Microsoft to load HP PCs with crapware

re: Microsoft to load HP PCs with crapware

subzerohitman721 — Sat, 07 Jun 2008 20:06:29 GMT

Personally, I have no problem with any of Paul's rants. At least in the United States, his comments are clearly protected under the 1st ammendment of the Bill of Rights. Considering how vocal Apple's hard core supporters are, shouldn't we as Windows users have a voice speaking for us? Paul does so and perhaps Mac fans don't want to hear it. To that I say, tough. If you can't take the heat, don't pick up a gun. Frankly, some of the most illogical and namecalling on these blogs have come from both sides. Frankly, I prefer opinions backed up by fact and experience.

I know Windows or MS isn't anywhere near perfect. They have broken the law and there are some clear advantages to the Mac OS system. However, we do have the right to poke fun of, tear arguments apart with logic, and criticise Apple. That makes Jobs, Leopard, and its most illogical supports open season. However, there are many who come on here and make valid points. This is how democracy works when its done right.

As for his comments on the Wii, Paul does make one good point. Selling hardware is great, however if that hardware sales doesn't translate to software sales of games, then its a moot point. MS Xbox 360 has been outpacing software sales of Wii software slaes in the long run. If that changes, then we'll have something more to say. The questions of the longevity of all 3 systems are fair game. What you see is a cheapshot, I see as fair criticism.

To quote Obi-Wan, "Many of the truths we cling to greatly depend on our point of view."

re: Microsoft to load HP PCs with crapware

Dude1313 — Thu, 05 Jun 2008 12:27:22 GMT

@tristanh

Not trying to pic a fight but wondering this: Does the reverse apply then? Will the Windows fanboys restrain themselves when Paul crtitcizes Apple?

I also disagree that Paul criticizes MS. Oh it looks good on the outside but he knows where his bread & butter is as it were...

Sad thing is Paul is capable of some well thought out reasoning but what he dislikes, man does he ever dislike and does so from emotion rather then reason. His Apple rants, his Wii rants are all the same thing.

Case in point, the cheap shots lately at Walt? Pure bush league.

re: Microsoft to load HP PCs with crapware

DRWAM — Wed, 04 Jun 2008 23:29:58 GMT

Another thought is that this can be sort of considered a feature of Windows [like the 300 added Leopard features], since it's from MS. Use it or not. But I would prefer an app or feature from the maker of my OS over that of a 3rd party...usually, unless it sucks a lot. Wrong or right, I just have more confidence that it won't be a resource hog or spyware when it comes from the mothership.

re: Microsoft to load HP PCs with crapware

DRWAM — Wed, 04 Jun 2008 23:22:32 GMT

"Perhaps if they also improved drastically the quality and killed the resource hogging, people would be more opened to trying them."

Yep, this is exactly why I won't try a lot of of apps, especially since they don't seem to be removed in their entirety.

re: Microsoft to load HP PCs with crapware

tristanh — Wed, 04 Jun 2008 17:19:31 GMT

@Dude1313

The point was that the next time Paul does criticize Apple for something stupid that it is doing, the Mac fanboys will jump all over him and call him biased, ignoring the fact that he does criticize MS when it is waranted. I'm not saying that the Mac fanboys should be chiming in on this one, but they should take note of it and realize that they are the ones with the biases.

re: Microsoft to load HP PCs with crapware

Dude1313 — Wed, 04 Jun 2008 16:11:31 GMT

@ tristanh

No, its more like Apple fans only take Paul to task when he gets on his "anti Apple Soapbox" and pretends to be unbiased and above the fray that he, himself causes.

Crapware on a PC has nothing to do with Apple fans should why should they chime in? Stay on target.

re: Microsoft to load HP PCs with crapware

subzerohitman721 — Wed, 04 Jun 2008 14:13:43 GMT

I am evenly split on this issue. On the one hand, I absolutely hate the "crapware" on any notebook, desktop, or any other format. On the otherhand, I can see why they do it. They want to advertise, help reduce cost, generate revenue, etc. But if I have to make a choice, I have to agree with some of the Mac guys on here. None of this crapware has any business on a brand new PC. If Apple only puts bonafied trial software of legitimate products, this is one thing I would love emulated in the Windows World.

My solution to this, is something Microsoft used to do but curiously quit doing in favor of Ultimate Extras. I remember that back in the day, Microsoft used to release a Plus CD of extras. Sometimes they had useful utilities, games, or other extras. Why don't these companies like HP, Dell, Lenovo, Yahoo, Google, Microsoft, AOL, and the rest just create Plus-like CD/DVD that are included in new PC/Notebook puchases? If they don't want the physical media expense, why not include a link to a website in the OS where you can download these programs? The website must include a removal tool that completely eliminates any program they offer. It should also offer you a chance to delete the link in the OS as well.

I'm not opposed to HP, Dell, Google, Yahoo, MS, or any of those guys making a buck or advertising additional programs or applications. But please give me the owner of the equipment my right to pick and choose. It could even be done with a mini app that launches on the first time and doens't come up unless specifically clicked on. There are many ways to achieve their objective, without cluttering new machines with junk. Perhaps if they also improved drastically the quality and killed the resouce hogging, people would be more opened to trying them.

re: Microsoft to load HP PCs with crapware

tayme — Wed, 04 Jun 2008 13:16:35 GMT

@drylight - Again, you bring nothing to the table except ignorant troll rants. Why don't you take some time and describe what you don't like about Windows...what issues you have with it not performing up to your expectations...you know; an intelligent, adult exchange of ideas rather than the rants of a zit faced teenager hanging out in the basement playing on Daddy's Mac?

--tayme

re: Microsoft to load HP PCs with crapware

drylight — Wed, 04 Jun 2008 07:18:02 GMT

Windows itself is the biggest crapware on a box.

re: Microsoft to load HP PCs with crapware

gavers — Wed, 04 Jun 2008 02:24:52 GMT

Here it is: arstechnica.com/.../20080602-new-hp-microsoft-live-search-deal-is-all-about-silverlight.html

I'll leave it to you to decide if that's the real motive behind bundling the toolbar.

re: Microsoft to load HP PCs with crapware

gavers — Wed, 04 Jun 2008 02:18:16 GMT

Rumor has it that they're bundling the toolbar as a way to get silverlight on the machines instead of flash. I wish I had the link to that...

re: Microsoft to load HP PCs with crapware

MrDiSante — Tue, 03 Jun 2008 23:49:25 GMT

I don't understand why Microsoft gets the special treatment - I've yet to see a PC in the past 5 years or so that doesn't come with either Google or Yahoo toolbar and all that loveliness installed. If it's going to be some company, I don't see why it shouldn't be Microsoft.

re: Microsoft to load HP PCs with crapware

joe-dokes — Tue, 03 Jun 2008 23:13:21 GMT

First off, I'm not a fanboy ;)

Second, I've just sat back and had a good laugh. Reading your posts is like watching two brother fight over a girl.

Paul is criticizing MS, good for him, he should do it more often. I haven't chimed in because I find it funny that many of you are actually debating this, I my view crapware sucks and companies that foist it on their customers are doing their long term interest a disservice.

Here are my observations.

My Mac came with only two pieces of what could arguably be called crapware. A trial to MS office, and a trial to iWorks. Both of which could be uninstalled by dragging their icons to the trash. Did this upset me? Not really, I think both programs are pretty good, verging on great and therefore feel that a trial version is a good is a benefit to a new user.

That being said, I find it funny that people are arguing about the value of crapware. For example, the main argument in favor of crapware is that it lowers the cost of the computer for the consumer. How much do you think it lowers the cost? A dollar? Ten dollars? A hundred Dollars? It's probably closer to ten bucks. For that ten dollar savings you get to uninstall and perhaps reload all the software that you actually want?

How long does that take? Let's say two hours. So you're earning a whopping five dollars an hour to uninstall crapware?

This is my continued argument I have with PC people who will admit that Apple makes a nice machine, that it is in many ways superior, but that they don't want to spend the extra money on a Mac. They fail to recognize what value is.

Apple provides its customers VALUE, not the cheapest, simply the most value oriented computing experience.

When a new Mac shows up at my house it is joyous occasion. I am downright giddy. I boot the mac for the first time and with in minutes, not hours, I am using my new machine and enjoying it. What is the value in that?

In my mind it is worth a heck of a lot more than ten bucks.

Regards

Joe Dokes

re: Microsoft to load HP PCs with crapware

tristanh — Tue, 03 Jun 2008 22:17:24 GMT

Just a quick observation...

It's funny how the Mac fanboys that criticize Paul for being "biased" disappear everytime he does point out a negative about PCs.

Anyways, crapware sucks, and I would personally just reinstall Windows, however for some people this isn't really an option as they don't know what they are doing. I just don't think it's fair to take advantage of these peoples technological ignorance.

re: Microsoft to load HP PCs with crapware

heran — Tue, 03 Jun 2008 21:30:43 GMT

Everybody (Google, Yahoo) else does it... so why not MSFT? I say good for them.

=====

Agree. If users are going to get "crapware" anyway, why cannot that be from MSFT? If HP didn't install live toolbar, it will install e.g. google toolbar instead, so the results would be the same, whether MSFT made a deal with HP or not. And it is funny to say "Windows Live Search itself--should succeed or fail on its own", please tell me why? I have been tired of bundled google toolbar almost everywhere found in a new PC or other softwares (e.g. during installing realplayer it would ask to whether to install google toolbar as well.)