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Who's charging? For what a utility?

And what is Windows 7! Seven     ?!?!question mark?

Mr. Thurrott, please have a coffee before blogging.

It's time to let go people.  It's like the change to Office 2007.  After a few hours of using it, you'll get used to it.

Sure.  Why not.

I hadn't realized that the Vista/Win7 Start Menu was that difficult...

There will be organizations that pay for something like this because it means they won't have to re-train their staff.

Of course, just because they're charging doesn't mean anybody's actually buying.

Personally, I can not stand the Win XP start Menu after a year with Vista.  Every day at work I miss the search.  I can't imagine paying for a regression like this.

@Ocean

Retrain your staff on the new start menu? are you kidding?

If you can't figure out the start menu in about 60 seconds..... your in trouble.

People need to move on. Microsoft shouldn't have to retain old stuff for years and years just because long-time users are to stubborn to get used to the new interface.

@Ocean

If one of my employees can not figure out the start menu just by poking around with it.... I guess they can:

A- ask another coworker to show them in 5 minutes or less

B- Go to youtube watch a how to video

C- Find a different career that does not require you to think

I applaud Microsoft for charging because it will force people to learn the new and forget about the old.

@DarkSages

This is a third-party utility; MS isn't the one charging.

It should be noted that a skilled developer could probably create something like this in a matter of hours. Do they really expect people to pay $25 for this?

I'm still using the classic Start menu under Vista. The reason is that with one hand and two keystrokes I can do the following:

1. Press and release the WIndows Key - up pops the classic Start menu

2. Press a unique letter to switch to one of my favorite (usually already open) applications:  a text editor (NoteTabPro), or a file explorer (Total Commander).

Could someone please tell me how I can do that with the latest/greatest Start menu.  Again, no mouse clicks, no multiple+simultaneous key sequences (e.g., while holding down the Windows key, press the 1 key, etc.) for what I tend to do numerous times per day?

t

scur, how is holding down the start key, and hiting 1,2,3,4,5 etc etc any more keystrokes than hitting the start key and THEN hitting a letter?

"B- Go to youtube watch a how to video"

Wow you let users get to youtube?

I deleted my 7 RC vm after two weeks of playing around with it but I thought for sure that Classic was in it?

Another reason to use classic is with VDI's.  Classic cuts out all of the fancy GUI features and is faster.  We have our XP VDI's setup with classic, and users dont care.  We will use Classic with Windows 7 VDI's or whatever is the least hit on the GUI, when we move to 7, in 2011.

@gorath The keyboards I use have the Windows key far away from the numeric keys. My hand(s) is/are not big enough to do that *ONE* handed.

I just googled it there is a Windows Classic theme in the RC.

So is MS going to pull this for the RTM version and then charge for it?

@rr0de74 - As planetarian stated above...it is not a MS charge...it is a third party utility. I have not seen the RC yet...haven't had time to mess with it. It would be interesting if they did remove features from the RC to the RTM. I am guessing that there are some here that can answer that part of your question, though.

--tayme

"So is MS going to pull this for the RTM version and then charge for it?"

No, why would they?  This is not MS offering this application.  It's another developer charging a ridiculous price for a very minor "feature".

scur, I think you can do that in 7.  Since the new bar acts like Quick Launch, you can do that with incrementing numerals from left to right.  And I think you can easily assign keyboard shortcuts to get the functionality that you desire.

Lucky for MS that so many users want to  cling to the past. If more users were open minded and looked for better ways to do things, MS would lose more users to the Mac.

I guess Microsoft had three options each with advantages and disadvantages:

1) Employ only the new Start Menu.

Advantage: Everybody's on the same page.

Disadvantage: Criticism from traditionalists who want "choice".

2) Allow for both the old and new Start Menu.

Advantage: Makes everybody happy.

Disadvantage: Inconsistent user interface between computers.

3) Charge for use of old Start Menu.

Advantage: Allows for choice but encourages users to adopt new interface.

Disadvantage: Looks petty. Nickel and dimming people to death.

Of the three options, I would have chosen option 1, but I can readily see why Microsoft might have decided to avoid the heat and select option 2. But option 3 is obviously the weakest option available. It doesn't unify the operating system and still subjects Microsoft to criticism. Microsoft is spending literally millions of dollars in an ad campaign to portray themselves as the most cost effective solution to one's computer needs. Why voluntarily paint yourself as costly and petty?  I can hardly believe that someone in their corporate headquarters did not see this as the PR blunder that it is. It's just a minor thing. But as Paul said: "Unbelievable.

@rr0de74@live.com

Yeah but I also have a hardware firewall that can also tell me if a computer was in youtube and watch "girls gone wild". I don't block any sites at work there is no point. I do have deadlines and I don't think that they have time to watch Hulu but if they do good for them.

@Paul - You may want to post an update, making it clear that this is NOT a Microsoft offering. Obviously people are not clicking the link that is in your article that takes them to a third party development site...

--tayme

Lucky for MS that so many users want to  cling to the past. If more users were open minded and looked for better ways to do things, MS would lose more users to the Mac.

=============

It could be the other way around. People are so stupid and lazy that MS has to stick to the past. Just one example, some readers here don't even bother to check the link in this post to realize this utility does not come from MS.

I had an idea a while back and that is a "Tech Support" option - one that doesn't go away even if a style changes or a theme changes or a different menu system is used.

That way people could run, say, a 'classic' style menu but a tech support person could ask them to right click on the desktop - or however it is implemented - and select 'Tech Support' which sets the various interfaces to a standard known way ..

Just an idea.

"I can hardly believe that someone in their corporate headquarters did not see this as the PR blunder that it is."

MS is *NOT* the one offering this solution.

Um, quick question for anybody:

What happens if you disable the Themes Service in Windows 7?

Therein lies your answer.

Paul, your post isn't very clear about WHO is offering this. As you can see in the other comments, it's ambigous unless you click through.

This type of add on isn't that much different than any other third party start menu enhancement.

@rrode74:

You can disable extra graphics effects with Microsoft's virtualization options already.  It's designed to save on bandwidth.

@all:

Most people that used the old classic Start Menu haven't done so since Windows 98.  If you can't get over it, then you shouldn't use Windows 7.  It's just too new for you.

... And I thought my mother was the ONLY one who still insisted on using the 'classic' start menu.

looks like someone beat me to the chase:

lifehacker.com/.../csmenu-brings-the-classic-start-menu-back-to-windows-7

Whoops, posted prematurely. The above link is to lifehacker's article on a product exactly like this, but free. I hate to promote the piece of trash that is the classic start menu, but I'd hate to see someone paying that kind of price for it regardless.

Mea Culpa. I did not realize that it was not Microsoft offering the Menu option. If I could I would delete my earlier post.

The classic THEME is still in Windows 7 - but the old style Start Menu - you know - the one with cascading menus that fly out - is not there. Apparently this 3rd party utility provides just such a old style menu system.

Have Windows 7 the way you want it.

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A year or so after 7 is released, no one will care about the "classic" Start menu.  After all, no one was going on about desperately wanting the Program Manager in Windows 95, 98 and Me.

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For goodness sake haven't we moved on from classic menu's several years ago. Of course you can configure this to the way you want but paying money for it is ludicrous.

realtestman

"After all, no one was going on about desperately wanting the Program Manager in Windows 95, 98 and Me"

Actually, Microsoft had to make Program Manager available as a download for many years after Win95 made it obsolete because some companies didn't want to migrate their employees to a new UI.

You'll notice that the "edlin" line editor is STILL shipping in Windows 7 since some people have batch files that use it in automation and you don't break people's processes if you have a reasonable choice.

$25 for that?!?! And Apple are only charging $29 for a minor update to the OS. Microsoft? $219.99 for their minor update. Microsoft tax at work.

@robertsjoe genius RUNS from your family.  

This product is not an offering from Microsoft.

Microsoft copying and stealing yet again: gigaom.com/.../bing-and-kayak-can-you-tell-them-apart

Once Evil, always Evil.

@lindy: Thanks, I know! Obviously doesn't run in yours. Glad you noticed though.

BobbieJo

"And Apple are only charging $29 for a minor update to the OS. "

Not so much. I understand lots of Mac people are confused by it so here's a summary again:

If, AND ONLY IF, you bought a new Mac since late October 2007 do you qualify for the $29 point release price. If you bought your Mac before that you either can't run it at all (Macs from 1984-2005 and some sold as late as August 2006 are now orphaned technology) or you have had to pay a total of roughly $160-170 for this upgrade.

Mac OS X 10.0 through 10.3 -> 10.6 (Not Possible, PowerPC is orphaned technology)

Mac OS X 10.4 PowerPC -> 10.6 (Not Possible, PowerPC is orphaned technology)

Mac OS X 10.4 Intel -> 10.6 (Either $158 [10.4->10.5->10.6] or $169 [Mac Box Set])

Mac OS X 10.5 -> 10.6 ($29)

By comparison:

Windows 2000 -> Windows 7 - $50-$120 depending on version wanted

Windows XP -> Windows 7 - $50-$120 depending on version wanted

Windows Vista -> Windows 7 - $50-$120 depending on version wanted

And, of course, if you check out Ed Bott's latest table you'll see that the closes Windows version to OS X is Home Premium so that's probably the version you should be comparing to your $158 "minor version upgrade".

(See: blogs.zdnet.com/Bott for his comparison)

Lindy said: "@robertsjoe genius RUNS from your family. "

robertsjoe said: "

@lindy: Thanks, I know! Obviously doesn't run in yours. Glad you noticed though."

ROFL!!! This is classic.  I've never seen someone agree with an insult thrown at them and then proceed to give thanks for it.  Robertsjoe is clearly IQ challenged.

@miguelgalos: Oh please, Bott's "comparison" is flawed. You can do the same in reverse and include things which are not in Windows 7, only in OS X, and you'd have the same amount of red boxes in the Windows column as you do in his current chart. So don't try and skew things. The all in one option for home users, Windows Ultimate is comparable to OS X (there is only one home option with OS X (which is better).

@jaxjaguar: You obviously don't know what sarcasm is, do you? Look it up

@miguelgalos: Still buying Snow Leopard FULL VERSION is cheaper than Windows 7 Ultimate UPGRADE.

@mikegalos: And no comment on Microsoft copying Kayak when implementing Bing? It's clear they copied it. Shameful, really.

bobbiejo

You found a way to buy a Full Version of an Apple OS? Better tell Apple's lawyers. They say the only way to get it is by buying a Macintosh.

That extra $1,000 you pay for a mediocre laptop has to pay for something.

@miguelgalos: Funny how you have nothing to say on Bing ripping-off Kayak. We know why. It's blatantly obvious that Microsoft stole it. Wouldn't be the first time.

Funny how Mike is quiet when he's face with the truth.

Funny how Mike is quiet when he's face with the truth.

I'd put this in the same category as those applications that make your XP installation look like Windows 7.

That is to say, if I want the XP start menu, I'll use XP. If I want the Win7 interface, I'll use Windows 7.

It's seems to me like buying an add-on for your new car to make it sound like it's a 20-year old bomb about to conk-out.

robertsjoe said: "@jaxjaguar: You obviously don't know what sarcasm is, do you? Look it up"

Ha ha, don't try to cover that up as sarcasm.  If you had left out the "Obviously doesn't run in yours." part then you could have passed that off as sarcasm.  It clearly was not.

If it was sarcasm, as you now claim, then you basically said that Lindy was a genius.

@robertsjoe

Regarding the Bing-Kayak remarks, this post had nothing to do with this issue so I can see why Mike would be ignoring you on it since you are just bringing it up (trolling) due to your irrational hatred of all things Microsoft.

While I’ll agree that the Bing travel results are shockingly similar in appearance to the Kayak results, you have to keep in mind that Microsoft purchased a company called Farecast and rebranded their travel site as their own.  I found a screen shot that shows what Farecast looked like prior to being acquired by Microsoft, and it looks pretty much the same as what Bing looks like.  It’s completely possible that it was Kayak that copied Farecast and now incorrectly thinks that Microsoft is plagiarizing them.  This of course is just speculation, it’s up to the lawyers to argue over, but you come here harping on about it with no insight and only because it’s a story that is currently portraying MSFT in a negative fashion when ultimately it may be ruled that Kayak is plagiarizing Microsoft (Farecast).

See Farecast for youself: common.ziffdavisinternet.com/.../0,1425,sz=1&i=182940,00.jpg

I was pissed by the removal of Classic Start menu initially in Windows 7 but since there's no killer search box, I've always wanted to get rid of Classic Start menu yet have some of its benefits which the new one doesn't have. The Quick-launch-bar-resized-small-enuf-so-it-expands-into-a->>-menu works fantastics for all the functionality of \Start menu\Programs including sorting items as well!

I am *sure* this commercial shareware crap doesn't offer all the features of the Start menu (shift+click to retain, double click to open the folder) yet they manage to rip off poor customers or should I say victims who fall to the "scam".

We all know that @lindy is at the farthest point from being a genius. As are you @jaxjaguar

@jaxjaguar: I am off topic? Are you new here? Off topic is the number one topic on the site. And that includes Paul's uncontrollably incessant posts about all things that are NOT Mircosoft.

Going on along the lines of this post's title ".... for a price".. here's more evidence of Microsoft ripping people off: www.computerworld.com/.../article.do

In other words, Microsoft is charging a higher MS-TAX in other parts of the world.

joe:

Can you at least read the comments to the article you linked. Like jaxjaguar said, "harping on about it with no insight and only because it’s a story that is currently portraying MSFT in a negative fashion" isn't helpful for making Mac/Apple look better.

@mike:

I'd like to see a 64-bit kernel run on a 32-bit processor too (ie. Core [1] Duo Mac's).

"$25 for that?!?! And Apple are only charging $29 for a minor update to the OS. Microsoft? $219.99 for their minor update."

So wrong on so many counts.

As Mike pointed out, unless you already paid for the Leopard upgrade, only then will you get the $29 pricing.  And new Macs purchased now will nickel and dime you with the 9.99 fee, excuse me, tax, to get SL.  And if you are still using that old PowerPC that you and your ilk like to clamor about how it still runs great and everything, the 6 GB of saved disk space in your SL install will be of little consequence for those users that are now forced to pay the tax, excuse me, ransom, to upgrade to a new Mac.  Even with all of the hubbub you guys always make about how the newest Mac OS works great on your old Mac.  Where are those voices now?

And where are you getting the $219?  Oh, you mean the Ultimate upgrade?  Unless you have some business or other specific purpose, Ultimate or Professional are not needed.  The Premium upgrade for $49.99 will do just fine.  And with the Micro Center pricing, I was able to get a voucher to upgrade for only $39.99, really deflating your MS tax argument.

rj, no complaining about the memory tax that Apple charges?  Surely you should complain about it.  And while I know you won't admit that here, answer me this.  When you order a new Mac when your dad allows, do you buy the memory from Apple or go to another source?  If you go to another source, you obviously feel that you are being overcharged, and prefer not to pay the "tax", excuse me, VAT.

"See: blogs.zdnet.com/Bott for his comparison"

If Offline Files is as useful as I think it is, I really hope my company upgrades to Windows 7.

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