For the love of Windows Home Server

re: For the love of Windows Home Server

subzerohitman721 — Sat, 30 Aug 2008 12:28:46 GMT

Since my folks want to add some security cameras to our house, we're going to need a dedicated computer with server power to run a 24/7 CCTV and DVR system. I'm considering one of the Windows Server's to run this security camera system. Its a similar setup to what I've seen and used at corporate security CCTV and DVR setups.

I'm wondering if Windows Home Server would be up to the task? Or perhaps a Windows Server 2003 or 2008? Since my father has been sold on Vista, he's definitely look to technology add a new level of defense to the house. Since my kids spend a lot of time here, they want to protect them as well. Anyone care to chime in?

re: For the love of Windows Home Server

rickhuizinga — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 01:29:52 GMT

Mike, yep - I am in Redmond's back yard...

re: For the love of Windows Home Server

rob_kellington — Thu, 28 Aug 2008 22:38:33 GMT

I like WHS - but why can't MS get Dell or anyone other than HP to get involved. And why can't HP act like they care about this product.

What about a new version of the hardware? Rght now, I see a first iteration box with the same chip/memory/disk that was first offered over a year ago. In this market, everything should be upgraded much more frequently than HP does for this product.

How many notebooks & desktops is HP selling in Aug2008 that were the EXACT SAME configuration as Aug2007?

I would not recommend this product to my friends because the current hardware is inadequate, can't be upgraded, and shows no hope of getting to "server" class [dual-core, 4GB, 2TB+ storage].

re: For the love of Windows Home Server

mikegalos@msn.com — Thu, 28 Aug 2008 22:28:39 GMT

Rick,

Nice to see somebody from the neighborhood (relatively) on here. I was on Mercer Island on Tuesday.

re: For the love of Windows Home Server

rickhuizinga — Thu, 28 Aug 2008 22:13:56 GMT

If anyone is intereted in purchasing a HP MediaSmart Windows Home Server box, I have one that is like-new (still in factory protective plastic wrap) for sale:

cgi.ebay.com/Hewlett-Packard-MediaSmart-Server-EX470-UPGRADED-1TB_W0QQitemZ220273473336QQihZ012QQcategoryZ51215QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

re: For the love of Windows Home Server

Waethorn — Thu, 28 Aug 2008 18:57:01 GMT

mike: UEFI support in Windows Vista SP1 is more complicated than just enabling "UEFI Boot" on an Intel-based board. For one, Intel boards don't come with any kind of EFI firmware code out of the box. Secondly, once you have an EFI firmware with a shell and compatible EFI driver packages for your hardware, you have to have the EFI Shell set as the primary boot device, before any drives.

Lastly, you have to have EFI support of bootable optical discs so that the Vista SP1 DVD can boot (EFI shells that are configured properly and have the proper drivers for drive controllers and optical drives would support this as a sort-of Autoplay function). Otherwise, you'd have to launch the setup program manually by specifying it on the commandline.

AFAIK, Intel doesn't have any prebuilt EFI firmwares that you can just load onto specific UEFI-supporting motherboards. The code samples that they provide also don't have drivers for all of the necessary hardware on those boards either (drive controllers, drives, etc.), so you're on your own. It's probably why EFI won't get off the ground any time soon.

re: For the love of Windows Home Server

mikegalos@msn.com — Thu, 28 Aug 2008 18:38:55 GMT

Waethorn,

Right. The whole point of the WHS disk management is to make RAID unneeded.

I know that WHS media streaming formats and using WHS with WMC is a hot topic on the WHS fora but don't know the current supported protocols. I have a friend pushing for better support for UPnP in Media Center but don't know how successful he's been at lobbying.

As to the quandry, sorry, don't have a clue about that one.

re: For the love of Windows Home Server

Waethorn — Thu, 28 Aug 2008 17:35:36 GMT

Thx mike, but I knew that already.

As far as the user is concerned though, they don't see that, except for the reliability and space savings.

Also, Microsoft recommends against using RAID in WHS, just so you know.

Does WHS support DLNA-compatible media streaming? DLNA uses technology that's part of UPnP, QoS media optimization, and Windows Media Connect.

BTW: Care to take on this quandary? (see my comments at the end):

community.winsupersite.com/.../the-mojave-experiment-continues.aspx

"Say Hello to UnMac"

re: For the love of Windows Home Server

mikegalos@msn.com — Thu, 28 Aug 2008 16:54:40 GMT

Waethorn,

The WHS backup technology is a generation ahead of OneCare's backup. (Not saying anything bad about OneCare, I'm a big fan but it's not only for a different user it's also uses different technology)

Three key WHS technologies:

1) Drive Pool. WHS users can dynamically add, remove or replace drives with no change to the data. The system dynamically allocates space to the storage pool. If you want to add a drive, plug it in, tell WHS you want it in the pool and the pool is just bigger. That the drive is a separate physical device is transparent. Want to replace a drive? Tell WHS which drive you want to remove and the data is moved off that drive. When WHS says you're ready, take out the drive and add the newer, larger one. Tell WHS to use it and the data flows back onto it.

2) Automatic data redundancy. If you have multiple physical drives, WHS can automatically make sure that data is mirrored across multiple drives without having to keep track of RAID configurations (Tricky when you add or remove drives on RAID systems)

3) Whole network based evaluation of files. When two or more of your systems have the same file (binary identical) then WHS doesn't make separate copies for each instance but keeps track of which systems need that file. You don't store three copies of the same file when you back up three computers.

re: For the love of Windows Home Server

ibarskiy — Thu, 28 Aug 2008 15:18:43 GMT

Ocean,

No, not really. You see, MS is in a pickle here. (It's all my conjecture, by the way, so don't take this as official). They make the WHS product that can power appliances. Actually, marketing it to consumers (considering the most common denominator) is asking for trouble, as people would probably struggle to set it up correctly; not to mention, they need a spare box.

Now, what HP did with MediaSmart server is nothing short of spectacular - it is everything a WHS box should be (well, minus 1.5 GB of RAM; I so don't want to void the warranty by messing with it). So it's up to the appliance manufacturers to do the marketing, which they have kind of been doing, but there's a lot of education that needs to take place, too. Which is always difficult.

Waethorn, WHS is more than backup plus anytime / anywhere access to digital media. Although the latter part is kind of significant. But it can do remote access to your PCs, it can do media streaming (I stream my iTunes library finally, which avoids keeping several disjointed libraries on the individual PCs which is a PAIN to keep organized / synchronized). It can do the file repository (again, accessible anywhere) which I use for work, etc. It's like a server, with an additional web front end. Pretty cool.

re: For the love of Windows Home Server

Waethorn — Thu, 28 Aug 2008 15:03:14 GMT

"I don't own either, but I "get" them and have considered them."

Considering that I can get a Bell ExpressVu (now simply called "Bell TV") HD PVR system with dual tuners, and can record HD programming directly from the satellite stream without converting to analog, or back again, or using a dual-box setup via cables, nor do I have to pay extra a month for "suggested viewing", I certainly don't get the reasoning for having a TiVo.

As if it weren't bad enough, last time I checked (which was a while ago, in all honesty) TiVo didn't even have HD recorders in Canada. Until they actually offer HD recorders that actually record DIGITALLY, it just doesn't make sense.

WHS is worthwhile for home users that want to be able to access their media everywhere and all the time though. The centralized backup system expands on OneCare's offering, which is what Microsoft likes to do - offer different levels of features at different price points. OneCare already provides USB & 1394 drive sharing for centralized backups, but requires that the host computer be turned on. It also doesn't offer the ability to create recovery discs, which WHS does. Live Mesh has storage and access restrictions though, as well as not being locally self-managed. To each their own.

re: For the love of Windows Home Server

Dipsh t Admin — Thu, 28 Aug 2008 14:50:33 GMT

"If people don't realize it, MS needs to fire their marketing guru, no?"

Probably, but think about how hard the concept of Tivo was for regular consumers to understand. It was the kind of product that you didn't "get" until you actually used it, otherwise it felt kind of needless. WHS is the same kind of product.

Disclosure: I don't own either, but I "get" them and have considered them.

re: For the love of Windows Home Server

Ocean — Wed, 27 Aug 2008 22:29:27 GMT

Ibarsky,

If people don't realize it, MS needs to fire their marketing guru, no?

re: For the love of Windows Home Server

ibarskiy — Wed, 27 Aug 2008 21:48:11 GMT

Ocean, well home server is home server. It is not necessarily a syncing appliance, it's more of an aggregator, which is what it should be. My thought re: Outlook sync was kind of an afterthought - and a feature thoroughly lacking in MS realm. Curiously. Third party solutions that do it well are also hard to find. Anyway.

But it's great because you don't need discrete solutions, and because it is an appliance-style gadget, and not a separate server box that requires complex set-up and maintenance. Bottom line is, if there is more than one PC in a household, chances are that a lot of data is replicated, and chances are that there's no good reason for that, and so there is probably a need for WHS, but people just don't realize it.

re: For the love of Windows Home Server

tayme — Wed, 27 Aug 2008 21:23:53 GMT

I hate to cross post...but mikegalos, there are messages for you from jp and I at: community.winsupersite.com/.../windows-not-walls.aspx

--tayme