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Fretting the Post-Microsoft Era

Two related items today.

The other day, I saw a post from ex-Microsoftie Don Dodge, who left (i.e. "was fired by") the software giant in November and began blogging. In this latest post, he talks about the ease in which he went non-Microsoft and why this is possible and even desirable. I disagree with a lot of this, but I also agree with a lot of it. I'd just point out that this guy was spurned by Microsoft, so take it with that grain of salt.

The move from Microsoft was complete. From Windows to Mac, from Outlook to Gmail, from Explorer to Google Chrome browser, from Office to Google Apps, from Windows Mobile phone to Android, from Zune to iPod. But this post is all about the move to Mac.

Design is probably the reason that high end buyers choose Mac ... One of the major advantages Apple has is controlling the end to end user experience ... The downside was that Apple products cost more and you could only get software and peripheral devices from limited sources. Microsoft, in contrast, was the Swiss Army Knife of the tech world.

The battery life is significantly better on the Mac. [Compared to what? My netbook gets 10 hours of battery life. The ThinkPad Edge I'm testing gets 7.8 hours. --Paul] ... most of the differences I mentioned are hardware design oriented. But what about the differences in the operating systems? Perhaps the best attribute of an operating system is that it operates silently in the background organizing everything automatically without end user involvement. Ten or twenty years ago users had to deal with the operating system to do anything on a PC. Today most people spend their time in the browser. From my perspective the underlying OS doesn’t matter much. All my applications run in the browser. Web browsing, email, documents, spreadsheets, music, photos,…everything is in the browser.

This mirrors two different discussions we've been having a lot on the Windows Weekly podcast. First, that anything familiar is, by definition, "easy to use." More specifically, Mac OS X is not intuitive or "easy to use" (in fact it's very Spartan and utilitarian, compared to Windows) ... unless you've been using GUIs like Windows for a long time. Moving from Windows to the Mac (or vice versa) isn't that hard. The basics are all the same.

Second, that the future is the cloud. If you put all your data in the cloud, use cloud-based email, calendar, contacts, and so on ... switching from OS X to Windows (or vice versa) or between Macs and PCs is all the easier. (As is, incidentally, upgrading to a new PC). It's one less thing to worry about. Once are apps are in the cloud--something Microsoft played with in Live Mesh, by the way--that will be the final major hurdle. Google's way, of course, is just web apps. But I do agree with Steven Sinofsky's view that the computer will also be necessary too.

Anyway.

And then there's Microsoft’s Creative Destruction, an editorial in the New York Times today by ex-Microsoftie *** Brass. (Very "ex" as it turns out: He was forced out of the company six years ago.) As with Dodge's stuff, I agree with some of it and disagree with some of it. But he does discuss some very specific incidents which I find interesting. Beyond that, we see this kind of silliness:

Some people take joy in Microsoft’s struggles, as the popular view in recent years paints the company as an unrepentant intentional monopolist. Good riddance if it fails. But those of us who worked there know it differently. At worst, you can say it’s a highly repentant, largely accidental monopolist. It employs thousands of the smartest, most capable engineers in the world. More than any other firm, it made using computers both ubiquitous and affordable. Microsoft’s Windows operating system and Office applications suite still utterly rule their markets.

And yet it is failing, even as it reports record earnings. As the fellow who tried (and largely failed) to make tablet PCs and e-books happen at Microsoft a decade ago, I could say this is because the company placed too much faith in people like me. But the decline is so broad and so striking that it would be presumptuous of me to take responsibility for it.

While Apple continues to gain market share in many products [the Mac had 3.82 percent market share in Q4 2009--Paul], Microsoft has lost share in Web browsers [but IE 8 is now the worlds' most often-used web browser--Paul], high-end laptops [which represent a tiny minority of this sub-market--Paul] and smartphones. Despite billions in investment, its Xbox line is still at best an equal contender in the game console business. It first ignored and then stumbled in personal music players until that business was locked up by Apple. [Actually, it worked with device, services, and software partners to create a digital media business before Apple ever entered the market, let alone locked it up--Paul.]

It's very easy to be a Monday Morning Quarterback. But if we're going to apply this after-the-fact wisdom to products, how do we explain failures like the Apple TV? It came years after Windows Media Center, and completely ripped off the Media Center UI. (Well, first they came out with Front Row, which ripped off Media Center. Then they used that UI in Apple TV. Whatever.) Apple TV had/has one big advantage over Media Center, of course: It was in a device (i.e. simple) not a full-fledged computer (i.e. compex). And you know what? It completely failed.

So it's cute to point out places where Apple came in after the fact and did a better job. But Apple doesn't always win or get it right, and the Mac, for all its gains, is still a tiny, tiny fraction of the overall PC market. And while Microsoft is definitely on a downward spiral of sorts, let's not all pretend that everything it did didn't actually make plenty of sense at the time.

And let's not forget the record revenues they just posted. That's not too shabby for a company that's supposedly on the way down. Of course, as we also discuss on Windows Weekly, just because a company is big and successful doesn't mean they are interesting or make interesting products. I couldn't care less about IBM, for example.

But then I wrote about that too.

Anyway, there's a lot to discuss here. So I've asked Mary Jo Foley to join me today on Windows Weekly to discuss it all. We're on live at 2pm ET if you're interested.

Comments

 

rr0de74@live.com said:

Another Apple blog spot at iWinsupersite.  The fun never ends.  

What I find really interesting is that you go out of your way to point out these guys were fired (got any proof) so to taint them, make them look bad because Microsoft fired them, so says you, for your simple minded readers, before you present what they said.  Sad journalism and its best.

Battery life on any Laptops (13inch and bigger, with regular keyboards and normal CPU's, HD etc) is and has been better on a Mac or some time especially when comparing identical hardware, say Intel chipset, intel CPU/GPU etc.  Comparing the battery life of a crapbook (netbook) to something Apple does not have is kind of lame.  I guess you could run Windows 7 on a Dell Mini and Hacintosh on the same box crapbook and then compare, but even then Apple has not had a chance to optimize the OS for that hardware.

"how do we explain failures like the Apple TV?"  Apple has always stated Apple TV is a hobby.  They said again just a few days ago.  The content providers are keeping Apple TV and ANY major player from dominating.  Netflix wants to bust out and provide way more content online but Disney is going to pull out possibly because they will start their own service.

arstechnica.com/.../three-years-later-apple-tv-remains-a-hobby.ars

newteevee.com/.../bad-news-for-netflix-disney-wants-more-for-streaming-wall-e

And seriously has Windows Media Center ever been a hit?  Its has been a massive failure on its own and it was never labeled a "Hobby" by Microsoft.

February 4, 2010 9:28 AM
 

uberVU - social comments said:

This post was mentioned on Twitter by thurrott: Fretting the Post-Microsoft Era: Two related items today. The other day, I saw a post from ex-Microsoftie Don Dod... http://bit.ly/aNHPq6

February 4, 2010 9:32 AM
 

EricoF3 said:

Lol ... Nobody wants to run all their apps on the browser... So the underlying OS is really important...

People will only use web based version of application when they are out of office or home and they cannot use their applications on their own computer...

This is a dream to think Cloud App will be a success ... This paradigm exist since the 70's and it never been a success... Why now...

So, without way, I will use the Swiss Army Knife.

February 4, 2010 9:34 AM
 

chuckb84 said:

So, this is almost thoughtful commentary and the two links are good. The tag line in the NYT bit is this,

"Microsoft’s huge profits — $6.7 billion for the past quarter — come almost entirely from Windows and Office programs first developed decades ago. Like G.M. with its trucks and S.U.V.’s, Microsoft can’t count on these venerable products to sustain it forever. Perhaps worst of all, Microsoft is no longer considered the cool or cutting-edge place to work. There has been a steady exit of its best and brightest."

And that is the answer to Paul's remark, "And let's not forget the record revenues they just posted." The profits all come from legacy monopoly products that have origins decades ago.

Most of the other things, Zune, Xbox, Bing, either lose money (Xbox) or are nearly irrelevant in their markets (Zune).

It is striking that Microsoft had a headstart of years over Apple in the mobile software business and is now, at best, on the ropes, and quite possibly not even a player.

For once, Paul even says something sensible about the difference in user experience, design and philosophy between the desktop OS's:

"More specifically, Mac OS X is not intuitive or "easy to use" (in fact it's very Spartan and utilitarian, compared to Windows) ... unless you've been using GUIs like Windows for a long time. Moving from Windows to the Mac (or vice versa) isn't that hard. The basics are all the same."

Spartan and utilitarian, music to my ears! No "wizards", no "Bob", no dancing paperclips, no word processors that constantly change my f**king text without asking me because they think they know better than I what I want to do. Software that just fades into the background. Exactly.

Microsoft is certainly not "going away", but the hegemony days are fading fast. Good thing for everyone, I think.

February 4, 2010 9:35 AM
 

chuckb84 said:

"This is a dream to think Cloud App will be a success ... This paradigm exist since the 70's and it never been a success... Why now..."

Sufficient bandwidth. Maybe. The thing with cloud computing is that it has to be as reliable as any other utility that comes from a "cloud". Nobody talks about "cloud electricity" or "cloud tap water", because we don't have to. When the service is 4 or 5 9's reliable you can take it for granted.

Cloud computing may work, but it needs that kind of reliability and at the present time it it no where close to that. I'd describe the current state of cloud computing as an interesting backup for plain old local computing.

February 4, 2010 9:47 AM
 

tayme said:

@rr0de74 - "What I find really interesting is that you go out of your way to point out these guys were fired (got any proof) so to taint them, make them look bad because Microsoft fired them, so says you, for your simple minded readers, before you present what they said."

Kind of like you posting with certainty that all iPhones are manufactured by Apple...with no proof. When you are proven wrong all we hear from you is the chirping of crickets. You post that kind of stuff regularly with no proof what-so-ever hoping that your friendly iTrolls will read it and believe it. Standard iCabal technique. At least when Waethorn trolls, he usually knows what he is talking about.

On another note - In my opinion, cloud computing will never be a mainstream Enterprise solution in a regulated industry. It will, at best, remain a solution for people like us, that read tech blogs.

--tayme

February 4, 2010 10:00 AM
 

Waethorn said:

Um, so why did Don Dodge buy a Mac instead of a much cheaper netbook with Chrome OS?  He says he converted to a Mac because of battery life, and yet in the same post he also complains about paying more for a platform that includes an OS that he doesn't even utilize.  What kind of drugs were put in his Apple-flavored Kool-Aid?

February 4, 2010 10:07 AM
 

Waethorn said:

@tayme:

Let's not forget that he posted about iPhone security, and was also corrected on.  The iPhone is NOT a secure enterprise messaging endpoint.

February 4, 2010 10:08 AM
 

EricoF3 said:

chuckb84  said: "Sufficient bandwidth. Maybe. The thing with cloud computing is that it has to be as reliable as any other utility that comes from a "cloud". Nobody talks about "cloud electricity" or "cloud tap water", because we don't have to. When the service is 4 or 5 9's reliable you can take it for granted.

Cloud computing may work, but it needs that kind of reliability and at the present time it it no where close to that. I'd describe the current state of cloud computing as an interesting backup for plain old local computing."

This is not my point! I mean I know they can technically work but nobody want their personal document to transit or be on an external server, especially not a Google Server!!!

Personally I prefer doing my stuff in my Applications locally... I don't want servers scanning my files and send me mail pub related to the content of my personal files ... Do you want to??

February 4, 2010 10:13 AM
 

chipwinter said:

I think it would be better to focus on the ex-Microsoft employees who still use and like Microsoft products.

February 4, 2010 10:29 AM
 

Keleko said:

I disagree that Windows 7 is "intuitive" or "easy to use", too.  I have a friend who was just given a Windows 7 laptop to upgrade his old XP system at work.  His comments trying to move stuff from the XP to Windows 7 PC are full of "Tell me how to do it because it's not clear" type stuff.  He's been using XP for years, so it isn't like he's new to Windows.  He owns and has used Macs at home for a few years, so he's familiar with OSX as well.  He's not a typical techy computer user, though.  All he cares is that the OS get out of his way and let him do what he wants.

February 4, 2010 10:35 AM
 

Waethorn said:

@EricoF3:

Google is already making money from your content.  Just see YouTube for a good example.  Ever since Google took over YouTube, every video has had ads placed on it at about the 3 second mark.

Google makes money directly off of your content.  It's bad enough they can't just subsidize their free stuff online with banner ads, but now they blatantly use your content as a marketing tool.

FWIW:  This is what I've warned about when I mention Section 11 of their Terms of Service:

www.google.com/.../TOS

February 4, 2010 10:37 AM
 

Ocean said:

In other words -- these two guys are only criticizing MS because they are bitter.  Is that it?

February 4, 2010 10:48 AM
 

rr0de74@live.com said:

"Kind of like you posting with certainty that all iPhones are manufactured by Apple"

@tayme your logic is warped.  Apple orders the iPhones, some person, probably in some Asian country, working for some company manufactures the iPhone.  I could google the companies, if I really cared.

Those iPhones belong to Apple, and Apple sells them.  Anyone that has an iPhone has a Apple iPhone.  

I assume your comment about me being wrong is in regard to what I said about Microsoft making WinMO hardware.  Well I am not changing my tune, Microsoft does not.  While I am in IT, I work for a retail company.  We have many devices that do one thing, bar code scanning for inventory, that run WinMO/Windows CE in a ruggedized device.  We do NOT buy them from Microsoft.  You don't even see anything about "Microsoft" on the device, even when it turns on.  Microsoft DOES NOT make it.  The company we are buying them from does.  That company does not sell the device as a "Microsoft" device but as their own.

If you buy an iPhone from anyone you are buying a Apple iPhone, from Bestbuy, ATT, Walmart.  Its not a Bestbuy iPhone, or a Walmart iPhone.

February 4, 2010 10:54 AM
 

mikegalos@msn.com said:

chipwinter

"I think it would be better to focus on the ex-Microsoft employees who still use and like Microsoft products."

You mean, people like me?

Oh, and for those reading, Mr. Brass' first name is

D i c k (you know, one of the short forms of Richard) which gets changed by Penton's braindead anti-obscenity filter to ***.

February 4, 2010 10:55 AM
 

rr0de74@live.com said:

"This is a dream to think Cloud App will be a success"

Is that why Microsoft is going to offer free Office 2010 lite via the cloud?

Or should we as the city of LA if the cloud is a dream?

latimesblogs.latimes.com/.../city-council-votes-to-adopt-google-email-system-for-30000-city-employees.html

February 4, 2010 11:01 AM
 

Waethorn said:

@Keleko:

Coming from Windows Vista would be easier than coming from XP.

A computer isn't that intuitive in the first place.  If you've ever tried to explain how to use a computer to someone that has never used one, getting to the point where they become proficient takes a very long time.  Some people just don't understand the file/folder/desktop metaphor.  That's essentially the Microsoft Bob alpha - using a real-life metaphor for something very abstract.  A computer doesn't actually work that way.  Even the filesystem is there for the sake of the user.  Otherwise you would just have disjointed pieces of data in a big lump on the drive.  Generally speaking, the computer hardware doesn't really know the difference between program instructions and your data.  It's all just "data" that needs to be processed in one way or another by the processor.

February 4, 2010 11:05 AM
 

rr0de74@live.com said:

@waethorn...I never said anything about iPhone security, ONLY that is supports Microsoft's Active Sync enforcement policies features.  Those features work exactly the same on a iPhone or WinMO phone.  I use them at work everyday, and iPhone users and WinMo users must have a password on their device and I can remote wipe either one use the same Microsoft tool.

The discussion was never about security it was about supporting iPhones in a corporate environment and how it can be done using the SAME ENTERPRIS MICROSOFT tools you use for WinMo.

February 4, 2010 11:06 AM
 

tayme said:

@rr0de - You were "betting" that iPhones were made by Apple. You were wrong. You regularly state things that you try to pass off as fact, when in reality is not. It is a standard troll tactic. When you are called on it, you go silent - yet another trolling tactic. You have an unusual hatred of Microsoft, a company that is in business to make money. Apple is another company that is in business to make money, and plenty of people have that same unusual hatred for them. People on both sides seem to think that the company that they prefer is in business for angelic purposes. That is simple minded.

For you to spend so much time trolling and bashing MS and everything that they do, along with bashing Paul is telling of the quality of life that you must lead. It is really pretty sad.

--tayme

February 4, 2010 11:16 AM
 

tayme said:

@rr0de - "ONLY that is supports Microsoft's Active Sync enforcement policies features."

You were saying that as "proof" that the iPhone is a enterprise class device. It is not. You were wrong, yet again.

--tayme

February 4, 2010 11:19 AM
 

chipwinter said:

I wouldn't bother with these Microsoft naysayers. Nobody knows the future.

Just five years ago, there were boobs saying that without increasing their OS market share significantly, Apple couldn't possible become a $10 billion company.

Today, Apple's OS market share has moved very little, and Apple's a $50 billion company.

So don't listen to the no-nothing asshats.

February 4, 2010 11:25 AM
 

MacLawyer said:

As an ad hoc Mac administrator, I have to agree with Paul:  take this guy's comments with a grain of salt.  Apple has a great desktop experience but things get ugly pretty quick on the back end.  I'd kill to have some of the deployment tools the Windows boys have.

February 4, 2010 11:26 AM
 

chipwinter said:

A bigger concern is how Microsoft wound up with 5,800 bad employees like Dodge, so bad that they had to fire all of them last year.

February 4, 2010 11:34 AM
 

rr0de74@live.com said:

@tayme I not silent am I?  Please provide a link for a Microsoft made, labeled, or sold by MS WinMo phone.

You are trying to spin this crap not me.  The Zune is a Microsoft device.  Sold by Microsoft.  If I buy a Zune at Walmart its not a Walmart Zune its a Microsoft Zune.

Everyone knows, maybe not you, that Microsoft does not actually make the internal parts, or even put them together (just like the iPhone).

The iPhones the Army bought, are Apple products, not HTC or Motorola sold products.  If the Army is buying devices that have WinMo/CE then they are buying the manufactures device/hardware that has a licensed copy of WinMo/CE probably so hacked that you dont see the word "Microsoft" anywhere.

February 4, 2010 11:36 AM
 

Waethorn said:

"The company we are buying them from does.  That company does not sell the device as a "Microsoft" device but as their own."

The software is made and AFAIK also copyrighted by Microsoft, but Microsoft doesn't uphold IP rights on the software when it's embedded in an OEM devices firmware.  They talked about that somewhere, when asked about XDA-developers and hacking of the ROMs to upgrade or customize Windows Mobile on phones.  They consider the firmware to be the intellectual property of the hardware OEM from which it originated.  They said specifically that the firmware is not Microsoft's intellectual property, and that Microsoft is not in a position to litigate against XDA-developers or any similar website because they don't have a legal say in the matter.  They didn't mention anything about the software contained in the firmware at all, but it was inferred that they understood that point.

That might've been on a video somewhere.

I'm guessing that licensing software designed to be embedded becomes (to some extent) the property of the OEM hardware maker, probably because it can't be easily removed from the device.  I figure it's something like (not exactly, but close to) the way that Microsoft offloads OEM support for preinstalled software.  If it's bundled with a computer, the OEM is responsible for supporting it and Microsoft won't support end-users for OEM software at all (unless they pay for additional support).

Just FYI to other legitimate System Builders (somewhat related):  According to Microsoft, if you want to make a copy of the Windows installation DVD on a USB thumbdrive, but you include the USB thumbdrive on the inside of a computer case (use a USB motherboard header to type-A port adapter), they consider that an acceptable installation method if there is no DVD optical drive included in the system.  According to the SBLA, you can't otherwise make a copy of the DVD bits.  The part of the EULA that bans SB's from copying the DVD is all about it being a removeable drive, but if a USB thumbdrive is installed on the inside of the case, it's not considered removeable anymore.

The image on the USB thumbdrive doesn't have to be customized because it's being offered in place of a DVD drive, and if the user used the original DVD for reinstall, they wouldn't get any of the OEM customizations off it anyway.  The initial install on the hard drive still has to have OEM support information at the very least though.

The rest of the SBLA terms still apply:  you still have to include the original DVD, COA, and booklet.  The nice thing is that you don't have to do a lot of work to build a recovery partition on the hard drive (it's like 12 pages of instructions to go through).  Instead, you buy an adapter and a 4GB thumbdrive (about $15 extra cost on the price of the system - less than the labour for a recovery partition), and just give the user instructions on how to override the boot order and boot off the USB drive.

Startech makes an adapter for such a use if the  motherboards you buy don't have an internal type-A USB port:

www.startech.com/.../USBMBADAPT-6-USB-A-Female-to-Motherboard-Header-Adapter.aspx

A lot of server motherboards have internal USB type-A ports, so using it as a reinstallation system is a good option.

February 4, 2010 11:39 AM
 

Waethorn said:

"ONLY that is supports Microsoft's Active Sync enforcement policies features.  Those features work exactly the same on a iPhone or WinMO phone."

Except that the iPhone doesn't support all of the same policies and security mechanisms as WinMo (which supports the full feature set of ActiveSync), so you're wrong.  Read the article that was posted.

February 4, 2010 11:43 AM
 

Fretting the Post-Microsoft Era | The Software Nook said:

Pingback from  Fretting the Post-Microsoft Era | The Software Nook

February 4, 2010 11:48 AM
 

Keleko said:

@Waethorn

Moving from Vista to Win 7 is most certainly a less jarring upgrade for your typical user.  However, the vast majority of Windows users are going to be going from XP to Win 7 since Vista never got much of a marketshare compared to XP.  This is especially true in the business world where most companies are using XP.

And one person's "intuitive" is another person's "confusion".  You can't say outright one OS (Windows, OSX, or different versions within each OS) is more intuitive than the other.  They're just different.  Some people will find one easier to use than the other.  So a blanket statement calling out OSX as not intuitive is pointless.

February 4, 2010 11:49 AM
 

tayme said:

@rr0de - You said that they were MADE by Apple, not SOLD by Apple. See the difference? Sure they have the Apple logo on them, so they are Apple products...I will give you that. But that is not what you said...just like you changing what you said about them being enterprise class devices. You are trying to change your statement after the fact to meet your needs. It don't work for Obama...it don't work for mikegalos...it don't work for Waethorn...it don't work for you. You said it, you were proven wrong. Live with it.

--tayme

February 4, 2010 11:51 AM
 

johnbaxter said:

"[Microsoft] employs thousands of the smartest, most capable engineers in the world."

That part I agree with completely.

February 4, 2010 11:52 AM
 

daveinla said:

I've had both Mac and PC laptops at home for years. The Mac always get better battery life on average than the PC on equal hardware (now of course you can find a PC laptop with big battery and great life) for these reasons IMO:

- Superior energy savings management both when running, sleeping... (WIn 7 has caught up a lot though)

- Have the same laptop running OSX and then Win (Vista or 7): at idle, the HD never works on OSX. After 1 week of use, there is still 200+MB free RAM and the OS almost never needs to page or use the disk at idle. On Windows, whether the 1st day or 1week later, the HD constantly works !! That drives me nuts ! Better have a silent and vibration-free HD when working on a laptop with Windows installed.

OSX interface very Spartan and Utilitarian ???? LOL !! The interface is always consistent with clear large icons and useful icon the the toolbars of the windows that doesn't require you to dig in menus or contextual menus...

As for the 3.5% people using Macs, Paul, leave your Ivory tower for a while and look around you in house what people use !!! Around me it's 25-30% Macs in the US and maybe 10-20% of my folks in France !! Who cares about these utilitarian boxes corporation buy to run Office and accounting softs ??? Wake up man !

February 4, 2010 12:10 PM
 

tayme said:

@daveinla - "Who cares about these utilitarian boxes corporation buy to run Office and accounting softs ???"

The companies(and their shareholders) that rely upon them to get the work done care about them.

--tayme

February 4, 2010 12:24 PM
 

rr0de74@live.com said:

@tayme always posting about other posters, not about the subject at hand.  Do you work for TMZ, maybe Fox News.

You just like Mike G, where is your link to those made by, sold by, Microsoft branded WinMO phones?????

Better yes you say...  "You were saying that as "proof" that the iPhone is a enterprise class device. It is not. You were wrong, yet again."

Really I am wrong and you are right.   Hmm maybe you should look at...

manuals.info.apple.com/.../Enterprise_Deployment_Guide.pdf

www.microsoft.com/.../03-06EASqa.mspx

Can you provide some information to backup why the iPhone is not an enterprise class device?

February 4, 2010 12:29 PM
 

rr0de74@live.com said:

@tayme look at these results....

www.idc.com/getdoc.jsp

Notice you don't see "Microsoft", why is that?  Because they DONT make phones.

February 4, 2010 12:33 PM
 

Waethorn said:

"So a blanket statement calling out OSX as not intuitive is pointless."

Considering that there are more users on XP than there were on a previous version of OS X, which was easier for your friend to learn?  Upgrading to Windows 7, or switching to a Mac?  Just curious.  Not saying anything about it being more intuitive.  Intuition doesn't play into it if they have experience with previous versions.  Instead, those are just expectations.

February 4, 2010 12:33 PM
 

tayme said:

@rr0de - I believe that you were trying to claim that I said that microsoft manufactured phones. I don't recall saying that. I also never claimed that they have a branded phone...so, I am not sure what you are getting at. The links that you provide describe how to configure an iPhone for Exchange and VPN. Ok, so they can get email and connect to a corporate network. Where are the applications to support an Oracle database...or tools to configure a MS SQL Server. Any of those real ENTERPRISE TOOLS. Hell, I can get email on tons of devices.

iPhones are first and foremost a media player/cell phone device. They are good at that! The network of choice in the US sucks...but, the device is good.

--tayme

February 4, 2010 12:39 PM
 

Waethorn said:

Ok, here we go:

@rrode:  from the link you provided:

"Windows Mobile still delivers the premier mobile e-mail experience for Microsoft Exchange Server, by delivering the Outlook experience on a mobile phone and with the most complete support for Exchange’s many enterprise device management policies"

"Our goal with Exchange ActiveSync was to create an open solution that lets mobile device makers pick and choose the kinds of features they want to activate. In other words, it’s really up to Apple what features they want to support in iPhone"

There.  That just proves that the iPhone isn't as good at Exchange as Windows Mobile, which counters your claim that it is.

And if you're still in denial, the link posted the other day also concludes the same and it seems like you didn't read it already, so I'll repost it:

www.infoworld.com/.../7-myths-about-iphone-exchange-policies-367

February 4, 2010 12:43 PM
 

Avro said:

Nobody cares about these commodity boxes.  They are the milk floats of computers.

blacktelephone.files.wordpress.com/.../picture-3431.jpg

February 4, 2010 12:48 PM
 

Waethorn said:

Just in case you didn't actually read the article after the second posting of it, here's a little tidbit:

"A bug fix in the iPhone OS 3.1 update now ensures that iPhones and iPod Touches accurately report back to Microsoft Exchange servers whether they have on-device encryption enabled. Prior to Version 3.1, iPhone OSes reported to Exchange that the devices had on-device encryption despite the fact that no device prior to the iPhone 3G S included that functionality. Because of this, Exchange servers set to allow connections only from devices with encryption enabled -- a federal and state requirement for many organizations -- have been accepting connections from unencrypted iPhones for more than a year."

Here's the original story:

www.infoworld.com/.../apple-betrays-iphones-business-hopes-723

NOT. ENTERPRISE. READY!

----

Hey, DRWAM.  How would iPhone users in your organization feel about not being HIPAA compliant, if they found out that they were supposed to be, but weren't?

February 4, 2010 12:54 PM
 

gorath said:

daveinla, you must surely be delusional to believe that 10% or so of computer users are mac users.

Of the many hundreds of people I know who use computers, there are maybe 4 or 5 that have macs. Now what I see, and what you see is obviosuly not conclusive, but to suggest that they have a 1 in 10 usage is beyond daft.

As for the sparse and utilitarian - this has nothing to do with consistent interfaces or large icons - I believe they're referring to the myriad helpers that exist in windows to point you to the right place. This has been a primary design of windows' UI for quite some time. And whilst annoying at times, it has by now matured to a level whare you don't notice it unless you're specifically paying attention.

OSX on the other hand, has no hints at where you should go to get things done, and assumes a level of prior knowledge. Several tasks still bug me as an only occasional OSX user, such as, how exactly do I open a new seperate browser window without the keyboard?

I've seen numerous new users completely flummoxed by both OSes, but in general, they seem to become self-dependant sooner on windows.

February 4, 2010 1:09 PM
 

Ocean said:

True or false -- good or bad?

"even though it received much public praise, internal promotion and patents, a decade passed before a fully operational version of ClearType finally made it into Windows."

"Microsoft has lost share in Web browsers, high-end laptops and smartphones."

"if you wanted to enter a number into a spreadsheet or correct a word in an e-mail message, you had to write it in a special pop-up box, which then transferred the information to Office. "

February 4, 2010 1:09 PM
 

Keleko said:

@Waethorn  "Considering that there are more users on XP than there were on a previous version of OS X, which was easier for your friend to learn?  Upgrading to Windows 7, or switching to a Mac?"

He was actually a Mac user before he became a Windows user.  His first use of Windows was with 95 when he had to for work.  He's used a Mac from the classic OS days, but we only talked about OS X upgrades.

His statement on Windows and OS X upgrades he's gone through:

"Every time I've had to use a newer copy of Windows, it was a learning experience because I had to find the stuff that Microsoft made completely different.  It's not that they moved it or combined it, it's that they totally changed its name and how it was described.  I've used OS X 10.2, 10.4, 10.5, and 10.6. Things certainly changed, but you could tell it was a progression from what came before... and it all made logical sense. You could stare at it and the light bulb would go on. That doesn't work with Windows."

So expectations are that things should be similar to the previous version and not be changed for the sake of change.  If it is changed, it should be logical and/or obvious for someone who used the previous version to figure out the new way.  From his point of view that is not the case with Windows upgrades.

February 4, 2010 1:28 PM
 

Waethorn said:

"even though it received much public praise, internal promotion and patents, a decade passed before a fully operational version of ClearType finally made it into Windows."

False.  It was announced at Comdex 98 and released in Windows XP three years later.  It was included in Microsoft Reader a year before XP though, and you could include Windows XP betas.

February 4, 2010 1:29 PM
 

tayme said:

@Ocean - Can you post a link to your blog for us so that we can discuss your topics? It is also customary to include a link and/or at least credit the original author of quoted text.

--tayme

February 4, 2010 1:31 PM
 

gorath said:

"Every time I've had to use a newer copy of Windows, it was a learning experience because I had to find the stuff that Microsoft made completely different. etc etc"

That certainly makes a lot of sense. They do keep trying to re-jig things, for better or for worse.

I'm glad that in Win7, almost everything is laid out how I wish it always had been - and I'm not just referring to the windows 1 era taskbar.

OSX, on the other hand. Even though I'm fine with most of it, the niggles that really annoy me have been there from the start, and will likely never go away! - but consistency from one version to the next is not something to be sniffed at.

February 4, 2010 1:33 PM
 

Ocean said:

Mary Jo just said on Windows Weekly that it is wrong to say "these guys were fired and that's why they are saying this".

February 4, 2010 1:33 PM
 

Ocean said:

Tayme:  those are directly from the NYTimes articles that Paul quoted.

What is your response to that?

February 4, 2010 1:34 PM
 

Waethorn said:

@Keleko:

Since OS X.x upgrades are minor, what could you say about going from 9 to X, since that is the last real major upgrade?  Honestly, Microsoft hasn't done minor upgrades since the 9x days.  Windows 2000, XP, Vista, and the possible exception of Windows 7, have all been major upgrades from a UX standpoint.

February 4, 2010 1:35 PM
 

rr0de74@live.com said:

@tayme keep dancing brother.  Nice game change.  I never talked about SQL tools for any mobile phone, that is way off the subject of being able to manage smarphones in a corporation.  The Factor must be your favorite show.

"Hell, I can get email on tons of devices." So you are smarter than a 5th grader so what, can you do this with "tons of devices"....

Supported Exchange ActiveSync Policies

The following Exchange policies are supported:

Enforce password on device

Minimum password length

Maximum failed password attempts

Require both numbers and letters

Inactivity time in minutes

The following Exchange 2007 policies are also supported:

Allow or prohibit simple password

Password expiration

Password history

Policy refresh interval

Minimum number of complex characters in password

Require manual syncing while roaming

Allow camera

Require device encryption

Can remotely push it?

February 4, 2010 1:38 PM
 

rr0de74@live.com said:

@Ocean Tayme is posting about your post....:)

February 4, 2010 1:39 PM
 

Waethorn said:

@rrode:

"So you are smarter than a 5th grader so what, can you do this with "tons of devices"...."

That, and more, can be done with the 30 million Windows Mobile devices already in use.  How many tons of devices would that make?

Funny that you include the function that Apple decided to "support" even though their hardware couldn't do it:

"Require device encryption"

February 4, 2010 1:44 PM
 

Ocean said:

And my post comes from the article Paul quoted.

February 4, 2010 1:45 PM
 

rr0de74@live.com said:

@wae you are correct about the on device encryption.  Windows Mobile 6.1 and iPhone's 3GS those policies.  You also need Exchange 2007 or higher to even require it.  So the iPhone, 3G or Windows Mobile 5.0/6.0 cant support device encryption, nor does Exchange 2003, the most widely used Exchange Server version in service today.

I guess Windows Mobile 5/6 and Exchange 2003 is "NOT ENTERPRISE READY!"  Or should I quote another of your favorites "FAIL"

All that information is in the Apple iPhone Enterprise Deployment Guide that I linked.

February 4, 2010 1:48 PM
 

tayme said:

@rr0de - In the discussion in question, you said the following:

"Sorry "Enterprise" functions for any SmartPhone is the ability for the Corporation to control/lockdown the phone.  Its mandatory for some corporations because of things like PCI and other regulations."

That is only a single aspect of Enterprise functionality. The things that I mention are some of the other aspects. There are many, many more. You seem to think that email is the ONLY aspect. You are wrong.

--tayme

February 4, 2010 1:54 PM
 

tayme said:

@Ocean - Thanks for pointing out what you were quoting. Like I said, that is customary...you should get your own blog for us to read.

--tayme

February 4, 2010 1:56 PM
 

chuckb84 said:

"Several tasks still bug me as an only occasional OSX user, such as, how exactly do I open a new seperate browser window without the keyboard?"

File>New Window

Huh. The usual complaint is about NOT being able to use the keyboard....that's "command-N".

BTW, there is a very cool OS X utility called KeyCue. If you press and hold the "command" key you get a semi-transparent overlay on top of the active program that shows ALL the command-key options in that program. Very cool. Spartan and utilitarian :).

February 4, 2010 2:01 PM
 

Waethorn said:

@rrode:

You fail to see the point:  Apple led purchasers to believe that it did support device encryption when it didn't by circumnavigating security policy restrictions.  Apple also quietly fixed the problem without warning IT departments of the issue.  Apple lied, and security was compromised because of their own incompetence.  Windows Mobile 6.1 was out long before the iPhone 3GS and iPhone OS 3.2, as was Exchange 2007.

Their whole attitude towards IT security is what makes them enterprise un-ready.

You can justify your use of iPhones all you want, but you're wrong about the iPhone offering the same level of ActiveSync support and security, and I pity your clients.

February 4, 2010 2:06 PM
 

EricoF3 said:

@ Waethorn : This is why I think we should not give one more tools (Cloud things) that wil let Google and cie to intrude our life even more.

February 4, 2010 2:11 PM
 

EricoF3 said:

@Waethorn: What you told is true only if I diffuse stuff on the net... You tube etc... So... Don't give Google more handle...

February 4, 2010 2:15 PM
 

gorath said:

@chuckb: aha - see, it's obvious once you know how. I was always trying to think you could do it with the dock, or just resorting to ctrl-n. Especially since most mac-heads despise "windows style dropdown menus" hehe!

it's all swings and roundabouts with various OSs.

(for what it's worth, KDE is one of the most indecipherable car-crashes of a GUI I've ever seen)

February 4, 2010 2:16 PM
 

Ocean said:

I don't get what you're saying Tayme.  Paul made a big deal about this article.

I'm asking if the following facts (from the article) are false:

"even though it received much public praise, internal promotion and patents, a decade passed before a fully operational version of ClearType finally made it into Windows."

"Microsoft has lost share in Web browsers, high-end laptops and smartphones."

"if you wanted to enter a number into a spreadsheet or correct a word in an e-mail message, you had to write it in a special pop-up box, which then transferred the information to Office. "

February 4, 2010 2:17 PM
 

shark47 said:

Re. Don Dodge, if what he says is true, it means he was lying to all those small business owners to sell them MS technology. What is to stop him from lying to them again to sell Google's technologies now? If within two days you go from endorsing a company to panning them, I don't think the problem is with the company.

February 4, 2010 2:18 PM
 

Waethorn said:

"if you wanted to enter a number into a spreadsheet or correct a word in an e-mail message, you had to write it in a special pop-up box, which then transferred the information to Office. "

This is in regards to tablet handwriting functionality, and it's because Microsoft wanted global tablet functionality regardless of the application, which I think is the proper way to do it.  Requiring that applications have to have their own tablet functionality coded in is the WRONG way to support handwriting recognition.  I favour Microsoft's method, whereby the application doesn't have to be tablet-aware at all, and the operating system controls the user input device and translates something abstract (handwriting) into something the application will understand (text).  So in response, it is true, and IMHO, for the right reason.

February 4, 2010 2:24 PM
 

daveinla said:

Speaking about take a look at that:

www.tuaw.com/.../macomfort-brings-a-little-mac-back-to-your-pc

It brings the super convenience of OSX' Quicklook to Windows explorer !

February 4, 2010 2:24 PM
 

Waethorn said:

@sharky, re: more humour:

"You can get beautiful screens on a PC too, but you usually have to upgrade significantly and pay extra."

I got a beautiful screen on my ThinkPad Edge, but Apple doesn't sell a $629 laptop.

Also case in point:  Apple's new 27" iMac screens.  Built by LG apparently.  I know a person that has a corporate digital display company and he WILL NOT touch anything from LG or Samsung.  He calls them as they are:  cheap pieces of SH#T (I know someone that also had a Samsung DLP TV that died one month after the 1 year warranty was up - that was after he had to put a $360 replacement bulb in it only 3 months after buying it).  Clearly that point is lost on Apple.

February 4, 2010 2:31 PM
 

Waethorn said:

@daveinla:

And what purpose that does application really serve besides what the preview pane and status bar doesn't already do in Windows 7?

February 4, 2010 2:35 PM
 

Ocean said:

"Apple doesn't sell a $629 laptop."

You'll get a lot more for the $350 if you buy a $999 Mac laptop

February 4, 2010 2:37 PM
 

Waethorn said:

re: the iMac 27" screen point

Forgot to mention all the problems with them, but I'm sure everybody here is grown up enough to acknowledge that they've been a complete disaster.

February 4, 2010 2:38 PM
 

Keleko said:

@Waethorn

"Since OS X.x upgrades are minor, what could you say about going from 9 to X, since that is the last real major upgrade?"

I'm not sure I'd call the upgrades minor.  True, they are more frequent since Apple went from 10.1 to 10.5 in the space of time it took MS to go from XP to Vista.  But, since Apple doesn't change the UI significantly between updates, they don't appear to be that major each time.  MS prefers to make larger, more sweeping changes to both the OS and the UI with each separate release of Windows.  Service Packs for Windows are certainly not minor in the amount of things changed, either, but the UI doesn't generally change that much after a SP is installed, either.  So Apple's updates are somewhere between a Windows SP and full release.

Here's his comment on the OS 9 to OS X switch.  "As for going from OS9 to OS X, it was different but not significantly so because some of the same design philosophy carried over. It wasn't strange."

February 4, 2010 2:38 PM
 

Waethorn said:

"You'll get a lot more for the $350 if you buy a $999 Mac laptop"

$629 is in $CDN.  Cheapest CDN Mac is $1099.

And FYI:  No you don't.

And BTW:  Your math sucks.

February 4, 2010 2:41 PM
 

mikegalos@msn.com said:

Some dates

ClearType demoed at Comdex - 11/1998

ClearType ships with Reader on Pocket PC - 8/2000

ClearType ships with Windows XP - 10/2001

Not sure that ***'s definition of "a fully operational version of ClearType " is but Windows XP had ClearType 14 months after the initial shipment of any version of ClearType.

For that matter, "a decade" after ClearType shipped hasn't even happened yet - that won't happen until this August.

February 4, 2010 2:42 PM
 

shark47 said:

"You'll get a lot more for the $350 if you buy a $999 Mac laptop"

I sure hope so. For 33% more, you better get something.

That said, I didn't find much of a difference between a $650 Lenovo and a $999 MacBook. The Mac was better in some areas and the Lenovo was better in others.

February 4, 2010 2:43 PM
 

Ocean said:

Wae -- why so crude?

February 4, 2010 2:45 PM
 

Keleko said:

"I favour Microsoft's method, whereby the application doesn't have to be tablet-aware at all"

I think that's the wrong approach.  If you want an application to work well with a tablet, it must be tablet aware.  Otherwise you're getting a half-assed experience.  A separate dialog popping up for handwriting recognition before entering it into the app is a UI failure for me.  That's the OS getting in the way of me doing my job.  I want to enter the data directly into the spot it should go, not some disconnected dialog.  Would you be okay with a dialog popping up for keyboard input, too, because the app isn't "keyboard aware"?  I'll bet not.

Now, I do agree that the OS should handle the input itself.  The app shouldn't care how the input gets there.  But it should not require the OS to "get in the way" to do it.

I personally think any UI depending on handwriting recognition is a FAIL these days.  Handwriting, for good or bad, is going out of style.  My handwriting, and everyone else's I know, is really lousy.  Trying to recognize what people write is very hit or miss even today.  You spend much more time correcting it than entering actual data.  Keyboards, either virtual or real, are far more reliable.  Plus handwriting input requires a stylus, which I can tell you get lost very easily.  I used the old Palm OS with graffiti for years, and I was very happy to have a Treo with a keyboard when I got it so I could stop with the graffiti nonsense.

February 4, 2010 2:53 PM
 

Ocean said:

"I think that's the wrong approach.  If you want an application to work well with a tablet, it must be tablet aware. "

It just makes sense.  Maybe that's why MS struggles with it.

February 4, 2010 2:57 PM
 

Waethorn said:

"I think that's the wrong approach.  If you want an application to work well with a tablet, it must be tablet aware.  Otherwise you're getting a half-assed experience."

I should correct the wording of what I wrote.  In his example he was talking about handwriting recognition.  What is that?  That's where you input handwriting and it gets converted to text.  Absolute NO application needs to have that independent functionality.  None.  What a program might need, is to allow a user to input handwriting, and to record it as such.  The applications DOES NOT have to be tablet-aware for that to happen - it only needs a simple drawing/pen tool like a paint program, and needs to have standard cursor access -- something it can do with a mouse cursor.

"Would you be okay with a dialog popping up for keyboard input, too, because the app isn't "keyboard aware"?"

See that's where you completely don't understand the way applications work.  Applications aren't "keyboard-aware" or not aware.  They just simply expect text from the user.  The user uses a keyboard, and it's the OS that controls that and forwards input to the application.  That's exactly what they did with handwriting recognition.

Here's a couple of other ways to look at it:

Photoshop is also not tablet-aware.  It accepts input from the device, as a mouse cursor, and also accepts pressure support so long as the driver for the tablet interface relays it from the hardware.  The OS is doing all the work though.

Also, if you have no keyboard or you have some kind of accessibility problem, Windows has an on-screen keyboard (I'm guessing Mac's do too but IHNI).  That's called Windows intercepting touch interface and converting into digital text.  The application doesn't have to have an on-screen keyboard built in to support that - Windows does all the work at interfacing with the hardware and converting it into text for the application.

Would you want application developers to have to add in that functionality too?

Just FYI:  Graffiti is a joke.  Microsoft fixed that with Transcriber in Pocket PC's that let you write in plain English (or whatever language) anywhere on the screen.

Also FYI:  Real "tablet-aware" applications are ones that actually record handwriting as handwriting.  OneNote is a prime example.  It also supports text input, but of course, Windows will convert your handwriting for you.  OneNote's primary purpose is to give you an electronic clipboard/scrapbook where you can keep handwritten notes intact though.

February 4, 2010 3:21 PM
 

EricoF3 said:

Heyyy!! The return of Mike Galos!!

February 4, 2010 3:38 PM
 

Dipsh t Admin said:

"You'll get a lot more for the $350 if you buy a $999 Mac laptop"

How so?  The ThinkPad Edge is quite nicely equipped, and you can get more RAM standard, faster hard drive, the same LED backlit display, and the superior ThinkPad keyboard.  All in a package that is 1 pound less.

February 4, 2010 3:48 PM
 

Ocean said:

" Graffiti is a joke. "

Perhaps so...but it was hugely popular.  

Kinda like Windows, eh?

February 4, 2010 3:50 PM
 

EricoF3 said:

Waethorn is right! Another examples of that is peoples that work with electronic pen and drawing pad to work in Photoshop for exemple. They develop a real aptitude to control the OS GUI using the pen and drawing pad, no mouse anymore is necessary anymore, and it is a show to see these people working because ... you know what... It is really effective... They control the OS faster then you whit a mouse!!!

Like Waethorn explain, Windows GUI is not Drawing pen aware... It is just input aware... It will work whit any input device... So no need to application to be aware of anything... This will just work...

The only thing is for finger touch... The only prerequisites is the app GUI should has large control enough to be usable with fingers...

For the rest... not matter...

February 4, 2010 4:01 PM
 

EricoF3 said:

Ocean  said: "" Graffiti is a joke. " Perhaps so...but it was hugely popular. Kinda like Windows, eh?"

Which is not a joke...

February 4, 2010 4:03 PM
 

rr0de74@live.com said:

@Erico Dare to Dream....

news.cnet.com/8301-1009_3-10447483-83.html

Big Blue announced Thursday a contract from the Air Force to design and demonstrate a cloud computing environment for the USAF's network of nine command centers, 100 military bases, and 700,000 personnel around the world.

February 4, 2010 4:16 PM
 

panache1023 said:

MikeGalos,

Nice to see your factual postings.

I miss your anti-apple comments and pro-MS diatribes.

Please come back soon!

(No sarcasm.  I'm being totally honest)

February 4, 2010 4:33 PM
 

chuckb84 said:

"@chuckb: aha - see, it's obvious once you know how. I was always trying to think you could do it with the dock, or just resorting to ctrl-n. Especially since most mac-heads despise "windows style dropdown menus" hehe!"

WIndows ctrl == Mac command, hence ctrl-n maps to command-n. Most other common commands translate the same way, command-x, command-c, command-v, etc.

Nothing wrong with dropdown menus, the abomination is putting multiple menubars in every window.

February 4, 2010 5:05 PM
 

roteague said:

Microsoft responds to *** Brass: 'We measure our work by its broad impact'

www.engadget.com/.../microsoft-responds-to-***-brass-we-measure-our-work-by-its-br/

February 4, 2010 5:22 PM
 

DRWAM said:

And you trust the word of a disgruntled fired employee?

Google is better than Outlook? Bullsh*t! That's anger talking [or typing], or plain insanity.

February 4, 2010 6:01 PM
 

daveinla said:

Wae: Quicklook in OSX 10.5-10.6 is an awsome little thing that saves you lot of time. When you push the space bar on any selceted item (mp3, pdf, doc, xls, divx, mp4...) it will show the document in a pop-up window with controls without loading the required app. That's an awsome way of seing the content of a file without the hassle of launching the app. You can't live without it once you tried it ! But the Windows hack here doesn't seem to open the doc, but more a as you say display a properties panel... too bad !

February 4, 2010 6:03 PM
 

roteague said:

"But the Windows hack here doesn't seem to open the doc, but more a as you say display a properties panel..."

Windows has a built in interface, call IFilter, that application vendors can implement that allows the document to be displayed from within Explorer or other places (including Outlook). So, I'm not sure what you are referring to.

February 4, 2010 6:32 PM
 

DRWAM said:

Actually Dave, the 10% in US seems real. Anecdotal, but all but two guys not practice of 26 doctors have a Mac [usually more than one], and now many have iPhones. They all need Windows for PACS, though. I'm wondering if a big part of this is because the ActiveX control for PACS, was very buggy on Vista, due the laziness of the vendor not updating it. They all want XP on their Macs for it, but use most use Mac OS for everything else. 3 have Pro Towers, while the rest have iMacs. The iMacs have an appeal since it is an all-in-one, decreasing the under-desk space. Two with a new 27in iMac have no problems at all,  but obviously something was wrong since Apple halted sales for a while.

February 4, 2010 6:33 PM
 

gorath said:

I don't think I've ever seen multiple menunbars in any single window.

The one menubar for all apps in OSX is a double-edged sword. On the one hand, it looks neater and consumes less space on a single screen. (whether this still holds true on larger screens is an often debated topic) However, using it on dual monitors become a pain really quickly, where you have to move the cursor all the ay to the top of the opposite screen to do anything menu-related.

February 4, 2010 6:50 PM
 

DRWAM said:

I don't understand why it says " but all but two guys not practice of 26 doctors have a Mac" , but I typed "but, all but two guys in my practice of 26 doctors have a Mac". Strange.

Back OT, I use Outlook, Entourage and Google. Google sucks.

February 4, 2010 6:53 PM
 

DRWAM said:

Gorath, just add an alias for the app folder on the second screen [anywhere you want], and you won't need to move  to the opposite one, to open an app. Also, you can assign a 'hot key' to open application folder, any folder or a certain app, as well. It' easy to do in preferences.

February 4, 2010 6:57 PM
 

Keleko said:

@Waethorn

I do know how applications work, since I code for a living.  I do know the OS handles the input and hands it off to the application.  My problem is when the OS gets in the way when accepting that input to hand it off to the application, like the handwriting dialog for Office.  Why you're okay with that poor implementation for handwriting I just don't understand.  If it were necessary for the OS to do that for a keyboard, it certainly wouldn't be okay by anyone's standards.

Now, OneNote is an example of an application done right for tablet usage.  So why isn't the rest of Office able to work that well with a tablet?  Apple has realized this is necessary for the iPad, so they're releasing iPad friendly iWork applications.  I suspect they will work very well with the iPad interface, just like OneNote works well on a tablet PC.  So the application needs to be "tablet aware" in that it has functionality that takes advantage of that type of interface.  I doubt anyone puts in handwritten notes in OneNote using a mouse, so that part of it is useless without a tablet, but it is very useful if you use one.

And yes, graffiti was mostly a joke, though it did work well enough for Palm for years and made it a success.  I've used Pocket PC from versions 4-6 (not yet 6.5+) and not found the handwriting recognition to be any better, either.  That's mostly because my handwriting sucks, as I mentioned.  Handwriting interpretation will NEVER be a useful input method for me for that reason.  Give me a keyboard, virtual or real, any day.

February 4, 2010 7:17 PM
 

DRWAM said:

Our head it guy used to use a tablet before he bought a MBP, butu he always hand wrote on the tablet...always.

Gorath, I found another cool solution for the dual monitor set up. Put the dock on the right side of the left screen, or the left side of the right screen, and the dock is always in the middle of your work space. I still prefer my wide screen [with TV tuner] than my dual std screen set up.

February 4, 2010 7:26 PM
 

Ocean said:

"And you trust the word of a disgruntled fired employee?"

Are the facts in his article true?  ON the Windows Weekly podcast, Mary Jo Foley said they were (I watched it live) and that his claims (internecine fighting) are something that MS is working to fix.

Once a again, the person Paul invited on his podcast to rebut the article, actually supported it.  She even said he was over the tablet division, and that the timing is appropriate due to the recent release of that "magical revolutionary" device from Apple.

February 4, 2010 7:51 PM
 

Ocean said:

"'We measure our work by its broad impact'

MS has inertia, not momentum or impact.

February 4, 2010 7:58 PM
 

gorath said:

I don't particularly want the dock in the midle of my screen, I want the menu bar on both monitors.

Or, you know, in each application's window ;)

February 4, 2010 8:03 PM
 

Ocean said:

In MS responsem, they did not rebut his claims.

February 4, 2010 8:05 PM
 

DRWAM said:

Understandable. but actually Gorath, the Dashboard opening in the middle of the screen is annoying. I like my Vista Widgets on the side. Also, Dashboard used F12 key on my computer, which gave me and all my group using Macs, a problem with our Citrix app hotkey. I disabled it. It sometimes worked with option or Apple key, but disabling was better. Unfortunately, the guys with the 27 in iMac have F12 for the volume key. You can see their plight. This makes the dock problem less important.

February 4, 2010 8:17 PM
 

whiplash55 said:

Counting Microsoft out of the next round of innovation might be a mistake. Google is basically trying to give away a bunch of garbage (Google Apps) in order to get ad. dollars. At some point the quality of applications become important, in which case Microsoft and Apple are vastly superior.  

February 4, 2010 8:42 PM
 

chuckb84 said:

"I don't think I've ever seen multiple menunbars in any single window.

The one menubar for all apps in OSX is a double-edged sword. On the one hand, it looks neater and consumes less space on a single screen. (whether this still holds true on larger screens is an often debated topic) However, using it on dual monitors become a pain really quickly, where you have to move the cursor all the ay to the top of the opposite screen to do anything menu-related."

What I really meant was a menubar in every window, which is very confusing.

It's even worse if you have a "mutiple document interface" with a window in a window. If both windows have a menubar and you maximize the daughter window the end result is two menubars, one right under the other....one of the strangest looking user interface "designs" I've ever seen.

I have to think that was basically an accidental side effect of other Windows design decisions.....I can't imagine anyone allowing that on purpose.

The single menubar is.....spartan and utilitarian :). It is also devoid of confusion, because there is never any confusion about where you should look for options on user actions. (it also uses Fitts law to the max).

I somewhat agree about the two monitor issue. Try this:

http://blog.boastr.net/?p=3

It gives you a second menu bar. Buggy, because it's an alpha release. Apple should put this in the OS as an option.

February 4, 2010 8:52 PM
 

Ocean said:

Gruber just said the same thing I did -- why did MS respond without "refuting any of his claims, most especially his core premise that Microsoft is divided into dozens of bureaucratic fiefdoms that fight against each other to protect their turf"?

February 4, 2010 10:56 PM
 

rr0de74@live.com said:

Here is a counter to Paul's BS.  Fired...Spurned???

www.techcrunch.com/.../microsoft-loses-don-dodge-this-is-a-huge-mistake

More like he does not agree with Paul, and he can make money doing something else.....like working for Google.

news.cnet.com/8301-13515_3-10399237-26.html

I can only imagine the vast knowledge of Microsoft that he has brought to Google.  MS will be paying for that mistake for a while.

February 5, 2010 12:14 AM
 

mikegalos@msn.com said:

A correction:

The second date should be

ClearType ships with Reader on Windows - 8/2000

The PocketPC release was earlier in 2000. August was when the PC version was added to the lineup.

February 5, 2010 2:39 AM
 

robertsjoe said:

"Mac, for all its gains, is still a tiny, tiny fraction of the overall PC market"

Even so, the Mac is a far superior to the PC. Both in hardware and software (operating system and application). Windows and PCs are a distant second, and Microsoft's numbers can't change that fact.

February 5, 2010 3:39 AM
 

robertsjoe said:

It shows weakness and paranoia that Microsoft felt they needed to respond: blogs.technet.com/.../measuring-our-work-by-its-broad-impact.aspx

ClearType wouldn't even be something Microsoft thought of if it wasn't for Steve Jobs and the true fonts they introduced on the Mac. Microsoft simply don't have the taste to even think of things like that.

February 5, 2010 3:41 AM
 

robertsjoe said:

And the XBox360? Third in a three horse race. Wonderful!

February 5, 2010 3:42 AM
 

gorath said:

ChuckB, whilst I understand what you mean now, I still don't think I've seen any windows app where there's more than one menu bar.

Toolbars, maybe, with a set of tool icons, but never an actual menu bar.

February 5, 2010 7:56 AM
 

lotsamystuff said:

"Wae -- why so crude?"

He's a Canadian with an inferiority complex. Yes, that's redundant, but Wae takes it to a whole new level. It's sad, really. Maybe he ate one too many McDonald's Angus Burgers with a side of Poutine and got Mad Cow disease or something. You never know.

February 5, 2010 8:58 AM
 

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February 14, 2010 5:07 AM
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