The MacBook Air has no clothes

The MacBook Air has no clothes - Thin Macbook Macbook Pro ♦ Apple MacBook and MacBook Pro News

Thin Macbook Macbook Pro ♦ Apple MacBook and MacBook Pro News — Mon, 28 Jul 2008 19:30:14 GMT

[...] an interesting post was made today on this site [...]...

re: The MacBook Air has no clothes

johnpapola — Mon, 31 Mar 2008 12:30:07 GMT

DPSHT,

"Now. Let's compare Apple's to, well, Apple's here. The x300 only has an SSD drive. It's $3,000 MINIMUM for the MBA too with an SSD. There is a rumored SATA option coming for the X300."

- I realize that. The point is, if you want this kind of light machine. $3000 is the entry point for the x300. I'm not saying Apples-to-apples the MBA is cheaper. I'm saying if you don't want to spend $3000, the MBA provides that choice. The same is true in reverse for the Mac line. If you want a cheap, expandable desktop (say for gaming), Apple doesn't offer that. Apple-bashers attack them for this all the time and it's the same issue. Entry price does matter for some people.

"If Apple's server market share was anything decent, they would NOT be offering unlimited client licensing, I can guarantee that to you."

- Value is value, regardless of the reason. Waethorn's saying Apple always screws their customers. This is one of the many examples where they offer better value.

"And anyone with a shred of honesty has to admit that the various Lenovo and Sony models offer their own unique value mixes"

- And I do agree. I'd rather have an X300 than an Air personally (if it ran OSX). I was merely comparing to disspell that the MBA is either "overpriced" or "underpowered" in it's class. It's demonstrably not either. The MBA is less niche than Table PC. You won't see me claiming tablets shouldn't exist or are made to "screw customers". It's called choice, and I welcome it in all forms. Waethorn does not.

"Replace Apple with MS above. Hate to say a one-lined jab, but I've got a kettle over here just dying to meet you"

- Wrong. I've praised Microsoft for numerous things on this site from the 360, which I own and enjoy, to their innovation in Media Center, tablets and elsewhere. Brostbeef can back me up on this. Waethron, on the otherhand, is a one-sided, simplistic partisan.

Waethorn:

"ya- all 3 of them. basing Mac server solutions exclusively on a rackmount design is a huge mis-step on apple's part. it's no wonder nobody buys the stuff."

- Leopard Server + Mac Mini with gigabit = cheap server with cheap licensing for small business. Since Apple has somewhere north of 10% Apple share among small businesses, it's both reasonable and relevant.

subzero,

"Poor Mac, 2 minutes. And they say their OS doesn't suffer from viruses and malware. Yeah, right."

- Funny, I've never seen a computer virus or malware that actually manifests as a man sitting a the computer directly and hacking it. I always though Viruses were software that was able to self-propegate and do damage. Funny, I thought the whole "reality" thing mattered. You know, the reality where hacking and viruses are two different things. The reality where there's been, to my knowledge, only one or two Mac OSX trojan horses discovered ANYWHERE, EVER. The reality where there's never been a single Mac virus outbreak.

Yeah, Subzero. I think I feel worse for the people who have lost billions in productivity and support costs on Windows to ACTUAL VIRUS ATTACKS.

All that said, it looks like Microsoft has made genuine strides on security, so bravo to them. And I'm not so bold as to say "bring it on" to the malware community like some mac users. But reality is reality and some hacking contest doesn't change that. Just keep that guy away from my Macbook Pro.

re: The MacBook Air has no clothes

subzerohitman721 — Sun, 30 Mar 2008 23:42:23 GMT

Silly, Apple... You can't get a cheap notebook right.

www.pcworld.com/.../article.html

At the CanSecWest security conference's PWN 2 OWN hacking contest, Charlie Miller successfully cracks a Macbook air in TWO MINUTES!

At the same contest, it took Shane Macaulay 2 days and some assistance from friends to crack a Windows Vista machine. However, it was vunerabilities in Java that allowed Vista to be compromised.

And yes, chalk one for you Linux guys, the Linux machine did not get cracked at the conference.

Poor Mac, 2 minutes. And they say their OS doesn't suffer from viruses and malware. Yeah, right.

However, of the 400 attendees had found bugs in the Linux operating system, she said, but many of them didn't want to put the work into developing the exploit code. Linux OS was worth the effort for $10,000. Wow, at least someone put in 2 days to try and crack Vista via a Java exploit.

I really don't know who to feel worse for, Apple or Linux?

re: The MacBook Air has no clothes

Waethorn — Sun, 30 Mar 2008 02:01:18 GMT

"It does not mean that the Mazda is bad car."

Zoom Zoom Kaboom!

re: The MacBook Air has no clothes

Waethorn — Sun, 30 Mar 2008 01:58:59 GMT

"mac-based small businesses feel really screwed by OSX Server's cheap unlimited client licensing, which comes with the server hardware"

ya- all 3 of them. basing Mac server solutions exclusively on a rackmount design is a huge mis-step on apple's part. it's no wonder nobody buys the stuff.

the Mac Pro's as a server? that's the only logical use of those platforms in a small business environment. similarly though, small businesses don't often need that level of power, especially for a first server, ESPECIALLY for the limited amount of services that OS X Server even provides to a small business network infrastructure. don't get me started on the whole "consumer graphics on a professional workstation" deal either. what a joke! there's a reason why NVIDIA makes Quadro cards - they're validated for professional OpenGL implementations, while their consumer counterparts AREN'T. consumer cards are optimized for Direct3D, but without Direct3D on OS X, the consumer cards are targetting not only the wrong audience on a Mac Pro, but also the wrong platform entirely.

re: The MacBook Air has no clothes

Avro — Sat, 29 Mar 2008 10:58:30 GMT

@brostbeef

I am most a MacUser and I could not agree with you more. Sometimes when you see blogs you think they are inhabited by people who simply think there is only one way of doing things. I have used only OS X, only Ubuntu and only XP for several months at a time and found that each OS has its merits.

As for the MBA. It wouldn't suit me much in that way that a Mazda MX-5 (US Miata) would not suit. I am married with 2 kids and a dog and we need something rather more conventional in terms of transport. A Honda Accord or Volvo Estate (US station wagon) suits us better. It does not mean that the Mazda is bad car.

re: The MacBook Air has no clothes

brostbeef — Fri, 28 Mar 2008 22:39:43 GMT

Does MBA present a unique value mix: absolutely

Does X300 present a unique value mix: absolutely

I don't think anyone can deny it, but why not just say that although they are both unique and present great value, they are not targeting the same people.

For me, the MBA lacks the essentials I need. Does it lack the essentials for my sister, no. If you only do the basics, the rest doesn't matter. Do you pay a little extra for that simplification? I think you do.

Why is that a bad thing though? Why not have machines which are designed from the ground up for a specific market group? Why does it need to be generalized?

Yes, I am a PC user, but I can see the merits of having a device which has been streamlined for a specific market.

What do I need from a PC?......probably something from Alienware.

re: The MacBook Air has no clothes

Dipsh t Admin — Fri, 28 Mar 2008 21:06:46 GMT

"Oh yeah, and the X300 is $3000 MINIMUM"

Now. Let's compare Apple's to, well, Apple's here. The x300 only has an SSD drive. It's $3,000 MINIMUM for the MBA too with an SSD. There is a rumored SATA option coming for the X300.

"Oh, and I know that mac-based small businesses feel really screwed by OSX Server's cheap unlimited client licensing, which comes with the server hardware."

That's a weak argument. If Apple's server market share was anything decent, they would NOT be offering unlimited client licensing, I can guarantee that to you. This sounds like a manufacturer trying to scrape out a few licenses by offering a cost competitive package, not because they are being nice.

"So... if you want an ultra portable in this class of machine, anyone with any shred of honesty has to admit that the Air offers a unique value mix. It's faster than the competition by a wide margin. It's got a much bigger screen than the Sony and is much cheaper than the Lenovo and the Sony."

And anyone with a shred of honesty has to admit that the various Lenovo and Sony models offer their own unique value mixes. I can get in to a Lenovo x61 decently equipped for about $1,200-1,300 for a sub 3 pound laptop. Plus this gives you a plenty capable keyboard. Also watch that space this year from Lenovo, as they are revamping their ultra-portable product line.

"Everything is just about black-and-white jab with you. You have such absolute hate for Apple it's completely out of the realm of rationality. I'd normally assume you were 14 years old, because generally it's only children that have such stark, partisan opinions... but that doesn't appear to be the case. So I'm at a loss to explain your mentality about a platform and products you neither sell, nor use, nor effect you in any way."

Replace Apple with MS above. Hate to say a one-lined jab, but I've got a kettle over here just dying to meet you.

re: The MacBook Air has no clothes

johnpapola — Fri, 28 Mar 2008 02:41:17 GMT

Oh, and I know that mac-based small businesses feel really screwed by OSX Server's cheap unlimited client licensing, which comes with the server hardware. TOTALLY SCREWED.

re: The MacBook Air has no clothes

johnpapola — Fri, 28 Mar 2008 02:34:13 GMT

Yep. Screw over customers. That's just what Apple does. And they lace their machines with hallucinogenic drugs that keep them happier and more satisfied with their computers than any other computer users.

I know I felt totally screwed when I bought my Mac Pro for less than a Dell workstation. I felt so screwed when I bought Final Cut Studio 2 for $1299 vs. Avid's $5000. Or Logic Studio for $499 compared to it's former price of $3000. When I was saving enough money on Apple's software to buy two more computers with the savings, I felt completely screwed over.

I've also felt horribly screwed by the past 8 years of amazing customer service, as has everyone else that rates them miles ahead of the nearest PC competitor.

Oh, but that's right.... I can't buy a single-proc quad-core gaming rig from Apple and they aren't the absolute cheapest machines on the planet. That MUST mean that they're categorically horrible on all fronts in every context.

Dude, you're the worst. Everything is just about black-and-white jab with you. You have such absolute hate for Apple it's completely out of the realm of rationality. I'd normally assume you were 14 years old, because generally it's only children that have such stark, partisan opinions... but that doesn't appear to be the case. So I'm at a lose to explain your mentality about a platform and products you neither sell, nor use, nor effect you in any way.

But hey. This appears to be the way you like to present yourself. As a one-note platform zealot. Enjoy that, I guess.

re: The MacBook Air has no clothes

Waethorn — Fri, 28 Mar 2008 00:21:47 GMT

"Is the growing mac market really this much of a threat to your business?"

Nope - 3 Mac stores in my area have closed down in as many years.

"I would think there's more than enough people interested in some cheap commodity PC to keep you busy and profitable for the rest of your life."

I don't sell cheap PC's, sorry to say. But I can tell you that I can beat Apple's prices ANY day of the week - it's not exactly that hard to, either. One just has to wake up each day thinking: "how can I NOT screw over customers today, like Apple does?"

re: The MacBook Air has no clothes

johnpapola — Thu, 27 Mar 2008 22:10:54 GMT

"ya, in your case, style = cheap white shiney plastic and technology inside it with a 50% cost premium."

Funny, I thought the air was made of really high quality, matte, caste aluminum compared to plastic on all the competitors. If you've ever used an Air, you'd know it's an amazingly solid feeling machine.

Man, Waethorn, you do love to troll with tripe, don't you? Is the growing mac market really this much of a threat to your business? I would think there's more than enough people interested in some cheap commodity PC to keep you busy and profitable for the rest of your life.

Oh... and I'm pretty sure the air is noticably faster than the Sony TZ or Lenovo X300 that you bashers love to compare it to since they're 1.2ghz compared to the Air's 1.6 or 1.8ghz chips. And you can't choose a faster chip. Oh yeah, and the X300 is $3000 MINIMUM. Sony TZ seams to start at $2100 with 2GB of ram.

So... if you want an ultra portable in this class of machine, anyone with any shred of honesty has to admit that the Air offers a unique value mix. It's faster than the competition by a wide margin. It's got a much bigger screen than the Sony and is much cheaper than the Lenovo and the Sony.

There are plenty of users that don't need more than 1 usb port on a daily basis and don't do anything that'll tax this machines' processor or ram too hard. Plenty. There's plenty of people who'd like an ultra-light machine with a full-sized screen for under 2grand. Plenty. There's plenty of people that can't tolerate a small keyboard.

Apple made different choices for compromise with the air that are reasonable. They delivered a faster performance, a better keyboard and screen for less money the competitors in the 3lb class. if you need stuff it doesn't have, no problem. But for you windows users and zealots like Waethorn to be so offended by this machine's value equation is irrational and ridiculous.

And it doesn't matter. It looks like the Air is a pretty solid success already.

"no drive, one USB, no ethernet... LAME". This all sounds very familiar.

re: The MacBook Air has no clothes

Avro — Thu, 27 Mar 2008 19:35:41 GMT

@Waethorn What planet are you on? I paid £440 for my MacBook and it beats anything at that price, holds its wireless connection better and has more wireless range than any PC I know of. Paul, TWIT, CNET have all reported that feature for feature Macs can match PC's on price.

www.systemshootouts.org/.../0515_lt1100.html

I have to agree with Paul. The MacBook Air has a market but not one that I will be a part of although it looks lovely. The market is a niche market but ti seems to be selling very well indeed.

If I wanted something smaller than the MacBook I would go with the new touchscreen Linux Asus EeePC.

news.yahoo.com/.../143882;_ylt=AruTVkVWkR4_QREi8E_liU.SxLEF

re: The MacBook Air has no clothes

peterkirn — Thu, 27 Mar 2008 15:48:12 GMT

Well, Paul, I'm not sure Jason O'Grady being critical of Apple will be a shock to anyone -- to me (and I'm biased; once upon a time I was a PowerPage contributor), the shock is that there's not more widespread, healthy criticism in general.

And yeah, criticism IS healthy. The AIR clearly isn't for everyone -- and Jason says honestly, personally why it didn't work for him in a way that could be relevant to other people.

I think the MBA makes more sense in a larger context: not only increased performance, but better miniaturization and (here's the biggie for me) better power consumption. If we can work out ways of providing more power in laptops, and using less power in laptops, all kinds of things become possible. Instead, the trend has been a kind of stalemate between increasing performance and decreasing power consumption where we're actually requiring more powerful batteries, at enormous cost.

re: The MacBook Air has no clothes

syedsahmad — Thu, 27 Mar 2008 15:45:08 GMT

Travel conscious, size of the device, all of these reasons are valid, but I feel that the device will be dealt with like the G4 Cube...looks cool but way to expensive when cheaper alternatives are better. If they can manage better performance and perhaps a second USB (at the least), then its possible the unit can servive.

Of the Apple notebook line, I would go with a MacBook Pro (I have a 15" and LOVE IT), but would get a MacBook WAY before even considering an Air. What the MacBook may lack in sleekness (which the Air has, no doubt about that), it makes up with speed, more inputs, and price (not to mention that they are both the same size screen).

I honestly believe that Paul nailed it with his initial thoughts on the device, stating that Apple when with form-over-factor, where the design of the unit is the ONLY selling point. I really think that Apple can improve on this design and create a portable that has all the sleekness and features of a Vaio or any other ultra-portable (Apple has done it many times with the "second go around" with many of their products. Apple TV anyone?). But this one seems like its more hype over anything else.