Windows Vista Service Pack 2 Beta

Vista Service Pack 2 Beta « eLearning Concepts

Vista Service Pack 2 Beta « eLearning Concepts — Tue, 03 Feb 2009 21:12:32 GMT

Pingback from Vista Service Pack 2 Beta « eLearning Concepts

dell computer drivers cd | Bookmarks URL

dell computer drivers cd | Bookmarks URL — Sun, 26 Oct 2008 14:10:35 GMT

Pingback from dell computer drivers cd | Bookmarks URL

re: Windows Vista Service Pack 2 Beta

mikegalos@msn.com — Sat, 25 Oct 2008 18:09:51 GMT

shark

"Guess who will be the first to accues Microsoft of fleecing end users ... yup, the very same Mac users who probably wouldn't buy a PC anyway and who call for one version of Windows now. "

While they might not buy a PC anyway, they might very well want to buy a copy of Vista to run on their beloved Macs which, I suspect, is why their arguments eventually drift to dropping the price of Full Package Product Vista Ultimate rather than what features should be in Home Basic versus Home Premium.

re: Windows Vista Service Pack 2 Beta

shark47 — Sat, 25 Oct 2008 17:56:41 GMT

Strangely, no one complains about having too many Office SKUs.

Anyway, since most people didn't bother to read Ed Bott's article, here's a summary of his argument. If MS decides to go with one Windows version for everyone, first of all, it would have features like MEdiac Center that businesses don't care for and features like BitLocker that the average Joe won't care. Let's assume that you can pick and choose features to add when you buy a new, say, Dell --even though that would add another level of complexity for consumers, which they probably won't appreciate-- there's another problem, Microsoft can't afford to charge OEMs just $20 for the install, so let's say they charge a flat $90 instead. Businesses will either end up paying less or won't be affected. Home users will pay more for a PC (because OS costs are transferred to the consumer) and so will small businesses that choose the cheapest versions of Windows. Guess who will be the first to accues Microsoft of fleecing end users ... yup, the very same Mac users who probably wouldn't buy a PC anyway and who call for one version of Windows now.

Three versions, Windows 7 Home, Windows 7 Business, and Windows 7 Ultimate are good enough. Maybe the Home Basic version should be renamed Windows 7 Core or something.

re: Windows Vista Service Pack 2 Beta

mikegalos@msn.com — Sat, 25 Oct 2008 17:35:21 GMT

Shark

No question that the Windows XP versions were MUCH more confusing than Windows Vista. There was good reason for simplifying the number of versions in Vista.

Compared with Vista's four retail versions you had the following with XP some of which were available at retail and some only through OEM. The (n), (k) and (nk) versions were the "take out a feature to make the regulators happy" versions so they really don't matter since nobody bought them.

Windows XP Home

Windows XP Home (n)

Windows XP Home (k)

Windows XP Home (kn)

Windows XP Professional

Windows XP Professional (n)

Windows XP Professional (k)

Windows XP Professional (kn)

Windows XP Starter Edition

Windows XP Media Center Edition

Windows XP Media Center Edition 2003

Windows XP Media Center Edition 2004

Windows XP Media Center Edition 2005

Windows XP Tablet PC Edition

Windows XP Tablet PC Edition 2005

Windows XP 64-bit Edition for Itanium systems, Version 2002

Windows XP 64-bit Editionfor Itanium systems, Version 2003

Windows XP Professional x64 Edition

re: Windows Vista Service Pack 2 Beta

shark47 — Sat, 25 Oct 2008 17:20:39 GMT

Doc, I think they could have done a better job with the naming, though. Windows Vista Home Basic could have been Windows Vista Base or something. Vista Home Premium could have been Vista Home. Vista Business and Vista Ultimate are fine.

Windows Vista Starter is not even available in the US. Windows Vista N versions aren't either. Vista Enterprise is not for the average Joe anyway.

See, when XP was introduced, XP Home was a true subset of XP Professional. LAter, Microsoft introduced the Tablet PC version and XP MCE. I think Tablet PC was based on Professional, while MCE was based on XP Home. So, technically, XP was a lot more confusing than Vista, especially towards the end of its lifecycle. With Vista they tried to simplify SKUs. Paul's right that some of the lines between versions were drawn arbitrarily.

I think Mike's right here, but of course, people refuse to listen to him. This is just another M$ fanboy talking according to them.

re: Windows Vista Service Pack 2 Beta

chuckb84 — Sat, 25 Oct 2008 17:19:26 GMT

Mike,

On Vista versions, however YOU choose to count, 11 were listed. You also ignored the point that Paul has also said that the number of versions (however you want to count them) is too many. It's confusing, and I don't understand why MS does it. I suspect it is to get people to pay more, but I really don't know. The strategy makes no sense to me.

On this, "In fact, if anything, I hold Apple to the level they deserve. For a time, they were the industry leaders in innovation. It's been a long time and I hold them to one of two behaviors: Start innovating and driving the industry forward as they used to in the 1980s or stop acting as though they're the same company that did Lisa, Macintosh and Laserwriter. I'd prefer the former but I'll sadly accept the latter. Right now, they're a mediocre has been that acts as though they're ready for their close up."

You ignore the iPhone, which is a transformative device. That's obvious, everyone in the world is rushing out copies as fast as they can. Your disclaimer "We're talking about computers in this thread. Not iPods or iPhones or mouse pads." In what sense is the iPhone NOT a computer? The fact that it is a "phone" is almost incidental.

Again, even PAUL has acknowledged the iPhone as a transformative device. I think you're even more a one man band than usual if you want to disregard the iPhone as evidence of Apple's innovation.

In the desktop/laptop/server area, I don't think anyone with sense will disagree that is a pretty mature area. Neither Apple or Microsoft are innovating there at the pace of the mid-1980s. But Apple has defined and owns the portable music biz, and is now redefining "phones" as general purpose portable computing devices. Those are both real innovations, now worth billions a year.

re: Windows Vista Service Pack 2 Beta

mikegalos@msn.com — Sat, 25 Oct 2008 16:56:52 GMT

chuckb

"First, on the 11 listed Vista versions. It's just crazy to have that many. "

And, in reality, there are only 4 retail versions of Vista. Not 11. Four.

Windows Vista Home Basic

Windows Vista Home Premium

Windows Vista Business

Windows Vista Ultimate

re: Windows Vista Service Pack 2 Beta

DRWAM — Sat, 25 Oct 2008 16:56:20 GMT

I think consumers are smart enough to pick a needed Vista version, so there are not too many. Also, what ever is pre-installed at their price point is what they will get any way, and probably not even care that there are several SKU's. For a business, the hardware and software will be scrutinized by a knowledgeable person who will fulfill the needs of the company and staff. I am reasonably sure that they won't get confused. Offering a less expensive version also helps consumer wallets [as well as giving 3 licenses when purchasing as they do with some versions of Office]. I personally have not heard of any one confused by the choices of Vista, although it's anecdotal.

re: Windows Vista Service Pack 2 Beta

mikegalos@msn.com — Sat, 25 Oct 2008 16:54:18 GMT

chuck

Actually, if you read my post, I said that calling you a clueless bozo was an example of an unfair characterization used to defame you. Quite clearly I was saying that it was NOT true. Which is my point.

And, note that in your post you never disagreed with my point. You don't need an "already widespred" stereotype to base defamation. You can create it out of nothing and people will believe it even with no existing knowledge or prejudice.

re: Windows Vista Service Pack 2 Beta

chuckb84 — Sat, 25 Oct 2008 16:45:49 GMT

Mike,

First, on the 11 listed Vista versions. It's just crazy to have that many. Even PAUL has said that.

Second, on this bitable

"Working with political groups I've seen examples of anti-Semitism in towns where nobody is Jewish and racism in towns so ethnically uniform you wonder if they'd freak out at a person with a good tan. Are you saying they're getting their bigotry based on an existing perception?"

You're getting pretty close to the "Nazi limit" of usenet discussions. See Godkins law: en.wikipedia.org/.../Godwins_law. Going so far down that road is a sure sign that you need to lighten up a bit.

Finally, on this part,

"As an example, how about if I spend say a million dollars paying people to say that you are a clueless bozo on every message board they can find? How much do you want to bet that by the third or fourth time they see a message about you they'll consider the first couple to be the "already widespread" stereotype. If you like, I'll have them say it as a joke about you being a clueless bozo and then defaming your character will be OK by your rules since it's comedy."

Feel free. I'm sure you'll find a couple of fellow travelers here who'll go along with the "clueless bozo" part :) . On some things, I definitely AM a clueless bozo, but I try to make no pretensions in those areas.

However, in spite of trying this gambit to get a sharp response from me, you know it's a phony argument, because what you will NOT find are dozens or hundreds of independent commentators who all separately and without collusion write that I'm a clueless bozo.

However, you will find that independent commentary about Vista. There are hundreds, possibly thousands of such references on the internet. You want to deny that reality and blame it all on Apple. That's nonsense.

In trying to avoid being a clueless bozo, let me make it clear that I don't know if the perception of Vista is correct or not. No idea. That the percpetion exists, is widespread and wasn't caused by Apple is obvious to everyone except you.

re: Windows Vista Service Pack 2 Beta

mikegalos@msn.com — Sat, 25 Oct 2008 16:42:58 GMT

Mum

We're talking about computers in this thread. Not iPods or iPhones or mouse pads.

Do you really think that Macintosh 2008 reflects the same company and innovation as Macintosh 1984 or Lisa or Laserwriter?

re: Windows Vista Service Pack 2 Beta

mikegalos@msn.com — Sat, 25 Oct 2008 16:38:32 GMT

subzero

"However, I do think it does need to be simplified to a Consumer, Business, and a Superset of both lines. 3 simple SKU's. You could go Home, Professional, Ultimate."

Which is why I really have a problem with people acting as though there were dozens of SKUs.

You suggest there be 3 SKUs. Let's name the Business one "Business" rather than "Professional" since that name might confuse people since XP Professional was a home SKU and not a business SKU.

That leave us with Home, Business and Ultimate as your ideal.

Right now at US Retail Microsoft has: Home (basic), Home (premium), Business and Ultimate.

That's 4 rather than 3. And the only difference between what has been shipped for over two years now and what you propose as the ideal is dropping Home Basic from the line.

That's it. One SKU dropped is the difference between what you say is ideal (and I'd tend to agree) and what you said was Microsoft going overboard and that you couldn't defend.

To be fair, there are other SKUs that come up in conversation that shouldn't even be an issue since they aren't something that a consumer should even care about. Let's look...

Windows Vista Starter - only sold in the developing world and not at retail

Windows Vista Enterprise - only sold through the direct sales channel as part of a corporate licensing agreement

Windows Vista "(n)" editions - only offered (and rarely sold) in the EU nations as part of anti-trust compliance

OEM editions - shouldn't be offered at retail to anyone but an actual system builder and identical in features to the equivalent retail versions.

re: Windows Vista Service Pack 2 Beta

Mum — Sat, 25 Oct 2008 16:16:47 GMT

"Right now, they're a mediocre has been that acts as though they're ready for their close up."

That's weird. Don't you really see anything innovative about iPhone? To me, iPhone represents what the word innovation means. The future of computing moving more and more into our pockets now for the first time really seems viable.

And since we're talking about words, let's make clear what innovation is: it's taking an existing idea or a technology and applying it in an original, successful way. iPhone, with all its flaws, really fits this bill - no new features, just new ways to make use of them.

re: Windows Vista Service Pack 2 Beta

DRWAM — Sat, 25 Oct 2008 15:57:13 GMT

Yep, I hear ya. Look at this:

www.smarthome.com/slcsolution66.html

If every home in America replaced just one incandescent light bulb with an ENERGY STAR qualified CFL, in one year it would save enough energy to light more than 3 million homes. That would prevent the release of greenhouse gas emissions equal to that of about 800,000 cars. Saving electricity reduces CO2 emissions, sulfur oxide and high-level nuclear waste.