you cant expect them to do a charity on that..!

Also, Avro, a Xeon WS is hundreds to thousands cheaper from Apple than Dell or HP.

Wow, Michael Jackson dead at age 50!

"@DRWAM don't forget that most Mac buyers get education discounts and throw in an iPod Touch and cheap 3 year AppleCare and the price looks very competitive indeed."

Well, if you look at it that way, I used to get Windows for free when I was in school, through the  program we had with Microsoft. So, big deal.

"Mossberg: New MacBook Pro has best battery life "ever tested""

As they say, you get what you pay for. Yet Windows users are too cheap and prefer cheap crappy laptops and PCs.

@Shark47: "I doubt they even care about Windows 7..."

Well Said.

Brandon LeBlanc responded to my comment on the Windows Blog and confirmed the UK *will* be getting the E-editions.

I'll probably jump on the 49.99 deal because I am an enthusiast.  Then again I really like Windows Defender in Vista and don't want to give up the Software Explorer built into Defender.

I just need clarity on this.  I see a matrix that says the only possible upgrade path for Vista Ultimate is Windows 7 Ultimate. Are they referring to in place upgrades or clean installs also?  I have no issue doing a clean install myself, but like many people I see no need to upgrade to Windows 7 Ultimate and want to move to Home Premium or Professional and take advantage of the special pricing.

In my mind even though these are "lower" editions, this is still an upgrade moving to the new OS.  I mean, going from Vista Ultimate to Windows 7 Starter is technically still an "upgrade" is it not? (and yes I know Starter is not a retail SKU but it gets the point across).

I guess I really don't understand the logic in all this.  It seems that it should be the same price to move to the corresponding Windows 7 version.  To tell people they will have to pay more to upgrade Ultimate->Ultimate than they would have had they stuck with Home Premium is crazy when they already paid a premium price last time around. How are they checking these anyway, do you have to enter your Vista key to qualify?

Bottom line, if I can purchase Windows 7 Home Premium or Professional Upgrade and do a clean install on my current Vista Ultimate machine I'll be fine. If not, I'm going to be very upset.

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@mikegalos - I didn't say it was unfair, it implied that it was stupid when you take in to account the current environment. Read my post again, no need to be sarcastic, I'm not having a dig at you or Microsoft, I love their products, I just don't think their prices reflect a realistic assessment of the market at the moment.

And making the point that their prices are "Fair" is non-sensical: Of course they're fair. You can choose to pay or not. A price of $2000 is a fair price, because you're quite entitled to look at that price and say "Nope, I'm not paying it". It would be unfair if there were no alternatives, but there are plenty of alternatives and they are priced EXTREMELY competitively.

No more talk about fairness: Let's see them COMPETE.

@ Shark 47

What I did was no different than Paul pointing out that Microsoft provides multi-user licenses for its Enterprise customers.

Both Microsoft and Apple look after their main customer base.

benjwah

"No more talk about fairness: Let's see them COMPETE"

First off, I'm happy to discuss fairness even if you aren't. That's a huge part of why I'm here.

But if you only are interested in talking about competing, I'd just say this:

Windows operating systems: 95%

Unix and Unix-like operating systems (OS X, Linux, Solaris, etc): 5%

I'd say that a 19:1 ratio is competing rather well. (And I rounded in favor of the non-Microsoft architecture)

@ mike

Windows' marketshare is down below 88% now.

www.computerworld.com/.../article.do

95% looks like 1996

I would have been willing to pay about $50 to upgrade my Vista Ultimate to 7 Ultimate... But it doesn't even look like 'Ultimate' is included in the "special deal".

*edit* Ok, after reading a little further I now realize you can do a clean install with the upgrades.... I guess I might be willing to install 7 Home Premium over Vista Ultimate... for $50 bucks it's a pretty good deal.

Windows Vista Ultimate upgrades to any Windows 7 edition, but it's a downgrade to pay for Windows 7 !Ultimate.

www.microsoft.com/.../details.aspx

With Vista, Australia got ill treated with much-more-expensive-than-U.S-pricing, and I doubt 7 will be different. Certain programs will get backported to Vista. There's not enough additions to justify the higher price. It still has WGA and an unfriendly EULA. I'm not switching back.

Sadly, your normal humans won't notice. They buy PCs, with it preinstalled, at an invisible cost.

OOPS SORRY DISREGARD FIRST BIT. I read X to mean "Upgrade is supported"

So, Ultimate->Ultimate only, and another annoyance for would-be-upgraders who won't notice this.

"@ Shark 47

What I did was no different than Paul pointing out that Microsoft provides multi-user licenses for its Enterprise customers.

Both Microsoft and Apple look after their main customer base."

Not really. You were using that as an example to show how cheap Macs are, while I was using MSDNAA pricing as an example to show how cheap Windows is.

@ Shark

Microsoft doesn't make hardware.

What on earth is MSDNAA? - sounds like something DRWAM should be treating.

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