And the first Microsoft iPhone app is .. Windows Live? Hotmail? Office? umm… Not quite

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re: And the first Microsoft iPhone app is .. Windows Live? Hotmail? Office? umm… Not quite

Master3 — Tue, 16 Dec 2008 00:45:34 GMT

This is seriously the most stupid back and forth I've ever seen completely UNRELATED to the topic.

WHAT THE H@LL IS WRONG WITH YOU PEOPLE?

You are all starting to sound like blithering idiots, trolls, and losers.

re: And the first Microsoft iPhone app is .. Windows Live? Hotmail? Office? umm… Not quite

shark47 — Tue, 16 Dec 2008 00:40:50 GMT

Nope. It would *probably* be hypocritical if Microsoft itself made those comments. I don't think Mike represents Microsoft. He doesn't have to add a disclaimer at the end of each one of his comments. Everytime someone criticizes Apple, someone here has to bring up Microsoft. I noticed panache and johnpapola doing that today. It would probably be fair if Mike was Microsoft's official spokesman or even an employee, maybe. But he isn't. He speaks for himself, not for the company.

re: And the first Microsoft iPhone app is .. Windows Live? Hotmail? Office? umm… Not quite

robertsjoe — Tue, 16 Dec 2008 00:23:14 GMT

@shark47: "Not necessary. It's irrelevant information and not useful in this context. Microsoft's past behavior doesn't justify Apple's current practice."

You're another one from the Mike School of Hypocrites? Of course it matters. Mike's on his high horse going on about Apple's supposed wrong doing, something he also likes to claim about non-lies in Apple ads which he thinks are, yet he never mentions that MS partakes in the same activities which he dribbles on about Apple doing?

Ever heard the saying "The pot calling the kettle black"?

Hypocrites.

re: And the first Microsoft iPhone app is .. Windows Live? Hotmail? Office? umm… Not quite

shark47 — Tue, 16 Dec 2008 00:04:36 GMT

"When you charge Apple with something like that, don't forget to mention that Microsoft has been charged and convicted of it. Remember to do that, okay?"

Not necessary. It's irrelevant information and not useful in this context. Microsoft's past behavior doesn't justify Apple's current practice.

re: And the first Microsoft iPhone app is .. Windows Live? Hotmail? Office? umm… Not quite

robertsjoe — Mon, 15 Dec 2008 23:29:30 GMT

@mikegalos: "Their competitors ARE complaining. Read any of the articles about Firefox and multitouch."

Read some stories about Novell, Netscape. Read about some of the dealing MS had with Intuit. Go read about being fair.

re: And the first Microsoft iPhone app is .. Windows Live? Hotmail? Office? umm… Not quite

robertsjoe — Mon, 15 Dec 2008 23:29:22 GMT

@mikegalos: "The subject was, and still is, Apple's anti-competitive use of Secret APIs to give their own Application developers an unfair advantage over their competitors."

Do you know what the word hypocrite means? Anti-competitive? Microsoft was charged for that. Remember? Convicted of that. When you charge Apple with something like that, don't forget to mention that Microsoft has been charged and convicted of it. Remember to do that, okay?

re: And the first Microsoft iPhone app is .. Windows Live? Hotmail? Office? umm… Not quite

robertsjoe — Mon, 15 Dec 2008 23:29:11 GMT

@mikegalos: "Apple is currently using Secret APIs in their operating system that gives their applications an advantage over all of their competitors."

Don't lie about Microsoft not using secret APIs. Read here: www.inlumineconsulting.com/.../nt.sekrits.html

One of the most respected devs in the world, when it comes to Windows internals and system APIs, Mark Russinovich, even says that there are hidden APIs. So come clean and stop spreading lies. Are you saying that he is also lying?

Some more goodies: "For example when Microsoft released Internet Information Server (IIS), it significantly outperformed Netscape Server on the NT Platform. Microsoft insisted that its developers had not had any additional acceess to information than had Netscape developers. Yet after careful review, Netscape developers were able to utilize previously undisclosed information about NT in their own products. Future releases of Netscape Server were competitive with IIS in subsequent testing."

Like I said, you don't become known as Evil for no good reason.

re: And the first Microsoft iPhone app is .. Windows Live? Hotmail? Office? umm… Not quite

robertsjoe — Mon, 15 Dec 2008 23:28:45 GMT

@mikegalos: Honest CEOs certainly don't reside at Microsoft. That's exactly the reason why Microsoft is known as Evil. Why they are convicted monopolists. Do you think they got that way and that reputation because they are honest? Nope.

You're a hypocrite talking about "secret APIs" when Microsoft has done the same thing.

Opening something to be a free for all and you end up with the dog's breakfast that is Windows and its ecosystem. You end up with a tarnished brand like Vista and Windows in general. End up blaming third parties for your mistakes, your wrong decisions over the years. You end up with terrible mobile operating systems like Windows Mobile. A horrible mistake trying to cram the same things you see in a desktop OS on a mobile device. It takes someone with balls to show someone that just copied, like Apple did for Microsoft, to show them to think outside the nerd square they reside in. Look at the horrors of Linux trying to get on the desktop? Apple even did that right. Took Unix and added the best OS UI in the world.

Microsoft is the new Xerox. Just a copier company.

re: And the first Microsoft iPhone app is .. Windows Live? Hotmail? Office? umm… Not quite

mikegalos@msn.com — Mon, 15 Dec 2008 23:11:36 GMT

johnpapola

The problem with saying that the developers are there anyway about the problems with the iPhone developer program is that you have no idea what developers aren't there.

Could it be that there are a huge percentage of developers who are staying away because of Apple's unreasonable restrictions and unfair practices? Maybe.

Could it be that there aren't a huge percentage of developers who are staying away because of Apple's unreasonable restrictions and unfair practices? Maybe.

Drawing a conclusion off of the data isn't possible becuase the actual data doesn't exist. There's certainly anecdotal evidence to back up either claim.

Now, is there a shortage of flashlight apps or tip calculators? Clearly not.

Is there a "killer app" that's good enough to drive people to the platform? Clearly not.

Would there be a "killer app" if Apple treated their developers as partners rather than parasites? Maybe. But nobody knows.

In the long run, though, treating your 3rd party developers well is what makes a platform successful once the novelty wears off.

re: And the first Microsoft iPhone app is .. Windows Live? Hotmail? Office? umm… Not quite

mikegalos@msn.com — Mon, 15 Dec 2008 23:03:20 GMT

Waethorn

But, it just works...

re: And the first Microsoft iPhone app is .. Windows Live? Hotmail? Office? umm… Not quite

johnpapola — Mon, 15 Dec 2008 22:30:46 GMT

@Mike,

You may be right about the distinction between phone and computer being less reasonable. But, Apple's power over the platform is beneficial for their brand in-so-far as they get to provide a filter. Requiring SDK apps alone also means that the developers can/must exclusively target the OSX Touch hardware and not dilute the experience with contingencies for other form factors.

Then there's the benefits of lock-in by getting users invested in software that isn't portable to other platforms (probably the main reason NOT to support flash, silverlight or java). That sure helped Windows establish and maintain dominance since there were no cross-platform dev environments back then.

We'll just have to see how the market reacts and how Apple adapts. So far the choice/openness argument hasn't amounted to very much outside of uber-nerdville. Users and developers are flocking to the platform, regardless of the limitations.

When you roll in the iPod Touch, I'm fairly certain that the "OSX Touch" will have outsold all WinMo handsets combine for the year. Notice the dominant position of the Touch on Amazon. There may already be more OSX Touch users active than desktop Mac OSX. That's pretty nuts.

re: And the first Microsoft iPhone app is .. Windows Live? Hotmail? Office? umm… Not quite

Waethorn — Mon, 15 Dec 2008 22:21:28 GMT

In other news:

Leo in one of his "DUH!" moments:

www.youtube.com/.../Z-3YVQjEMbU

Anyway, it's amusing.

re: And the first Microsoft iPhone app is .. Windows Live? Hotmail? Office? umm… Not quite

tayme — Mon, 15 Dec 2008 21:50:07 GMT

@mikegalos and szhm - I guess that I was thinking in simpler terms. I was saying htat a CEO, or the company that the CEO represents, is free to decide to sell its product/service in a closed fasion...as mikegalos suggested that he things Steve Jobs sees for the Macintosh. I may be wrong...I don't claim to know all about every subjust like a certain programmer/evangelist/farmer/bus driver/etc. seems to on this site daily. I was just making a comment.

--tayme

re: And the first Microsoft iPhone app is .. Windows Live? Hotmail? Office? umm… Not quite

panache1023 — Mon, 15 Dec 2008 20:45:14 GMT

Wae,

Can you please show me where "dear leader" said what you say he said?

Also..why do you just immediately start calling him "dear leader". It's like an illness for you.