Windows 7 builds 7137 and 7201

re: Windows 7 builds 7137 and 7201

Waethorn — Fri, 05 Jun 2009 15:11:16 GMT

"excessive featurism seems embedded in Microsoft"

There are many examples where minimalism through integration is one of Microsoft's strong points though.

re: Windows 7 builds 7137 and 7201

chuckb84 — Fri, 05 Jun 2009 14:55:31 GMT

Shark,

I'm really talking about perceptions. Microsoft could do something bold and it would put Apple on the defensive, something I think most here would like. Oddly, I'd like it to, because a robust competition would be a good thing.

subzero,

Yah, I think this discussion has been substantive and civil, certainly compared to the usual devolution that takes place. You've been reasonable and I said something about Apple's "obsessive minimalism", which is their corporate DNA issue, just as excessive featurism seems embedded in Microsoft. Among other things, some tension between those views is inevitable and could lead to improvements in both product lines.

re: Windows 7 builds 7137 and 7201

Lindy — Fri, 05 Jun 2009 14:52:07 GMT

@Sub "A June launch for Windows 7 is absolutely impractical for a number of reasons."

I agree. However it was Paul site where I first read of a possible June launch. Hence that is why I thought the "Big Announcement" was possibly the launch.

I have not been involved with Windows 7 enough to judge whether its close enough to launch yet.

Mike G, as you normally do, you cant answer my question. Thanks for being predictable.

re: Windows 7 builds 7137 and 7201

tayme — Fri, 05 Jun 2009 14:33:10 GMT

@shark - Of course there are many great scenarios for Windows outside the enterprise. I am just saying that its true advantage over OS X is in the enterprise. Other than the price of a Mac and the amount of malware targeting Windows because of its dominance, both are fairly equal for the basic home user. On the other hand, Unix, Linux, and zOS have major advantages in many areas in the enterprise. Not everything is as black and white as some like to make it out to be. Companies and consumers alike need to look at the cost/value of a system for their needs and wants. not every person or company will arrive at the same answer every time...and that is great. Some people here cannot accept that.

--tayme

re: Windows 7 builds 7137 and 7201

shark47 — Fri, 05 Jun 2009 14:21:28 GMT

@tayme:

I disagree. I think Windows there are a lot of scenarios where Windows is useful outside the enterprise:

Most people I have helped out don't seem to have too many problems with Windows becoming slow, or PCs crashing, or viruses.

re: Windows 7 builds 7137 and 7201

Waethorn — Fri, 05 Jun 2009 14:17:58 GMT

"It's funny that even the worst US Government is orders of magnitude better than the best Governments in many countries. Of course, the US is responsible for bringing some of these Governments into power."

Does the devil do his own dirty work, or does he get his evil minions to do it for him?

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re: Windows 7 builds 7137 and 7201

tayme — Fri, 05 Jun 2009 14:00:52 GMT

@sub - I agree with you...it is good to discuss the technical merits of various OSes. But I don't consider statements like the following "healthy discourse and debate". You decide who are the trolls in your mind. To me they are the ones that automatically dismiss the notion that there are no merits for on OS or the other...or for that matter, one company or the other. They tend to hijack nearly every thread on Paul's blog because they are either afraid to start their own blog or they have and it has failed. No names mentioned.

"Wow, Bobbyjo is a Limbaugh/Cheney faction Republican. Not exactly a surprise there."

"And a free pony for people named Lindy."

"Or a case of greshen formula and six pack of slim fast if your name is Galos?"

"You're a legend for spreading false premises and outright lies."

I'll admit that I have fallen into the arguments several times...but as you'll notice, I no longer favor Windows over OS X in every case like I did back in the Bonch days. Why - because I have tried OS X and see a great value in it for the basic home user that wants to read email, listen to and edit music, play and edit video, safely surf the web(as long as they aren't idiots), and not have to call me for support on a weekly basi9s because either they messed something up or thier PC just crashed, or it is slow, or whatever. In the Enterprise, Windows is great for a lot of things, so is Unix(Solaris, HPUX, AIX, etc) and some Linux distros. zOS or OS/390 also continues to run many large companies OLTP systems. I support all of those and more on a daily basis, so I think that I know a bit about their strengths and weaknesses in real world production.

--tayme

re: Windows 7 builds 7137 and 7201

subzerohitman721 — Fri, 05 Jun 2009 13:22:20 GMT

tayme,

Comparing and contrasting two operating systems that can technically run on the same platform and trying to determine which one is the best suited for your needs isn't "sycophantic drivel." It what we technology enthusiast do. Its fair and right to have a healthy discussion of Windows 7 vs OS-X "SnowLeopard." I think its kind of sad and disappointing that you've allowed the genuine trolls to effect you in such a way that any Windows vs OS-X discussion is rendered as pointless.

There are very obvious and technical merits to such a debate. From games, information, system performance, security, and many areas, this is an important debate for consumers and enthusiasts to make. Did I make fun of Apple in any of my commentary? No. I'm equally as harsh on Microsoft as I am to Apple. To compare, contrast, and analyse Windows 7 and OS-X "SnowLeopard", since we're about to have two brand new versions of this operating system makes logical and complete sense.

I would recommend that you think clearly about your statements and not dismiss healthy discourse and debate. None of us who are true technology enthusiasts, are going to shy away from these arguments. What would be helpful from you, is going after the extremists and the trolls on this forum. But to carte blanche dismiss any and all debate, isn't a very smart or intelligent addition to the discussion. IMO.

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re: Windows 7 builds 7137 and 7201

shark47 — Fri, 05 Jun 2009 13:04:33 GMT

"Can I nominate the US Government as being the worst?"

It's funny that even the worst US Government is orders of magnitude better than the best Governments in many countries. Of course, the US is responsible for bringing some of these Governments into power.

re: Windows 7 builds 7137 and 7201

tayme — Fri, 05 Jun 2009 12:49:33 GMT

Wow...I haven't missed anything here by being gone yesterday...same old trolls on both sides of the knuckleheaded "OS War" spewing thier sycophantic drivel in order to impress Balmer and Jobs...the only thing is that they are sitting back laughing at all of you....just like I am!

--tayme

re: Windows 7 builds 7137 and 7201

shark47 — Fri, 05 Jun 2009 12:49:07 GMT

"The thing that would just redefine the perception of Microsoft in the eyes of many would be a free, or very cheap deal, to upgrade Vista to Win7. VERY cheap if not free. "

That might have worked if there hadn't been two service packs to improve Vista compatibility and performance. The service packs were free, by the way.

It also gives the impression that Win 7 is nothing but a fix for Vista, which it isn't.

" Microsoft won't do it, anymore than they can get that the plethora of Win7 versions looks like a strategy of forced upgrades."

They aren't forcing anyone to upgrade. Windows Starter can't even be installed on hardware that supports the other versions, so there's no point upgrading those PCs. Most people will get Windows 7 Home Premium and will not upgrade to Professional or Ultimate.

re: Windows 7 builds 7137 and 7201

Dipsh t Admin — Fri, 05 Jun 2009 12:22:06 GMT

"Can I nominate the US Government as being the worst?"

Yes, yes you can. I feel dirty for agreeing with rj... Let me take a shower and rinse off the grime.

Of course, it isn't much different than any of the other governments around the world. Slow, bloated, costs too much, and boring.

re: Windows 7 builds 7137 and 7201

chuckb84 — Fri, 05 Jun 2009 12:17:31 GMT

subzero,

On marketing Win7, "I'm sure a lot of Mac users would like to play the latest PC games or take advantage of Windows specific software."

Yep. I run XP under VMWare for Dragon Naturally Speaking (now supplanted with Macspeech Dictate, which uses the same voice recognition) and for the Polar Precision Fitness software. Not interested in games, but their are still a few specialized vertical market categories where a PC, real or virtual, is useful.

However, as a marketing strategy, going for Mac switchers is silly; there aren't enough of them. And, no offense, but I think there are very few Mac users who are going to switch to Windows for any reason.

The thing that would just redefine the perception of Microsoft in the eyes of many would be a free, or very cheap deal, to upgrade Vista to Win7. VERY cheap if not free. Suddenly the greedy rapacious corporation would have much friendlier face.

The game here is not converting Mac users....that won't happen. The game is new purchases/upgraded hardware. Mac or Windows?

Despite all the flaws, Microsoft at least has an argument with the price issue. If they position WIn7 (at least implicitly) as a cheap fix for those who purchased Vista, it puts a lot of heat on Apple with the upcoming Snow Leopard. Microsoft could draw a legitimate distinction there and put Apple in an awkward spot.

However, I think this is all fantasy. Microsoft won't do it, anymore than they can get that the plethora of Win7 versions looks like a strategy of forced upgrades. Paul's own words, "Windows 7 Starter? That's How They Get You." And, the plan to force purchases with the entirely concocted phrase, "low cost small notebook PC'.

www.digitimes.com/.../a20090602PD221.html

Same old, same old. They're going for profit optimization via a contrived version system (Zune points, anyone?) and they're missing a golden opportunity to look like the good guys and make Apple look like the uncaring corporation.

It will probably just be a missed opportunity.