Dear Windows 7 Programmers, I Have a Few Ideas...

re: Dear Windows 7 Programmers, I Have a Few Ideas...

subzerohitman721 — Sat, 07 Jun 2008 19:56:04 GMT

@ Avro,

For the most part, I agree with you. Apple does do a good job with communication and advertisement. However, just because MS doesn't pour on a media blitz, doesn't make it all bad. I think if most consumers rely on a commercial for their information instead of doing research, then the world is in deep trouble.

I on the otherhand, pour into reviews both editor and user. I look at features and functions that I believe are relavent. Just because the bulk of Apple customers just want to buy the box and have it all work, doesn't speak for the millions of Windows users. I believe Windows users actually look foward to upgrading and changing up PC's. At least more so than Mac users in my experience who just change memory, optical drives, and hard disk drives. Everytime I walk into Fry's, Microcenter, Altex, and other hardware retailers, business is doing just fine. Infact, except for people just looking at Macs out of sheer curiosity, Apple's machines pretty much don't walk out of the store. Thats just my keen observations to a guy who frequently checks out the stores.

re: Dear Windows 7 Programmers, I Have a Few Ideas...

jf181 — Fri, 06 Jun 2008 02:48:21 GMT

Paul,

Could the answer be that Sinofsky changes the UI to make existing features more accessible and noticeable to users? That's basically what he did with Office 2007 which has been a success.

re: Dear Windows 7 Programmers, I Have a Few Ideas...

Waethorn — Thu, 05 Jun 2008 16:35:41 GMT

"People are smart enough to handle different UIs. As I'm sure you know, many people use Windows at work and the Mac at home. No biggie."

The problem is when you have "Windows" and work and "Windows" at home, people expect them to be the same.

re: Dear Windows 7 Programmers, I Have a Few Ideas...

Avro — Thu, 05 Jun 2008 14:42:29 GMT

I think the most important part about Paul's post is the disconnect between Windows and its customers. There was an article a little while ago on '18 features that Windows should have but doesn't'. Paul did a pretty good dissection of it. I have been using Windows on and off since 1996 but I went away from his blog post thinking "I guess Windows isn't so bad". It was enlightening. More importantly my friends who use nothing about Windows don't know about those features (that Vista has) either. You can mock Apple for "Leopard's 300 features" but Apple lets the buyer know about the features and that is useful and it makes them happy. All the poor Vista guy knows is that it doesn't work with his peripherals and it is all the fault of Microsoft.

The Time Machine interface - the same thing could have been done with a few lines of text but TM is very much in the user's face and he knows about it and uses it. I found it a great help in transferring data and apps to my new Mac Pro.

As far as the Apple adverts go, they are very good and funny. Unfortunately although XP and Vista are good the adverts bring to mind every shortcoming that every version of Windows has ever had. Forget that the situation has changed in many instances. It has been a long time since I have had 'you have just tried to perform an illegal operation' a blue screen of death or a freeze but in the last year or two I have had a virus and some apps quit. The thing is when a computer lets you down you don't forget it and Apple has managed to push all the buttons and whatever version of it the latest version of Windows gets the blame (whether deserved or not).

As for the number of SKUs, they are confusing. I came across Vista at a good price but was totally confused by the versions. I left the computer shop without a purchase. This is significant. Microsoft has to do better.

re: Dear Windows 7 Programmers, I Have a Few Ideas...

subzerohitman721 — Thu, 05 Jun 2008 13:58:00 GMT

Paul,

I somewhat agree with most of your comments. About the SKU issue, the home version was seriously lame. If we're going to make a legacy version of Windows, I would recommend that it be distinctly different from the main version for several reasons.

First, legacy support is mostly for security and business support. There's no need slapping Aero on a Pentium 3 system thats essentially a workstation. Businesses are more concerned with productivity and reducing upkeep than pretty graphics. The reasons why businesses migrated to 2000, XP, and 98 was that it was cheaper to keep it running.

Second, a very stripped down version of Windows even would be great for small businesses who don't want or can't afford an IT department. Perhaps they want to upgrade PC's every 10 to 12 years, versus the way consumers do. Many retail stores still use the venerable 386 Intel & 486 Intel powered computers for basic register, workstation, and email reading functions. It doesn't need a whole lot of resources. One of the companies who does this for their office terminal/register functions is Walgreens. Yes, those ancient 386 computers run XP and pretty decently by the way.

Third, a lot of one hour photo processors still use Windows 2000. As most companies have already upgraded photo processors for digital photo labs, I don't see Vista being able to run these machines. Its way too hardware intensive. Plus the memory restrictions of how they were constructed would probably prohibit such installation. There is no sense in junking them since many are in the early operating life, but making a Windows for Legacy would sell very well to Noritsu, Fuji, Gretag, and others.

As for the main consumer/business mainline Windows, Home, Professional, and Ultimate would be the perfect SKUs. A Home Edition for low end PC's with lower memory/CPU demands that brings the best to the lowest end. It also supports most of the media center functionality. Basic or Home Premium computers within 24 months of launch should be able to do all the higher end functions easily. Professional version that combines business and enterprise in one powerful SKU. Ultimate combines home/business and special media center edition. I would love to see in this ultimate version, a new gaming platform that gets Windows out of the way.

I also agree that open sourcing current or future Windows is not the solution. However, I do agree with open source advocates that all DOS versions, Windows 1-3x, 95, 98, NT, ME, and 2000 should officially become open source. These OSes are old enough to be let out of the vault. It will please a good portion of the open source community. Also, when 2014 rolls around, add XP to that list. Then when Vista and Seven go beyond their extended support and retired; introduce them to open source when a new codebase is being used.

I do agree about a subtle disconnect between Windows and the consumer base. If their was some sort of Microsoft supported Windows Enthuiast Organization that actively beta tests, hold open house with Microsoft Engineers and Executives, Webcasts, and do consumer feedback testing. This would be great because it allows a guy like me to connect with Redmond directly. Imagine cultivating such consumer oriented group that helps Microsoft cultivate and improve product lines. You'll still have technet and the IT infrastructure of testers. Then you personalise it with t-shirts, hats, giveaways, special dinners, and even a conference. I think that would do more for Microsoft than anything. Just a random thought. ;)

re: Dear Windows 7 Programmers, I Have a Few Ideas...

Dipsh t Admin — Thu, 05 Jun 2008 12:57:42 GMT

Patriot, you mention something that is very important to remember, and that is that MS works in conditions that are not favorable to innovation in many cases. Take the Save as PDF feature in Office 2007. It was in the beta, it works. But Adobe balked, end of story, it's not included. Now the user needs to go through additional steps to download it, steps that the Apple crowd will use as fodder for how MS is the "sux0rs", which is not the case at all. At one point, you could say that MS was an anti-competitive monopoly, but they are now so extremely accommodating it in some cases stifles innovation.

re: Dear Windows 7 Programmers, I Have a Few Ideas...

timiteh — Thu, 05 Jun 2008 09:48:11 GMT

Well offering only one SKU of Windows would be silly at it would either prevent Microsoft to offer many functionnalities of the most advanced versions or to face many lawsuits.

This said i agree with that Windows must has a greater differenciation between S.K.U.

I personnaly would see the following S.K.U for the client O.S:

1) BASIC S.K.U:

For both legacy hardware and Low cost PC.

That would be a version optimised to require as less ressources as possible.

It should however features an optimised/light version of AERO like G.U.i(let's call it AERO Light) which would be available for hardware in this category with enough power to run it.

This S.K.U should also provide an optional set of professional features which could enable a professional users to have a minimum of productivity.

2) HOME S.K.U:

For non professional users with the advanced multimedia features and all capabilities needed for consumers.

This S.K.U must feature no professional features as it would be focused on multimedia and home users needs.

It could come with optional third party applications.

3) BUSINESS S.K.U:

This S.K.U would be aimed to professional.

It should be developed by the Windows Server Team with some very limited intervention from the Windows Client Team.

Moreover this S.K.U must feature flawless backward compatibily be it through virtualisation or another technology.

It must also feature the AERO Light of the BASIC S.K.U and very limited multimedia capabilities.

4)ULTIMATE S.K.U:

This S.K.U must feature all features of the previous S.K.U.

Moreover this S.K.U must enable the user to easily switch between BASIC, HOME, BUSINESS and ULTIMATE modes depending of what the user wants to do.

In each mode the system would behave like the corresponding O.S.

In ULTIMATE mode, the system would provide the features of both HOME and BUSINESS S.K.U as well as some bonus such as a significantly more advanced and impressive GUI let's called it(AERO Ultimate) and even more advanced multimedia capabilities than the HOME S.K.U.

The AERo Ultimate should provide advanced animations and other 3D effects(cf what is possible with XGL on Linux).

Last but not least, this ULTIMATE S.K.U should run only on PC with the appropriate hardware specifications to run it flawlessly.

I personnaly think that it must come packed with specific PC and laptops.

These PC and Laptops must fit strict criterias in order to get a specific label from Microsoft.

re: Dear Windows 7 Programmers, I Have a Few Ideas...

PatriotB6007 — Thu, 05 Jun 2008 08:00:09 GMT

@murdocdv -- "Except you only get Complete PC on VIsta Business, Ultimate, and Enterprise, every Mac user gets Time Machine."

One thing to remember is that Windows was found to be a monopoly, so they have to be very careful which features you bundle with every SKU. Were every SKU to come with complete PC backup, I wouldn't be surprised to see some backup ISV suing Microsoft for antitrust bundling violations.

Also antitrust is likely a big reason why Home Basic and Home Premium are separate. Media Center is a pretty significant piece of software, and if Microsoft forced all home users to acquire Media Center whether they wanted to or not, there would likely be a lawsuit.

That said, an "ala carte" model is an option, except then it gets even more confusing (for 3rd party software developers, and for tech support) because the number of permutations gets big pretty quick.

re: Dear Windows 7 Programmers, I Have a Few Ideas...

pthurrott — Wed, 04 Jun 2008 22:31:02 GMT

Waethorn : Jarring? People are smart enough to handle different UIs. As I'm sure you know, many people use Windows at work and the Mac at home. No biggie.

Ocean: I'm always cranky. :)

kellymjones: Not sure on why either. Apple certainly made it easier.(though I think the TM interface is idiotic.)

re: Dear Windows 7 Programmers, I Have a Few Ideas...

kellymjones — Wed, 04 Jun 2008 17:18:46 GMT

I totally don't understand why Vista didn't make previous versions more obvious and useful. Maybe Microsoft ran out of time. It seems like it would be easy enough to ask the user if they want to save versions of their documents to an external drive.

re: Dear Windows 7 Programmers, I Have a Few Ideas...

murdocdv — Wed, 04 Jun 2008 16:45:54 GMT

Faisal_A: No problem. I hadn't elaborated originally because I assumed the point was obvious, since Time Machine only comes with Leopard.

re: Dear Windows 7 Programmers, I Have a Few Ideas...

Faisal_A — Wed, 04 Jun 2008 16:05:08 GMT

Easy there murdocdv, I'm not trying to attack you. I probably should have elaborated. The wording in your original post ("Except you only get Complete PC on VIsta Business, Ultimate, and Enterprise, every Mac user gets Time Machine.") could be misinterpreted by non-Apple folks as meaning that ALL Macs have Time Machine. And of course, the anti-Apple crowd are likely to pick up on your comment and start bashing you.

re: Dear Windows 7 Programmers, I Have a Few Ideas...

Ocean — Wed, 04 Jun 2008 15:55:18 GMT

So maybe people are drinking the koolaid Apple offers up in those Anti-Vista ads?

Maybe thats why Paul has been so cranky lately.

I do think the ads have been highly effective in creating negatives in peoples minds about Vista...

re: Dear Windows 7 Programmers, I Have a Few Ideas...

bluvg — Wed, 04 Jun 2008 15:39:02 GMT

Scalable graphics (to Paul, peterkirn, et al):

Sounds great in theory, but most icons, graphics, etc. don't actually look that great when scaled--even if they're vectorized. If you review the Channel 9 interviews with Jenny Lam and other Microsoft UI folks, you'll hear how they took various icons, scaled them, then spent tons of time retouching them. Something that looks amazing at 256x256 may look totally unintelligible at 16x16.

That said, the DPI scaling in Vista is much, MUCH improved over XP. Peterkirn, you may want to give it a try--our users with vision problems were very pleasantly surprised.

Re: one SKU (Paul):

"But the Consumer product should be completely different from Business. ...It should have a completely different UI, a beautiful, fun UI, an extensible, crazy, let you do with it what you will UI."

I totally disagree. One of the reasons for the success of Windows is the familiarity. Consumer success often sparks business adoption and vice versa. The general UI should be the same across all end-user versions. Business users desire a polished interface just as much as consumers, if not more--they have to stare at the same screens far longer. They might consider a "classic" interface for all versions (or at least the business version), but at some point this will be a barrier to progress and a support issue--it won't be long before apps start taking advantage of features that are only supported in the "full" UI (you could even see some subtle feature differences in Office 2003 on XP between the XP and "classic" UI settings).

re: Dear Windows 7 Programmers, I Have a Few Ideas...

murdocdv — Wed, 04 Jun 2008 15:38:02 GMT

Faisal_A: Wow, that is pedantic, I'll make it crystal clear. Every Mac sold since October 26, 2007 comes with Time Machine, since they all come with Mac OS X 10.5 Leopard. Everyone that buys a boxed copy of Leopard gets Time Machine. That doesn't change my original point. Paul said: "And please explain to me where Apple’s CompletePC Backup feature can be found. Oh, right.". So I was trying to explain where Apple's equivalent of CompletePC was.