Does this explain Mac fanatics?

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The iPhone Blog » Blog Archive » Thurrott Steps Out of the iPhone Closet - Wait-a-Thon!

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Thurrott Steps Out of the iPhone Closet - Wait-a-Thon!

PhoneDifferent — Wed, 12 Mar 2008 13:45:07 GMT

Longtime Windows pundit Paul Thurrott has always had a difficult relationship with Apple. He has a MacBook, uses iPods, and link baits Apple fanboys every chance he gets. While his original iPhone 1.0 review was mixed (or honest, as...

re: Does this explain Mac fanatics?

Dude1313 — Thu, 06 Mar 2008 15:27:02 GMT

"Windows fanatics are almost non-existent. This is a myth. There are far more Mac fanatic trolls online than Windows fanatic. I'm not sure I've ever actually even met a Windows fanatic".

Paul, I actually can't believe you said this... do you truly believe this to be the case? Apparently Windows users walk on water, while mac users are responsible for all of ugliness in the online world? PC users are ALWAYS civil and always cordial? Excuse me while I go fish out those hip waders, its getting thick in here...

And sorry you are not objective in your opinions nor your analysis of Apple.

Fine, you want to call out Apple. Do so. That is not what those who use Macs object to. As far as I can see the objection is that you claim to be objective and hold Microsoft to the same standards in your reviews, when clearly you don't. As other have noticed you offer up "beach balls" to anything MS related, while apparently Steve Jobs is on some personal vendetta to ruin your life through his "minions".

I for one would be completly fine with you bad mouthing Apple if you dropped the sanctimony about it. What I do object to is the fact that you arguments are argued from a place you claim to take a stand from and clearly its not.

re: Does this explain Mac fanatics?

Mum — Mon, 03 Mar 2008 18:53:58 GMT

Did you know you can stick 4gb ram in a MacBook and it works? Yes: Apple lied about that too.

re: Does this explain Mac fanatics?

Cfischer83 — Sat, 01 Mar 2008 04:25:38 GMT

Paul... you better not get a bid head reading all these comments. I know it would be hard being right so much and remaining humble ;)

re: Does this explain Mac fanatics?

lotsamystuff — Fri, 29 Feb 2008 18:23:32 GMT

cesjr: I'm sure Paul has Daring Fireball on his RSS reader, but thanks for posting that story. Sadly, the Windows Fanatics will see those unbelievable comments as a "fair and balanced" approach to criticism.

re: Does this explain Mac fanatics?

cesjr — Fri, 29 Feb 2008 18:03:40 GMT

johnpapola - "Apple's model wouldn't have allowed that. Instead, Apple's innovation in software paved the way for much of our current system software and interface work.

So paradoxically, Microsoft ended up being the best thing for PC hardware and Apple the best thing for PC software. Without Microsoft, I doubt we'd have fast, cheap intel macs, and without Apple, I doubt we'd have a nice gui, media interfaces or general ease of use in Windows."

Amen brother, I've always thought the same thing. As bad as MS can be sometimes, it is NOT the case that they do no good. They've done a lot of good.

Unfortunately most of the good they've done is in the past - that could change but they need to stop being anti-competitive. They just need to compete on merit. Frankly, I'm not sure they want to do that.

re: Does this explain Mac fanatics?

cesjr — Fri, 29 Feb 2008 17:58:41 GMT

For Paul - possibly the best recent example of how completely crazy and out-of-touch with reality Paul's comment was regarding the absence of windows fanatics:

"The other day I wrote a piece, Things I Learned At The Apple Store. It contained some of my impressions (mostly positive) from my first visit to an Apple Store in my local shopping mall. Some of it was tongue-in-cheek, some meant to be funny; and some was meant to reflect in a light-hearted anecdotal way my reaction.

The piece provoked a sh*t storm of reaction. I want to thank those (the large majority) who understood it for what it was -- and whose comments (some critical, some complimentary) were reasonable, connected to reality. But I particularly want to thank the outspoken minority who reacted as if I'd informed them their houses (no, their PCs) were on fire and I lit the match. The venom and hysteria, the rage -- and frankly the stunningly small-minded stupidity -- was refreshing. Like I had said in the piece, I'm a tech idiot. It was my first visit ever to an Apple Store. The piece was presented as anything but a tech story or as something recommending or touting Macs or Apple products; as I said, I could care less about Apple or its products.

What was interesting to me was the "happening" that seemed to be going on at the Apple Store. The vibe and experience. There was a pretty dynamic and positive interplay between customers and store "Geniuses." Old folks and young. People, it seemed to me, were having a lot of fun. Apple, in this store, had clearly tapped into something unusual. The mall was empty; yet the store was filled, like some over-lighted, noisy tech amusement park. Simply put, you just don't see retail environments like this often (if ever). [Remember the Dell stores? Or Gateway?-- how are those cow images doing? CompUSA, Staples, Best Buy, etc.?] This place impressed and interested me. But, having now experienced the narrow-minded insipidness of some of the Apple Haters (I'd never even heard of "Apple Haters" until after I wrote the story), I'm interested in you (Apple Haters) too....

Really, what the f**k is wrong with you? What is it that you're apparently so insecure about? Do you have lives? Did some of you get any kind of education past high school? At work, do you ever leave your cubes? Do you ever have sex (with other human beings)? Is it fun to be rage-filled? Have you ever tried not to be so pissed off? Are you aware of critical adjectives other than, dumbass, moron, you suck, etc.?

Here are just a few of the "negative" reactions and comments (and, yea, not all are limited to the few choice adjectives)....To my surprise, most of them were answered by other commenters a lot more effectively and eloquently than my admittedly flippant responses below. Still, I can't resist a few....

"You totally suck..."

"Dumbass, dumbass, dumbass..."

"I've never met more stupid morons..."

"You are the biggest idiot ever...idiocy is an understatement..."

[These are tough ones. Not sure what "stupid" adds to "morons"; are there morons who aren't stupid?; are stupid morons more moronic than morons who aren't stupid? It's confusing. Same with "idiocy" being an "understatement" -- what exactly would that make me, stupider, more moronic than an "idiot"? The passion is impressive but the clarity, not so much.]

"I have never read anything more ignorant and factually inaccurate as this article..."

"This is the dumbest thing I have ever read..."

[Have you read John Grisham's latest novel? Or that guy's book that denies the Holocaust or WWII ever happened? Try the book by Tolosani, excoriating Copernicus for claiming the earth rotates around the sun. Those are pretty dumb and ignorant too.]

"Go find some play-dough or something, leave thinking to the big boys..."

[I love play-dough, always have; so, if that's your criteria, you're right, I'm pretty dumbass. Thing is, who are the "big boys"? Are they you and your friends? What do you think about, other than stupid? Let's see...that Apple isn't doing well; that the Apple Store isn't a scene; that the fact that it is such a scene and a magnet for people of all ages is, what, made up, dumbass, double dumbass? Guess what, there wasn't much attempt at thinking at all in the piece -- it was a collection of impressions and the impressions were pretty positive about the store, the goings-on, the excitement there. So, fine, you do the thinking and, when you're ready and if your heads don't explode from the massive effort, let us know what you've thought.]

"You're a friggin moron, could you use any more stereotypes to cast people at the Apple store?..."

[Let's see. I observed that the Apple sales people, kind of a geeky-looking crew, were "chick magnets." I also observed that some of them, despite their self-effacing, tame outward demeanors, were aggressive, effective "monster" sellers. Thing is, if the observations had been stereotypical, they would've suggested the Geniuses weren't attracting or flirting with girls and weren't big-time aggressive sellers. Remember, pat, over-simplistic, false generalizations (like geeks being weak and shy around girls): Stereotype. Non-pat, unexpected, individualistic descriptions: Not Stereotype.]

"You're just another stupid moron from suburbia pretending to know what you're talking about..."

[Absolutely, on the stupid moron from suburbia. In fact, think I used the word "retard" to describe my expertise; but that's not a lot different than "stupid moron." I didn't pretend or claim to know what I was talking about; I suggested the opposite, remember? Useful tip: It might be helpful to read the piece you're trashing before trashing it. Also, it's true I'm a stupid moron from suburbia; but I'm pretty sure some people out here aren't. I'm guessing there are a lot of people in the burbs who know their sh*t about computers and tech, etc. I don't know them -- and they may think I'm a stupid moron in that area too and wouldn't want to hang out with me -- but surely they're here.]

"...This kind of anecdotal evidence [that's positive to Apple] would fail a first year journalism student. Hell, in high school that would be marks off any paper...I cringed while reading this..."

[The piece was presented as an anecdotal personal experience. And if you're referring to a comment in the piece in which I said, e.g., Apple has "won"...always good to read the following sentences -- in this case in which I said, "How do I know it's won? I don't." Again, deep breaths, read the 1st line, then the 2nd and, if you haven't exhausted yourself, so on...]

"Your light gray font sucks..."

[Excellent. When you don't like the message, kill the font-creator. Unfortunately, I had nothing to do with the font; but I'll pass on your criticism. How do you feel about magenta?]'

www.burbia.com/.../1619

re: Does this explain Mac fanatics?

johnpapola — Thu, 28 Feb 2008 17:30:43 GMT

Oh... and then there's this...

www.engadget.com/.../microsoft-lowered-vista-requirements-to-help-intel-sell-incompat

Looks like MS execs knew they were outright lying to customers with the Vista capable labeling and did it anyway just to help Intel and presumably help them keep the XP licenses flowing before the Vista release.

That's what you get for your $399 and under. Lies.

re: Does this explain Mac fanatics?

johnpapola — Thu, 28 Feb 2008 15:56:21 GMT

Quick anecdote. Met a business man (healthcare tech consultant) at the airport in orlando. He had two dell laptops (one was a client machine apparently). He saw my macbook pro and asked how I liked it. I said I was a huge apple fan and a former windows user, but didn't go on any kind of sales rant. He said he was going to switch his whole business to Mac because of the huge increase in licensing and support costs for Vista.

Apparently he's part of a small business owners network and the members are all having a terrible time dealing with Vista support and it's costs. He said there was a member running his business on Macs with no support staff at all and loving it and that this was causing the group to all investigate Macs for their operations.

None of these guys were in design, video or any traditional mac market. I found this very interesting. Apparently the slight price premium on mac hardware is totally erased by the Windows support costs and then compounded year of year (since those added costs just keep coming, where hardware costs are a one-time hit).

re: Does this explain Mac fanatics?

johnpapola — Thu, 28 Feb 2008 15:39:03 GMT

Subzero: Man, it's a good thing you're just an uninformed mac-basher and not someone's stock broker. Jobs has delivered more investor value through the massive success of Apple since his return than any other computer or software maker. A quick trip to google finance makes your entire argument a laughing stock. I'd rather be an Apple shareholder than a Microsoft, Dell or HP shareholder since Job's return. Even with it's current decline due to the economic worries, Apple stock is still up over 50% from this point last year.

Seriously. You're out to lunch.

And man, you gotta love these hypocrites when it comes to this Air vs. X300 nonsense. Sure, the air made some questionable compromises. I wouldn't buy. But how exactly can you ding Apple on price, then hold up a machine whose starting price is near $1000 more as an example of Apple's failures? Stupid. X300 looks like a great machine, but not offering a hard drive option is arguably MORE stupid in 2008 than ditching the optical drive. Don't like it? Don't buy it. Funny how none of you look at the $1100 macbook which is an excellent value. I guess because it doesn't work into your biased, blind opinion. As for the Mac mini, I think a quick look at the price of all the Mini clones out there find it to be very competitively priced. You do realize that the PC makers have almost zero profit on these ultra-low cost PCs, right? You do realize that they're simply last year's technology being fire sold, right? You are familiar with the whole Vista-Capable problem on these $399 and under junk machines, right?

Waethorn: "Competition isn't always important... true innovation happens without competition"

You, sir, are out of your damn mind... or you're a deluded Marxist, or both. Either way, reality and your opinions live in opposite realms.

I guess it makes sense since you, a custom PC maker, would prefer less competition for your business. But, what kind of ridiculous statement is this? CLEARLY competition is the SOLE KEY to market health. Just look at the rate of improvement of IE after it killer Netscape and before Firefox took 15% of the market. There was ZERO progress. I know for a fact that Paul wouldn't stand by this moronic statement of yours.

I mean, Jesus Christ, you think competition causes margins to RISE??? Where did you get this idea? A cereal box? A MS brainwashing seminar? The PC hardware business is ULTRA competitive and hence they work on razor thin margins. Meanwhile, the PC OS business has almost no competition (save tiny Apple) and Microsoft enjoys 40%+ profit margins (Windows itself may have margins upwards of 80%). How, mr. bizarro-economist, do you explain the rapid decline of PC hardware prices and the increase average selling price of Windows over the same period?

Waethorn, that single post forever brands you in my mind as the most ignorant, arrogant poster on this site. How about you go read some books on business, economics and friggin' history. Check your damn cable bill. Competition is so crucial to innovation and market health.

I just have to love how Apple-haters base their opinions of the Mac platform's stability and utility on their own incredibly limited and biased anecdotes, even though they clearly don't use it enough to know it. They also clearly hate competition in the market. I have no idea why anyone would wish away choice, unless they have some Nazi-style worldview where only their "one true way" should exist.

You won't find me bashing Vista, since I don't use it and don't really know it. I ditched the Windows platform in 2000, so Win 2000 is the last system I knew well. I'll also say that Microsoft's hardware-agnostic platform is probably the main reason why the personal computer expanded so rapidly and allowed prices to come down... because it encouraged hardware competition.

Apple's model wouldn't have allowed that. Instead, Apple's innovation in software paved the way for much of our current system software and interface work.

I'll give credit where credit is due. What I simply CAN'T STAND is the spewing of ignorance and the wishing away of market choice and competition.

Hey, Paul, I suggest you read your thread. The Windows-loving Apple bashers are right here in full ridiculous force.

re: Does this explain Mac fanatics?

Waethorn — Thu, 28 Feb 2008 05:16:40 GMT

"I'm still surprised the Macbook Hot Air beat it! lol"

That one's for the ultimate MacBook Airheads - Uncle Wally Mossberg and all the rest of the too-tight-turtleneck-wearing lunatics over at the WSJ. Obviously they chose form over function yet again. The review of the X300 is yet more proof of that. It's glaring enough when you look at the allthingsd website - it's all nicely laid out and whatnot, but it's just all full of fluff without any substance.

"If anything, the death of Netscape showed that competition is important."

Really? If anything, that period just shows us that the spark of innovation sometimes just doesn't happen. Competition isn't always important - just look at what happens when you have platform wars! It's all designed to increase margins for hardware manufacturers that try to convince unsuspecting consumers that "their way" is better, and the consumers end up being the biggest losers.

True innovation happens without competition. Every thing else is just evolutionary replication.

re: Does this explain Mac fanatics?

Cfischer83 — Thu, 28 Feb 2008 02:33:40 GMT

FYI, I was kidding about the Commodore ;) ... although I'm still surprised the Macbook Hot Air beat it! lol

@ subzerohitman721:

I couldn't agree with you more!

@ sttevo:

NeXT didn't exactly do well... and just because Steve Jobs predecessor didn't do well with Apple doesn't mean that only he could keep it doing well. I blame HIM solely for the platform wars! He created this whole "us vs. them" mentality. It all started with the 1984 ad, and he's only been building on it since. Once he is gone, the computer industry (and community) will be much better off... assuming his successor isn't the same as he is.

This isn't to say that I want Apple to go under. If anything, the death of Netscape showed that competition is important. We were stuck with IE6 for 5 years before IE7... now with Firefox competing we'll have IE8 about 2 years after IE7's release. Same goes for OSes. Obviously Microsoft is doing most of the innovating and Apple is doing most of the imitating, but it at least keeps Microsoft on it's toes.

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