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I installed a Win7 Home Pro on a new Asus Notebook which had Vista preinstalled on it (I did not go through the initial vista setup).

The Home Pro disc was not an upgrade. I deleted the preinstalled partitions and installed win7 without a CD Key.

After installing all applications, I tried to activate windows with my family-pack CD Key. That did not work; I got a message that I did not do an upgrade install, which was true.

After talking to Microsoft, they assured me that I have to have an activated OS on the PC and start the installation from this OS. However it is possible to delete the partition of the old OS when installing win7 and do a fresh install this way.

The problem is that I cannot reinstall the vista that came with the notebook; I do not have any installation discs! So Microsoft suggests ordering the installation discs from asus, install vista, activate vista, and reinstall win7 and all applications....

I hate you microsoft.

Does anybody know if you can modify the EI.CFG file to create an Upgrade disc?  Or convert an Upgrade disc to Full Version?

whew Chris, what a trainwreck odyssey.  Sure seems like a lot of pain and expense for a dock.

I just heard Ballmer say on Engadget that MS is gonna do hardware and software together, because that would bring innovation.

OMFG? Does this guy really live in the past? HELLO??? Apple has been doing this for ages.

You never were able to use a upgrade key with a  full retail copy as far as I can recall. I always clone my drive before doing a new install regardless of the OS.

Not defending MS stupid multiple version nonsense but blowing away old partitions without copying them is always risky.

According to what some are writing, VLK media (which is upgrade-only) is not bootable whatsoever.  That means you can't install on a blank drive.

I'm curious to know if you could run it from a Windows PE bootable disc tho....

Does Windows PE identify itself as being activated or not?  Or is that completely stripped out of PE?

@Chris:

Sorry, but "RTFM" has to be said.  Using a product key for a disc that doesn't match is completely your fault.  Not following the instructions for the Upgrade media is also your fault.

@Waethorn: is right here!!

yeah Chris!  how dare you try to install your properly licensed operating system the same way it's been done for 20 yrs, how stupid are you?  I believe you have to have the right license/disc/phase of moon and 800 Live points before you can even halfway expect to have a fresh install of Windows7 working.  You tell him, Erico and Waethorn, tell him he needs to learn to enjoy frustration and challenge as a badge of honor of being a windows user.

You can't use a blank drive for upgrading, that is why it is called upgrading, even Apple doesn't allow this. But I just got my $30 Professional upgrade for my desktop, and all I had was win 7 RC on it and I used custom install from the set up folder and it worked fine, you can custom install and have a clean install.

@redunion1940 "...is called upgrading, even Apple doesn't allow this." That is totally true, except for the fact that it's false. The Snow Leopard Upgrade disc has been PROVEN time and again as being able to install on a blank drive without providing verification of a Leopard Install. Really, please, get the facts straight.

I thought you could use the upgrade disc with a clean hd, but then it prompts you to insert the Dell cd for example?

I see the Apple community is trying to make a final last stand. Good luck with that, while the rest of the world is switching to Windows 7. The internet now belongs to Microsoft... Macs are for 10 yr old kids, Macs are secretly manufactured by Disney :)

Well then danieldecker that defeats calling it a upgrade disc then.

I repeat you have to have a windows OS on your system, XP, Vista, 7RC, to upgrade, but you do not have to use the upgrade option, you can use custom install which will place the old windows into a folder called windows.old which has all the info of the old machine. Which you can use to restore certain files and such then delete it afterwords.  You get the benefits of a clean install without having to format the entire harddrive.

I currently have Windows XP Pro and want to install Windows 7 (pro or ultimate) on a NEW HARD DRIVE using an upgrade version I need to do the following?

- replace current hard drive with XP and insert new blank hard drive.

- Install XP on hard drive with (or without key?)

- install Windows 7 Upgrade media on the same partition as the XP is installed on?

Is this correct?

"how dare you try to install your properly licensed operating system the same way it's been done for 20 yrs, how stupid are you?"

You mean by using the wrong disc with a mismatched serial number?  Go ahead and show proof to your false claim.  You can't, so STFU.

"I just got my $30 Professional upgrade for my desktop, and all I had was win 7 RC on it and I used custom install from the set up folder and it worked fine"

Upgrading from the RC is actually a supported option (as a Custom Upgrade, not in-place).

"The Snow Leopard Upgrade disc has been PROVEN time and again as being able to install on a blank drive without providing verification of a Leopard Install. Really, please, get the facts straight."

There's a reason for this:  Apple makes enough money on their overpriced hardware to compensate for any loss in profit from software.  They deal with copy protection on a trust issue.  Mackies favour themselves as being more honest and less likely to pirate software, so if you buy the $30 piece of software illegitimately against Apple's trust, then you're just making yourself look bad by misrepresenting the Apple iMage(TM).  If Apple ever decides to implement a copy protection method in their software beyond not allowing it to be installed on hardware other than their own, I'll just laugh.  Regardless, they already fleeced you out of your hard-earned cash.

"I thought you could use the upgrade disc with a clean hd, but then it prompts you to insert the Dell cd for example?"

Not anymore.  The previous option didn't have any way of confirming the existance of a legitimate Windows installation that's valid for an upgrade.  The only way to do that is to confirm a running copy of Windows on the machine that is fully activated.  A custom install works just fine, and is still a clean-running Windows on completion.  

Aside from moving existing files into the Windows.old folder, the only difference is that an upgrade doesn't modify partitions to create a separate System partition to hold the Windows BCD, which is the norm with a stock Windows 7 clean install.  I could never find a lot of information from Microsoft as to why they would go this route.  The System partition is hidden, so maybe it's to maintain a higher integrity of the BCD, I have no idea.  All I know is that this is the way they do it on GPT disks (supported by EFI on IA-64, or UEFI on x86-64 architecture).  

To install Windows 7 upgrade on to a new hd I need to do the following?

Replace existing HD with new HD (nada on it)

install XP (with or without key?)

install Windows 7 upgrade (custom)

Correct?

Microsoft said on the phone, that in the past they had customers running to their neighbors, borrowing a XP cd to put in during installation of the upgrade-vista.

To prevent that, they now insist on an upgrade over a working OS. Brilliant...

So again, I am better off with some cracked corporate versions and have fewer problems with that compared to a legally paid license... That’s just wrong.

What if my hard disc crashes in the future? Do I have to order the vista restore-discs from ASUS just to install my fully paid windows 7?

> Using a product key for a disc that doesn't match is completely your fault.

> You never were able to use a upgrade key with a full retail copy

With windows 7, you can install with any win7 media, select the proper version (home, pro, ultimate...) and enter the corresponding CD Key afterwards. So RTFM yourself :-)

> but blowing away old partitions without copying them is always risky.

Remember, it was a crappy preinstallation vista with loads of ad-ware and tryout software which I never would have installed anyway. Why make a backup of ad-ware-junk?

@gfryesc1: nice 8-)

crankenstein  said:

"I see the Apple community is trying to make a final last stand. Good luck with that, while the rest of the world is switching to Windows 7. The internet now belongs to Microsoft... Macs are for 10 yr old kids, Macs are secretly manufactured by Disney :)"

Not manufactured by Disney!!... Mac is manufactured by Apple, a property of Microsoft... I mean which belong to Microsoft...

How much share of Apple is owned by Microsoft exactly??

"Macs are for 10 yr old kids, Macs are secretly manufactured by Disney :)"

Lol !! Which is true in a way !! :D

@jimotr:

I believe you can choose the drive on which Windows 7 installs.  Leave the XP drive in, run Setup from within it, and just choose the new drive when the option comes up.  You'll have to choose the Custom option to upgrade from XP, but the drive partitioner should come up afterwards and let you choose the drive, or else there would be advanced options when you first launch Windows Setup in your Windows XP installation.

You *should* be able to do what you want with the data on the old drive afterwards, such as nuking the old Windows folder, or even take the drive out.

@jimotr : NOOO!!! Just format your Disk and install Windows 7 Upgrade... thats it...

@jimotr: you forgot one step:

- call Microsoft and enter the whole 36-digit code into you iPhone touch screen to activate winXP over the phone, because probably won't let you activate over the internet if you use a new hard disk :-)

@crankenstein: nice sarcasm :-)

"Mac is manufactured by Apple, a property of Microsoft... I mean which belong to Microsoft... "

Erico has to be the most delusional and ill-informed guy on the planet...

In that case should just go to one of Apple board and ask to shut down the whole thing, like Dell once suggested 8 yrs ago or so... !!

redunion, have you done this before?

I'm still going to try the upgrade option on a clean hd and see if it prompts me for the Dell Vista DVD.

"What if my hard disc crashes in the future? Do I have to order the vista restore-discs from ASUS just to install my fully paid windows 7?"

Yes.  But you should've have blown away your recovery partition ahead of time.  That would've saved time reinstalling your Vista copy for future reinstalls.

"With windows 7, you can install with any win7 media, select the proper version (home, pro, ultimate...) and enter the corresponding CD Key afterwards."

Nope.  Doesn't work with upgrades.  Only full installs.

"Remember, it was a crappy preinstallation vista with loads of ad-ware and tryout software which I never would have installed anyway. Why make a backup of ad-ware-junk?"

When you do a custom install, none of that software propogates to the upgrade, so it wouldn't matter.  You would have a Windows.old folder with all of those files that you could just safely delete.  That's why.

Waethorn, have you done this already with Win7? Just do the custom install for the .old folder then delete it? Cause I now just have a friend who blew away his partition with the o/s. has the upgrade Win7 dvd and is stuck.

Thanks

I just listened to Twit live with Paul and Leo and they both said that the upgrade disc will do a full install.  I'll know for sure when I try mine.

Okay delmont this is what you do, if you have a disc I used digital media, but if you have a disc and you have either XP, Vista or 7 RC on the harddrive, put the disc in with the original operating system running,

Then when the auto-run prompts you or you start the disc, click custom install. It will ask you if it is okay to put all of the old windows files into a file called Windows.old, then it will run just like a regular clean install take about 25 minutes and then you have a clean install of Windows 7, you then can navigate to the Windows.old file folder get what you need from it and then just delete it from the hard drive.

You will now have a clean Windows 7.

As for your friend he will need to restore his old partion as upgrade media will not install on a clean partiton it has to have a old version of windows on it.

@Del:

Upgrades have to be launched from within the prior version of Windows, and that Windows version has to be a) legit, and b) activated.  That's it.  You can still do a "clean" install, but it has to be launched from the previous OS.

If your system doesn't come with discs for reinstalling the existing Windows installation, you should NOT delete the recovery partition whatsoever.

When you do a custom install, the contents of the existing installation (drive C: is what it should be) will be moved to Windows.old - THAT INCLUDES YOUR DATA, if there is any.  You have to reinstall your other applications, games, and other software.  Do that, then copy any potential data out of C:\Windows.OLD\Documents & Settings\<username>(in the case of XP), or C:\Windows.OLD\Users\<username> (in the case of Vista) into the respective folders from the root of C:\, or else use Windows Easy Transfer at the start and save yourself some time and headache if you don't understand what I'm talking about.  Once you have Windows 7 installed and all of the possible stuff in the Windows.OLD folder is copied out of it, you can delete it.

So long as you left the recovery partition intact, you should still be able to hit F10/F11/whatever to boot into that partition and reinstall your old OS prior to reinstalling Windows 7 Upgrade again.  There are very few instances where Windows 7's BCD interferes with a pre-existing recovery partition, so sometimes it is a good idea to have the discs on hand.  The other advantage with having discs for reinstalling is that you can save on the space by nuking the recovery partition, but subsequent reinstalls will be slower (CD's/DVD's are slower than just copying from one partition on your hard drive to another).

Regardless of what you have on the system prior to install, if you do a custom install, the resultant Windows 7 installation is clean.  Your hard drive may not be, but all the old crap is safely isolated in Windows.old, and the Windows 7 installation won't migrate any programs over when you choose the custom option, as programs are also moved into Windows.OLD\Program Files

What you do with your recovery partition is your own choice - delete it for extra space, or leave it and make future reinstalls faster.  Up to you.  Just make sure you have reinstall DVD's for the original software before you blow it away.

FYI:  As I already said:  I believe you can do a custom upgrade install from the RC, as I read somewhere that Microsoft said that was going to be supported.  That's a hint, people.

I;m downloading my Daughter's Upgrade Home Student deal copy right now....and get this -it's NOT an ISO it's friggin' hardrive based installer.

THAT sucks.

I wanted the bootable ISO!

WH Tech it is an upgrade digital media and it works fine, you don't need an ISO for that it runs from within the old operating system, I came directly from Windows 7 RC to Windows 7 Pro fine with it, and it works fine, you double click it say custom install and away you go.

@WH Tech: what do you mean its not an Iso? What is it is if its not an iso file??

What is friggin' harddrive based installer??

"Not manufactured by Disney!!... Mac is manufactured by Apple, a property of Microsoft... I mean which belong to Microsoft...

How much share of Apple is owned by Microsoft exactly??"

Oh, isn't that cute! Mr. "All your base are belong to us" is back with his fractured English to make another ridiculous claim. Here are the facts, Homer: Microsoft's investment of 150,000 shares of non-voting Apple stock were sold off years ago. They did, for a time, own a miniscule percentage of Apple stock through a Private Capital Management fund that no longer invests in Apple stock.

Microsoft owns 0% of Apple.

Wae,

Thanks!!

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Wae,

I have the Dell Vista Business Restore DVD, but I beleive the recovery partition is blown away. ANd I am running the Win7 RC1.

So, I'll do the customer install for the .old folder.

Would be nice if I could just blow everythign away and be prompted to put the Vista cd when prompted like it use to be.

@WH Tech:

As I mentioned before, people are saying that VLK media is not bootable, and VLK's are upgrades only, so it would stand to reason that the final upgrade versions are not bootable either.

FYI:  This would come in handy for some:

blogs.zdnet.com/microsoft

I downloaded Win7 Pro 32bit from Digital River (UK student edition) this morning, and got a 32bit 'upgrade' key by email. It took me ten minutes to follow the many instructions and convert the .exe to an ISO.

I have a test laptop which was installed with RC (build 7100). I've just placed the 32bit ISO disc into the drive and booted from it, and from the Windows setup deleted all partitions on the hard drive before installing completely fresh. I used the 32bit 'upgrade' key from the email I received this morning and all installed fine.

Now the only reservation I have on this is that I haven't ACTIVATED this copy yet, as this isn't the machine that I want this licence on, but I'll try that a desktop - hopefully tomorrow if I find the time. I don't THINK this will be a problem though, as upgrade key problems usually exhibit at key entry, rather than activation, don't they?

I've used the 'double install' method to successfully install Vista from an upgrade disc before, so I know how that works. With my install this evening, that was NOT NECESSARY.

Also, most opinions I've seen online is that "all DVD's and ISOs are the same, regardless of version". Well I'm sorry, but this cannot be true. I ordered Professional, and when I installed it, that's what I got, and the installer had identified itself as Professional long before I put any key in. Of course retail copies might be different, but this is the case for the DR student editions.

"What is friggin' harddrive based installer??"

An executable (.EXE) program file.

@ lotsamystuff: Ho! I thought that microsoft was still shares of Apple... Sorry! My error!

Also, I wonder if you could be more unpleasant with me? Esti de mangeux de graines...

lotsagay...

I'm fairly certain the student Upgrade 29.99 deal is RETAIL not VLK.

So people who opted for the disc got BOOTABLE media. While I'm just getting a big assed setup file/

I think what Paul wants to know is if you can simply do a clean install from booting from the disc, with no OS on the drive already, and skip the step of having to upgrade Windows 7 to Windows 7 when you're done.

In my case I have RC1, but I want to be able to boot to disc, reformat that partition RC1 is on, and then be able to use my Upgrade Key without having to upgrade 7 again for the key to work.

I know people keep saying you can do a custom install, but that is without booting from disc, which creates the Windows.old folder. Smart people don't want that, we WANT to wipe our drive clean and remove ANY clutter, and have no Windows.old folder when all done.

Make sense?

@Del:

I'm not sure if we're understanding each other, so I'll try to make this brief:

1)  Boot into your Windows 7 RC.

2)  Make sure it's activated.

3)  Launch the Windows 7 Upgrade from within your RC install.

4)  Choose the "Custom" option, instead of "Upgrade".

5)  Follow the prompts and wait for the install to finish.

6)  Unless there is anything from your old install that you want to keep, you can delete the Windows.old folder on your hard drive.

7)  Enjoy Windows 7 RTM.

Waethorn said:

"What is friggin' harddrive based installer??"

"An executable (.EXE) program file."

Ho! *** They give Windows Student in a EXE file... Noo!! Come on... WE need an iso...

scotter783 you can delete the windows.old folder and you get your clean hard drive

as to WH Tech it cost $14.99 extra for the bottable disc.

"I'm fairly certain the student Upgrade 29.99 deal is RETAIL not VLK. "

Student versions sold through "The Ultimate Steal" are retail, but they're an upgrade only.  They are not full versions.

VLK is short for "Volume License Key/Kit".  That's what businesses buy.

"So people who opted for the disc got BOOTABLE media"

What I was saying is that if the retail upgrade works the same as the VLK versions, it isn't bootable either, so no, they didn't.

Waethorn- that all sounds great and all but what happens a year from now when someone wants to use a brand new HD (and does not want to clone the old install) ? I'm pretty sure the RC won't be activating forever.

@redunion1940 I realize this, yes - and know how to delete it. But Paul knows this too. But when Paul says clean install, he means reformatting the drive before installing Windows 7. The type of install you speak of does NOT reformat your drive. I realize all you have to do is delete Windows.Old, but you never actually reformat your drive.

Paul knows this is the case, but his opinion is that EVERYONE should do a true clean install and REFORMAT your drive. Prior to Paul's posting today he documents the option to still do this with Windows 7 Upgrade media using the same Vista trick he links in tis blog post. But it's a pain.

Paul here, is hoping that you can actually USE your UPGRADE KEY to activate a TRUE REFORMAT or Clean 0% containing Previous OS aka "Cleaan Install" and avoid Upgrading 7 to 7 when you're done.

"In my case I have RC1, but I want to be able to boot to disc, reformat that partition RC1 is on, and then be able to use my Upgrade Key without having to upgrade 7 again for the key to work."

If you were able to boot the disc, the setup program would have no way of checking the activation state of the preinstalled OS.  As such, it appears that most upgrade options, from downloads to VLK media kits, are not bootable for that exact reason.

"I know people keep saying you can do a custom install, but that is without booting from disc, which creates the Windows.old folder. Smart people don't want that, we WANT to wipe our drive clean and remove ANY clutter, and have no Windows.old folder when all done.

Make sense?"

The different is negligible.  In one case, you have a hidden bootloader partition and a clean install, in the other case, you have the bootloader on the data partition, just like Windows Vista (and every prior Windows version) does it, and a clean install with an additional Windows.old folder that can be deleted.

The only suggestion I would make is that if you want slightly better performance after deleting the Windows.old, do a manual defrag (Starting with Vista, Windows does automatic defrags in the background so that suggestion is just for impatient people that want to get it over and done with).  After all that, you won't notice any difference unless you look at how the drive is partitioned.  Performance is the same.

Dam this is funny.  Its launch day and we still dont knwo this?

@redunion1940  the snow leopard DVD will upgrade anything, or at least I know that it will upgrade Tiger, Leopard or a blank drive.  The "family pack" or "Single upgrade" media is exactly the same.  There is no key. There is one version.

@Waethorn And you're probably right about performance. It probably does work just as well. I'm just clarifying by what Paul means in this post.

The big mystery is can you do a true clean install, and start with a wiped out drive and use an upgrade key to activate Windows 7. And if so, how DOES it then know you had a previous OS installed? Does it ask for a previous OS Key? Does it ask to enter a previous disc like in the past? Or does it just work, trusting your loyalty?

Right now, no one knows that answer. Unfourtunately no one has posted their experience yet who has indeed activated a copy of Windows 7 with an upgrade Key doing a clean install from boot.

I have the media, but... unfourtantely have to wait till tomorrow to find out, as I want to back up my things to my external drive and it's at home while I'm out of town :-)

"that all sounds great and all but what happens a year from now when someone wants to use a brand new HD (and does not want to clone the old install) ? I'm pretty sure the RC won't be activating forever."

No, but you should already have an OEM installation with that computer, or else that gives you plenty of time to order discs from your OEM.  Similarly, the Family Pack and most of these sales are only for a limited time too.

"But when Paul says clean install, he means reformatting the drive before installing Windows 7."

No, no.  What he's talking about is not migrating the cruft of the old Windows over into the new one.  That's what causes Windows instabilities and performance issues later, because old programs and drivers that Windows Setup doesn't recognize properly can cause crashing and general nonsense after the upgrade.  That has nothing to do with reformatting your drive at all.  Files that aren't referenced by the running Windows installation don't affect performance or stability whatsoever.  It's like if you have a Trojan that's sitting on your hard drive and you never actually launch it.  It won't do any harm until you actually click to launch it, or there's something scripted to launch it automatically, and in the case of Windows, it won't touch anything in Windows.old.

Now if you want to talk about refreshing sectors of your hard drive, that's a different story altogether.  Either use Spinrite, or perform a long format of the drive.  Windows Setup, since Windows Vista, only does a quick format, which only wipes out the MFT on NTFS drives, or the FAT on FAT-formatted drives.  If you want to do a long format during setup, you have to hit Shift-F10, and run diskpart from a commandline before choosing the drive.  That's not something any regular end-user should do either.  Spinrite is non-destructive, so that's a better option, and you can do that any time you want regardless of what is on your drive.

"The "family pack" or "Single upgrade" media is exactly the same.  There is no key. There is one version."

If the install bits are identical, and there is no technical limitations between the versions, then Apple is being more dishonest by charging different prices for the exact same thing.

Or else anybody that takes advantage of Apple's loose protection scheme (the "honour system", LOL!) is even worse.

Take your pick.

I'm glad I read this.  I was going to format my drive and do a clean install.  

My question, can I upgrade from 32 bit Vista to 64 bit Win 7?

"The big mystery is can you do a true clean install, and start with a wiped out drive and use an upgrade key to activate Windows 7. And if so, how DOES it then know you had a previous OS installed?"

That's why I'll back up the claims that state that upgrades aren't bootable at all.

"Unfourtunately no one has posted their experience yet who has indeed activated a copy of Windows 7 with an upgrade Key doing a clean install from boot."

Business have already tried the install from certain pieces of VLK media.  From what some people in forums are saying, they aren't bootable, so that option isn't possible.

I personally can't say for or against that though, since I don't know.  I don't expect someone would have a reason to claim otherwise though.

"I have the media, but... unfourtantely have to wait till tomorrow to find out, as I want to back up my things to my external drive and it's at home while I'm out of town"

All you have to do is try booting from it.  If it boots and you can click the "upgrade" option, you can cancel the install before it gets to the drive partitioning screen.  It will tell you long before that whether or not it works.  If it doesn't boot at all, then you have your answer immediately.

Good points Waethorn. Though I might argue what Paul means by clean install, which is debatable (maybe not), what he does ask in his post is if you can clean install with upgrade media "without having to resort to any tricks (like the Vista-era "install it twice" hack).

There is one answer we know. Yes you can, do a custom install from within Windows as we've discussed. But Paul knows that already, so that can't be what he's asking. He wants to know if you can boot from disc, install outside of Windows with a clean drive and avoid the Vista "install it twice" hack.

Funny after all this, Paul does document the Vista "install it twice" hack , but for Windows 7, in his Windows 7 Secrets book.

"My question, can I upgrade from 32 bit Vista to 64 bit Win 7?"

Custom upgrade install only, but if you have a copy of Windows (XP or higher) that's installed and activated, you qualify for upgrade pricing.

The only time you can do an in-place upgrade is if the version matches, ie. Windows Vista Home Premium 64-bit to Windows 7 Home Premium 64-bit, or say, Windows Vista Business 32-bit to Windows 7 Professional 32-bit (despite the name change).  Otherwise you have to do a custom install.  It's similar to a clean install, in that you don't have any leftover stuff from the old install, but you still don't have to pay for the full version.

@Waethorn Booting from disc does work according to Windows 7 Secrets which plushes the new "Windows 7 install it twice" scenario.

Though, again I don't have a disc with me either today to burn my ISO to  :-P. But I'm assuming you can boot with an upgrade disc, since Paul documents it in Windows 7 Secrets.

Good Discussion!

"He wants to know if you can boot from disc, install outside of Windows with a clean drive and avoid the Vista "install it twice" hack."

You can't do that in the RC, so I'm betting they left that in for the RTM, because people would abuse that by buying upgrade copies instead of full versions when they didn't have a previous OS.

@waethorn

Good post about the Windows 7 upgrade media install instructions. That seems pretty straightforward to me.

> You would have a Windows.old folder with all of those files that you could just safely delete.

I don't want to do that. I want a CLEAN install; I want to use a brand new SSD for installing Win7. If there was already an OS on the SSD, the performance would be a bit lower. Not much, but clean should be clean and not just "delete the old stuff afterwards".

And again: If I ever would have to reinstall my win7 Family Pack, it would be a pain in the ass to install an old system first. What about reinstalling 5 years from now? Will my brand new pc even run WinXP so I can upgrade from there? That is just a bunch of crap Microsoft produced here... Sick marketing-decisions that hurt every legitimate client which pays Microsoft money for the license. That’s not the way a company should threat their customers.

Sorry for my ignorance rr0de74@live.com, but I do not use Apple hardware nor do I use Apple software, and since I use an AMD processor getting iDeneb to work on it isn't as easy as the Intel processors, so no I have no experaince on it, but 1 version of Windows will not work for the enviroment it is being released into.

If MS released 1 version of windows I would almost gurantee it cost around $300 for Retail and maybe $250 for small OEM's and around $170 for large OEMs like Dell and HP and others, increasing the overall prices of PC's, but with multiple versions MS can have multiple price points and allow OEM's a choice for the version they want and a cheaper price for that version.

Apple makes one version because, there is only one MAC producer, APPLE, Apple isn't going to be making money off of its Operating system, because it is recieving almost a 300 to $500 dollar premium on the hardware, not to mention its iPod, and iPhone lines which are also making around 100 to 400 dollars for Apple, so you see Apple could give its OS away for free ans still be making a giant profit.

MS is a software company that has some hardware, but most of its money comes from software I.E. Office and Windows.

@waethorn

Would you enter the product key during the Windows 7 upgrade install or leave it blank until completion?

I don't know about the new HDD scenario just put it in and use it in raid I would say.

, the good thing is, I keep an old XP disc lying around that I can use to upgrade from. As for you I really don't know what to say but be prepared to buy a OEM disc for around 109 for HP or 149 for Pro.

Because with OEM disc you can call MS up and say something to the effect my HDD failed can you reissue my code so I can use it again, but I think my HDD should last for another 2 to 3 years, enough time for me to build another machine and buy either Win 7 or Windows ? ( as we have no idea what the new version will be called,.)

If you get a new system buy a new OS with it, upgrades are meant for exsisting systems.

and as we explained the Windows.old file will not slow down you computer it is litterally just files sitting there doing nothing, it is not a normal upgrade.

If you upgrade you just change the current Windows Folder which can cause problems but all your programs are left alone,

Custom install takes all that stuff puts it in a folder where the programs won't work any more and you can choose what you want from the folder and then just delete and degrag

ChrisPerfect.

Backup77, you can use the upgrade install key immediatly no worries there.

@redunion1940

Thanks for the headsup there.

Wae, followed your instructions. I'm up and running on RTM.

Only odd thing, it cut my hd in 1/2 and created a second partition ????????  There is nothing on the new partition but some system files.... hmmm.......

@lotsamystuff Dude, it wasn't 150,000 shares. It was $150 MILLION (about 5.2 Million shares). Do a little Due Diligence before posting.

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Paul why does Ballmer look so unhappy in that second to last picture there?

@danieldecker said:

@lotsamystuff Dude, it wasn't 150,000 shares. It was $150 MILLION (about 5.2 Million shares). Do a little Due Diligence before posting.

Forget it Daniel, lotsagay is juste a c.o.c.k-s.u.c.k.e.r...

I mis-spoke. The install, created a 100MB boot partition on my system, but labeled it Drive E.   hmmmm......

@EricoF3 - You've taken it a bit too far, don't you think? It's an Operating System....not a person that you are defending. I understand that you were insulted by "lotsamystuff's" posting about your language barrier; but be ther bigger person. Don't stoop to his level. It makes you appear as ignorant as some of the other trolls that congregate here.

--tayme

@wae "Or else anybody that takes advantage of Apple's loose protection scheme (the "honour system", LOL!) is even worse."

I am betting normal users just dont know until they try.  Or dont care because the price is so low.  I am sure Apple cares if you are dishonest but then again you can only install it on a Mac.  In either case, SL upgrades sales were very good for Apple...

www.appleinsider.com/.../apples_mac_os_x_snow_leopard_sales_double_previous_records.html

EricaF33....U lotts yure MINde!!!!!

Here's how it worked for me: Win7 Release Candidate was installed on the drive and activated. I booted from the DVD, deleted all of the partitions and installed from upgrade media. On first boot I entered product key and activated. No problem.

Evox, are you serious? you booted from the upgrade dvd, deleted your partition(s) and did a clean install and activated?  Wow.

Three great new Get A Mac ads that put the whole Windows 7 fiasco in to perspective. Some truth coming your way right here:

movies.apple.com/.../apple-mvp-broken_promises-us-20091022_480x272.mov

movies.apple.com/.../apple-mvp-teeter_tottering-us-20091022_480x272.mov

movies.apple.com/.../apple-mvp-pc_news-us-20091022_480x272.mov

Well, here's how I'm doing it. I downloaded Windows 7 Pro from the DigitalRiver site since I'm a student and got it cheap. Much to my chagrin it wasn't an ISO, and I always install Windows by booting from a disc. So, I converted it to a bootable ISO and burned it to disc. Booted from the disc and did a clean install on a totally wiped hard drive, and everything seemed to go fine. However, when I went to enter the product key it didn't work, and told me it was only valid for upgrades and not clean installs. So, I'm currently trying the "install it twice" Vista method. I'll post again when I find out if it accepts my key or not.

And by the way, why do the trolls always feel that they have to go off-topic and turn things into bitter arguments? It's ridiculous. Paul requested this in his post: "If you have done a clean install with Windows 7 Upgrade media (i.e. there is no other OS installed on the PC at the time), please post here and let everyone know." Why can't everyone just stay on topic?

Instructions for making student deal into bootable ISO

www.sevenforums.com/.../30470-make-bootable-iso-student-d-l.html

nice try robertsjoe

the fiasco was called Snowsomething

Paul, please ban "Erico" or whatever his name is along with robertsjoe.

This is getting ridiculous.

"Three great new Get A Mac ads that put the whole Windows 7 fiasco in to perspective. "

Blah! Some more negative ads from Apple. What else is new?

@evgenij: come on now. Erico is insulting and abusive, ban him. I am not down at his level. Be fair.

May be sorry....

The "install-it-twice" method worked! So, the situation seems to be the same as with Vista. I wish they could come up with a better way like just asking for the product key of your old version of Windows.

So why would someone want to use a mac because according to that first ad Mac hasn't changed since Nineteen hundred ninty-two, and I'm pretty sure Macs sucked then and if it hasn't changed since they must suck now that is what the AD tells me, as for the 2nd and 3rd one, Apple has it wrong it is really easy to do it.

tayme said:

@EricoF3 - You've taken it a bit too far, don't you think? It's an Operating System....not a person that you are defending. I understand that you were insulted by "lotsamystuff's" posting about your language barrier; but be ther bigger person. Don't stoop to his level. It makes you appear as ignorant as some of the other trolls that congregate here.

--tayme

You are right tayme... Sorry to all ... sometime they get me crazy when insulting me just because they have no argument... Sorry to all... except losta...

ropp29: so, the first install (the key-less one) didn't have to be activated for the upgrade to accept it as valid, after all?

rr0de

"the snow leopard DVD will upgrade anything"

Hmmm. Really? Let's compare:

Microsoft Windows

2006 OS (Vista) -> 2009 OS (7) - Upgrade or clean install with data and setting migration

2001 OS (XP) -> 2009 OS (7) - Clean install with data and setting migration

Apple Mac OS X

2006 OS (10.5 "Leopard") -> 2009 OS (10.6 "Snow Leopard") - Upgrade or clean install

2001 OS (10.1 "Puma") -> 2009 OS (10.6 "Snow Leopard") - Buy a new computer

@james3mg

No, the first install doesn't have to be activated. Once you have that installed, you upgrade it, and the upgrade assumes the first install is legit, even though its not activated. Once it's upgraded you input your product key and it accepts it.

If you want more info on this I think Paul, in his post, linked to an old article about it, because people did this same "install it twice" thing to do a clean Vista install with upgrade media.

This post was mentioned on Twitter by fumo7887: Paul @Thurrott post: "Windows 7 Question of the Year, Answered?" http://bit.ly/2Son7Q

This is so f.cking hilarious and so predictable from the outrageous business model chart microsoft uses to have you nitwits pay some more Microsoft-taxes so they can settle EU monopoly lawsuits.

It's a Vista service pack: nothing more. And you're paying top dollar for that.

@ Galos

You're refering to PPC vs Intel. That said, 2001->2007 was perfectly plausible for OSX. In fact, your 2001 machine would run faster on OSX Leopard than on OSX TIger. That has always been a given: newer versions of OSX run faster on the same hardware. The lower limit of hardware requirement will go up, but this has also been the case with Windows.

Except for Vista. Which required you spend another 1000 dollars on new hardware because you got tricked by a Vista-capable sticker.

Another version of the Microsoft-tax. You not only pay top dollar for numerous versions (Apple uses one that has got everything on it), but you'll also have to pay for new hardware.

Vista-capable lawsuit ring a bell? Here's a link: www.seattlepi.com/.../352442_vista23.html

Oh, how we at Microsoft value our customers....NOT!

I've been using the VLK media since it was released in July and I have no idea what y'all are talking about. The VLK media are the full ISOs. I have installed both Win7 Enterprise and Pro from VLK downloads and have never seen a non-bootable version on the volume licensing site.

log

"Apple uses one [version] that has got everything on it"

Only to the most fantatic Mac person who truly thinks "If Apple doesn't make it, I shouldn't need it" in which case everything, no matter how lacking, has "everything they need".

@Waethorn: "As I mentioned before, people are saying that VLK media is not bootable, and VLK's are upgrades only, so it would stand to reason that the final upgrade versions are not bootable either."

The VLK media I have been using is bootable.

Since I was running the 64-bit RC on my laptop, and I knew that I was going to blow it away anyway, I booted to a USB device since I don't have an optical drive on this ultraportable, and ran the custom install with Pro upgrade media/key.  Finished in about 20 minutes, and I'm all activated and genuine.

RJ, I saw one of those ads, and if you think they are really good, you are insane (well, we knew that anyway).  Just like I predicted yesterday, the "actor" Justin Long said almost nothing, and didn't present any facts or solid information.  Hodgeman did all of the work and provided absolutely no solid criticism against Windows 7, just a nebulous "we've seen this before" bit.  And they took it all the way back to way earlier versions of Windows.  Of course, this is a slippery slope for them, since, you know, the later versions of the classic environment were slow and bug ridden

" rr0de74@live.com  said:

EricaF33....U lotts yure MINde!!!!!"

LOL!

"Do a little Due Diligence before posting"

Yep. I deserved that. My math skills are as bad as Homer's English.

I really don't understand why people put themselves through an aneurysm when the solution to the problem of new OS is quite simple.

Backup your data and clean install!

I don't care if your a Mac user or a Windows user. The very same rules apply.

That should be the rule each and everytime. I didn't take the hard and ridonkulous road. I bought the full version of Windows 7 Home Premium and did a clean install. Done in 30 minutes. Then the Microsoft updates and adding the latest 3rd party software (AKA: Java, Flash, etc) took 30 minutes. Reinstalled Office 2007. Rebuilding iTunes took a bit but I've done it so many times, its down to clockwork.

So now I'm up and running. It feels like the RTM is just a hare faster than the RC. I'm liking that. So kudos for Microsoft for building Windows 7 64 that finally beats Apple OS-X 10.6 Snow Vista. Great job.

Here are my experiences trying to clean install Windows 7.  First up is the successful try.

My home computer had Vista Home Premium 32bit installed on the C drive.  I had 3 games installed on a 2nd physical D drive.  I ordered Windows 7 Home Premium upgrade from Amazon.

Last night I, unplugged the hard drive containing the C drive.  I unplugged the SATA cable to be exact.  This left only the “D” drive which was not bootable.  I booted my computer from the 64bit Windows 7 upgrade DVD.  I choose the advanced install (or is called custom?).  I formatted the drive.  Windows 7 finished installing.  I activated Windows 7, and even installed Microsoft Security Essentials which has its own check.  There was no visible check for an older O/S.  I didn’t have to put in an old media.  There was no Windows.old folder to delete, just a clean install.

My other experience was with my work computer.  I downloaded the Windows 7 Pro 64bit upgrade ISO from Microsoft’s eopen site.  I burned it to a DVD using Windows 7 RC ISO burner.  This DVD was not bootable.  So I had to format my computer, install Windows 7 RC, upgraded to Windows 7 RTM, and delete the Windows.old folder.  Before this I tried upgrading from Vista Pro 32bit to Windows 7 Pro 64bit and that didn’t work.

I had two different experiences with media from two different sources.  

So the questions is…was my D drive that was part of a Vista installation but only had three games installed and no operating system  enough to pass the upgrade check?  If yes, then what was it about that drive that was enough?  Or was there no upgrade check?

So are the people posting in this forum more tech-savvy or less tech-savvy than the general population?

There's no way that upgrading a computer can be this head-scratching.

chipwinter has a point...but most upgrades will go something like this, since in response to his question, most here are more tech-savvy than the general population. Of course, the obvious trolls are the exception.

- Shutdown PC

- Drive to Best Buy

- Select a new PC or one of the package deals that they are offering

- Collect Best Buy Reward points

- Drive home

- If Home setup was not selected; unbox, connect, and power on new PC(s)

- Enjoy Windows 7

--tayme

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"2006 OS (10.5 "Leopard") -> 2009 OS (10.6 "Snow Leopard") - Upgrade or clean install"

ONLY if that mac has an intel processor. If it has a powerpc chip you also need to buy a new machine.

Not sure what all the fuss is about, does the install twice trick not work anymore ?

If so then you could always simply install XP, activate it and do a clean install this way.

"There's no way that upgrading a computer can be this head-scratching."

Everything's easier on Windows. Right?

"tayme" is right. Most people will just say "screw it" and buy a new PC. They're so cheap as to be basically disposable. Long live capitalism!

It is not head scratching. If you upgrade, you upgrade from an existing version of Windows. So the vast majority of people will just do that. Which means a clean install with migrated settings going from XP to 7, and a full inplace upgrade going from Vista to win7.

Now for the people that somehow want to upgrade on a clean disk, just try the win7 - win7 approach, I am guessing it still works. (like it did almost three years ago with vista).

If all else fails, install XP or vista, and do the clean install, I mean you do have the original media that entitles you to this upgrade right  ? :)

Otherwise there are other ways..

sjaak

'"2006 OS (10.5 "Leopard") -> 2009 OS (10.6 "Snow Leopard") - Upgrade or clean install"

ONLY if that mac has an intel processor. If it has a powerpc chip you also need to buy a new machine. '

Yeah, I was trying to be nice to the Mac people there.

The reality is that they've abandoned their users about once a decade by picking the wrong processor family.

M680x0 abandoned in 1998 after a 5-year transition

PowerPC abandoned in 2009 after a 3-year transition

What's pretty unforgivable this time was that they killed off PowerPC support only 3 years after they were still selling it for a premium and calling it the future of computing.

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