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Those mockups are indeed gorgeous! I really like how the Vista/7 and XP Royale themes look.

One thing that I don't like about the Vista/7 tabs is that tabs translucency, it's kind of hard to read the title of the background tabs, but Aero/Glass was implemented nicely.

When I saw these shots yesterday, I couldn't help but notice a lot of IE7/8 in the Windows XP Firefox 3.7 mockups. Not including the Tools/Page button (those buttons seem out of place), I'd say the Windows XP Firefox 3.7 mockup was a IE8-like theme. Looks nice though!

What more security holes !?

First 3.5, which was so riddled with holes they had to come out with a point one release 3.5.1 and now 3.7.

Internet Explorer is the only browser that runs in Protected Mode limiting any attacker to the browsing session and sandbox. Stop IE, clear the History and restart and the malware attempt is gone.

BTW, IE 8 already has translucent Back and Forward buttons.

@RAAJ,

On topic...new mockup looks nice...

Sorry to start with the off topic comments, but this required a response...

Are you KIDDING that you took issue that I said iPod Touch / iPhone came out first and that you point to a prototype that eventually BECAME the Surface as your proof?

Maybe it is YOU that needs to do some research, before making comments.....Surface, as of now, is a JOKE!  How many have you seen?  How many people use it on a regular basis?  You give credit to a PROTOTYPE that didn't even debut for real for another 2 years the credit?!

It is the iPhone / iPod Touch that has, or is, changing the way people interact with computers on a daily basis, not the Surface, and THAT was the point.

Yes, believe it or not, something that Apple has produced is more successful than something MS produced (at least so far)...I don't understand why you freaks (not just you RAAJ) have such a hard time swallowing that pill...as if it makes any difference on a personal level.

Looks a lot like my streamlined theme:

http://bayimg.com/mACcAaACM

Menus are available by right clicking somewhere over the buttons.

Ummmm. Paul?

You "won't get [your] hopes up again" but you'll put out a blog post on a mockup of a possible future version's UI?

Maybe it would be a little less silly to demonstrate not getting your hopes up by actually waiting to see a real UI rather than a mock up before saying how wonderful it will be.

Whilst my default browser is IE8, I have Firefox 3.5.1 installed to check compatibility with a couple of websites that I've built and continue to maintain. To make the Firefox experience tolerable, I've installed Glasser and an IE8 theme on it. :)

Wow...

MikeGalos......

Agreed.

I agree with mikegalos, here...but give Paul a break...he's in Amsterdam...doing what they do in Amsterdam!!!   ;-)

So much for things not slowing down here, I guess. But again, the brain tends to slow when doing what they do in Amsterdam!

Hope you are having fun, Paul!

--tayme

"he's in Amsterdam...doing what they do in Amsterdam"

Those aren't peanuts in your brownies - they're seeds.  

Seeds aren't nice.

BTW: What happened to 3.6???

Thanks for the acknowledgement, Paul.  You mention the theme on Mac OS X - were you referring to the current theme or is there a mockup of 3.7 for it?

Also, with what theme do you replace the default Firefox 3.5 chrome?

mmmmmm. Yum. Finally people are starting to take advantage of the Windows UI

I really like the general feel of the mockup theme, but I really wish they'd get rid of that silly-looking keyhole...thing. symmetrical-ish back and forward buttons were much more aesthetically pleasing. Thank goodness for small icons mode.

The Tools item also looks very strange with the curves on the right side appearing completely out of place.

Otherwise, it's very smooth and with a little cleanup could be a very appealing choice.

@Waethorn

FireFox 3.6 didn't meet Mozilla's very open very loose by committee security requirments of less than 550 known unpatched holes, so they threw it in the trash bin. At Mozilla it's safety first (after themeing and plug-ins of course) ... crack standards will always mean some sacrifice.

So with Firefox 3.7 are we finally going to get hotfixing on the program or is this going to be another full version download?

This is why businesses don't like Firefox (and most other non-IE browsers) - they can't make a stable build to sit on for even a minute and just patch it in place.  Instead we have continuing bug fixes that require full downloads, along with web standards support updates that change from build to build.

Waethorn,

You made that same kind of remark when they release 3.5.1...claiming that they don't have the ability to do a Windows Update type of update.

Yet, my Firefox updates and downloads the updates by itself...yours doesn't?  Or do you just not use it and assume that it requires going to the site to download the whole thing?

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panache

"MikeGalos......

Agreed."

OK. Time to see if the 2010 Winter Olympics have been moved from Vancouver, BC to Hell.

:-)

"At Mozilla it's safety first (after themeing and plug-ins of course)"

So....it's safety last then.

"You made that same kind of remark when they release 3.5.1...claiming that they don't have the ability to do a Windows Update type of update."

It's still a full download.

It's also not manageable out of the box.  You need third party software to do that, plus it doesn't work with WSUS (without a LOT of custom back-end work).

Just making a point why IE is favoured among businesses.

MikeGalos,

LOL!!  Funny guy!

Waethorn,

Explain to me, whether it is a full download or not, how an automatic update feather, that checks for updates by itself, and has the option to install it on its own or ask the user what to do, requires third party software?  It comes included...I never installed any third party software to auto update FireFox.

*** That should have said feature, not feather....  

Also...Waethorn, to be clear, I am not doubting whether or not IE is preferred over FireFox in business for whatever reason.  I honestly couldn't care less.  My point is that it does have an autoupdate feature that does not require some third party download...

Unless you are referring to the fact that the browser has the feature itself (which would make it the third party software you refer to), and it's not part of Windows Update?

@panache1023: Ok I begin to understand now ... When it is in the Apple advantage, you take in count when it begin the prototype of a thing to consider that they invent this thing but when it is at the advantage of Microsoft we cannot take in count the time they begin prototyping a thing...

Hey come-on ...

First prototype of Surface is been done in 2001... Do all the research you want, this is the reality....

So this is not apple that begin to work on touch screen technologies...so...

Another thing... Is there any support off Multi-Touch technologies supported on MacOS X right now?? NO! Windows 7 fully support it.... So stop to always get your eyes on your navel!!! If you take up your head a little you will see that it exist a world around you... A world that do things... a world where Apple is not necessarily the center...

EricoF3,

If YOU'D do some research, you'd find that touchscreen technologies were being looked into way before 2001, so it wasn't MS that invented it.

Again, I didn't say that Apple INVENTED it, I said THEIR INVENTION is what is changing how people are interacting with computers.

Take off your ridiculous "MS is everything, all other companies are nothing" blinders and try to understand what I said before you put words in my mouth.

Also, there *IS* multitouch support in Mac OS X RIGHT NOW.  Just because it isn't on the SCREEN, but rather the touch pad, doesn't mean it doesn't exist...so again, YOU should do some research.

Just because you hate Apple more than life itself, don't act is if I am some pro-Apple, anti-MS cheerleader....stop painting everyone with the same brush...I actually like MS a lot.

What I don't like is this "it wasn't Apple, it was MS" attitude of YOURS...using SURFACE as an example of changing how people interact with computers when the iPhone's been in the REAL WORLD with millions of people EVERYDAY using it, and Surface is...well......just not that great right now (at least from what I got to try in the casino I used it in), and not that "ubiquitous"...

So please...maybe YOU need to lift your head a little bit and you'll see that there is a whole world around you where Microsoft is not necessarily the center!

@panache:

To get manageable updates, you need third-party software.  It allows for some integration into AD, but very limited integration at that.  It doesn't work with WSUS.  There is no other way to get manageable updates.  The auto-update feature is never used by businesses because they need to manage user PC's and any proper business with an IT staff doesn't let users install their own software.

This is also the reason why Chrome will not be adopted by businesses until Google accepts the requirements for trustworthy installation and installs into the permission-restricted Program Files folder, instead of the user space, to which IT firms don't usually (and shouldn't need to) lock down.

Software should NEVER be installed with only user rights.  It should ALWAYS require administrative rights to install.

Waethorn,

I think I finally see the point you've been trying to make....It took you a little while to make it clear, but this time I think you nailed it.

@panache1023: firstly I don't hate Apple, I thing they do great stuff ... The only thing I told is that you think Apple is everything... and this IS NOT TRUE... There is not just APPLE THAT DO COOL THINGS IN THE WORLD.... OPEN YOU EYESSSS....

And I know touch screen technologies exist for a long time now ... I JUST TOLD THAT MICROSOFT FIRSTLY BEGIN TO WORK ON A UI THE MAINLY BE CONTROL BUY MULTI-TOUCHING THE SCREEN .....

You now panache1023, you can take all what I say and changing the word 'Microsoft' by the word 'Apple' if you want but ... even of this, Microsoft continue to own 95% of the market... Yes may be Apple release a product with touch screen technology ... May be Apple will come with a touch screen technology on a toaster soon... and Yes Apple do really cool things... And Yes I really like Apple stuff... This is Mac user that always talk about that like it is a religion ... The only thing I try to do is to tell there is other good company that do good stuff and No this is not true that these company always steel these technologies from Apple...

@panache1023: and don't tell me that I am wrong because Bell Lab begin to work on its multi-touch screen technologies in 1983 ... Because I know that...

I just told that Microsoft begin to work on this kind of system before Apple ... And Apple get this technology be acquisition, not because they do research.... so...

Would look best with the leaked black or Zune XP theme. Black browsing!! Hope they give the ability to disable the drag and drop functionality of the awesome bar in the URL text area too because that's why I avoid Firefox.

@All : Sorry I should not scream... I know my English writing is not really good, as I am a French, and when I scream I do much more writing mistakes...

Sorry for all that but panache is really annoy me with is really really important navel.

EricoF3,

You are completely missing the point.

Your arguments are typical of a MS fanboy... "MS owns 95% of the OS market" blah blah blah...

The point is that iPhone / iPod Touch is changing how people interact with their computers NOW...not Surface...REGARDLESS of who prototyped it first.

Why you can't understand that is just you not WANTING to accept reality.

Surface, right now is a JOKE...iPhone / iPod Touch are being used by MILLIONS of people DAILY.

Yeah, I'd like to see an XP w/ Zune Theme version of the UI, and it seems to mimic a lot of the IE7/IE8 look and feel... still, I really like the direction they're taking for it.

@panache1023 : YOU are missing the point!! The point about that was related to the last Paul's subject "Are we entering a post-Microsoft world?" ... I told about that, I think we will be in a Microsoft world until a company changes the interaction people have with a computer by presenting a new approach...

And I tell that there is a good chance this new approach will be presented by Microsoft...

This is the only thing I told.... After I told "think to Sufface" as a possibility this new approach will revolutionize the interaction people have with computers... But It is just a suggestion not a fact ... I talked about Surface because I cannot actually see another existing technology that have the potential to revolutionize the computer world interaction... But maybe it will not, probably not ... Or probably something other will come...

This is the only thing I told...

@panache1023: the only thing I don't understand is why you always tell that Surface is a joke??

Microsoft have 120 unit all around the world in corporate specific emplacement like AT&T stores, Casino, Restaurent, etc... and people seems to like the experience so ... I don't understand you...

Why don't you like the Surface experiences?

Concerning Firefox updates, the method they use is fine for a home user.  The download is indeed smaller than the full installer, and it does it very unobtrusively, especially with 3.0 and above.

However, a long glaring omission by them has been the lack of an officially supported MSI.  Wouldn't it be nice to have an MSI that you could deploy easily, with your custom settings intact, and apply MSP's when updates happen, and only when they are tested?  And not have each client have to use valuable bandwidth contacting the Mozilla servers.  Quite frankly this has been a long missed opportunity that they could have experienced a lot larger marketshare if they had done this.  Heck, even Adobe gives you MSI and a customization utility.  Mozilla and Sun, are you listening?

"You "won't get [your] hopes up again" but you'll put out a blog post on a mockup of a possible future version's UI?"

Ah, give Paul a break. I took it as tounge in cheek. After all, his exact quote was:

"I won't get my hopes up again. But here's to hoping they make this happen."

It was funny.

I don't know how this got in to a side discussion about Surface, but many seem to be under the delusion that Surface is supposed to be some consumer deployed device, and because you haven't seen one (that you know of), that it is an automatic failure.  The target market, as EricoF3 states, is stores, hotels and the like.  As you probably can imagine, these all require sort of a custom implementation of them in order to make them work for that vertical.

Since EricoF3's native language is obviously not English, perhaps he's not explaining the point, which I read as loud and clear.  Fans like to trumpet about how "innovative" Apple is, forgetting the purchasing of technology that goes in to many of their products.  Which is normal and fine, as MS does it all the time too (as well as has their extensive research arm).  However, Apple fans think that all innovation begins with Steve Jobs and is passed down like commandments.

EricF03,

You just made my point exactly...in a question "are we entering a post microsoft world", you mention changing the interaction with computers....you say it may be accomplished by a company like MS (which is might)..and then you use Surface as the example.

Any way you look at it, the iPhone/iPod Touch multi-touch experience is doing that RIGHT NOW...*THAT* was my point which you keep missing...which was the Surface was a BAD example.

You ask why I feel Surface is a joke?  I used it in a casino.  The few applications it had on it were useles.....a photo manipulating program...it was cool to kind of fling pictures across the table....a bowling game, which I felt was not very responsive....and some map of the area...again, kind of useless.

The multi touch experience that you get on an iPod Touch, right now, is more useful and just "felt" better than what the Surface unit I used had to offer *at this time*.

Once again, millions of units of iPhone/iPod Touch are changing how people interact with their devices (computers)..compared to the over 120 you say MS has....

So, this is why, *AS OF RIGHT NOW* Surface is a joke....

Wow...panache1023 and EricF03....give it up. Is it really that important? You sound like a couple of schoolboys arguing about their favorite sprots team in the school yard. Move on, already!

--tayme

Dipsht,

That was not the point.  No one (here) is confusing the target market for Surface.

The point he made was that MS may be the company that changes how people interact with their computer, and he used Surface as the example.

I got flack for saying it was funny that he used Surface as the example when Apple had the iPhone out first...at which point I was told to do research that MS had demoed a prototype back in 2005 or something....

The point I was trying to make was not who was trying to invent Multitouch devices out first...but rather that Apple already HAD BEEN doing what EricF03 said MS would do with Surface...

Regardless of when it was prototyped, iPhone was changing how people interact with their computers before Surface had a chance to.

I don't know how anyone can dispute this?  Many more people. a day interact with iPhone or iPod Touch than Surface...which is exactly the thing EricF03 was saying MS would do with Surface...

This whole thing is ridiculous at this point.

It comes down to most people on this board thinking that if Apple is successful with something, it's because MS did it first...or they don't like to see something Apple is successful at...or something...

geez, what the hell is wrong with you people?!

@panache1023: OK, I understand you but I talk about something in the future not what already exists ... So may be the Surface example is not a good one ...

I don't really know if touch screen technology will really change peoples habits ... I don't think the iPhone will change anything ... Because it is a little device that people want to have in their pocket but they don't really use... Or they used it a little as we can use a Cell phone ... Play a little game when waiting at the doctor clinic but ... I rather mean something that will change the interaction people have with the Desktop computers...

I don't know may be you're right... I don't know...

Ho I think I catch... you insinuate that we are in a post Microsoft world because Apple changes the way people interact with their Cell Phone... Nop be serious... Cell phone is joke ... Who need touch screen technology in a 3 inches screen?? This is ridiculous...

I don't talk about gadget here I talk about really Computer ... I mean Desktop computer...

@ tayme : you are right lololo

@ panache1023: So Apple just prepare the land for the arrival of Surface...

In 10 years all home will have a Surface table in their living room...

panache1023 : "... trying to invent Multitouch devices out first...but rather that Apple already HAD BEEN doing what EricF03 said ..."

I think compare Surface with the iPhone is a little abusive... Don't you think?

"panache is really annoy me with is really really important navel."

Can someone please translate that? What does "really really important navel" mean?

@panache:

There was the auto-update stuff, but also the fact that they can't sit still on a single build and just hotfix it.

Businesses look for stability, and the constant big changes to the Firefox codebase is what's keeping it from being adopted.  If they stuck with a "Firefox 3" codebase and just did binary hotfixes in place to fix security holes and stability issues (like that RAM leak in FF1-2.5), and if they just stuck with a set standard level of HTML compliancy for the duration of that codebase, businesses would feel confident about using it without worrying that a new version would all of a sudden break their company intranet or webapps.

Instead, Mozilla, and the open source community in general, want to tinker with every aspect of it at all times.  That makes for a bad troubleshooting environment when something goes wrong too.

To note, it's the same problem with every non-IE browser out there.

Opera is the same way, as is Chrome.

When a point release breaks web apps, the web browser developer needs to SLOW DOWN, and fix security flaws and critical stability problems for a while.

@lotsamystuff : "Can someone please translate that? What does "really really important navel" mean?"

This is a reference to a french expression : "Se prendre pour le nombril du monde" - That mean a person think they are the center of the universe.

@lotsamystuff

Has I see, lotsamystuff scrutinize in details the discussion I have with panache1023... lololo

@waethorn WSUS sucks beyond belief, but its free.  Shavlik patches FF, and Safari, (and lots more) and is 100% better, or more, than WSUS, but its not free.

www.shavlik.com/shavlik-product-coverage-thermometer.aspx

Control FF, in a AD enviroment all day....for free.  In fact those ADM files give you more control over FF than MS gives you over IE.

www.frontmotion.com/.../features.htm

But what do I know, I suck at IT.  Maybe I should quit my corp IT job and move to Canada and open a clone PC store, and eat at Rotten Ronnies so I can squirt songs to other Zune's, all 3 of them.

OT:  Those laptop hunter ads are killing Apple....

www.appleinsider.com/.../apple_profits_rise_15_on_sales_of_2_6m_macs_5_2m_iphones.html

I wonder if that phone call really happened?  

"What does "really really important navel" mean?"

Why don't you sit and contemplate yours for awhile.

"In 10 years all home will have a Surface table in their living room... "

God I hope not.  I have no interest in "grubbing up" my computer screen with my (and others') fingerprint smudge marks TYVM.  The Project Natal  stuff looks much more interesting.

So does the Office Plex stuff, as well as Thumbtack and Canvas for OneNote.

@All

I suspect that there is much more people here that follow in detail the discussion I have with panache than the number of people that follow the official subject ...

pfff... Paul will shot me when he will read all this...

"WSUS sucks beyond belief, but its free.  Shavlik patches FF, and Safari, (and lots more) and is 100% better, or more, than WSUS, but its not free."

It's barely 100% better.  It costs lots of money but it's hardly much better.  A good IT person wouldn't recommend a company to move to an unstable codebase such as Firefox, and especially not Safari.

I'd rather use WSUS in a managed environment using SCCM & SCOM anyway, but most of my clients are using it from a managed SBS environment which provides simplified manageability and is ready-to-go out of the box.  It costs nothing over the regular deployment costs either.

"In fact those ADM files give you more control over FF than MS gives you over IE."

Sorry but that's NOT EVEN CLOSE!

"But what do I know, I suck at IT."

Finally we agree.

"Paul will shot me when he will read all this..."

If he doesn't care about losta spouting off about someone jerkin' it, he won't care about a little O/T post.

@mikegalos

Agreed that I would rather wait to see the real UI than mockups that may or may not eventuate, but hey they do look nice.

"OT:  Those laptop hunter ads are killing Apple...."

LOL...for sure, "lindy". Why, just the other day over on his WinInformant site, Paul told us Apple's sales were tanking because they don't compete in the netbook market, and that "When the economy goes south, so do sales of unnecessary and expensive gadgets. And that, dear reader, is pretty much Apple's core business".

But in reality Paul was WRONG. It turns out that his "news" was guided by ideology rather than facts. Say it ain't so.

"Apple sold 2.6 million Macs during the quarter, representing a four percent unit increase over the year-ago quarter and the best ever June quarter in its history for personal computer sales."

Waethorn, that sound you're hearing in your head is called "cognitive dissonance".

"Waethorn, that sound you're hearing in your head is called "cognitive dissonance"."

I thought that was the sound of you jerkin' it while reading Apple's financials.

Exactly the kind of witty retort I've come to expect from you, Wae. Your third-grade education is showing.

"Exactly the kind of witty retort I've come to expect from you, Wae. Your third-grade education is showing."

Ya, you know, it's such a switch from saying that someone is "masturbating while reading the dictionary", or calling someone a dipsh1t....

Wae, I should swim right past your bait, but if you'd like me to string together the various offensive and childish invective you've tossed my way over the years, I'd be happy to put together a list. You don't really want to go there, do you? Why don't you just go back to your basement and give "Helper Cat" a hand in assembling another FrankenPuter for one of your poor unsuspecting customers.?

losta, I'd say your cynicism has lost its wit, but then you never had it in the first place.

At least robertsjoe is laughable and doesn't expect anybody to take him seriously.  Some people do.

You, on the other hand, expect everybody to take you seriously, but nobody does.

"In fact those ADM files give you more control over FF than MS gives you over IE."

Sorry but that's NOT EVEN CLOSE!

Really have you even looked at what that ADM gives you?  Everything in about:config plus even more.

Also bitching about FF having to download the full package, 18meg? vs something like .NET 3.5 SP1 family update at 300+ meg is a joke.

WSUS is actually a good product for a typical SBS customer that has 10-20 PC's.  Auto approve all critcals and apply to all clients.

Looks pretty good. The current version looks dated in Windows 7. Chrome actually looks pretty good in 7.

"I should swim right past your bait, but if you'd like me to string together the various offensive and childish invective you've tossed my way over the years, I'd be happy to put together a list."

You must be a glutton for punishment then.  As they say: "Once a Mac user, always a sado-masochist".

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@shark47: Doesn't the Firefox 3 theme look the same in Vista and 7?

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"Because it is a little device that people want to have in their pocket but they don't really use"

I'm using my iPhone right now :)

I'm sitting on my back patio with a cold beer reading you two prattle on like a couple of poncy hair dressers.

Ain't technology great?

@shark47

"Looks pretty good. The current version looks dated in Windows 7. Chrome actually looks pretty good in 7."

Shark: stop trying to bring this sh1tshow back on topic. You'll kill the Yuks!

;)

@RunTimeError: Yes you used it but just a little... If not you have time to lose...loloolo

I'm joking :) I have a friend that has a iPhone and I must admit that it is a cool device and the web browser is really great for a little device with a little screen like that!! It is really better than IE on Windows Mobile, no comparison possible!! lololo ...

@shark47: Doesn't the Firefox 3 theme look the same in Vista and 7?

Yeah, I meant between XP and Vista/7. Chrome and IE8 look better in 7 than they do in XP. With FF, it's the reverse right now, at least in my opinion.

"I'm sitting on my back patio with a cold beer reading you two prattle on like a couple of poncy hair dressers."

In spite of how good browsing is on the iPhone/iTouch, I hate reading full web pages on them. A lightweight Netbook with Windows 7 would be decent enough for me.

I dunno.... I'm not keen on the design... lots of gaps between buttons and what not. IE 8 appears cleaner to me - underscoring the fact that tastes differ and what one describes as "gorgeous" another cares little for.

As Saucy points out, the real issues for many, including myself, center around the confidence one has in the browser’s security. IE 7/8 on Windows Vista and 7 for now, hold the clear

advantage. Default settings, branded as “Protected Mode” leverage securable objects and the UIPI within a least privileged mode insulating user space from undesired software.

Google’s Chrome, though it is credited inappropriately for providing a “sandbox” which is communicated as being unique, also makes use of Windows Vista/7 securable objects.

Without knowing fully (and that is the point), I trust Microsoft to use securable objects and the UIPI more effectively than Google and therefore trust IE 8 more.

Where performance is a non-issue now and appearance a subject and matter of taste, security and confidence matter a lot and a lot

OT, but fascinating:

"Tim Cook says the iPhone is selling particularly well with small business and corporate settings. “Almost 20% of the Fortune 100 have purchased at least 10,000 units or more …"

blogs.wsj.com/.../live-blogging-apple-earnings-2

Thanks for posting this Paul.  I for one love seeing this kind of stuff on your blog.  I hope they do bring out something that looks even close to this.

This really looks great, I hope they move to a theme like this in the next release.  

Waethorn:

"Businesses look for stability, and the constant big changes to the Firefox codebase is what's keeping it from being adopted."

I have been wondering whether this is what hampers a lot of open source stuff in the enterprise market.  It seems like a lot of projects are in constant flux.

Come to think of it, though, Ubuntu has a good idea where they do a LTS version every few years, and yet have more constant releases more inclined to consumers.  I don't know whether this matters much, though.

"It comes down to most people on this board thinking that if MS is successful with something, it's because Apple did it first...or they don't like to see something MS is successful at...or something..."

panache, it goes both ways, as this statement was reversed and it is just as true.

"geez, what the hell is wrong with you people?!"

Indeed.  Where is that kettle?

Dipsht,

I completely disagree with you!  You reversed that statement and it is only true for the fringe freaks like Robertsjoe or Ocean.

"I wonder if that phone call really happened?"

They haven't denied it yet, so as far as I'm concerned, it did happen.  Do you really think that El Stevo would let something like this slide?

FWIW, I use WSUS and don't have the budget for a patching solution.  And I have more than 10-20 PC's.  WSUS works quite well for what it is, but it is not meant to compete with a full blown patching solution.

And you proved my point by listing that alternative MSI and ADM solution.  It is not officially provided by Mozilla.  On top of that, they are behind the curve.  No MSI for 3.5.1, or for 3.0.11.  Truthfully, it's a kludge.  A nice one, and one that I might investigate, but it is still a kludge.

"Auto approve all critcals"

Not the best advice.  Even with my bogged down days, I realize the importance of testing patches and I dogfood each patch and new piece of software before it is to be distributed.  Auto approval is a big no-no.

"I thought that was the sound of you jerkin' it while reading Apple's financials."

LOL.  That was a good one.  I picture RJ like Randy Marsh on the no-Internet episode of South Park.  When he finally was able to view the financial report...

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