What's the deal with Windows Mobile?

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The iPhone Blog » Blog Archive » Thurrott’ling Windows Mobile: Take 2 — Sun, 11 May 2008 01:21:19 GMT

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money for windows mobile

money for windows mobile — Tue, 29 Apr 2008 21:24:59 GMT

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re: What's the deal with Windows Mobile?

dstrack — Mon, 21 Apr 2008 14:38:37 GMT

What about the fact that MSFT just bought Danger (Sidekick)? I'm assuming it was a cheap option to get into the cellphone hardware biz? Kinda surprising tho... Would've rather seen them buy Palm (too expensive?).

On a side note, I recently bought the Verizon XV6800 running WinMo6.0Pro. Loving the phone but due to Verizon's limitations they do not allow you to access Hotmail Live on the Pocket Outlook application... instead you need to use the web browser to login to the email service. SUPER LAME!!! It's just funny that my Gmail IMAP account works better on my WinMo phone than MSFT's Hotmail!!!

Noticias 10-Abril-2008

La Web de Programación — Thu, 10 Apr 2008 19:33:59 GMT

Adobe lanza Photoshop Express : Un photoshop online y gratuito. Yahoo desvela una tecnología para realizar

re: What's the deal with Windows Mobile?

DRWAM — Thu, 03 Apr 2008 23:04:25 GMT

I don't know about recouping all the loss, but I can see it getting Bluray and improved reliability/hardware. Perhaps it can finally shine. Of course many of you can clearly read through my posts, that I am a big optimist. The market war for consoles is far from over, and profit making of the Xbox could be right around the corner. Anything is possible if you have faith. Isn't that what Obama says?

re: What's the deal with Windows Mobile?

johnpapola — Thu, 03 Apr 2008 22:37:38 GMT

I tell you one thing, if they came out with a revised 360 that was whisper-quiet and included bluray drive, I'd be all over it.

re: What's the deal with Windows Mobile?

johnpapola — Thu, 03 Apr 2008 20:51:35 GMT

Paul, why do you think Microsoft is still in this market? What do you think is their strategy? Is it just hedging bets? That's a multi-billion dollar (lost) hedge.

re: What's the deal with Windows Mobile?

pthurrott — Thu, 03 Apr 2008 18:56:50 GMT

I believe John is correct on the profitability of the Microsoft division that makes the Xbox 360. More to the point, if they've been profitable a few other quarters, big deal: They're never going to come close to recapturing the several million dollars they've ejected into the ether in order to just enter this market. Microsoft will never make money on the Xbox, certainly not during the lifetime of the current generation of hardware. It's impossible.

re: What's the deal with Windows Mobile?

johnpapola — Thu, 03 Apr 2008 18:13:17 GMT

Lindy,

I think the xbox division only made a profit in the quarter during which Halo 3 was released.

Can anyone confirm this?

re: What's the deal with Windows Mobile?

Lindy — Thu, 03 Apr 2008 18:03:01 GMT

I thought the 360 hardware is finally making money per box sold? Also I thought the Xbox divsion is finally bringing in more money than it spends?

Of course it has a mountain of debt to make up for.

As far as consoles goes, it has the higher game sales than the Wii and PS3 put together.

If Sony could put something together that is 70% as good as live and keep it free the Xbox would be done. Live and its multiplayer features are what makes the 360 a hit.

re: What's the deal with Windows Mobile?

johnpapola — Thu, 03 Apr 2008 17:33:37 GMT

Ah xbox. Microsoft took a big risk by depreciating the first xbox so quickly in order to push the 360. That risk is looking like it won't pay off. Instead of keeping the old xbox alive and selling it at a profit as Sony is doing with the PS2, Microsoft put all of its eggs in the 360. That's fine, except that they rushed the design and delivered a machine that's got fundamental hardware problems.

Again, I like it, but it's so loud I can't comfortably watch a DVD on it. And every single person I know has had it fail... but me. I don't play enough to have it fail yet, I guess.

Why can microsoft make such terrible mistakes with their strategy? Monopoly money from Windows and Office. At this point, I think it's fair to say that Microsoft couldn't stay in business based on this track record, if it had to start from scratch without these two monopolies to draw from.

The next question becomes, why be in the gaming business? In theory, it's a monopoly extension strategy. Get people on the 360 and use it's hooks into windows to reinforce the value and dominance of Windows. Unfortunately, it's noise makes it a terrible media center device and it's lack of a next-gen HD disc format prevents it from being a helpful convergence device as well.

What you're left with is a side-project that is kept going on a hope that at some point it can turn some small sustainable profit. After losing many billions on it up to this point, I'd say the Xbox division was a bad investment.

And again, I own and enjoy the 360.

re: What's the deal with Windows Mobile?

heran — Thu, 03 Apr 2008 15:52:46 GMT

"Careful there, cowboy. I didn't call the XBox a failure. I said it was riddled with failures, which is true."

Cowboy, that's how you start a debate? "I didn't call the XBox a failure. I said it was riddled with failures." Yeah, whatever.

"I personally think most of the success of the Wii and the PS2 has to do with their low price point."

Back to the years SONY had to compete with other consoles like Dreamcast, so the price is low and I read report that PS2 itself didn't make any profits (even minus profits) for SONY for the first few years after the release, which means PS2 is also a "money-loser" in history. But this did not stop SONY; without "losing money" it may be hard for SONY to defeat Dreamcast. This is something called market strategy (see DRWAM's comments for reference). "money-loser" doesn't actually mean anything, as long as the company (such as SONY or MS) has enough money and is happy to spend.

re: What's the deal with Windows Mobile?

johnpapola — Thu, 03 Apr 2008 15:01:25 GMT

Dipsht,

"I think it's fair to state that Microsoft's 2nd and 3rd tier products (Windows Mobile, Xbox, Zune, Mac Business Unit, hardware, etc.) wouldn't even be around anymore if the company didn't have the profits from its Big Three products to fall back on. None of these have been particularly successful from a revenue perspective." - Paul being dead-on correct.

See, paul's comment regarding the source of Microsoft's revenue in answer to your question. I agree with you that saying "everything else" is a bit hyperbolic, but when you look at Pauls' comment, it's not far from the truth. In fairness to my criticism of Paul, though, I shouldn't be that hyperbolic. I dont' like when calls Apple a "liar" and I shouldn't do the same.

Still, talking about Microsoft's mice is like talking about Apple's great firewire cables. It's just blip on the radar, though I agree that their mice are great.

My point, though, is the same as Paul's. Outside of Windows (I'm including server there, since it's a natural extention), And office (again, including exchange here)... Microsoft has shown no ability to succeed in new markets on the scale that Apple has done with the iPod and iPhone.

I use and enjoy the 360, but the Xbox division is a fiscal catastrophe with no sign of long-term profit in sight... and it's horribly loud and terribly unreliable. Live is an achievement in online gaming.

Now, when you consider that both Windows and Office have monopoly power and have not achieved dominance on their own merit alone (as the iPod and iPhone have), it makes things even more unfortunate for Microsoft as a successful "innovator".

I give them credit for trying, but until they stop chasing their tale and the tales of their competitors and focus, they'll just be stuck milking their monopoly money with foolish ventures for the next decade as much as they have this past one.

re: What's the deal with Windows Mobile?

DRWAM — Thu, 03 Apr 2008 14:25:34 GMT

Although XBOX loses money, doesn't the game revenue generate some? iTunes brings almost no profit, but it helps drive sales for iPod [I think]. But some loss leaders are just too substantial for anything to compensate. Any way, to pose the question, does anyone know the revenue generated from the XBOX business, such as game sales or subscriptions?

re: What's the deal with Windows Mobile?

lotsamystuff — Thu, 03 Apr 2008 13:49:38 GMT

"It's unfair to compare it with PS2. PS2 had been there for many years before xbox. I guess PS2 outsells PS3, so you'd call PS3 a failure?"

Careful there, cowboy. I didn't call the XBox a failure. I said it was riddled with failures, which is true. Likewise, I wouldn't call the PS3 a failure; I personally think most of the success of the Wii and the PS2 has to do with their low price point. It's the same reason cheap PCs sell so well, even if they are technically inferior to their more expensive counterparts.

And it's interesting that you point out that "PS2 had been there for many years before xbox". That speaks volumes to the quality and longevity of the PS2 as a development platform with legs. One would think that by now, the world would have passed it by. Obviously, that's not the case.

Aside from one Halo-driven quarter, which is proving to be an anomaly, the XBox has been a consistent money-loser for Microsoft. As Paul correctly points out, If it were made by any other company without such deep pockets, it would have been jettisoned a long time ago.