Even Macworld is noticing Apple's lies

re: Even Macworld is noticing Apple's lies

johnpapola — Thu, 06 Mar 2008 21:09:20 GMT

kanwa...

Regarding feature delivery, the facts are the facts. Apple doesn't demo stuff unless it's gonna be in the product. You call that an excuse, I call that a virtue. MS's early demos are more often intended to scare competitors out of doing something than they are to inform developers. "Well, looks like MS is moving into [insert category], I guess we'll wait for that". "Longhorn's" early demos were done with Macromedia director from what I understand. What's the point? To scare competitors.

I would love to see OSX widely licensed as it's clearly superior to Windows in so many ways. Maybe as Apple's revenue continues to diversify there will come a point where they can re-approach licensing.

However, the reality of the PC market is that it is often a horrible world of finger-pointing and zero accountability thanks to the decoupling of the hardware and software.

"Expandability" has long been a benefit of the PC market, yet doing any kind of modification to a PC instantly renders that change the sole cause of any problems when talking to PC support.

Typical HP/DELL support call:

"Oh, you upgraded your video card? That's why your DVD-burner is no longer recognized by Easy CD creator. Try calling Roxio or ATI or Microsoft, or frankly anyone but us."

Personal example:

I bought the digital download of vista for bootcamp directly from microsoft.com (or what appeared to microsoft.com). They offered and "upgrade" and a "full version". I bought the full version, since I didn't have windows. The download was a .exe that required windows be installed. It didn't even create an install disc. How the hell could you sell a "full version" that implicitly requires a previous version by design?

So I call MS. They told me that "Digital River" handles the store and it's their problem! Called digital river. They said they only sell the bits, and know nothing about how they work or what they are and that I should call MS. Called MS again. They INSISTED that digital river had the answer. I respectfully let the MS support person know that this was the reason I switched to the mac. Called Digital River. They became frustrated because this was apparently a problem they'd heard alot and were tired of MS blaming them. Digital River gave me a refund.

That was 4 hours of my life I'll never get back. An MS support manager called me to follow up. I informed him of the situation and that I thought the download would be a disc image (given that Vista has onerous copy protection built into the core of the OS). He had never heard of such a thing and claimed that digital software retail was "very new". I informed him that I'd been buying mac software as disc images for over 5 years and that they're a simple drag and drop installation from any drive. He was intrigued.

So even in the FRIGGIN PURCHASE OF VISTA ITSELF, the PC world points fingers.

re: Even Macworld is noticing Apple's lies

daveinla — Thu, 06 Mar 2008 04:22:47 GMT

No we are talking difference between Promised and advertised features vs. delivered features. You don't need to be a developer to know the advertised features !

re: Even Macworld is noticing Apple's lies

kanwaljit — Thu, 06 Mar 2008 01:19:22 GMT

I'd be the first one to buy and install OSX on my PC were apple to allow such a combination, just the way Windows can be installed on a mac. I love OSX, but I love my pc more. And I am sure there will be many many like me who have the same opinions. But to buy a new laptop just for OSX, no way! So I stand by my statement that in effect Apple is stifling user choice by locking OSX to apple hardware only.. This is one area in which MS has done good..

Again, since Apple lacks an extensive beta program like MS does, this effectively ensures that whatever new features apple might have proposed and missed in the final version will never be known. Those who say that there was just one feature that failed to make it to the final version of OSX must be the developers of OSX themselves, are you??

re: Even Macworld is noticing Apple's lies

Dipsh t Admin — Wed, 05 Mar 2008 21:35:01 GMT

"Talk about ideological zealotry."

Pot, do you take Kettle to be your wife?

re: Even Macworld is noticing Apple's lies

johnpapola — Wed, 05 Mar 2008 21:10:34 GMT

Subzero is clearly a know-nothing Apple basher. You know, the people that Paul claims don't exist. He bashes with generalizations and lies, while not backing anything up and then changing the subject. Typical.

re: Even Macworld is noticing Apple's lies

johnpapola — Wed, 05 Mar 2008 21:00:50 GMT

btw...

Here's the link to MS's top execs complaining to Steve Ballmer about Vista driver troubles:

www.smh.com.au/.../1204226975087.html

re: Even Macworld is noticing Apple's lies

daveinla — Wed, 05 Mar 2008 20:58:31 GMT

Gee this has to be the longest thread on this blog ever !!!! Paul must be proud !!!

Subzero: Your post has to be the most ridicule one of all on this thread !! laughable ! As John said only one thing is missing from Leopard, and still it was never advertised...

"Microsoft is no angel, but its much further away from the devil than Apple is" laughable again... Who has the more trials and fines on their back from the 2 ???

The only thing Apple did wrong was to lock the iTunes users on iPods... They even face a lawsuit in Europe for that. They deserve it. But I'm glad that now Amazon has changed the game for music download over here.

The critical fixes thing you point has a good reason, and for the same reason linux has more vulnerabilities. They both have open-source kernel. So anybody can put its nose under the hood and find some flaws. It's much harder on Vista.

And what counts anyway is not the number of flaws found, because there always are in softs, it's the time spent to fix them.

You have to give kudos to MS for making a much more secure OS with Vista but it's still no equivalent still.

re: Even Macworld is noticing Apple's lies

johnpapola — Wed, 05 Mar 2008 20:28:02 GMT

Jesus, I can't believe you people are complaining about OSX not running on other hardware. Talk about ideological zealotry. Open hardware has inherently reliability and support problems. If Microsoft's own executive team was having their PC's reduced to "$2100 email machines" by Vista and the third party driver woes that came with it's launch, what makes you think OSX wouldn't fall prey to the same problem.

Again. This is about market choice. If you want a wide-open hardware platform, choose Windows or Linux. If you want a system with dramatically higher reliability (as measured by every neutral consumer survey on record from PC Magazine to Consumer Reports)... and are well served by the hardware choices Apple provides... buy a mac.

Why does this approach bother you people so much?

And Subzero,

Please list for me the demonstrated features that did not ship in leopard. I already know, and am really bummed, that airport disk support for time machine isn't working... though that wasn't explicitly demoed or trumpeted. It just briefly appeared on the website.

Still. You're claiming "more than half of the features of leopard did not make it"... which from what I can tell is an outright lie on your part.

As for viruses... OSX is inherently more secure than XP. The objective facts is that, despite having 3% of the global market, OSX has been hit with ZERO virus attacks and there's only been a handful of trojans identified. So, I think it's fair to say that Mac users are safer than Windows users, security hole or not.

Again. Please back up your Leopard claims with a nice fat list of demoed-then-dropped features. As it stands now, you just look like a liar.

re: Even Macworld is noticing Apple's lies

subzerohitman721 — Wed, 05 Mar 2008 19:00:38 GMT

More than half of the features of Leopard did not make it into the final version. Did Apple pony up and say anything about it? No. Microsoft was open about their problems and changes to Vista. Look at the comments about the iTunes movie rentals and closed captioning? Again, the silent treatment and spin from Apple.

It seems pretty clear that Jobs bashes and spins at Microsoft about everything to Apple's advantage. Microsoft doesn't waste their time with such smear tactics. They promote their agenda without stupid commercials that insults half their consumer base. Even with their campaign against Linux, they told the truth. Thats why Linux doesn't account for much of the PC market.

Microsoft is no angel, but its much further away from the devil than Apple is. At least we get functionality over form with PC's and Microsoft. Apple's Macbook Air is perfect example of their flawed and no justification thinking.Not enough ports, no ethernet ports, and a rediculous price point. Most of their machines lack the versatility I get with a much cheaper PC.

While Apple does a better job these days, its still lacks the professional touch of being as honest. The idea that a PC was bulletproof to viruses and malware was total baloney from Apple. They have more critical fixes than Vista. At least Microsoft has been proactive at fixing these things in a timely manner. Apple just spins it that nothing is wrong with their machines.

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re: Even Macworld is noticing Apple's lies

cesjr — Wed, 05 Mar 2008 17:09:24 GMT

"To say that not allowing OSX on non apple hardware is promoting user experience and choice is as laughable as it can get.."

I realize that it is hard if not impossible for open hardware zealots to realize there are downsides to open hardware. Remember, there's almost always upsides and downsides to everything. Apple's closed approach has downsides too.

Note that a number of windows bloggers have said that it's a lot harder for MS to provide a smooth experience, because of the plethora of PC hardware out there. They've acknowledged this as why there's been more trouble with Vista, for example. In essence I am saying the same thing. This is really not debateable.

""If you remember, Zune adopted the same approach"

Oh, I know. As lotsa said earlier, two wrongs don't make a right."

But is it wrong - limiting DRM to one maker's devices - when the other approach simply fails and does not work? You're arguing that the "right" approach is something that fails. Sorry, you're wrong.

re: Even Macworld is noticing Apple's lies

kanwaljit — Wed, 05 Mar 2008 16:35:47 GMT

To say that not allowing OSX on non apple hardware is promoting user experience and choice is as laughable as it can get.. I think why apple does it is to force consumers buy apple hardware if they want OSX. Maybe they fear that everyone will buy OSX and install it on their PCs otherwise.. In what way this allows choice, beats me! ;-)

re: Even Macworld is noticing Apple's lies

Dipsh t Admin — Wed, 05 Mar 2008 15:52:04 GMT

"If you remember, Zune adopted the same approach"

Oh, I know. As lotsa said earlier, two wrongs don't make a right. I was addressing in particular the point that was being made: that Apple was some altruistic organization that has the consumers in mind. However they are out to make a buck, which there is nothing wrong with that. But many believe that Apple is their friend. This is really not the case.

"And where's your proof they charge higher prices?"

I was thinking mainly of the iPhone.

www.apple.com/.../battery

$85.95 total replacement cost, plus loss of use of your phone. I just replaced the battery in my phone after 1 1/2 years with an OEM replacement from eBay for < $15 with shipping.

"adding this feature would increase bulk some"

microSD cards are so incredibly small, I can't see this as being a problem. It's to keep users on the upgrade treadmill.

At the end of the day, the lack of a replaceable battery and lack of expandable memory make the upgrade decision to iPhone Take 2 that much easier.

re: Even Macworld is noticing Apple's lies

cesjr — Wed, 05 Mar 2008 14:42:15 GMT

"What, like not offer user replaceable batteries in the MBA, iPhone and iPods? And charge higher than normal prices to replace said batteries?"

Non-replaceable batteries have two advantages in a small device - allows a smaller physical form and the device is more durable (the battery door on my Nokia was always coming off)

And where's your proof they charge higher prices? And there are cheaper third-party options usually (just like RAM).

"Not allow OS X to be installed on non-Apple hardware?"

This is done to provide a better customer experience (better integration, fewer problems and what problems exist are easier to fix because of fewer hardware configurations). Look, you can prefer open hardware, but there are downsides to it and it's nice there is a choice in the market. That's good for consumers.

"Not have expandable memory in their iPods and iPhone?"

I do think Apple does this one primarily to force people to upgrade. However, as in the case of removable batteries, adding this feature would increase bulk some and create something else to fail. Sealed memory is trouble-free.

"Offering DRM laden music for years that can only be used in Apple products?"

If you remember, Zune adopted the same approach Why? Because interoperable DRM (Playsforsure) was a nightmare - it never worked. Also, the record companies forced DRM on Apple. They never wanted it and are trying to get it removed.

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