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I think it's rediculous that MS have to resort to these steps because of the EU (and I do live within the EU).

When will we see the Apple Mac ballot screen for Safari, Firefox, Opera and IE? And it will be interesting to see the same on the Google Chrome OS!

This clearly isn't helping users, especially novices, to use their computers. Expert users will already know which browser they're going to use, and novices will just be confused and bewildered.

Personally, I think we should all thank (and boycot) Opera for stirring this up.

(rant over)

I think it's ridiculous to see this as well, HOWEVER, seeing the actual proposal I'm a little more content with it knowing that the descriptions are coming straight from the respective browser's own home page descriptions, AND everything is spelled out for the user in a clear, concise way.

Oh, and btw... there's no need to boycott Opera... the world has been boycotting them since they were founded, lol... why else would their market share be so pathetically low? :)

I know this in only a mockup, but you can see Opera trying really hard here with their description - *way* longer than the other browsers.... Really smacks of "Look at me! Look at me!"....

I really hope that this does nothing to improve Opera's usage - I mean complaining about the Logos now? I just don't think they'd ever be happy

Ah, but Opera have already put in a complaint that Microsoft shouldn't be allowed to use the "blue e" IE logo as "its so associated with the internet in users minds"!

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The logo complaint is silly at best. It IS their logo. It's as stupid as if Linux community would try to forbid use of "Windows" name/logo as it is "associated with operating system in users minds".. Stupid, really.

What the h*** does Opera want?  I mean, they are just complaining about everything.  Soon they will start microanylizing the pixel count.

So basically all they are doing is setting the ballot as the first page seen when launching IE for the first time. Very simple for MS to set up and it doesn't touch any Windows components.

I'm actually surprised that Opera hasn't demanded that it remain as the permanent home page for IE.

Why is Internet Explorer FIRST? Kidding...., just kidding.

But, I'll bet there will be discussions on the design of this ballot page to rival the shape of the table for the Paris peace negotiations. More silliness to follow, I'm sure of it.

Has anyone noticed the typos on the ballot screen?  I know its just a mockup, but jeez.

It's easy to see why this will be done only in the EU - the complexity of it will obviously make the brains of non-EU computer users bleed.

Let's thank MS for fighting to protect us from equal-access browser choice.

So how long do you think it will take to implement the above? A day to write and a week of testing?

"Soon they will start microanylizing the pixel count."

Best. Comment. Ever.

"What the h*** does Opera want?"

What they really want is for Opera to be the default and no other choice offered. Anything less than that is a compromise.

doharrow,

And once again, here is the explanation.

When Apple gains a monopoly in the OS space, and gets convicted of using that monopoly to squelch competition in the OS and applications market, THEN you will see the EU or some other regulatory body require Apple to use a Ballot screen.

Until those conditions occur, I don't think it will be happening.

I don't know what all the fuss is about. Everyone will be presented with the screen and everyone knowing that IE8 is the best browser in the world will select  it to install. A minor inconvenience to all those intelligent people who recognize that competition is meaningless when it comes to MS products.

@panache1023

You could argue that Apple DOES have a monopoly as the OS manufacturer for Apple based hardware (now that it is possible to install Windows and indeed Linux on Apple hardware)

Anyway, I'm not sure how the arguement about stiffling competition stacks up these days when all the browsers are now FREE - I mean, since Opera started giving away their browser didn't they have to change their tune from it being about "costing them lost revenue" (a very selfish, corporate attitude) to increasing "consumer choice", which may on the surface is all very "nobile" of them, but is still essentially the same self serving corporate idea repackaged.

I actually had no problem with Opera before this debacle, but this has left a bad taste in my mouth about them and their browser. I don't care if their CTO was the man who created the CSS standard (and maybe that is one of the things driving their feeling of "entitlement")... I mean if they want more market share, then build and market better brower!! Firefox managed to get a real foothold in an IE dominated market - and they did it without having to go wailing like babies to the EU (even though they did get in on the complaint - they already had a sizable market share by then)

Frankly, the idea of companies fighting like this over products which are just given away for free seems just ridiculous to me

Well, doesn't Google also have an advantage also with it being THE search engine on the Web? Wouldn't people think Google = Web?

This is so stupid! I really can't wait for this to rolled out a Opera get eggs on its face when people still choose other browsers.

I love how the other browsers have a shorter description than Opera's. Opera's description should just be "PLEASE USE OUR BROWSER!!!"

I love Opera's mobile browser, but this is just unreal, and reeks of a company that just wont  even try to compete in the marketplace.It is just beyond silly and insults the intelligence of all the people they think they will win over by forcing MS to do this.

No Desktop Opera for me.

The big irony here is that Opera is posturing that they're just trying to fight for the choice of consumers.Most of who (whatever their tech-savvyness) probably would rather not to have to choose in the first place...

People who aren't that tech-savvy - the folk who may not even know what a browser is (or even care) are just going to get confused... To them this ballot window is an added confusion - and it just seems like Opera is trying to prosper by that confusion!

Anyone who knows about this stuff has probably already made their mind up which is their prefered browser... To them this ballot screen is an annoyance, and just another thing to click away during initial OS installation (or new machine purchase)

So they're either causing an annoyance to tech-savvy people (you can already feel that from blogs like this), or trying to confuse non-tech folk into installing their browser

I love that Opera's logo looks like a big ZERO, just like the loser company.  Maybe they should hire Darl McBride, I'm sure he could help then file a few more law suit to try to keep the company afloat.

Hope people don't download an alternative browser thinking it is supported from Microsoft because of that ballot screen.

"I love that Opera's logo looks like a big ZERO, just like the loser company."

Number 1 mobile browser.

Ed Botts latest.  I'm sure Paul will blog it soon:  blogs.zdnet.com/Bott

"Earlier today, Microsoft announced pricing and delivery details for a pair of eagerly awaited products in the Windows 7 family. If you were hoping for upgrade bargains or a long-term commitment to multi-PC upgrade pricing, prepare to be disappointed."

"I mean if they want more market share, then build and market better brower!! "

Arguably, MS did that with the Zune, but nobody came for it.

It's more than just being the best.

In Pauls latest WinInfo he says this:

"Unlike some pundits, I don't think Microsoft is doomed. "

I think this is a strawman.  Who are the pundits that think that MS is doomed?

Ya with browsers in that order I doubt many would click on Opera. Maybe they shouldn't have charged for their browser way back in the past.

All this silliness from Opera makes me reluctant to use their mobile browser if I get the Blackberry I'm considering. They are acting like a spoiled child who can't get their way.

As michaelkpate said, "What they really want is for Opera to be the default and no other choice offered. Anything less than that is a compromise. " I couldn't agree more.

@Ocean

"Arguably, MS did that with the Zune, but nobody came for it."

Well, I can't argue with the fact that the Zune may be better than the competition (as I've never actually used one), but MS's marketing of the Zune has been *woeful* - I've *never* seen any kind of meaningful marketing of the Zune - online, TV, radio or any medium

doharrow

You will not see a Mac OS X ballot screen offering Internt Explorer. There is no Internet Explorer for current Mac OS X versions. (Microsoft wisely retired from the lists when Safari appeared.) Apple's (hypothetical) ballot screen would include OmniWeb.

Apple makes Firefox available on its downloads page. Currently shown as #7 of the top downloads. OmniWeb and Opera are also there (Opera is a "Staff Pick").

Does Microsoft do this? (Not being sarcastic--I don't know.)

Does Microsoft do that?

Not sure how the Zune crept into this thread, but--I like mine. I like the Zune store. I listen to the MacBreak netcast on my Zune or in the Zune software. (I suspect not many MacBreak listeners do that.)

Again, why isn't Ocean kicked off this blog for a week or so with his off topic postings?

It is beyond me why he/she isn't bounced!

great, at this rate, in about a week we'll get a snark-tacular post from paul about microsoft yahoo search deal.  

"Well, I can't argue with the fact that the Zune may be better than the competition (as I've never actually used one), but MS's marketing of the Zune has been *woeful* - I've *never* seen any kind of meaningful marketing of the Zune - online, TV, radio or any medium"

Well, thats my point.  Opera could make the worlds greatest browser and it still could go nowhere.

@Ocean

Well, that was actually my original point:

"build and MARKET a better brower"

2 separate actions.... IMHO, this ridiculousness with the EU could have a totally negative impact on the Opera browser and act as the worst kind of marketting - like I said, I for one would now not touch it with a bargepole

@Muzo1234

Well, that was actually my original point:

"build and MARKET a better brower"

How much marketing did MS need to get their share of the browser market?  If you were to ask Opera 'What if your market share goes down now?' their reply would be something along the lines of 'at least it is going down in a fair market'.

@Ocean

I don't recall this being about the mobile browser.

Doesn't change the fact they are still a loser company because they feel they can strong arm their way back into a market where they failed to compete.

I don't know how Zune got in to the discussion, but by loose analogy, this would be like MS asking the courts to force Apple to let the Zune sync with iTunes.  This, of course, would make MS a loser company.

Compete or die.

Opera is a bunch of losers.

"Compete or die."

Or, complete a deal with Yahoo to get you to a marketshare you wouldn't have had for years, if ever.

This is interesting:  State Dept. to Clinton: Please let us use Firefox

news.cnet.com/8301-13505_3-10287084-16.html

Paul:

Can you kick that retard off again?

Apparently he's too moronic to have understood the reason why he was booted THE LAST TIME.

Ocean, maybe all caps will be easier for your stupid @ss to read:

THIS TOPIC IS ABOUT:

((((((Microsoft's proposed browser ballot screen ))))))

NOT ABOUT HILLARY CLINTON, FIREFOX, ED BOT OR WHATEVER THE H3LL IS ON OCEANS BORD MIND OR WHATEVER LITTLE ANTI-MS BS YOU HAPPEN TO COME ACROSS.

And Paul, can you make it permanent this time? People like this do not need to be rewarded with posting privileges if the cant seem to show any respect for you or this site.

Master,

It's about the browsers in the screen above.  Some talk IE, others Opera, others Firefox.

Have a nice weekend.

"this would be like MS asking the courts to force Apple to let the Zune sync with iTunes"

Considering that iTunes is garbage, that would be inconsiderate to their [Microsoft's] customers.

"Opera could make the worlds greatest browser and it still could go nowhere."

I think it's unfair for them to be allowed to claim that they give "the best browser experience available".

I'm wondering what Apple has to say about that.  ;)

"Or, complete a deal with Yahoo to get you to a marketshare you wouldn't have had for years, if ever."

You forget that Google wanted to buy out Yahoo before, to shut out any possible competition, be it from Microsoft or otherwise, but they backed down because regulators wouldn't have it.

"Under our new proposal, among other things, European consumers who buy a new Windows PC with Internet Explorer set as their default browser would be shown a ‘ballot screen’ from which they could, if they wished, easily install competing browsers from the Web."

I don't quite understand something about this though....

I thought that OEM's wouldn't have any kind of restrictions on this, and they'd be able to install whatever they want.  Is the EU now saying that OEM's now have to let default IE installations advertise the other products?

This spells a major support disaster for OEM's that would likely be expected to support all the options that are provided to end users.

I know I would never agree to that.  What is installed on the computer from the factory is MY choice.  I don't care to advertise alternatives.  If a user chooses any additional software, I would relinquish software support to the end user.

Master, you're going to ask that a lot of people be banned.

Would this mean that Microsoft would have to provide update to all the browsers through Windows Update if you chose a browser that's not IE?

@waethorn

"I don't quite understand something about this though...."

and as usual this does not stop you blundering on.

This does not affect OEMs. They can already put on what they like. 0 browsers, 20 browsers, zero support or sit on your knee and cuddle you, they have the option.

@Ocean

"Master, you're going to ask that a lot of people be banned."

Good. Start with you and work your way up.

"Good. Start with you and work your way up."

I doubt it's ever going  to happen Master3. Not long ago I wrote a long and serious post about the trolling issue and disrespectful attitude of some members.

I have seen litle support from fellow members to push for a solution and what's worse is that above all Paul don't seem to give (excuse my blunt langauage)  a *** at all, he never responded to my post or to me personally and never showed any intention that I know of to improve the current situation.

I can tell you one thing; it's a quick way to lose my respect for Paul Thurrot, which I did have.

Its sad that such a beautiful medium like internet (remember the days when we didn't have the internet!!  We at  IT only got drivers on floppy by regular mail!) is abused by some many sad individuals as their boxing ball for issues in their personal life...sigh

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"In the shot above, the browsers are listed by usage/market share, with IE first."

You're in fact incorrect. The first icon is of IE8. Firefox has a larger market share than IE8.

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